Guild Wars 2

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Puck.9612:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Puck.9612:

I’m enjoying T3.
Mags ratio is
Kills: 19,883
Deaths: 8,760
Ratio: 2.27

To be fair, how could it be any different in the context? I mean, ofc the overwhelmingly superior force will kill a lot more and easier than it is killed.

Overwhelming superior force depends on the time of day. I get off work about 9 am est and we normally have the outnumbered buff up yet we’re still bag farming the hell out of everyone we run across.

The forum mods wont let me say what I would like to say but I’ll simply add that the statistics you use above are not just a reflection of your personnal skirmishes. It reflect the entire match-up.

No kitten. If it was my personal ratio for this match the kill/death ratio would be much better. I think that’s true for most roamers.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Puck.9612:

I’m enjoying T3.
Mags ratio is
Kills: 19,883
Deaths: 8,760
Ratio: 2.27

To be fair, how could it be any different in the context? I mean, ofc the overwhelmingly superior force will kill a lot more and easier than it is killed.

Overwhelming superior force depends on the time of day. I get off work about 9 am est and we normally have the outnumbered buff up yet we’re still bag farming the hell out of everyone we run across.

Ricky.4706:

Puck.9612:

I’m enjoying T3.
Mags ratio is
Kills: 19,883
Deaths: 8,760
Ratio: 2.27

that’s actually pretty low considering how it’s near impossible to land damage on you. lol

kudos on the godly builds – never seen anything like it before since gw1.

invincible, invincible, invincible, evade evade evade evade, block, block, block, block, block, 0 damage, 0 damage, 0 damage …../repeat.

great stuff. you saved your best wine for us! <3

Yup.
I mean, when you have professions running around doing 10k+ damage in a single hit, it makes sense to make sure your build can avoid those hits. Especially since those of us running those kinds of builds are roamers and we are usually hitting groups that heavily outnumber us.

I’m enjoying T3.
Mags ratio is
Kills: 19,883
Deaths: 8,760
Ratio: 2.27

elkirin.8534:

If I had believed it was not a joke response, my response to it would have been deleted by now anyway.

Right? This thread is about half the size it was earlier.

Silverstone.4539:

Jana.6831:

Silverstone.4539:

I’m fine with people that want to fight, I just don’t like bad sports that go too far.

Well obviously not because you never use food out of principle and call everybody who does and who dares to attack you “dirty”.

if someone kept binging a gun to a knife fight, would you want to keep fighting with them?

you got that backwards… you are the only one bringing a knife to a gunfight and getting kittened at everyone else for coming prepared.

Silverstone.4539:

That must be it. I keep running in to Dueller roamers. if I want to Duel, I’ll do it in SPvP where it’s a little bit (balance problems withholding) more fair.

Other night, same bloody thing. I was on my glass ele, just going about capping stuff. Some kitten mes starting dogging me (with food). I knew I could not bet him with my set up, so tried to avoid him, and he was Condi/stealth crap. but somehow he keep tracking me down. after killing me a 4th time I said F it, and change to my engineer. meat him again at a camp. killed him twice and never saw him again?

was he a Dueller or roamer? to me, he was just a kittening kitten. I never! ever started the fights, even when I was on engineer, he always started them.

As for the food – I never use food as a matter of principle. so if I lose, “well he had food” if i win – " Ha, and he even had food" its win win for me

………. What?

TheBravery.9615:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

With all due respect, your response shows how disconnected the developers are with design needs of the game.

The following is based on my perspective and my perspective only

If you haven’t noticed, the cries of having less PVE came about when HoT and the desert borderlands were released. Prior to this, there were NO complaints that veteran guards in WvW objectives were a major problem that needs addressed.

The complaints stem from the artificial bloat created from HoT’s new content-

• the Oasis event
• Gimmick shrines and environmental effects
• Various scribe impact on WvW
• Complex map structures and verticallity
• Miscellaneous things like mass invisibility in WvW (Seriously, who thought this was a good idea? It’s as if ArenaNet perceived that everyone wants to bring back culling)

In the end, while it’s true that there needs to be less PvE, it doesn’t mean that guards at a camp should remain buggy and not defend the objective under attack.

