Guild Wars 2

Yeah the long cooldown is what balances it + the fact only bad players stand in it full duration.

nerva.7940:

im running with spectral wall instead of well of suffering, i prefer it for the instant 10 stacks of vuln, not to mention the prot. any reason to pick the well instead?

I find wells melt bad players but against good players wells are not very useful good players move out of them fast. Im with you on not using wells much these days. I like spectral wall just fine but only when Im running a full spectral build else it does not last very long to justify the utility slot.

Normally you get plenty of people doing pvp just by having it be fun.

Really need deathmatch or a tie in for PvE chars. MMO players like developing chars and have them do PvP for rewards even if minor…. GW1 had at least a little reason to do PvP like RA, you could get z-keys that you could sell or get gear from.

nerva.7940:

they need to get on their stuff man, this thief garbage is killing the community. regardless of tourney balance.

Aye, also thiefs are still strong in tpvp not like they become weak against good players just takes some reaction on the thiefs part if burst fails at a kill.

Condition necros really dont complain much really no reason to.

Minions master necros complain as they should.

Power necros complain time to time but its not terrible.

I think for WvW Necro is solid, you can kill mobs to always have 100% lifeforce between fights.

Also DS main trait line was fixed it actually adds 30% lifeforce that was a large bug fix.

I think complaints from necros going up has to due with players getting to level 80 the last few weeks and finding out the builds they got their with and enjoyed are not viable. Minion builds for example just dont work if you want to do ‘end game’ content, alot of people made necros because they like the minion concept its been around for a long time D&D era.

Very confusing why minions are sooooo bad, look at all the utilties and traits dedicated for minions its a large portion of the class thats broken not a little bit but alot. Im not a minion master type player but I can really understand why someone would be mad at how bad MM is.

Heck we have two automatic traits in our toughness line that relate to minions, and multiple master level triats minion related even an 1 of our elites is a minion out of 3 elite choices. This class has nearly as many minion related traits as DS traits.

The necro community imo has tried to be helpful more then any other class forum to Anet, alot of work went into testing and tracking down bugs on the community side. The whole DS main trait line thing for example, necros tested the kitten out of that wasting hours and hours of time trying to help the class and the game.

joshisanonymous.5270:

FASTCAR.7831:

Played 20 years of MMOs starting with UO, Everquest and DAOC…and all the rest.
Played a necro on any game that let me.By far, this is the worst necro in any game…ever.

A bit of hyperbole in your title, perhaps? Did you seriously play a necro in DAoC specifically for RvR and then come to the conclusion that they’re “by far” better than necros in GW2? That, well, I don’t even know what to say… seriously? Necros were powerleveling bots in that game. Almost everything about them was broke for RvR. You couldn’t even ride in boats when NF came out for kitten’s sake!

Maybe he played a bonedancer not called a necro but still very necro like and fun in RvR. You have to admit Necros were soooooo good at pve the weakness in RvR was not an issue because you could powerlevel so anything so fast with a Necro.

If you are removing minions as an option you want a Well build or spectral build.

For wells builds faster recharge on wells, well of blood as a heal (or feast), x3 wells as utilities its a good starting point lich if you really hate golum. I trade out one well for spectral walk in WvW because i tend to roam and like the speed boost.

http://www.intothemists.com/calc/index.php?build=;0_-7c;1IFJ0D4gJVJ0;9;4T-JJ-19B;113-27;24-F0U;1tZIDtZID6gS

I have kind of moved away from wells lately in favor of other power builds but still think its a very solid starting point for a tanky power build. My rune choice might seem strange but a little crit and extra damage goes along way, you are already very tanky. Dagger over axe is you like axe is lacking atm.

Rezz.8019:

Need a good rating system to atract more players before the game dies.

This is a must, I actually went back to WoW after almost a year of not playing. All GW2 did was get me wanted to play real ranked games where skill and teamwork matters.

I actually run a power build because I find condition spam very boring. What I dont understand is dagger offhand I have tried it in power builds…. its not optimal, seems like a pick to look cool nothing more.

Warhorn or focus adds more imo. When im running a more glassy build I tend to warhorn offhand for lockdown burst combos, balanced I got with focus. I just dont see dagger offhands benefits in a power build vs the other two options.

Yeah, in a game with no dedicated healer they made combos that are instant death faster then anything I have ever seen.

The only reason you dont see these deadly combos all the time is because the PvP player base is so small and serious pvpers that min/max types already left the game. There are just a handful of good players the rest of the population are average or below farmers not really good at all.

