Anyway don’t show your support for ANET if you don’t like the direction they are going so they won’t make another WOW like game….
Yes this game is very much like WoW. I mean they both have swords and staffs. It must be a WoW clone.
Saying a game is like WoW doesn’t make a game like WoW. Just sayin’.
Ultimate defense….of EVERY WoW clone*….and they all failed.
Just sayin.
Oh, and losing 5 MILLION players is NOT successful.
The ONLY MMO that still gains players is EvE.
*except Rift, they pretty much advertised as WoW clone. Didnt help much either way.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
This is not just a game it’s an MMO. In an MMO you must work, do chores, strive, stand around bored for an hour waiting for Teq, buy gems, envy those with better luck than you, and above all you must grind. What does fun have to do with it?
Apparently you don’t understand the kind of game you are playing.
/sarcasm
I thought this game was advertised as the MMO that does away with all the standard MMO traditions? No?
Yes it was, in fact it became “fastes selling MMO of all times”*(first 9 months) based on exactly what they advertised. Too bad they did 180 2 months after launch.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Yup, it sure feels the same as /random facebook game.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Where did they ever say they would never add new armor tiers right from the start?
I followed news of GW2 pretty closely before it came out and I don’t remember them saying anywhere that what the game launched with as far as equipment tiers go would be what we’d have forever.
I think a lot of people assumed that would be the case because of GW1 but assumptions do not equate to broken promises.
They explained why they did what they did and it was 100% needed. All of a sudden we have use for the hundreds of thousands of low to mid level crafting materials that literally served no purpose other than leveling up crafting professions before. They also said they had no plans to add more.
I’m not seeing how it’s a problem if you’re actually interested in playing the game and aren’t impatient.
Do you know how to READ?
Well, READ……MY……SIG
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
So 30+ hours and around 100 runs in a dungeon wasn’t enough of an investment in a dungeon to get gear before? They want it to take longer and be more tedious?
…
Good thing I already farmed everything I needed from CoF.
Hmm…..
Quoting For Justice!!!
Yup, farmers paradise!
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
1. I will probably never have a legendary, now that you’ve nerfed karma. I toyed with the idea pre nerf, but imagine my surprise when I started getting karma vials from completing dailies a few days after I spent most of my karma on temple armor. I will not grind 2000+ events and/or dungeons. I left that other MMO precisely because of this type of treadmill/grind.
2. I will never have ascended trinkets. I’m sitting on 62 laurels, but I am loath to spend them because I have multiple characters and I never know what wonderful changes you will implement next. I don’t want to be caught in a situation like I was with karma points, where I spend most of laurels and then you implement some change that makes them more difficult to get or they become necessary to obtain even better items. In addition to this, I only do dailies if they correspond to whatever I’m doing that day. I don’t log in to do chores, ANet.
3. I will never have ascended weapons. That is, unless the required mats build up in my bags through daily activity and leveling crafting isn’t cost prohibitive. As it stands now, leveling that one crafting discipline is cost prohibitive for me.
4. I will never have ascended armor, for reasons stated in point 3.
5. And because of 1-4, I will never participate in WvW because being at a constant disadvantage when playing against other people isn’t fun.
I log in to have fun, ANet. Not to do daily chores, not to grind, not to chase more powerful, and required gear…I log in to have fun. When I bought your game, you led me to the impression that the best gear would be easy to get at level 80, so I could spend my time doing whatever I wanted. Looks like I was wrong.
Has your philosophy regarding the type of player you’d like to retain, changed as well?
It doesn’t seem like MMO’s fit you — try another style of game because <<O=grinding something ALWAYS, that’s half the fun for many.
Yes, this attitude is why MMOs excel and never lose players…..ROFL
You nailed EXACTLY whats WRONG with MMOs. And they ask themselves why it is so when answer is right in front of their noses.
Oh, and no, its NOT the players fault, its developers fault MMO as a genre loses players. Somehow they think that cloning WoW or making their game more like WoW will produce….something. You really start to wonder, after so many failed MMOs…where all stupidity comes from?
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Dont underestimate addictivness of farmville (pun intended)….for a short while.
Too bad that doesnt last.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I’m not twisting what Colin said, because we talked about the manifesto. Looking at Anet’s web page for Guild Wars 2, grind and vertical progression was barely mentioned at all. They talked about dynamic events, personal stories, and a living breathing world. That’s the main thing the game was marketed on.
If you can find 3 quotes over five years that say vertical progression….okay, you’ve found three quotes. So what? It’s three quotes over five years.
There were literally hundreds of hours talking about everything else. It’s people’s focus that make this the depth of the promise it was, not what was actually said.
By percentage, Anet talked about vertical progression very little.
No you are just making excuses, and stretching the truth to justify that excuse. As I said before, changing small things and backing out here and there is fine. But not when it goes against the core design philosophies you preached. It is if a game like WoW talked about Raiding and how important raiding is in their game and removed it a year after launch. Even if it didn’t take a lot of “percentage” of their time talking about it, it still is a major change for your core philosophy.
Regardless, it is idiotic to think importance is based on how long they talk about it. Talk about going the extra mile to defend this change.
I’m not going an extra mile to defend a change. I’m taking on people who say this is what the game was sold on. No. This may be what sold YOU on the game, but this was not what Anet PUSHED.