To reiterate:

• YES, less PVE is needed- but it’s not what you think
• Guards at camps/towers/keeps should defend their objective when under attack and not just stand there staring at the air like a bunch of idiots. They need to SCRAMBLE and DEFEND.
• WvW does not need the mindless complexity to artificially make combat interesting. (Talking about airship attacks, shrines, wvw banners, and all other NEW stuff introduced in HoT). Combat is interesting in it’s own way. Please consider the asuran mantra- “Embrace simplicity”.
• Think of reasons why simple map designs are so popular in competitive games like league of legends (summoner’s rift), halo (blood gulch / coagulation), and super smash brothers (final destination). Maps don’t need all these “gimmicks” to artificially make combat “interesting”. Desert borderlands is unsuccessful for the same reason skyhammer is unsuccessful- it’s too complicated when really, all you needed was a simple hilly area to duke it out.

+1
Well said.

@Tyler: The best part of this problem is you absolutely do not have to fix it. Just bring back the alpine bl with the old guards and the problem will be solved.

baylock.1703:

TheHeretic.3529:

1. roamers are almost always thieves which take 0 skill to get a kill with
2. roamers almost always try to gank people
3. roamers target people who want nothing to do with you

basically no one likes you because you’re annoying

Actually no I’m on FSP and accept from one of my friend I have not seen eny thief roamers going around for some reason zergs have 2 to 3 thiefs now but cant finde single as roamer I myself play power revenant or power Mesmer when i roam

That’s because with all the passive “save your butt” skills in the game now most 1v1 fights for a thief are an uphill battle. Especially since they removed guard stacks and a zerk thief can literally be 1 shot.

I had a poor condi trapper thief trying to kill me for about 10 minutes yesterday while I flipped the frogs, I managed to down him a few times but he always popped his refuge before going down and I had no cleave, after that I completely ignored him and just shrugged at him a few times while I went on about my business.

Arius.7031:

DeceiverX.8361:

T3 is probably the fairest place to roam alone with moderate degrees of action. Below that it’s dead, and imho having no fights is no fun. If I wanted to kill PvE mobs, I’d go to PvE where the rewards are good.

Honestly tier 4 has more roaming that tier 3 because there’s 3 servers actually roaming. No offense to SoS, but it’s t3 only in terms of ppt not population. HoD is significantly more populated than SoS, it’s not even close in terms of overall pop. SoS is pretty much random small groups of people ppting the BLs 24/7.

Btw this isn’t meant to be offensive to SoS, props for doing what you can with what you have, these are just the facts.

You just have to come out at 3am EST if you want to find the big SoS groups

rotsono.9176:

I dont mind the roamers that do smallscale fights with other roamers or some that fight 1vs1 somewhere.
The most hate goes to the roamers that are kinda annoying and run behind the zerg and try to gank people that stand to far away.
That roamers are mostly first target and getting chased down cuz they are god kitten annoying.

Those roamers are trying to teach you to stay on tag. You should be thanking them.

Silverstone.4539:

Only roamers I don’t like. Are the ones that use food buffs vs people that don’t use them.

Wot?
That’s like saying you choose to run around without armor and it’s unfair if other people wear armor when they fight you.

Picked up about 80 bags roaming in T3 today. A lot of that was jumping in and picking off the fat kids when zergs were fighting but it was still pretty constant fights all day. That’s EB though, the bl’s are dead.

DeceiverX.8361:

I speak strictly from the mindset of PvE/sPvP players who have tried WvW and did not enjoy it (thus the PvE/sPvP distinction instead of PvX), and further, that people shouldn’t feel the need to play a certain format due to an imbalance in rewards. We’ve definitely gotten the short end of the stick, but it’s in ANet’s manifesto that no format should be slighted in such a way, so there’s no justification for them intentionally trying to funnel people into the format who have tried it already and who have no interest in it.

There should be an incentive to try it for the sake of having a fun time and getting competitive rewards, not simply the best rewards. The incentive of beginning to try WvW is already there – mass-scale PvP combat – but retaining players is very difficult, and retention is clearly what is failing due to the overwhelming cost of playing the format with very little personal gain aside from just the sheer experience of playing, which for new players/characters does not enable experimentation with builds or other game systems as to promote character/account growth.

That would have been a solid argument 4 years ago but WvW has gotten the short end of the stick for far too long. Equal rewards won’t attract new players. We no longer have servers outside of WvW to try and recruit new players, we don’t have server wide chat to try and recruit new players, hell we don’t even have WvW as part of map completion anymore. WvW needs something exclusive to draw people in or it will slowly die to attrition.