Also you dont need a macro for this, you can do it manual with very little testing, or you can get a mouse that you can program. Not sure if a mouse you can program is against the EoA no way for Anet to legally tell if someone is using a mouse like that regardless.

Well a thief can still get a full combo rotation off without chill doing anything. It has little affect on a decent thief as they will stealth and move away if the first combo does not kill a target anyway.

It has little affect on a burst glass thief but does slow down a balanced or condition based thief.

You will just get necros here telling you to L2P because they have not tried other classes. The few that Tpvp are just rez sig bots /shrug

I kind of like how the necro plays in this game…. however I hated necro type classes in all other games. I could see why you would not like necro in this game its plays nothing like they typical MMO necro.

For power builds you might want longer condition duration for things like vuln.

Condition damage builds already have optimal condition duration with master traits that add 33% duration and a minor that add 20% duration to bleeds and can get great rune sets that add +15% duration to bleeds even 30% to bleed duration.

You should stack condition damage you have the rabid set, undead runes give a nice boost to condition damage due to decent toughness. Running a 30/30/10 build you already have an extra 30% duration on conditions that most condition builds do not have.

Its faceroll easy and very strong like Thief.

mjharrison.3209:

1) remove downed state
2) buff HP across the board by 30%
3) fixed.

/agree 100%

Jjaja.7218:

Xom.9264:

Strong post, the first few lines tells me you have played games with real meta perhaps with ranking where people could not really be carried like this farm based system. I main a necro pug 100% of the time also, the carried necros I have seen are not impressive they are just rez sig bots. The necros that pug alot (not many) are actually good.

Perhaps the OP is good no idea but I just cant respect based on QPs, if its not rated matches its no indication of skill.

I find it hard to accept that I’m “carried” since the nerfs people are asking for on Necromancers (i.e. hybrid well build) is predicated on the build I introduced into the meta. Regarding resurrection signets… you can blame Powerr for starting that one. Necromancers are not underpowered by any stretch; although, they could use bug fixes and tweaks. Remember though, lack of build diversity IS NOT synonymous with imbalance.

Balance should always be done from the top to the bottom. Your experiences in PuGs or hot-joins should be disregarded because it does not always represent the meta or the full potential of any profession composition. Top players will always present the full potential of a profession (it’s what makes them top players) and balance should be based off that. I don’t care if a half-decent Mesmer is able to beat a similarly half-decent Necromancer every single time; it’s a totally different scenario at the top.

You misunderstand me, I did say anything about Necro balance.

I said you are not a top player there are no top players only people that play too much. Farm based systems inflate egos, skill based ladder systems that cant be farmed show who the real pvpers are and meta develops. I’m back to playing WoW a few hours a week and am a actual top player in a rated systems with thousands and thousands of players and teams a huge pool. I dont see the same names over and over and over again until at the highest top 1%. In GW2 tpvp I see the same people over and over the player pool is small as kitten….

Why is the pvp pool so small, has alot to do with one game mode and no rated system. You’re not a top pvper you are the leftovers other then a few people the top players gave up on the game already until rated team/guild system is added.

Thanks

The combat and controls are top notch.

Everything is total kitten.

Shukran.4851:

1- lock weapons, trait, utilities.
2- run a ladder
3- look how meta evolve in high ladder matches
4- balance
5- …
6- profit

Someone that understands whats needed…. I wonder if Anet understands this, they have to perhaps there is a reason for avoiding a ladder system. Maybe the ‘top’ pvpers told them they like the farm based systems and Anet is listening to those bad farmers instead of collected data and looking at other MMO pvp models that worked well….. like the GvG model in GW1 and WoW arena model.

Who knows.

Yeah ended in my death on a few close fights. Annoying if you dont have a movement or tele skill up as a necro you only have one of those so its kind of gamebreaking for someclasses.

You said it yourself Blueprint…. Necros are there more for the Rez signet then anything, yes its very strong combined with the already very hard to kill bunkers in the game.

Personally I would like to see rez sigs all removed it takes away from gameplay does not add to it…. they are far to strong and becoming a must have on some maps.

What a joke farm based system for PvP Anet has made…. this system might have worked back in the days of DAoC, early WoW but the MMO pvp community has evolved we expect rated games and a ladder system that you only climb with wins and you drop with loses.

Right now you have no lifers that are not even good farming likes its a full time job….

MTG is 1v1 each match the tournament system works for it on multiple levels also placing in a tournament rewards packs you can open and use for trading or building other decks. Not really the same thing but I see your point.