Again, I have a background in retail. I know what I push and what I don’t push. I know what Anet pushed. Lack of vertical progression wasn’kitten They pushed personal story. They pushed dynamic events. Those were what would have sold the game to most people.
There are a minority of people who even know what vertical progression is. Those are more likely to be people here on the forums. But the bulk of the population just sees something they think looks cool and buys it.
I’m not defending Anet adding vertical progression to the game. I’m calling out people who say this is the major thing Anet sold the game on.
Yes, this is what the game was sold on.
“Ignorance is bliss” – Vayne
Noone cares about your PR rofl, people know how to read.
People know how to read? lmao Yep. That’s why publishing companies are all doing so well and people skip quest text.
Language is all about nuance and studies show that a lot of nuance is lost on the average reader.
And there are quite a few people here who do care what I have to say. You’re not my target audience and never have been.
Of course im not your target audience.
I have brain and use it.
Seems too much for you though rofl
PR failure
READ…..MY…..SIG
I’ve read your sig many times. All is shows is that a dev stated something a long time ago and it’s since changed. That’s exactly what your sig says.
Strangely, some of us expect that from MMOs. Stuff changes all the time. I’m not sure why that would surprise an experienced MMOer like you.
Yup, i expect core philosophy to not change. All successful MMOs didnt change it.
All failed ones did.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I’m not twisting what Colin said, because we talked about the manifesto. Looking at Anet’s web page for Guild Wars 2, grind and vertical progression was barely mentioned at all. They talked about dynamic events, personal stories, and a living breathing world. That’s the main thing the game was marketed on.
If you can find 3 quotes over five years that say vertical progression….okay, you’ve found three quotes. So what? It’s three quotes over five years.
There were literally hundreds of hours talking about everything else. It’s people’s focus that make this the depth of the promise it was, not what was actually said.
By percentage, Anet talked about vertical progression very little.
No you are just making excuses, and stretching the truth to justify that excuse. As I said before, changing small things and backing out here and there is fine. But not when it goes against the core design philosophies you preached. It is if a game like WoW talked about Raiding and how important raiding is in their game and removed it a year after launch. Even if it didn’t take a lot of “percentage” of their time talking about it, it still is a major change for your core philosophy.
Regardless, it is idiotic to think importance is based on how long they talk about it. Talk about going the extra mile to defend this change.
I’m not going an extra mile to defend a change. I’m taking on people who say this is what the game was sold on. No. This may be what sold YOU on the game, but this was not what Anet PUSHED.
Again, I have a background in retail. I know what I push and what I don’t push. I know what Anet pushed. Lack of vertical progression wasn’kitten They pushed personal story. They pushed dynamic events. Those were what would have sold the game to most people.
There are a minority of people who even know what vertical progression is. Those are more likely to be people here on the forums. But the bulk of the population just sees something they think looks cool and buys it.
I’m not defending Anet adding vertical progression to the game. I’m calling out people who say this is the major thing Anet sold the game on.
Yes, this is what the game was sold on.
“Ignorance is bliss” – Vayne
Noone cares about your PR rofl, people know how to read.
People know how to read? lmao Yep. That’s why publishing companies are all doing so well and people skip quest text.
Language is all about nuance and studies show that a lot of nuance is lost on the average reader.
And there are quite a few people here who do care what I have to say. You’re not my target audience and never have been.
Of course im not your target audience.
I have brain and use it.
Seems too much for you though rofl
PR failure
READ…..MY…..SIG
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Yes, people need to realize that they need to stop logging if they want anything changed.
ANet measures success in concurrency numbers, so as long as you log in they dont care. You may write masterpiece and they still wouldnt care.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
~10-16% (estimated) increase in DPS, as a rough rule of thumb, using full (currently available) ascended gear. (Pretty much matches up with other estimates I’ve seen.)
Is this enough to matter? The answer is yes and no. It depends on the situation. 1 vs. 1 with evenly matched skill? Yes. In a giant zerg? No. So each person needs to answer this for themselves: how do you prefer to play?
You appear to be intentionally excluding the middle, which is a very strange and illogical way to argue.
In 1v1, 10-16% is a definite yes, I agree.
In 5v5 it would also definitely matter. In dungeons and Fractals it will definitely matter.
In zerg-based WvW and big events and super-easy stuff, obviously 10-16% is irrelevant, but so would 50% be, or even perhaps 100%.
So I don’t agree that it will be something you ask for yourself, at all. It will eventually come to you, whether you like it or not, unless you ONLY zerg-surf or do events/easy PvE.
Actually, I find your post to be the strange one. It’s like you’re trying to argue with someone using the same numbers he did. He merely pointed out the extremes, while you claim there’s a middle ground. Duh …
Intentionally “leaving out” parts of information points to some things.
Its a fact that it impacts WHOLE www.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Totally agree with the OP. The thing is they did promise something and delivered something else. I do think they did it to please the masses, however, doing so will alienate their core fans. And the gear progression is no where done, it is coming more often.
They need epic grind (Korean grinder) for eastern market, theyre pretty much done with west, GW2 will get treatment like Aion/Lineage 2.