Dawdler.8521:

Puck.9612:

I’m wondering if they could do something with stun breaks…. maybe add a 2 sec invuln to CC after using them, and change several of the stun breaks to aoe for up to 5 people.

I could see this letting organized groups be able to push and retreat without being cc’d to death, but they wouldn’t be able to flat out ignore stuns.

This is an kitten backwards way of trying to solve it. Stability is supposed to be a proactive boon you pop before/when the enemy attempt to CC you. By changing stunbreak to cc immunity, you would just promote players and zergs faceplanting into CC in order to pop stunbreaks and then stab through.

Do you really think zergs are going to continuously smash their faces into stuns rather than using stability beforehand? This would give them a small window to push through ridiculous chokes filled with DH baby gates that would otherwise be impossible.

SkyShroud.2865:

Puck.9612:

FogLeg.9354:

DeceiverX.8361:

Merged servers is frankly be the worst possible way to handle the WvW population issue as it only solves symptoms and not the actual underlying problems.

It does not have to be “merge”, could be some other way, but number of servers HAS to be reduced dramatically. And I am in one of the dead servers, which I always love and will never transfer away, but it’s still dead. Sure there are other stuff that needs to be fixed too, but the last servers were dying even before HoT.

I find this to be a very odd statement. You love your server and would never leave but you want to see it destroyed?

He just means that he will accept whatever happen to the server system despite how much love he has for the server system. He has prepared to face reality.

Reality is server merges would go over terribly and drive even more people away from the game, especially since all the things that have been killing the game haven’t been addressed yet.
If the OP isn’t having fun on his server and his friends have already left then he should move. He can even park a free account on his server so he can keep playing with them from time to time.

FogLeg.9354:

DeceiverX.8361:

Merged servers is frankly be the worst possible way to handle the WvW population issue as it only solves symptoms and not the actual underlying problems.

It does not have to be “merge”, could be some other way, but number of servers HAS to be reduced dramatically. And I am in one of the dead servers, which I always love and will never transfer away, but it’s still dead. Sure there are other stuff that needs to be fixed too, but the last servers were dying even before HoT.

I find this to be a very odd statement. You love your server and would never leave but you want to see it destroyed?

I’d rather just see the loot table changed. Give greater rewards for player kills than you do for captures and give diminishing returns for the amount of players within 2000 range.
By this I mean if you solo kill or capture something you have a much higher chance of getting extra rewards (gold, exotics, etc.) and for each additional player nearby your chance decreases by 5%

With this system you will still be safer and cap things quicker with a zerg, but it encourages players to run small groups.

I’m wondering if they could do something with stun breaks…. maybe add a 2 sec invuln to CC after using them, and change several of the stun breaks to aoe for up to 5 people.

I could see this letting organized groups be able to push and retreat without being cc’d to death, but they wouldn’t be able to flat out ignore stuns.

DeceiverX.8361:

PvE/sPvP players shouldn’t feel compelled to play WvW for optimal loot/ascended items just as we shouldn’t be compelled to play their format.

The gear won’t matter to SPvP players so that is a non issue. But I disagree that PvE players shouldn’t be compelled to come to WvW. It’s been the other way around for 4 years and that is one of the reasons (one of many) that WvW is suffering.

WvW was already in rough shape due to stagnation but then Anet removed guard stacks, nerfed things like condi duration food, and then added armor with better stats (including condi duration) that you could only get in PvE. They also made it so you need to go to PvE to get mats for GH upgrades. They were basically forcing you out of WvW in order to play at a competitive level.

If you give PvE players a reason to come to WvW and spend some time there, some of them might end up enjoying it and sticking around.

It really depends on the rest of your build. Are you running shouts with trooper runes? Roaming without condi cleanse right now would be pretty rough.

apharma.3741:

Additionally it requires no new items to be generated!

The more I think about it the more I realize WvW does need new, exclusive items.
If Anet really wants to save WvW (which is questionable) they need to introduce items that will draw in new players.
After HoT was released I saw players that exclusively WvW’d go to PvE to grind out the new stats, most of them didn’t enjoy it but it encouraged them to try it out and now several of them occasionally go to the HoT maps to do events and make gold.

It’s the same with SPvP. I personally find it pretty mediocre due to the terrible class balance and the fact that they still don’t have a death match game mode, but I PvP quite often to obtain transmutes.
WvW doesn’t have anything like this. We’ve have the same crappy badge armor and weapons for years. The stats are completely outdated and there is multiple ways to obtain the gear.
Anet needs to introduce gear you can only get in WvW and keep it that way for a minimum of 6 months.