Yeah something might seem good when you are getting carried by a voice chat team, tried them all. While its a fun change its not even close to optimal just learn a viable melee burst class and change chars when you want to play that way. You will be doing yourself and your team a favor learning a new class that does better in that role.

I do think there are decent necro builds not full conditions, dagger/warhorn or focus makes more sense to me then double dagger. d/d seems like a choice of someone just trying to look cool.

Anyway real test…. pug tpvp for a few days with a build you will quickly develop an understanding of what the good builds are for which classes.

Zenith.7301:

Xom.9264:

Sprawl.3891:

This is quite funny.

100b – l2dodge noob
thief spam – l2dodge opener noob
mesmer shatter – omg OP if u dont dodge u die!!!!

Yes melee in MMO’s is popular and always have a large number of people that feel they should kill everything all the time.

All three classes need damage nerfs just like bunkers need defensive nerfs.

Not in PvE mesmers don’t. Play a mesmer in PvE where your illusions get killed the moment they come out from mob autoattacks and get steamrolled by mobs whose hp you can only take 1/7 out of with a full shatter.

You’ll find these mesmer glass cannons are not so good then, and then guardians and eles and warriors with better sustained damage and survivability blow everything else out of the water in PvE.

They need to do PvE/PvP skill splits.

I have a mesmer in pve its leveling very well and easy I will never understand or agree with mesmers that claim they are weak in pve….. My main is a necro mesmer is no harder to level and in alot of cases better. That said I dont glass cannon on my mes for pve… dont know why anyone would do that.

Perhaps that is why some mesmers think its a L2P issue and dont see how strong the class is. They are predictable and good players handle them.

Dont be predictable the class has a huge edge against the majority of classes and builds you will win.

Lordryux.9785:

i dont see how we are OP i really think thats a L2p issue right thier mesmer is easy to counter if u take the time and play it urself to an extent of knowing a bit about the class. but sure let them think that and thief hitting rediculous amount of damage with basic attacking isnt OP yea right or warrior hitting 38k blade trails sure that isnt OP at all ! lol

Reality check Mesmers. We are not easy to counter. If we lose to anything other then a good thief that got us with our pants down we kittened up. (or a good ele)

Dont type its a L2P issues mesmer is a top of the food chain class, if you are getting killed by alot other classes alot you are just not very good.

The cries of crazy burst are justified by every class other then Thief and Warrior…. however it seems to be Thiefs and warriors crying the most /shrug.

Burst needs to be toned down and not just mesmers.

I play Necro and Mes the most.

A Necro should never beat a Mes 1 v 1 if a Mes dies he is bad. Nothing more to say then that.

However most mesmers are used to instantly killing people and dont know how to handle players that find them quickly.

Dont panic, let the clones do their damage save dodges for the shatters or perhaps zerker. Look for the real mes clones do not move backwards/sideways or dodge they stand in one spot or move towards you. Hit ctr+t when you find the real mes even 1 v 1 it helps pick up the mes faster and if a teamate shows up your work in finding the real mes and targeting them is huge. If the target goes away he just used a stealth like skill and you will need to refind him.

Even if you do everything right it comes down to the mes making mistakes thats the only way you will beat them.

Burst classes are much better for killing a mes quickly when you get good at spotting the mes. I hardly play thief but just destroy memsers because i play a mes I can spot the real one fast…

listen to Xil thats a good pve build.

Wells are the go to for me in group fights most the time. Yes they do fail against smart players in tpvp for power builds Spectral Walk is always on my bar, others I change out alot are BiP, Epidemic, corrupt, rez sig, and Spectral Grasp (like having another rupt but its buggy). Sometimes I run 3x spectral skills for dueling, walk, wall, grasp.

Minions are also a good choice or a mix with minions for power builds.

Really are no game changers must haves for power builds like for condition builds, rez sig is great and corrupt boon is still good in a power build, BiP is a great choice for power but not a must.

XiL.4318:

Jjaja.7218:

Hello! I’m Jjaja, I play Necromancer for a top five North American team (Jesus Beat Us Once; JBUO) and at the time of this posting I have around 376 qualifying points. Hopefully, these “credentials” lend some credibility to what I’m about to say. This is all strictly from my experience in tPvP.

Profession Balance: (Obviously every profession could use bug fixes and tweaks)
Guardian: Very Strong
Elementalist: Strong
Thief: Slightly Strong
Mesmer: Balanced
Necromancer: Balanced
Ranger: Balanced
Warrior: Slightly Weak
Engineer: Weak

Profession Representation: (There isn’t a profession we never see)
Guardian: Very High
Elementalist: Very High
Mesmer: High
Thief: Medium High
Necromancer: Medium High
Ranger: Medium
Warrior: Medium
Engineer: Medium Low

Weapon Swap Change:
Really hurts classes with no built in swiftness on their weapon sets. Otherwise, this is a good change. Why? It evens the playing field for professions who don’t have multiple viable weapon sets. It should be kept until all (or the majority) of the weapon sets are viable amongst all professions.