Thats pretty much everything someone who decide to continue playing needs to know. I advise them to try those games to see what is it all about.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I’m new and judging by all the negative comments I’m seeing here about their new Ascended Weapons content this is basically the worst game ever? I can’t even use a Rare weapon yet but I’m getting there!
GW2 got “fastest selling MMO ever” on one philosophy, which they changed 2 months after launch to try to make GW2 more like WoW.
One of the things, one of the most important things – is in my sig.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
You know, this entire thread would never have existed had ArenaNet not introduced tier gear, and a grind to get it, however large or small. Why? Because long before, Mike O’Brien said grind should be about cosmetics, not stats, and so many, many people bought GW2 with that expectation.
I seem to recall an 11000+ post thread back in November full of people saying “don’t do it, people don’t want that, and you’ll be called a liar if you do.”
Yet here we have it.
Would it be too childish to say “we told you so”? Probably. I feel like doing it anyway, though.
Had “i told you so” moments with LOTRO/SWTOR.
I wish i havent had them though.
I still occasionally play those for short time, when i get bored, but thing is – i havent given them a dime since.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.
Unfortunately, that means some people agree with it…..
While the entire argument the OP makes brings up valid points and complaints about “the problem”, it must be stated that not everyone agrees there IS “a problem”. Ascended gear is an end game goal that is NOT necessary to play the game. It IS useful to play some aspects (Fractals), but the claim that players are FORCED to grind for this gear or that BiS gear is mandatory is ridiculous. Hailing that idea as absolute truth is the real problem here (just my opinion, but I’m not alone).
I don’t think it can be argued that Exotics are fairly easy to gear up with and I just don’t see the major issue with the highest tier gear being a tier of items that take some time and expense to obtain. I’m still baffled that some seem so surprised that Ascended items are somewhere between Exotic and Legendary Weapons in both time and money to obtain (from what I understood, exactly what we were told they would be).
Pretty much no gear besides basic one was ever required to play any MMO.
Whats exactly your point as i dont see it.
Umm what? lol
Yah, ill let you figure that one out, cyas in few days?
To progress in Rift I had to get higher gear to do pretty much anything when I played. The same was true with AoC when I played that and Lotro.
All the good, cool, interesting stuff was hidden behind gear checks.
You obviously dont read what is responded to. Suggest you do.
You were NOT forced to get BiS gear in Rift or AoC or LOTRO to “play teh game”.
Lazy people, why do they respond like they wanted to quote someone else?
And not to mention that all those games had abysmal retention rate and gone F2P because they couldnt sustain any decent playerbase.
GW2 became “fastest selling MMO” * (in first 9 months) BECAUSE of their pre launch selling points. Keep THAT in mind next time you respond.
I’m not lazy. I can to ALL the content except for the highest level in fractals in Guild Wars 2. And I can see everything in the fractals without doing the highest levels, without getting anything above rares.
This is different from other games where such things aren’t true. I’m sure most people knew what I was talking about.
I pretty sure they dont since pretty much all other MMOs are same crap.
AGAIN, NOBODY CARES WHAT WAS 5-10 YEARS AGO.
hope it sticks this time. though i doubt it.
Except that my experienced with Rift were two years ago, not five to ten. And you can’t discuss a genre without going back at least a couple of years.
And? You have “experience” with 1 other game. That also had to go F2P to stay afloat.
Do you know how many are out there?
Ignorance is bliss.
I’ve played Aion, Rift, Lotro, WoW, Guild Wars 1, Perfect World, DDO, TSW and a few others. But since this is a Guild Wars 2 forum, I seldom refer to them here. Not talking about other games on another game’s forum is a type of etiquette that’s apparently not everyone follows.
And when you do its all missinformation. Good point.
I told you at least DOZEN of times to inform yourself about it, and as usual, you just IGNORE everything and continue to post missinformation.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I think we now reached the schoolyard stage of “no – YOU are!”. Time for a thread closure :P
Sometimes discussing stuff with children requires going down to their level. They just cannot comprehend some stuff. You can explain and explain, but theyll just do this empty stare….with an occasional blink ;P
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.
Unfortunately, that means some people agree with it…..
While the entire argument the OP makes brings up valid points and complaints about “the problem”, it must be stated that not everyone agrees there IS “a problem”. Ascended gear is an end game goal that is NOT necessary to play the game. It IS useful to play some aspects (Fractals), but the claim that players are FORCED to grind for this gear or that BiS gear is mandatory is ridiculous. Hailing that idea as absolute truth is the real problem here (just my opinion, but I’m not alone).
I don’t think it can be argued that Exotics are fairly easy to gear up with and I just don’t see the major issue with the highest tier gear being a tier of items that take some time and expense to obtain. I’m still baffled that some seem so surprised that Ascended items are somewhere between Exotic and Legendary Weapons in both time and money to obtain (from what I understood, exactly what we were told they would be).
Pretty much no gear besides basic one was ever required to play any MMO.
Whats exactly your point as i dont see it.
Umm what? lol
Yah, ill let you figure that one out, cyas in few days?
To progress in Rift I had to get higher gear to do pretty much anything when I played. The same was true with AoC when I played that and Lotro.
All the good, cool, interesting stuff was hidden behind gear checks.
You obviously dont read what is responded to. Suggest you do.
You were NOT forced to get BiS gear in Rift or AoC or LOTRO to “play teh game”.