That’s what finally made me move my last account off of AR. I’d stuck with it for 4 years but I would log on, spend an hour playing and literally see no one.
The good news is there are plenty of Anvil refugees scattered around the other servers. I’ve moved one of my accounts a good bit and I run into old friends on every tier. Ebay has LGN and GoM has TM, if you are looking for some familiar faces you should check one of those out.

It would also be nice to see some exclusive skins. Maybe bring back some GW1 skins so the art department doesn’t have to work to hard.

Making these new skins only obtainable in WvW would also encourage more players to come play.

Personally I would like to see ascended armor and weapons added, especially the newer gear that is locked behind a PvE grind wall like Viper’s.

Along with this I believe they should make it so Proof of Heroics can only be earned in WvW (not EotM) to encourage new players to try out the game mode.

What else would you like to see added?

UnitedChaos.8364:

Nevermore Flatbow

Awe man I had forgotten about that one. That would fit my character so well. I also miss my silverwing

Offair.2563:

Funny to see many being surprised about the fact we won’t get the old borderlands back in their original state. Never learned from the past?

I think people were hoping Anet had finally learned from the past.

Leaa.2943:

LilBiM.3581:

Over the past hour or so there have been reports of persons from NSP (one of which is a ranger) solo capping towers in EBG and the DHBL in our match-up (DH vs NSP vs HoD). The last recent take was a fully upgraded Jerrifer’s Slough (at ~21:00 EST) in EBG without any siege at all.

Before that about 10mins before a Ranger was spotted in Aldon’s Ledge, again no walls down, no gates down, no siege on the ground either but at Lords attempting to take the tower by itself.

I’m not going to ask for the best way to report this since not everyone who plays WvW has recording software ready under the assumption that they are going to run into someone who abnormally gained access to a tower or Keep.

This kind of activity has been going on for years at this stage. What I want to know is whether this is business as usual or will this too be fixed in the up-coming major WvW patch?

Well how do you suggest for it to be solved? I mean come on do you really think that Arena Net have the means to monitor every person inside of wvw to be able to stop them? We need to help them, and they ofc need solid proof for it or it could be abused to a point were players would be banned for something they never done, just getting trolled.

Now i get it that you are not able to make the proof, but ask in mapchat for someone that can and then send it to exploits@arena.net
The better proof the easier it is for A-Net to find them.

Same suggestion I made years ago. Anet needs to let each server put forth a few names to represent their communities. Give these players the ability to suspend the hackers accounts. They will need to give Anet video proof of the hacking, once it is proven Anet can ban them. If the representatives are found to be abusing their power they will lose their own accounts.

This means in most cases hackers will be stopped instantly instead of having to deal with them for months at a time.

Dawdler.8521:

They already moved them after community pressure (was supposed to be on the border towers, completely pointless). I dont think they have any intentions to fix it further. Instead they bugfixed (ie broke) them with the removal of the contest interval.

You know that saying “one step forward, two steps back”? It doesnt apply to Anet. They take one step forward, spins around randomly, take three drunken steps to the right, trips over their own legs, jump two steps back and somehow still manages to end up head down in a ditch 20 steps to the left.

+1 lol

Angel Heart.6739:

thats your excuse for giving thiefs a means just to jump back to their spawn?

You are actulaly gonna time it from the spawn-point on Alpine to first camp with a return-skill over 10,000 and perma stealth, Puck are you by any chance working for the players that used to tag evry keep, tower and camp on the map?

Or the players solo that killed all solo initiative on the alpine borderlands?

You seem to know so much? About being a solo thief in WvW? Doesn’t really sound like a scout does it?

Why don’t you tell players for real what store you really working for Captain HooK:-)

Well that was quite the incomprehensible rant you spewed out. Were you drunk when you typed this? What the hell does captain hook have to do with anything?

Seriously the only thing I got from that is that you have a serious hate on for thieves… did a bad thief hurt you? Show us on the doll where the bad thief touched you to make you so angry…

Dawdler.8521:

Warcry.1596:

Why should I be able to max Scrapper while playing nothing but Necromancer, despite not ever really playing Engineer at all?

Same reason you can level a character you never played from 1-80 in a minute or two.

