So should I make a video that shows a thief dodging over a set of traps? A warrior using block? Traps are the last thing people should be complaining about with DHs.
Dragon Hunter can also dodge… So that is not an argument. The DH just has too much sustain, condi-clear, blocks and CCs for the spike damage it can unleash.
Elementalists may well dance around traps all they want but they don’t do half the damage of a Dragon Hunter while using 10 times as many skills.
oh yhea , we have god scrapper resssbot unkillable with a paladin amulet , we have ubercondispam from mesmer , we have war that is all about passive things that make him hard to kill , we have druid with his healing capacity op as kitten , but the problem is dh…. dat logic
- Scrapper has seen a slew of nerfs that have cemented it in a well balanced position.
- Mesmer’s condition application is very well broadcasted and the gaps between their defensive mechanics (distortion/evasion/stealth) are large and easily exploited, especially considering their Light armor tiering.
- Warrior has also seen various nerfs to utility, damage, and sustain, although they still could use a shave here and there, much like DH.
- Druid is incredibly susceptible to team focus and CC, although Bristleback and Smokescale could still do with a shave to their damage output.
gonna have to repeat this for the DH players out there for the third time apparently: other professions being imbalanced does not excuse your own profession being overpowered, especially when it’s in the highest tier of overpowered.
I have one of every class, my opinion is not biased. DH is just the easiest and most rewarding class to play. Yes I am aware that the Druids and Mesmers are also problematic. Tempest is just so kittenty at this point it’s not even worth discussing.
Remember when they presented Stronghold as GvG on the day of HoT’s announcement and the audience cheered?
They know that the competitive community want a GvG mode ever since the game was released but they keep avoiding the topic every time it is brought up as if it is a censored topic.
If they want to make a fortune and see their number go up it’s not complicated:
Add a GvG mode with a guild ladder and complete stats tracking. Let the community build the features with a open beta testing ground in constant evolution.
They can even just add open World PvP/GvG with Guild Alliances so they don’t even have to design new maps.
How it works:
The game randomly choose a region where a “Guild War” occur (like the Scarlett attacks used to work). The map becomes red on the world map and everyone going there is either in open PvP or GvG. Sides appear on different corners of the map. The score of the Guilds/Players from a certain alliance is added to a WvW server alliance made of the same guilds/players.
Simple way to make the game more interesting. What Anet needs right now is just some imagination and the guts to do something new.
All hell will break lose, and it takes a minimum of development time.
So should I make a video that shows a thief dodging over a set of traps? A warrior using block? Traps are the last thing people should be complaining about with DHs.
Dragon Hunter can also dodge… So that is not an argument. The DH just has too much sustain, condi-clear, blocks and CCs for the spike damage it can unleash.
Elementalists may well dance around traps all they want but they don’t do half the damage of a Dragon Hunter while using 10 times as many skills.
ANET have no idea what they are doing at this point. They expect ele to be magically viable without toughness and healing power? Should give ele a trait that lets them stealth and gain superspeed after an overload, since good luck fighting burst builds now.
Or holding a point.
Or getting any overloads off.
Or relying on a team now screwed by new matchmaking system.
Nobody want the bunker amulet back anyway, not even the elementalists.
What the elementalists want is to have build variety again like we used to no matter what is the amulet.
If HoT had GvG maps instead of only 1 pvp map, if the Guild Arenas were bigger and had score boards, if they didn’t stop making dungeons, if raids were accessible and had exploration, if they listened to the Desert BL feedback – merged the servers and brought back the orb, if some elite spec design didn’t suck so much (Tempest), if the living story didn’t stop for a year, if they didn’t do the legendary collections, if the class balance wasn’t terrible, if there weren’t other good MMO around…
… Then the game would be going really well.
The reason things are as they are is that the management is unable to focus the devs on what this game really needs.
It’s wasted potential… There was once a thriving GvG scene, they could have capitalized on it instead of telling them they were not “playing the game right”.
Now where is that GvG scene? Probably playing Rocket League.
(edited by Xillllix.3485)
I saw 7 guards in a game once, and I barely play since my main elementalist class has been completely destroyed by the “balance” team ever since HoT’s release.