Lazy people, why do they respond like they wanted to quote someone else?
And not to mention that all those games had abysmal retention rate and gone F2P because they couldnt sustain any decent playerbase.
GW2 became “fastest selling MMO” * (in first 9 months) BECAUSE of their pre launch selling points. Keep THAT in mind next time you respond.
I’m not lazy. I can to ALL the content except for the highest level in fractals in Guild Wars 2. And I can see everything in the fractals without doing the highest levels, without getting anything above rares.
This is different from other games where such things aren’t true. I’m sure most people knew what I was talking about.
I pretty sure they dont since pretty much all other MMOs are same crap.
AGAIN, NOBODY CARES WHAT WAS 5-10 YEARS AGO.
hope it sticks this time. though i doubt it.
Except that my experienced with Rift were two years ago, not five to ten. And you can’t discuss a genre without going back at least a couple of years.
And? You have “experience” with 1 other game. That also had to go F2P to stay afloat.
Do you know how many are out there?
Ignorance is bliss.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.
Unfortunately, that means some people agree with it…..
While the entire argument the OP makes brings up valid points and complaints about “the problem”, it must be stated that not everyone agrees there IS “a problem”. Ascended gear is an end game goal that is NOT necessary to play the game. It IS useful to play some aspects (Fractals), but the claim that players are FORCED to grind for this gear or that BiS gear is mandatory is ridiculous. Hailing that idea as absolute truth is the real problem here (just my opinion, but I’m not alone).
I don’t think it can be argued that Exotics are fairly easy to gear up with and I just don’t see the major issue with the highest tier gear being a tier of items that take some time and expense to obtain. I’m still baffled that some seem so surprised that Ascended items are somewhere between Exotic and Legendary Weapons in both time and money to obtain (from what I understood, exactly what we were told they would be).
Pretty much no gear besides basic one was ever required to play any MMO.
Whats exactly your point as i dont see it.
Umm what? lol
Yah, ill let you figure that one out, cyas in few days?
To progress in Rift I had to get higher gear to do pretty much anything when I played. The same was true with AoC when I played that and Lotro.
All the good, cool, interesting stuff was hidden behind gear checks.
You obviously dont read what is responded to. Suggest you do.
You were NOT forced to get BiS gear in Rift or AoC or LOTRO to “play teh game”.
Lazy people, why do they respond like they wanted to quote someone else?
And not to mention that all those games had abysmal retention rate and gone F2P because they couldnt sustain any decent playerbase.
GW2 became “fastest selling MMO” * (in first 9 months) BECAUSE of their pre launch selling points. Keep THAT in mind next time you respond.
I’m not lazy. I can to ALL the content except for the highest level in fractals in Guild Wars 2. And I can see everything in the fractals without doing the highest levels, without getting anything above rares.
This is different from other games where such things aren’t true. I’m sure most people knew what I was talking about.
I pretty sure they dont since pretty much all other MMOs are same crap.
AGAIN, NOBODY CARES WHAT WAS 5-10 YEARS AGO.
hope it sticks this time. though i doubt it.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
You’ve found a couple of quotes that Anet changed. Anet literally said hundreds and hundreds of things and by percentage, far more than 90% of them are true.
Nobody complains when you tell the truth. That’s almost a tautology. It’s also pretty universal, though, that if you tell one lie, forevermore you’re a liar.
If I told you the truth about everything, except one thing that mattered a great deal to you, would it be ok because 90% of everything else I said was true? I doubt it. And if it is Ok, I’ve got some swampland in Florida for sale…
I have a few bridges…excellent state
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Something that makes a bit more sense would be ideal
I think what Colin said did make sense. People need stuff to work for…you may not..I may not, but I suspect we’re not typical.
There was already a lot to “work for”
And they could have picked crapload of better options of thibgs to “work for” instead of gear treadmill with all its problems that even WoW hasnt managed to solve in 8 years.
A single tier of gear does not a treadmill make.
No, constant adding new gear to grind/upping power curve does. Duh.
No point play this game that fails to promise,lets just play gtaV and leave this game to rot
Ye, already playing something else. Waiting for ESO/EXNext, whenever those arrive.
I can’t wait to drink your tears when those games come out and disappoint you.
And why would those dissapoint me?
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Something that makes a bit more sense would be ideal
I think what Colin said did make sense. People need stuff to work for…you may not..I may not, but I suspect we’re not typical.
There was already a lot to “work for”
And they could have picked crapload of better options of thibgs to “work for” instead of gear treadmill with all its problems that even WoW hasnt managed to solve in 8 years.
A single tier of gear does not a treadmill make.
No, constant adding new gear to grind/upping power curve does. Duh.
No point play this game that fails to promise,lets just play gtaV and leave this game to rot
Ye, already playing something else. Waiting for ESO/EXNext, whenever those arrive.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Something that makes a bit more sense would be ideal
I think what Colin said did make sense. People need stuff to work for…you may not..I may not, but I suspect we’re not typical.
There was already a lot to “work for”
And they could have picked crapload of better options of thibgs to “work for” instead of gear treadmill with all its problems that even WoW hasnt managed to solve in 8 years.
A single tier of gear does not a treadmill make.
No, constant adding new gear to grind/upping power curve does. Duh.