That said, I honestly fail to see the point. Not even the most hardcore WvWer will die from spending a couple hours in PvE, which is all it take to max an elite. At least I dont think so. Well, maybe a few of them.

They won’t die but if they’re like me they will get so bored that they simply log off instead of playing.

Also it’s not like grinding a bunch of hours on each character helps you learn the new specialization that you are working towards. You don’t learn the new skills/traits until they are unlocked, so why delay the learning process with a grind wall?

Jana.6831:

I’d love to have a ~10 slot bag for only siege – no other things can be put into it.
I would favour it being a wvw only item which can only be earned in wvw.
The problem is that the PvE people of this game will complain.

They could make it a wallet for siege, tricks, traps, food and utilities and sell it on the gem store. PvE players won’t care about most of that but the food/utilities might appeal to them.

Swagger.1459:

ArchonWing.9480:

Pffttt, and I already got 8/9 specializations the hard way.

Granted, it will still be tedious grinding them in WvW, but at least you won’t have to leave WvW it. In PvE you could unlock the whole thing in a few hours, much less if you have any degree of social skills or click LFG while (non-EOTM) WvW would take 10-20 hours depending on what you do.

In practice this benefits mostly people who usually WvW, PvP’ers that don’t pve at all but sometimes go into wvw, or people that really hate the new maps. For anyone else, it’s still the same basically.

For my future Rev and for anyone else that still needs elite specs, that is a good thing.

Will also be great for future elite specializations so save them.

Bet you a dollar any new specialization gets locked behind a new currency

Gorani.7205:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Yes.

That said, we’ll be increasing the cooldowns on all tactics by 5-10 minutes. Also, once the scribing costs come down, as part of the april build, we can start looking at rebalancing their actual effects as well.

Thanks Tyler, because this is a reasonable approach to dealing with the tactics.

To all the hateful people here on this thread:
Have you been the same people that complained how stale WvW was for a very long time? Tactics & Improvements actually offer a lot more diversity to the mode, when they are not just used by the powerful & wealthy like now. Reduced scribing costs will allow more of them being placed on the maps and smaller guilds and roamers to deploy them as well. Reducing some super powerful effects is what can be evaluated in the beta-phase of changes in WvW.
Alpine maps will benefit from them in the long run.

If you ate spaghetti every day for a month you might get a little tired of it and want something else to eat. If someone gave you a plate with a big steaming pile of cowkitten would you happily eat it and say, “well at least it’s not spaghetti” or would you prefer to just have spaghetti again?

good news…… would have been nice to see them post it here instead of kittening reddit though.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

DeWolfe.2174:

FogLeg.9354:

Zephyra.4709:

Long text

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

And when they roll out the big WvW update and it goes to Alliances, you’ll then know what’s been tested.

Very exciting!!!

Yup exciting to not be able to notice how many players have left.

Yeah, they spend more effort in making things look like the population isn’t dropping than they do on solutions to stop it from dropping to begin with.
I understand it can be difficult but how many times have they made changes that are in direct opposition to what people want. This is the only game I have played where it honestly feels like a case study on how much they can mess with a game and its player base and still be profitable. IMO they have done way to many things for it to just be bad decisions. Every other MMO I have played has stumbled on the way but GW2’s stumbles feel more blatant to me. Maybe its just the egos that are in charge and they want their vision no matter the cost but that is a really bad attitude to have.

I honestly believe they are doing everything they can to make WvW an unplayable pile of kitten so that they can get rid of enough players that there won’t be a huge uproar when they destroy the servers and turn it into a megaserver. Anet prefers EotM because it’s very casual which equals less work for them.
They’ve turned into the kind of company that would rather create something crappy that makes them a lot of money for very little work, like candy crush, instead of something creative like they did with GW1.

Heibi.4251:

Not having them makes sense. But if they were there here’s some funny ways they could have a special effect.
Water Keep: All shrines active, owning server can walk on water while the opposing servers swim at half speed.
Hills Keep: Boulders roll down the main road at random, and I liked the one suggestion with snow storms – maybe make a 20% miss chance.
Garrison: Portal in citadel directly into keep when owning all shrines.

But, no, they don’t belong in alpine BLs.

You could already portal from citadel to garri if you had a competent mesmer

ualgh.1832:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Yes.

That said, we’ll be increasing the cooldowns on all tactics by 5-10 minutes. Also, once the scribing costs come down, as part of the april build, we can start looking at rebalancing their actual effects as well.