So basically without the players purchasing gems they have little income, but then if they focus on the gem store they lose more players because of things like terrible class balance, lack of GvG and neglected WvW. It’s a vicious circle and they need to choose: content people really care about, or more skins?
You can do pretty well on guard without knowing ho to play. Just get the medi-trapper build on metabattle.
…or ignore us and give 1% buff to scepter…I bet Karl never ever read any post in ele subforum.
He never did listen to the tempest feedback. He was like “ya ya ya, it’s complicated”, I think all his time was spent redesigning the first elite skill he made that didn’t work, to end up with a second version just as useless and with the same visual effect.
Nothing too serious, just playing other games until they fix the elementalist.
Can we please get a working Mac Client [Merged]
in Account & Technical Support
Posted by: Xillllix.3485
Would be nice to know what will be the performance increase.
If there are so many complaints it’s because the balance team is both not improving the balance and they are reducing build variety instead of improving it.
If they would have listened to the community they would be getting praises instead of complaints.
I’m making this Topic because I like a challenge and I like a fight, not having the upper hand simply because my class is, without a doubt, stronger and simply makes no sense to fight.
If that’s true please explain why this class was the least used class in the last WTS Qualifier?
5 Heralds
4 Druids
4 Chronomancers
3 Berserkers
2 Scrappers
2 Reapers
2 Tempests
1 Daredevil
1 Dragonhunterhttps://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Team-comp-at-the-WTS-Qualifier
WTS players do not represent the the community. They should have no more influence over how the classes are balanced than any of the other players that paid for the same game.
The question Anet needs to ask themselves is “Is the gameplay better and the balance more fair now than how it was 1 year after release of the game?” and the answer is “No! Everything got worse.”
This class is awful at the moment. ANET killed the d/d spec which may have been the biggest draw. Nerf after nerf and lack of meaningful attention have turned this class into the most boring class in the game.
I don’t want to run around with a warhorn, blindly pressing auras (a spec which take little to no skill). I want d/d returned to a viable state and way to deal with this out of control condition situation.
I transferred all my ascended to my mesmer and redid my fractal set on him. I’ve been done with elly since Saturday. The last round of nerfs were the nail in the coffin for me.
Agreed, but we can’t say that we haven’t seen it coming. It’s been an ongoing process of bad ideas, bad changes and miscalculated nerfs.
We used to complain about our elite being worthless, now it’s the entire class.
Everyone knows Guardians are too rewarding in regards to how easy they are to play.
Every 2-3 matches I end up in a match with 5, 6 or even 7 guards!
They cover the cap points with traps, it’s totally breaking the game mode.
If that’s not an indication of how broken they are I don’t know what is.Yeah they’re not going to make balance updates until the end of the season, I don’t think they make changes mid season unless something is horribly overpowered.
Even if they do make changes after, I don’t think there is anyone left that believes that the balance team can actually improve the balance at this point. All they’ve done in the last year is make things worse.
Do you not remember season 1 where only 2 builds could be played to rek all other comps? The Devs have done great work in the last few months to bring GW2 back from the worst time it has ever had in regards to balance. You are letting your rage against DH shadow the logic that Anet is actually doing good work to progress pvp in the way that it should go.
I’m not raging against the DH, it’s the class I’m playing since my ele main is useless… I’m just lucid enough to admit that it doesn’t sacrifice enough defenses for the damage it does, that you don’t even need to know how to play to win a 2v1, and that 2 or more of them together defending a point is game-breaking.
Everyone knows Guardians are too rewarding in regards to how easy they are to play.
Every 2-3 matches I end up in a match with 5, 6 or even 7 guards!
They cover the cap points with traps, it’s totally breaking the game mode.
If that’s not an indication of how broken they are I don’t know what is.Necro can cover point with marks, so are they broken too? I know what it is.. a l2p issue
ps: wrote sigils instead of marks
Yeah sure, 30-40k insta burst right on the central points, that’s not broken at all. What will it take for you guys to wake up? 5v5 with 10 guards? Necros don’t even hit half as hard.