Paid Ticket Entry:
Needs to be lowered. It seriously reduces the competitive capacity of paids if some teams or players have to do four hours of frees just to do one paid. I suggest lowering the requirement from 5 to 3.

I believe you have been carried for so long by fantastic teamates that the meta from your perspective is shaded with bias and mastery stagnation. (its when you stop adjusting to chase the meta)

So from your perspective I agree with you. But from my perspective, your ratings are a bit off. Populations seem similar.

And Necro most certainly is a hard carry support in need of diversivfication and a complete overhaul of the Minion AI. Necro is far too complicated for almost no pay off in competitive ability. Without a strong team, necro is simply not competive, and even then, can be replaced by stronger classes that are easier to play.

You are probably better than I am at Necro with your team. But if you spent some time with PuGs your perspective would shatter. Being carried by a fantastic team focuses your perspective into a fragile space where success has become an assumption and your drive to chase the meta for further mastery is nearly gone. Because clearly with so much success you have won the game. Right?

But that just means someone else will control the meta, since you no longer want to.

And before you get huffy, there are a thousand studies on the effects of success on cognitive functions. So congrats on all the QPs but science says your success is a crutch and taints your perspective with bias.

Strong post, the first few lines tells me you have played games with real meta perhaps with ranking where people could not really be carried like this farm based system. I main a necro pug 100% of the time also, the carried necros I have seen are not impressive they are just rez sig bots. The necros that pug alot (not many) are actually good.

Perhaps the OP is good no idea but I just cant respect based on QPs, if its not rated matches its no indication of skill.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

Xom.9264:

Getting rid of downstate rally of ALL players from one kill would go a long way to fixing this games pvp.

They cant get rid of it the game is designed to be arround that. If they remove that they would have to nerf the entire game like classes not doing burst and some not being that tanky. Its like when people ask for gvgs… they are not going to work here AOE is too strong it would be literally a clusterf——.

Disagree strongly, rally as it stands now is ruining the game. They made the correct change lowering downstate HP but backed off on it because of pressure from a very very very small group of whats considered for some reason top players. (dont know how a non rated pvp system can have top players but thats another topic).

Lower the downstate HP again or remove multiple rallies off one kill. It would allow for more skill based players running balanced builds to do well and less rez-sig/zerg tactics/numbers edge always coming out ahead.

Remove stealth and stability stomping lower downstate health no multiple rallies will fix alot of problems with this game.

Getting rid of downstate rally of ALL players from one kill would go a long way to fixing this games pvp.

Its a joke. If its farm based its not skill based this has been shown when WoW made the transition from farm based BG’s to skill based rated arenas very few of the top BG farmers ever became part of a top rated arena team maybe 5% the rest of the top teams were people with real skill that did not have the time to farm and be part of a team that demanded multiple hours a day for farming.

A skill based ladder system is what let good pvpers with a life shine. Win your games go up in rating, lose and go down. Zero benefit from farming/playing more.

Sprawl.3891:

This is quite funny.

100b – l2dodge noob
thief spam – l2dodge opener noob
mesmer shatter – omg OP if u dont dodge u die!!!!

Yes melee in MMO’s is popular and always have a large number of people that feel they should kill everything all the time.

All three classes need damage nerfs just like bunkers need defensive nerfs.

Agree the game has two overpowered set ups, super burst super bunker. No room for balanced play.

right now I agree with nerva, Ranger all the way good safe choice as they just got fixes so wont get toned down anytime soon.

evilapprentice.6379:

MindlessRuff.1948:

evilapprentice.6379:

MindlessRuff.1948:

evilapprentice.6379:

I’ve seen some responses along the lines of “You should just avoid KB/KD/Pull/Launch (Dodge roll, blind), or neutralize it before hand(Stability)”

If that’s the case, why does any class get stunbreakers? Why aren’t they just dodging all the stuns, or blinding their target first, or throwing stability up? All those tactics work for stuns, Anet’s attitude could have been “Well, if you get stunned, eat it, you should have dodged/been immune”.
But wait, it isn’t.

The developers realized you couldn’t possibly dodge/blind/immune every source of control removal (Stuns, fears, etc), and gave every class stunbreakers. A separate class of control removing abilities that aren’t countered by stunbreakers the same way stuns are is broken and should be fixed.