Regarding this kind of statement, I have a relatively simple question that I think a lot of dedicated WvW people would like to know:

Is ArenaNet’s unflagging dedication to failed World vs. World updates worth the high cost of continued and irreparable harm to its own game mode?

dubstax.9102:

Okay okay. Look, I am not trying to tick off you old veteran World vs. World players. I just like seeing issues from all angles when it has to do with a topic I find myself interested in. I like World vs. World… even now. I do agree that a different direction needs to be taken to bring it back to being more immersive and fun for everyone. Tactivators are here to stay. What I would like to see is more of a focus on how they work, when they work, and how they affect not just immediate battles but the overall strategic impact they have on the map where they are deployed. Make lemonade out of lemons folks. It may not be ideal to have them in the alpine BLs, but an adjustment to cooldowns is a start and at least shows that ArenaNet is trying.

kitten that. If you are driving down the road and realize you went in the wrong direction you turn the hell around. You don’t keep driving hoping somehow you’ll get even more lost and magically find yourself at your destination.

Anet tried something new and it didn’t work. That would be fine if they were willing to learn from their mistakes. Ignoring that they made a mistake and continuing to waste time and money on the mistake is the problem. They need to revert WvW to a playable state, start communicating with WvW players on the forum (not kittening PvE streamers, not kittening reddit) and try out new things.

Angel Heart.6739:

its not just that on Abl in the open spaces you would be easily intercepted by roaming thiefs that were hiding around camps, the spacing wasn’t enough to give you the time to escape. Think thats why perma stealth was so polular.

What…….
First off, thieves are easy to kill on kitten near every class. Secondly, open space means better Los to see them approaching and more room to avoid them and escape if you need to. Hell in 2 of the camps you could hop in the water where the thief wouldn’t stand a chance, at NE camp you could move the fight to the southern cliff and drop onto the little ledge. If the thief follows you onto the ledge you could easily kill him since stealth won’t help him there and he has no room to kite.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Yes.

That said, we’ll be increasing the cooldowns on all tactics by 5-10 minutes. Also, once the scribing costs come down, as part of the april build, we can start looking at rebalancing their actual effects as well.

I mean…. are you trying to kill WvW? Seriously what the kitten is wrong with you people.
Leave that kitten in EB if you want, you’ll still get people to give you money so they can grind your kittening pve pay wall, but give us back the alpine map without your stupid kitten.
I know Anet had a serious problem with thinking about long term solutions but here’s a hint, you can’t milk a dead cow.

Did you post this in the bug forum? The only time anyone at Anet comes to the wvw forums is when some streamer comments on how dead wvw is.

joneirikb.7506:

Regarding Puck/Ansau discussion: I have to agree with Puck when it comes to lower tiers (that we’ve both been used to). We don’t have the people to spread out for those maps. A few roamers could easier control larger areas in Alpine.

I can see Ansau’s arguments better in a tier with more people. I haven’t been in a high enough tier for that since way before HoT, so can’t really comment.

1 of my accounts is on T3 and no one there has the man power or inclination to station people around an empty map on the off chance a zerg is going to come karma train.
Maybe If defenders had something to do, like upgrade their bl so they could build wp’s in their keeps they might stick around, but currently the map is running on auto pilot and most roamers are sticking to EB.

Ansau.7326:

Puck.9612:

Ansau.7326:

Basically, capping camps in DBL requires map knowledge, takes just a bit longer and no way is the drama some of you pretend. Most of you complain about needing to learn the paths to be nearly as good as before, and sorry but that is a lame argument..

It’s not about learning the paths, it’s about being restricted to them, as I already explained above…

Every structure has at least 2 paths, and most 3 or even more. Defining paths is a way to incentive fights, which is what most people is seeking.

Except it clearly doesn’t work on this map.
Look at EB vs. the desert bl, EB is pretty darn open but it actually does funnel people together. For example, If you are trying to head south towards bravost or umberglade you have choke points at the ogres, or the bridge in front of durios. Most of the map is set up like this. Open areas to allow fights with strategic choke points where you know you can ambush the enemy.
In the desert the paths restrict travel without funneling people together. You can have zergs run past each other without ever seeing each other. If you do happen to run into a much larger group you are screwed because you are stuck in a corridor together with no room to outmaneuver them. You end up pirate shipping and hoping they are just really bad players because they have every advantage in that situation. If you get a call for action across the map you can’t just head in that direction, you have to make detours to find the path that leads to that area, and hope the fight isn’t in an area with some annoying PvE mechanic like stealth sandstorms or constant cripple.