I have never seen a guard insta burst 30-40k even when they run full Zerker with Scholar runes, best there traps hit for is between 16-22k and that’s with a few procession of blade procs and Sigil of air before the Air damage nerf. Was proving a point to a DH main that his traps can 1 hit squishy classes even when the DH is away, now if they sit on point to get hit by the three traps and then they lay them down again if they are off cd it can be an issue but you do have reaction time to those and counter play. I don’t advocate for this gameplay just think your numbers are a bit skewed.
I’m talking about games with 5+ guards in them where you have about 6-8 traps covering the mid point. It’s just gamebreaking.
Can the Frost Bow’s Ice Storm be semi-decent in PvP again? :0
It’s easier just to apply the balance changes using random algorithms and have the pvp team remove amulets.
Everyone knows Guardians are too rewarding in regards to how easy they are to play.
Every 2-3 matches I end up in a match with 5, 6 or even 7 guards!
They cover the cap points with traps, it’s totally breaking the game mode.
If that’s not an indication of how broken they are I don’t know what is.Necro can cover point with marks, so are they broken too? I know what it is.. a l2p issue
ps: wrote sigils instead of marks
Yeah sure, 30-40k insta burst right on the central points, that’s not broken at all. What will it take for you guys to wake up? 5v5 with 10 guards? Necros don’t even hit half as hard.
Played 9 games as an ele, won 1 of them. Playing intence with knowledge of my class (mained it for more than a year). Got instakilled by a random passing thiefs, warriors, guardians, druids, revenants, mesmers, necros etc.
Rolled a warrior (first time, never played a warrior in spvp), took the first build from metabattle, missed 80% of my skills, missused 90% of my skills, and won the game by stomping enemies.
And why should one play ele in current season?
Same, playing elementalist is just the most unfair competitive MMO gaming experience I’ve seen. Not rewarding at all.
Everyone knows Guardians are too rewarding in regards to how easy they are to play.
Every 2-3 matches I end up in a match with 5, 6 or even 7 guards!
They cover the cap points with traps, it’s totally breaking the game mode.
If that’s not an indication of how broken they are I don’t know what is.
Yeah they’re not going to make balance updates until the end of the season, I don’t think they make changes mid season unless something is horribly overpowered.
Even if they do make changes after, I don’t think there is anyone left that believes that the balance team can actually improve the balance at this point. All they’ve done in the last year is make things worse.
They need to make pvp skill-based instead of just needing to have the right comp running the cheesiest build. There is a reason a game like Rocket League is going so well right now as an eSport.
You can’t have an eSport when things are so unfairly balanced, you can only pretend.
We ALL want GW2 to succeed, but to be honest GW2 eSport proposition looks amateurish right now. Promoting build variety is the solution: you can only get balanced gameplay if players can find counters themselves, but right now everything is so one-dimensional (so much condi and ccs) there is nothing positive to look at when making a build on some classes.
Staff is the only weapon they haven’t destroyed.
With the meteornado/meteor nerf, fire line nerfs and lava font nerf they are getting there.
It’s over. They nerfed the entire class out of the pvp game.
If you want to have fun just play guardian, you don’t need to know how:
Take the medi-trapper build on meta battle. put traps and press F1 twice then press all the keys. Use scepter 5 when things are heating up. When everything is on cooldown use your elite and you’re ready to spam all your skills again.
PvP is great atm guys. What is your problem? All classes are viable (don’t give me the ele sucks bull), Every class was played in the Qualifiers. There is a new map that is fun, they are working on making skyhammer and spiritwatch competitive. They are meeting a lot of QoL issues like queueing outside of the mists…. PvP hasn’t been this good in a long time. If your problem is “balance” then L2P against the classes that are hurting you. Not everything is devs fault. The point of PvP is to grow in skill, not to complain and be handed an OP build.
Delpfine Out
It’s not great at all. I’ve played since the game was released and there NEVER has been less build variety. And yes the elementalist sucks, it’s not bull. Just try to play something that isn’t complete bunker with that class and land your staff/scepter/warhorn skills that lag like hell while being condi-bombed.