Stun breakers do work on the control abilities you mentioned at the start of the thread, you just have to wait until you hit the ground until you are able to use them.

Which is exactly my point. “You have to wait.”

You should not have to wait any amount of time before hitting a stunbreaker. Would it be fair if you have to wait Every time a warrior Frenzy->HB’d you? Or a thief BV->CnD->Steal->BS’d you?

No, It wouldnt. So why is it fair for KD/KB/Pull/Launch?

A thief can’t knock you in the air like a guardian can though, and a warrior can’t do it if he is planning to HB you.

…what does that have to do with anything? The specific mechanics aren’t in question. I’m not saying “Remove all KB/KD/Pull/Launch” from the game. I’m just saying make it so that stunbreakers break them, Just like they do stuns, at any point during the effect.

Agree CC with no activated counter is silly, stability is not a counter as it short duration and people can just wait a few seconds before chaining the combos.

The slow rangers just have not adapted to the changes good ones/good players have rolled them and are melting face. Not that its anymore overpowered then some other classes, just more faceroll high reward gameplay that the game did not need.

agree with all three.

Add in removing rally in tpvp and we are set.

Downstate is ok,

Rally is NOT ok it flat out terrible. Multiple people rally on one stomp is worst then terrible its a joke.

Yeah I think it was me you killed it was my first game playing thief. I still topped score of course. I lost that 1 v 1 because I got confused over what key to press 1 or 2 and hit the windows key instead. By the time I figured out how to bring the game back up I was dead…. I know it was my first game as thief but still thiefs are not supposed to die they need a buff or warriors need a nerf. Please fix this Anet.

Yes in a game that needs less bursty damage now rangers are like a HB war only ranged……

So you pointed out a major OP bug and get called a troll. Right bet if you pointed out a major OP bug from a class these people dont play they would be demanding fixes.

Keep up the good work Cosmic I understand you dont want ele as your main class to become fotm due to a bug.

I like my alt mes, other classes seem boring/ too easy thief war guardian ranger.

Eng might be a good choice for you also.

Its up to the devs to make 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 deathmatch content. Some people really like that kind of play others do not. The more game modes the higher the pvp population you can’t force it by messaging players already part of the pvp population they are not the issue its the people that dont like the only pvp game mode (capture/conquest) and stopped doing it that had an impact on the population.

Timewarp and portal I hear are good.

I said you bring a necro for their utilities I even talked about rez sig….. Honestly I want to see instant rez skills removed anyway. It favors poor boring gameplay bunker + roamer with rez sig. Removes alot of tactics and skill from the game, I might be biased I hate downstate concept + rallies and rez sigs…. it should only be heal up yourself or another player heals you.

Chakuna.6325:

1. Nerf/Fix/Tone-down BURST!

2. Nerf/Fix/Tone-down BUNKERS!

3. Fix/Change some of these useless, unimaginative, unbalanced Skills, Utilities and Traits we are currently stuck with.

4. Add 3v3 Arena, deathmatch.

5. ????

6. Profit!!!

You are 100% on target they do those things the pvp population will grow. They keep with massive burst and bunker style gameplay it will stay a very small pvp population.

NaturalPortman.9562:

It’s already in the game…

It’s called raid of the capricorn.

lol you’re right

Mammoth.1975:

Slan.5496:

Can someone elaborate on how the necro is being used in these lineups? And possibly link to a build? I played an engineer and a condition thief before starting on my necro. I’m having some difficulty understanding what the role is in organized pvp (conditions, boon removal, tanking, what?). My main source of experimentation atm is hotjoin and that probably doesn’t help.

Eating guardians alive from range, big aoe damage on downed players, reviving from outside enemy aoe with signet of undeath.

This build covers the essentials, the rest is up to you:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.119.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.332.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.10.0.0

Sprawl.3891:

ITT guy who only plays one class saying it’s fine without playing other classes and seeing that they do the same things, but better. MMO forum classic.

You’re just embarrassing yourself dude. No one does what a necro does. If they did, people would run that class instead. Maybe you should let us all in on the meta changing secret mr ‘I haven’t been to the hotm in months’.

There is no meta its a dead pvp population with only a handful of teams running what they are comfortable with. You only playing a single class proves this.

Over inflated ego in a non-ranked pvp system with a population lower then any pvp game I have played. There will never be a true meta with such a dead/small pvp population it will evolve way to slow.

Ranked games is also a must for a meta to develop it wont for pure farming. GW1 had a meta because it had GvG ranked play. This game will never have a meta in its current state.