How is it done is IRRELEVANT, and you have been explained that over HUNDRED times by now, but i guess, as i said ti many times before, ignorance is bliss for you.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.
Unfortunately, that means some people agree with it…..
While the entire argument the OP makes brings up valid points and complaints about “the problem”, it must be stated that not everyone agrees there IS “a problem”. Ascended gear is an end game goal that is NOT necessary to play the game. It IS useful to play some aspects (Fractals), but the claim that players are FORCED to grind for this gear or that BiS gear is mandatory is ridiculous. Hailing that idea as absolute truth is the real problem here (just my opinion, but I’m not alone).
I don’t think it can be argued that Exotics are fairly easy to gear up with and I just don’t see the major issue with the highest tier gear being a tier of items that take some time and expense to obtain. I’m still baffled that some seem so surprised that Ascended items are somewhere between Exotic and Legendary Weapons in both time and money to obtain (from what I understood, exactly what we were told they would be).
Pretty much no gear besides basic one was ever required to play any MMO.
Whats exactly your point as i dont see it.
Umm what? lol
Yah, ill let you figure that one out, cyas in few days?
To progress in Rift I had to get higher gear to do pretty much anything when I played. The same was true with AoC when I played that and Lotro.
All the good, cool, interesting stuff was hidden behind gear checks.
You obviously dont read what is responded to. Suggest you do.
You were NOT forced to get BiS gear in Rift or AoC or LOTRO to “play teh game”.
Lazy people, why do they respond like they wanted to quote someone else?
And not to mention that all those games had abysmal retention rate and gone F2P because they couldnt sustain any decent playerbase.
GW2 became “fastest selling MMO” * (in first 9 months) BECAUSE of their pre launch selling points. Keep THAT in mind next time you respond.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
~10-16% (estimated) increase in DPS, as a rough rule of thumb, using full (currently available) ascended gear. (Pretty much matches up with other estimates I’ve seen.)
Is this enough to matter? The answer is yes and no. It depends on the situation. 1 vs. 1 with evenly matched skill? Yes. In a giant zerg? No. So each person needs to answer this for themselves: how do you prefer to play?
The difference will only get bigger….and bigger….and bigger….
Enlighten us when it “will be enough to matter”? 25%? 30%? 50%? And it will get there…very soon.
10-16% is already huge.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.
Unfortunately, that means some people agree with it…..
While the entire argument the OP makes brings up valid points and complaints about “the problem”, it must be stated that not everyone agrees there IS “a problem”. Ascended gear is an end game goal that is NOT necessary to play the game. It IS useful to play some aspects (Fractals), but the claim that players are FORCED to grind for this gear or that BiS gear is mandatory is ridiculous. Hailing that idea as absolute truth is the real problem here (just my opinion, but I’m not alone).
I don’t think it can be argued that Exotics are fairly easy to gear up with and I just don’t see the major issue with the highest tier gear being a tier of items that take some time and expense to obtain. I’m still baffled that some seem so surprised that Ascended items are somewhere between Exotic and Legendary Weapons in both time and money to obtain (from what I understood, exactly what we were told they would be).
Pretty much no gear besides basic one was ever required to play any MMO.
Whats exactly your point as i dont see it.
Umm what? lol
Yah, ill let you figure that one out, cyas in few days?
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Ascended will be the only tier added. Its not turning into a gear treadmill.
They said exotic’s were to easy to get they wanted it to take longer and they wanted to satisfy the part of the gaming community that wanted some progression (nothing wrong with that).
Get over it and move on its coming. These VERY same discussions happened with rings, accessories and the amulet. Did they stop there? NO, they will continue forward and introduce the armor.
You can quit if you want it is a game after all. But someone will replace you thats the beauty of mmo’s with no sub people come and go more often than you think.
By the way game is selling….dont think anyone will replace anyone.
No they didnt stop, and they wont ever stop adding to the gear treadmill.
Enjoy your tredmill, i sure am not feeling like being hamester again.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.
Unfortunately, that means some people agree with it…..
While the entire argument the OP makes brings up valid points and complaints about “the problem”, it must be stated that not everyone agrees there IS “a problem”. Ascended gear is an end game goal that is NOT necessary to play the game. It IS useful to play some aspects (Fractals), but the claim that players are FORCED to grind for this gear or that BiS gear is mandatory is ridiculous. Hailing that idea as absolute truth is the real problem here (just my opinion, but I’m not alone).
I don’t think it can be argued that Exotics are fairly easy to gear up with and I just don’t see the major issue with the highest tier gear being a tier of items that take some time and expense to obtain. I’m still baffled that some seem so surprised that Ascended items are somewhere between Exotic and Legendary Weapons in both time and money to obtain (from what I understood, exactly what we were told they would be).
Pretty much no gear besides basic one was ever required to play any MMO.
Whats exactly your point as i dont see it.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I hope ANet does something to address the situation because something needs to be done.
Yah, sad day for a game that claimed is revolutionary. Right now its devolutionary, returning to “dem ol’ ways” like pretty much any other MMO around.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Something that makes a bit more sense would be ideal
I think what Colin said did make sense. People need stuff to work for…you may not..I may not, but I suspect we’re not typical.