Haven’t been motivated to play since the condi revamp. I don’t have GW2 installed anymore for the first time since launch and I don’t really miss it. There’s so much condi stacking and not an equivalent amount of clears, there’s no counter for condis. I can put every single condition in the game on someone as a single person at high stacks and high timers and unless they’ve given up their entire spec to clearing they can’t do anything about it. And that’s just 1v1, if there’s 2- 5 condi players on a team (which is every team every game) every player has too many condi on them at all times. There’s not enough dodges and clears in the game to deal with it. If you toned down condis 6 months ago your pvp would still be salvageable. It’s just not fun, interesting, or skillful anymore. You balanced to make the lowest skill playstyle basically the only viable DPS and suppression, choking the life out of any actual fun builds.
What Asgaeroth said right here is so true! He has the finger right on what is ruining the game balance and gameplay.
Glad to see you guys are focusing on class balance and build diversity now that the season started. I was afraid it would stay as it currently is.
I reinstalled the game recently, I thought things would improve but it’s just been getting worse.
Being forced to play bunker as an elementalist is just an insult to how good and fun the class used to be. Then to compare I played with a DH, a class I don’t even know how to play (didn’t even read the traits!), and roll my face on the keyboard and win a 1v2 in my first match. I don’t know what the balance team is thinking but this is a total mess and failure accomplishing their task of creating build variety and “balancing”.
Because instead of balancing skills to create build variety it seems the balance team just wants to “change the meta” which pretty much equals to them telling you what build to play.
As an elementalist I now play DH because you don’t even need to know how to play the class to win a 1v2. It’s simply the easiest class to play and the strongest class, therefore when your class becomes useless because Anet mess up the balance (like with the elementalist) it’s the perfect immediate substitute.
DH = faceroll, and positive results
Tempest = learn to master your class like a ninja, and you still get wrecked
The old trait system was better, specially because you had stats attached you your distributed points. It’s what kept the balance in check. Since they removed that the balance and variety went to kitten.
Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Powermore dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta
It would probably be deemed to OP as elementalist have thier fire and air oveloads which already dealt decent damage with cleric amulet. Adding 1050 precision aka 54 percent crit chance would prolly havet this amulet removed in no time. It’s a stronger version of the cleric amulet which was already deemed to OP. Not that I agree tough cleric is fine to me, but it seems A-net is extremely carefull with support amulets. It’s for that reason they gave us absolute kittening garbage like Diviners and Seekers amulet.
They’d rather give us support amulets without any form of sustain then an bruiser amulet. Heck nobody uses palladins amulet other then then scrapper who has the boons to make use of it.
The nature of the elementalist is celestial. They can play all they want trying to force the class into total bunker or total burst, but it will just never work well with the new trait system.
When they removed celestial they removed all the build variety that was left for the elementalist. It was a disastrous mistake on their part, but certainly not the first one they made.
And what will that solve? nothing? U will get the same QQ you got last years about elementalists bieng able to do a jack of all trades.Undying, yet deal damaga and at the same time support the group.
You are better off. trying to bring an bruiser amulet with a bit less self sustain then to go back to celestial amulet.
ie replace the toughness with vitality and the precision with concentration.
That QQ was mostly unfounded and came from people that didn’t understood the class. They already had nerfed the fire line to the ground removing 12 possible stacks of might on cantrips. If they wanted to nerf us even more they only add to trim a 3-5% off celestial. Other classes used it as well and were strong with it.
The problem came when people started to play bunker ele because nothing else was viable because of (1) the damage and condi increase of OTHER classes and (2) the nature of the game mode that benifits from people tanking in a circle.
As someone else said, it’s a huge mess.
Tempest is the worst thing to happen to the Elementalist in years. Its nerfing was a mercy-killing imo, so I’m happy about that I guess.
Yes I guess that’s one positive way to look at it. It’s just sad to think about the wasted potential of this game. They had everything they need to make something remarkable for a competitive mmo.
Deciding to not add a GvG mode was probably the moment where they took the wrong turn.
Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Powermore dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta
It would probably be deemed to OP as elementalist have thier fire and air oveloads which already dealt decent damage with cleric amulet. Adding 1050 precision aka 54 percent crit chance would prolly havet this amulet removed in no time. It’s a stronger version of the cleric amulet which was already deemed to OP. Not that I agree tough cleric is fine to me, but it seems A-net is extremely carefull with support amulets. It’s for that reason they gave us absolute kittening garbage like Diviners and Seekers amulet.
They’d rather give us support amulets without any form of sustain then an bruiser amulet. Heck nobody uses palladins amulet other then then scrapper who has the boons to make use of it.
The nature of the elementalist is celestial. They can play all they want trying to force the class into total bunker or total burst, but it will just never work well with the new trait system.
When they removed celestial they removed all the build variety that was left for the elementalist. It was a disastrous mistake on their part, but certainly not the first one they made.
Do you guys think something is being done at Anet to fix this situation or that we’ll have to ditch the class for another 6 months?
There is just no point anymore.
Why play a class that has less defenses, less hp and does less damage? It was clear at the beginning that the elementalist was the squishiest and did the most damage. To simplify: it was understood by everyone that it was a risk/reward class. Now if you remove the reward portion of that you end up with a broken game.
In HoT they turned that upside down, but they didn’t have a solid enough idea to make it work so they are struggling with numbers while it’s the entire concept of Tempest they have to start over because, on top of that, it’s a design that also works against the class core mechanic.
It’s more complex than that obviously, the elementalist only worked in the old trait system. The original developers of the system understood that.
From a number perspective Anet balances class around PvE bosses that stand still. Some skills that were barely usable in PvP like Ice Bow were completely rendered useless, in that case by an excessive 50% nerf. That says a lot, because if you cannot even balance numbers right how can you expect to have great success with gameplay.
This is why all the passive application of condis and easy to play classes are dominating pvp. Because the aptitude of Anet for balancing classes and skills now stops right there at changing numbers (it used to be different).
Judging by the decline of build variety in the latest balance changes it seems that when they release a new balance patch it’s more about marketing a new release than anything else.
(edited by Xillllix.3485)
When every balance patch the skills and class balance just gets worse and the build variety diminishes you know there is definitively something wrong.
Elementalists do not want Cleric back, be forced to play bunker again and be told that it’s “balanced”. What elementalists want is for Karl and his team to rebalance the elementalists skills and traits to bring back the build variety the class once had.
Old d/d ele before the new trait system.
Robert should be head of balance and everyone knows it.
Yeah, Ice Bow in PvP was really a huge problem… /sarcasm “drops mic”
Dragon Hunter is the easiest class to play. I have 1 of each class, and DH is the only class you can faceroll and win even in outnumbered situations without experience.
I have nothing against the class (played it for a few hours yesterday), or any other class. But to pretend this class is difficult with the current balance is just not being honest. It’s like pretending that the elementalist class isn’t underpowered when it has to dance like a monkey to achieve even the most basic things.
A joke? Well that’s easy. Just say “I play Ele” and people laugh.
Make a meditrapper: metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Meditrapper
Then look for elementalists in pvp. Put the trap down, press F1 twice and then roll your face on the keys. It’s pretty funny.
I’m going to make a larger post running down the list of movement unfriendly skills across professions that are not good for combat encounters requiring movement… Ya, know, like the way combat was designed in most parts of the game? Yes, so warhorn skills? Why?
I ran through wvw for a short time getting the dust off my ele, again, and wow, I’m sincerely surprised that the skills on this elite weapon passed inspection… Warhorn skills are soooooooooooo slooooooooow and do not match the freedom of movement combat design this game was built on…
How are players supposed to support their team with these skills while zipping around? They can’t.
We really want to hit stuff in front and around us, not leave whatever effect in the dust behind, so can we please speed these skills up like 10x faster? Can we have effects project in front and around better? Please?
Edit- These skills are even worse than a bunch of other ele skills. It’s really not good. It doesn’t feel good. It’s not fun….
I have a really super awesome great idea! Speed up skills (on lots of weapons across professions) and reduce damage in exchange for having sped up skills, but please speed up skills!