Ansau.7326:

Basically, capping camps in DBL requires map knowledge, takes just a bit longer and no way is the drama some of you pretend. Most of you complain about needing to learn the paths to be nearly as good as before, and sorry but that is a lame argument..

It’s not about learning the paths, it’s about being restricted to them, as I already explained above…

Angel Heart.6739:

And i did mention the reasons i will repeat them:

Seeing you post the same message over and over again is growing tiresome.
Don’t you get bored repeating yourself?
I see you saying the same thing each time:
1. I love playing alone on the deserted bl.
2. I hated that annoying players interrupted my karma train
3. PvE mechanics have made the game so much fun!
4. I am the supreme authority on what roaming/small scale WvW consists of, if you don’t play it exactly the way I do then you are wrong and I’m going to ignore your arguments

Angel Heart.6739:

you are of topic, your post has no relevance towards the subject being small offensive initiative.

His post is right on topic. Small team offensive play had dried up because defenders have nothing to do. It was a symbiotic relationship and HoT killed it.

Angel Heart.6739:

@ Puck

You know, its written all over all your msg’s, evrywhere!

3 things:

1 bring Alpine Borderlands back
2 remove all added game mechanics
3 Turn back the clock

Your msg is getting tiresome!

@Sviel

You are right for obvious reasons

The Desert borderlands have increased the efficiency and the operating possibilities for the small offensive and defensive innitiative.

1) some keep-mechanics allow hiding, not being spotted allows for ambushes
2) the map is bigger, there are more ways to travel around the map
3) there are more choke-points allowing to bring your enemies to a standstill
4)small offensive initiative can work around a map carefully without being detected from the keep to the camps in the south.
5) it takes a bit longer to get from one point to another but atleast it relieves the keeps towers and camps from annoying players that keep tagging them they get bored quicker.(Puck?)
6) if you are smart you dissapear from the enemies sight forcing him to place scouts at all key locations.

Btw your test were done from the right perspective, Puck is wrong.

Somebody sounds a little booty bothered.

FogLeg.9354:

Cerby.1069:

-Grow the stuff! As the objective upgrades it gives access to nodes! So right off the bat after you take something there are no nodes to farm! Nothing to worry about! As it upgrades though nodes and stuff to farm appears! This encourages people to ‘visit’ stuff they otherwise ‘wouldnt’ bother visiting (recall the old upgrade system?) creating a sense of population and presence on the maps.

I think that is good idea. It would solve the problem of half your group always running into nodes after capture and other half has to wait for them, wasting time that would be better spent on running to next fight.

We should remember why nodes were created in WvW first place – players kept complaining how WvW is such a huge money sink and to earn any gold you have to play PvE for hours. Well, gathering nodes give you stuff without requiring to leave WvW.

Yeah but these half kitten nodes they added to keeps and towers after forgetting to put them on the map are an annoyance. At least before you knew what you were getting instead of the random sit you get now. I might stop for platinum but I’ll skip over copper.

They should either put real nodes back on the map or just reward you with random mats when you cap something.

Sviel.7493:

Dawdler.8521:

Fun fact:

Stand on the west wall of SW tower and pretend you are standing in the SW tower on alpine. Look toward the west. See the sentry/little hut? Thats where Alpine south bay door and walls would be.

Sure you can nitpick and say that “oh but undercroft to garri is the same distance as bay to garri, ergo its the same!” but If you consider the whole border and relative distances, the difference is massive. Even if bay-garri would be the same, spawn-camp/tower-bay-camp/tower-garri add up to alot of difference in time.

This is a post about small-scale play. I’m not drawing any conclusions about distances between keeps and what that might mean. The only goal here was to show that the distances between roaming objectives (camps/towers) did not change significantly.

That’s the problem with your tests, everything on the map was a roaming objective. If you were a lone roamer trying to avoid the enemy zerg on the alpine, you could criss cross the map almost anywhere. You weren’t stuck running along a funneled path or forced to take the long way around which will triple the distance.

If I was trying to annoy the enemy I would do things like hit SE camp, tap hills, tap garri, tap bay, tap bay, flip NW. Travel times included, that would take about 5-7 minutes. I don’t even want to think about how long that would take on the deserted bl.