There was already a lot to “work for”
And they could have picked crapload of better options of thibgs to “work for” instead of gear treadmill with all its problems that even WoW hasnt managed to solve in 8 years.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Thanks for the clarification. There wasn’t anything wrong with your percentage, I was just stating it because I tend to find easier to see how much I would gain.
I agree the difference would be lower on auto attacks, though these gains as a burst/spike damage don’t seem trivial at all, if I’m reading it right.
It is not trivial. More so now than it will be in my opinion. Without the extra base armor from the Ascended Armor the extra weapon damage is kind of outrageous. If you think you were getting burst down before wait till you get hit with a Thief or Warrior in all Ascended gear.
This is the main reason I have stopped playing the game. There was no need for a new tier of gear (more so over when you think about how they sold the game in the first place).
Even when Ascended armor comes out, the base armor will not scale as well as the damage does. This is the reason why Warriors are not as good as bunkers as Guardians. The high health/armor does no good on these extreme damage builds. The only reason why bunkers are a thing are due to the excessive boons in this game (like the guardian). High base numbers mean squat when you can pop out a boon that does more than 2800 armor.
All in all, they advertised/sold the game the way it should have been made then doubled back on what they said/developed.
They sold the game as: Powerful short term boons/conditions, skill dependent fights, only progression is visual progression after obtaining exotics which are easy to obtain at 80.
They currently have 0 of those in the game at the moment. Boons/conditions last entirely to long and are far to accessible. There is no skill involved when you can constantly spam skills and dodges because you literally never run out of them on 6 of the 8 classes. There is visual progression but it is tied to the stat progression that they sworn up and down for 2 years would never be in the game.
Anywho, that is my rant for tonight.
It is trivial to people who cannot deal with 1st grade math:
adding
substracting
multiplying
dividing
Unfortunately it seems most of people who post here.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Are you kidding? There are players everywhere I go in this game.
Just this evening:
WvW
Shadow Behemoth
Shatterer
Well, that’s the point isn’kitten All the players are funneled into a small parts of the world. This gives an ilusion of a big population in those places, but leaves other places empty. Try to visit Snowden Drifts someday, for example.
There will never be players spread across the land like so much peanut butter, not in this game, not in any other.
Whether through perceived or real differences in both difficulty and ease of access,
players will gravitate to the most efficient spots.
For instance, if every single mob in the game dropped the same level of loot, people would just walk outside Lion’s Arch and farm Fireflys in Gendarren Fields. If there is one more hill to go around or one more fence to hop, players will take the shorter, easier route.
Conversely, if there is a huge, screaming, gloriously evil boss shooting up from the swamp or a screeching dragon swooping down on a hillside, everyone in the area will converge to see the show, play with the other players and get a chance at some fat lootz. This is FUN. For some reason you think this is a bad thing, that players should stay spread out and not congregate at these big showy events. It’s as if you don’t understand the point of the game.
Just because there isn’t some player standing by some lonely tree in Timberline Falls waiting for you to come along and play with them doesn’t mean the game has an issue. There are millions of people playing this game, you can choose to play with them if you like, run with a buddy or two or join a guild.
Uh-huh
And thats how mediocrity is born. Coupled with bad design.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
You go to the mall. Crowded.
You go to the beach on a holiday. Crowded.
You go to the beach at night. Empty.
You go to the middle of the north pole. Empty.
You go to wall street. Crowded.
You go to the forest at night. Empty.
You, going to a lvl 20-75 zone, is like going to the north pole.
You, being in LA or lvl80 zone, is like going to wall street.
You shall find solitude anywhere wherever solitude is meant to be.
Yes, completely agreed, going to lvl 20-75 zones is exactly like going to north pole.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
no defender said something like:
it was awesome to get it, all that chain quests to do in order to get the materials, all those nice instance stories to go through and so much nice new mechanic to try in order to finish the quests…
So true.
Yup, they all know it sucks balls, ill have fun when they realize they need 10-20 more of those.
And then armors, and then infusions, and then runes, and then some more infusions….im already stocking up on popcorns
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
So much facepalm from this thread.
If you think getting 180 iron ingots and his buddies is grind you’re wrong in the head.
You make ascended with 180 iron ingots? really?
Talking about wrong in the head….rofl
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
So basically, we have to keep ourselves alive and work as a team to get through dungeons. What’s wrong with that?
Work as a team? Are we playing the same (PvE) game. My teams seem to work like this.
Get in group
No need to speak to anyone unless someone doesn’t know what to do
Wait for cut scenes.
Skip what needs to be skipped
Kill what needs to be killed.
Type in /s “P2 P3?” or “Ty”
Repeat.
There is no teamwork. Those player may as well be DPS bots or NPCs. Nothing I can do will save them nothing they can do will save me. And we are all better off DPSing our faces off and just avoiding damage in the first place.
So its the same as any other MMO where people repeat same content ad nauseum, just WITHOUT hour(s) of waiting around for “proper must have” group setup (tank+heal+DPS)
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Developers want players to explore strange new worlds. Unfortunately; after everyone’s done it, all the real-estate becomes a ghost town.
It is a known issue in many MMOs and many of those MMOs failed. WoW realized how big of an issue this is, and actually solved this issue over a year ago, with cross realms and now with connected realms the issue is solved. Log into any WoW server even dead ones and make a new character, you will see players everywhere from 1 to 90. They realized the issue and fixed it.