Thank you!
Edit 2- Oh, and the “flatus being expelled” sound… Transmuted into Howler thinking it may have been the horn I was using… nope.
I told Karl during the beta testing that the Warhorn animation speed for the skills were actually slower than the player moving. To tell the truth however, even if they were faster I wouldn’t equip one. Also they don’t care, it will soon be a year and they will have another expansion to sell.
Tired of having to work hard pulling of complex combo on an elementalist class you’ve learned to master only to end up feeling completely worthless against someone who just seems to randomly press keys?
Then just take the take the Guardian metabattle build for a meditrapper, get on a point and roll your face on the keyboard.
You can find it here:
metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Meditrapper
In my first ever match on a Dragon Hunter I won a 2v1 and 1-shot someone else while being invulnerable, I also never died with an offensive amulet. And I didn’t even read the trait lines, I don’t even know what the bow skills do except that bow 5 is kinda like a meteor shower that hit hard at the end.
Congratulation to the balance team, and I’m serious: I realized finally that I’m actually having fun again! I guess I’m not the only one having so much fun now as well, since in most match I play I’m also paired with 1 or 2 other guardians.
One thing bothering me however, I feel I have to apologize to every elementalist when I kill them, because I used to play one. I’m hoping to forget about that class soon and move on like many people already did (I was late to the party being gone 6 months). It’s also very funny sometimes how quick they die and you can make new friends when you engage in socializing with them and tell them you used to be a sad elementalist as well (when they are down).
To conclude, if you can read between the lines, I would like to say that if there was one thing left holding your community together, it’s that most of us are on the same page and share similar views in regards to class balance.
It’s hard to know what is Anet intent with spvp, but whatever they are doing they are not bringing the game mode in the right direction.
It’s not like they don’t know, people here have been repeating the same kitten for 2 years.
Every time I play spvp I come out with the feeling that the team responsible for the skill balance just doesn’t not understand their own game mechanics.
Balancing is important, but you should not achieve balancing by nerfing numbers without taking into consideration the negative effect it will have on the gameplay.
The problem with Anet’s nerfs on the elementalist class isn’t about damage or healing, it’s that they made the class clunky, without variety, slow and uninteresting to play.
I don’t think Karl understands the combo-dynamics of the attunements and elements system and I think he proved it by designing an elite profession that that is in complete conflict with the base arcane system of the class thus creating serious balance breaking problems.
The reason things are so bad right now is that they ignore the beta feedback on Tempest.
I don’t want to create another qq post, nor do I want to go into the details of why I think anet’s latest patch is bad for the health of PvP — other people have done that with a lot of elaboration already. All I want is to say that with over 1800 PvP matches under my belt, and playing all the classes after every major patch — not all of them as much as others, but enough to understand them intricately so I can counter them — I just personally feel that the state of PvP is now worse than it has ever been for the past 2+ years. I played since launch, but I didn’t get into PvP until early 2014.
Build diversity and viability is gone, and what we’re left with is a game where so much is going on with passives and so many professions deal extraordinary amounts of damage with little input required that it simply isn’t enjoyable anymore.
I want to just make my opinion heard. I know it doesn’t matter and I know a lot of you won’t agree. But to anet money talks, and I’m taking a break from PvP until next quarterly patch. That means my likelihood of gem purchases until then is significantly reduced.
Good luck to everyone that stays on board o7
I agree with you and I’m sure their own numbers will show a steady decline of players in the coming weeks.
There is no point trying to convince people that DH is overpowered. People do not understand that damage should be proportional to how easy or difficult it is to play a class.
The simple fact that in most games there is more DH than any other classes proves it. It’s the easiest and most rewarding class to play.
Is the management at Anet doing something to solve the problem? The pvp team shouldn’t have to come here and say it’s not their fault that the elementalist class balance is kitten. Players just want fixes and build variety, not excuses.
A solution takes 10 minutes to implement:
- bring celestial back
- unnerf CD trait and lava font for pvp
- unnerf the fire line nerfs
Instead of all this useless talk about how broken the class is just revert us back to a meta that worked and provided variety.