This is a bigger issue in GW2 because of how the game is designed. Leveling/Dynamic events are significantly better with players, and really boring alone. All MMOs lose players all the time, the problem is if new players buy the game and start playing and see a dead world they will quit. So you won’t be bringing in new players, while players are constantly quitting.
It is a serious problem, and shouldn’t be ignored or put aside.
What WoW did didnt solve anything, as with almost everything with WoW they put a band-aid on it.
Rushing through the area as fast as you can just to move on as fast as you can….and pretty much never come back….thats the problem.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
There’s one way I could see something like that being done, without kittening off any Legendary-user:
Whereas Legendaries have the unlimited stat-swap, one could – in theory – allow for one “alternate” stat set to be added. For example, say I started with a Celestial set, I could then work towards – and unlock – the ability to swap that OOC with Rabid.
This way, the Legendary-as-Ultimate EQ concept is still preserved, but there’s a bit of leeway with the (oft-argued) idea that Ascended EQ limits build diversity. You would also have to be very sure of what secondary combo you’d unlock … cause I can’t see an ability like that, if extant, being more than a “one-off” for each Ascended item or weapon.
You cant see it huh?
Well til sep. 3. legendaries were what they were supposed to be – very expensive skin.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I have now watched MMO after MMO after MMO doing exact same mistakes with exact same results for 10+ years now.
I must admit, GW2 was most promising to break the circle, but nope, they even insured their comeback to the circle by turning 180.
I guess some things need to be learned very slowly and very painfully. Well, at least there are few promising titles ahead and Blizzard is back to drawing board with Titan.
But i hope that they learn it in my lifetime lol, but by the speed they learn….
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Never played WoW because it was so grindy and the lack of grind was what lured me to the GW franchise from the start. Unfortunately GW2 has turned in to just another run of the mill grind fest. There is nothing special anymore.
The WoW players have gotten their wish and GW2 is turning in to another clone with nothing to make it stand out except no monthly fee. I have no wish to make a legendary as they are all ugly as sin, and the requirements for ascended do not offset the benefits of having one. I play every day, but I really don’t know why, guess I am just glutton for punishment.
and having to have the right gear to get into those raids.
Nah-uh.
WoW is currently implementing 4th raid mode. Intended for family and friends, thats a bit more difficult than LFR.
Get in touch with the times Vayne. Spreading missinformation is bad for you.
Nobody cares about 5-10 years ago.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
“Unfortunately, the QQers are right on this game. It did fall over and die and then an Anet employ came, hit it with a sledge-hammer and then kicked it off the empire state building.”
Oh, the miracles of implementing carrots and farms.
Thats what indulging a conditioning does
Push that lever HARDER!
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Things have changed quite a bit. You might want to double check what you talk about.
Gear tradmill aint stopping, not even for you.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
It’s just another broken promise of ‘innovation’ from Arena Net.
This game is grindier than the oldest effin’ Korean MMOs.
And the players are too kitten blind to see it.
Or players HAVE PLAYED those Korean MMOs and see this as nothing compared to those.
I guess what I’m seeing is that people think of gear grind as a relative thing. It’s better in some games, worse in other.
I appear to be in the tiny minority: I think that any gear grind is unacceptable.
I believe that interesting games are about content, skill, thinking, and teamwork; time spent there is quality, and of its own nature encourages more time spent.
Likewise, uninteresting games don’t engage the brain or imagination: they include gear, grind, poor storytelling, limited skills, limited encounters where teamwork makes a marginal, if any difference. Time spent there is driven by the need to acquire, is independent of skill and teamwork, and is often just mindlessly repetitive.
Which do you think best describes Guild Wars 2?
Have you played Silkroad? Beautifull game and the first 10 lvls were nice but after i had to grind to lvl 12 killing only mobs(not ordinary mobs but elite ones that had a random spawn). After that i had quests that filled my exp bar to 50% and the rest was grind again. So after playing that(i got to lvl 16) i just cant see the complains about grinding in this game. Your grind is only if you want the best(stat wise) items in the game to the same things other people are doing but faster. You’re not forced out of content(except high lvl fractals) if you don’t have an item.
WTF where the grind is matters?
Oh yes, it doesnt.
And just a fact that you compared getting one weapon to Silkroad is pretty amusing.
Try L2/Aion. Then come back to compare notes. ooops, there goes NCSoft again.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Let’s pretent that the 400k concurrency number is from launch…well so what? Are you saying you can name an MMO where the bulk of the population doesn’t play less over time? Do you think ANY MMO has more people a year after launch than on launch day concurrently?
I’m not going to get into the middle of this cat fight but actually if you would recall, Warcraft actually gained subscribers (paying mind you) over the years. It increased year over year and only after cata and the 10 million mark has it subsided. Most would consider its current population of 6 million a success yet here we are talking about 400K active maybe at best and 3.5 million copies sold.
Look, not going to pee in the wind here but I do find it rather interesting that people ask “do you still play that game” (e.g. GW2). I really don’t know how it fits in the public space but for me, it is only really WvW that I care about and it is pretty much dead in regards to return on investment (playing time mind you).
Anyway – Figured I’d throw that out that at least one MMO grew. The others while good failed because they tried to measure success like the two ton heavy thing…
EvE has been growing for 10 years now, if we look at growth EvE is most successful MMO.
If we look at post WoW MMOs, all had very good sales but retention (including GW2) was abbysmal. GW2 sales has pretty much extremly slow now which means very low new player influx. At one year point WoW was still hapilly growing. Rapidly.
Yes, GW2 is “fastest selling MMO of all times” and it earned that title on specific philospohy and selling points which, as we all know, turned 180 2 months after launch.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
The now infamous quote about expecting people to have best-in-slot gear upon reaching level 80.
The now infamous quote about how he didn’t expect people to get to exotics so fast, so Ascended gear must be added.
Don’t expect another tier for a long while.
Do you really trust him at this point?
Sure I trust him. Just like anyone else who said something years ago, and then the situation changed. In your life, you’ve never said something and two years later had to change it?
People are disingenuous. Oh, he’s a dev. He needs to be proficient in crystal ball to know what will happen.
That’s not the way the world works.
Yeah lets just get all game developers to make false statements about their game before release so people will buy the game anyway despite them not wanting it, then make up some BS so they can cover it up. Is that what you’re trying to say? God, you’re so ignorant.
Okay that’s another story. I believe when those statements were made, that was the intention. People are complaining about what Anet is saying NOW, about what Anet was saying then. These are two completely different issues.
Do you have any evidence that when Anet said that stuff they didn’t mean it?
Whether they meant it at the time or not is irrelevant — but let’s assume they did. I would prefer to believe that than that they were deliberately deceptive. Once you allow the assumption they meant it, what is relevant is that they changed their minds for whatever reasons. What is also relevant is that they want us to believe they intended to make exotics harder to get before launch. However, they’re telling us that a year after launch. That makes them look deliberately deceptive — whether they really were or not.
You seem intent on making excuses for ANet management. You’re saying that gear probably was not a major issue in their minds. You want us to believe that it was an aside they threw in while talking about more substantive issues. You want us to accept your assertion that they were very casual in planning what to say to sell their product to the public.
I can believe they changed their minds. I can believe they are trying to save face over the whole Ascended gear mess. I can believe they are accepting the collateral damage to their reputation that the recent statements have made in the eyes of some fans for what they believe would be worse damage to their reputation if they admitted that Ascended was a reaction to keep the game’s revenue from falling to unacceptable levels. I cannot believe that ANet was as heedless and thoughtless, as casual about how they were marketing their game as you want us to believe.
You want us to believe that ANet is a big business, and that big businesses engage in spin/damage control. You’re right, they do. Big businesses also carefully plan how to market their product. You might want to consider that the next time you are composing one of your “apologetics” posts.
Anet said some stuff.
NCSoft said you better do this.
Anet did it.
Not hard to understand is it? Seems to be.
Noone really cares about their intercoorporate relations, nor anyone should care, for all intents and purposes they are one and the same.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Just because you have a bunch of characters, does not constitute an excuse to complain about drop rates.
You are right. The fact that unless i am going to farm hard i will be getting an ascended weapon once every 2-3 months however is.
The drop rate is horrible. Me having 8 level 80 characters that i actually play doesn’t make the problem any worse, but it does make it significantly more noticeable.
Once you take away the unrealistic expectation of being given everything immediately, you will find more enjoyment in the adventure.
What adventure? Surely you don’t mean gear grind, do you?
Yup, parking your alts at JPs and mindless champion trains are now….adventure…i have more adventure in taking trash out every few days ;P
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
makes it easier to outfit alts without time gating (long as you have the gold).
No wai!
As long as you have gold you can buy legendary weapon.
And how do we get gold and skip all these…inconveniences….as some call them?
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Grind? Aion is a grind or any other Asia Pac designed or developed game.
In GW2 it is merely an INCONVENIENCE…
Oooh, but theyre not even close to done yet. These are JUST weapons, they still have armors/runes/sigils/infusions(16/set).
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
We’re not talking about being level 5 and leveling to 80. We’re talking about the role of ascended gear in WvW and how it deviates from the developers’ previous statements on the matter.
Then you completely missed the point of my comparison. I was pointing out that, as a measure of becoming effective in WvW, you’re already pretty much there simply by being 80 with exotic gear. If you don’t PvE or craft (which some people apparently think they should never be “forced” to do), the time and effort spent getting to the level cap and gearing yourself with exotics is going to be considerable. Not only that, you will be killed many times by players through no fault of your own, simply because they are stronger than you.
What you are doing here is arbitrarily applying the “fair game” standard. If you want an even playing field in WvW, you should also be arguing for the elimination of uplevels, which would—ironically—actually emphasize the role of “forced” PvE in terms of end WvW effectiveness.
No, I’m not. It was understood, from the beginning, that to be fully effective in WvW you had to be 80 in exotics and that was it. If you entered at a level lower than 80 you were at a disadvantage but you were able to actually level while doing WvW. This ascended grind kitten entirely contrary to what was originally stated which is why people are so annoyed. I would’ve stuck with another game if I wanted to grind for gear.
Oh, but at launch the selling point of the whole game (not just www) was totally different than today, as you can read in my sig.
ANet catering to WoW kiddies….no thanks I have WoW (or any other failed WoW clone that are all F2P btw) for that if i get teh cravings
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
