Guild Wars 2

Yet warrior is not in a great spot in spvp and tpvp and necro is perhaps the worst class in the game.

HP is nothing, give me active skills to avoid damage.

Its ok in WvW as a marks builds with good blood duration. In spvp and tpvp the insane burst or other classes makes it on the weak side.

When I make builds I keep to a rule of having at least 1700 toughness as a necro anything else and you are dead from the insane burst classes.

Funny. If anything conditions need a boost.

Why have we accepted that its normal to bring 1 or 2 stun breaks for utility to have a hope? Yet people get away with zero condition removal skills… some top spvp and tpvp class builds have no utility slots used for condition removals. Yet other class bars like eles have to use 3 stun breaks as utilities else get dropped in a super burst in a few seconds lol.

Conditions are second fiddle by a long shot to direct damage… they are also easy to remove every class can build to remove them easy can even 100% shut down condition classes if they want, but people dont even come close to building that way because conditions damage is not danger.

Yet +cond+vit+toughness would be OP lol right.

+condition duration does not kill a player in 2 seconds it adds to steady dps and if people actually needed to use condition removals it could be removed before the + duration even did anything.

I lay down a 10 second bleed I have +100% duration so the bleed would last 20 seconds…. the extra duration does nothing if removed.

The shamans amulet does the same thing anyway so no idea what you people are talking about it would OP.

If you are talking DAoC style then WvW in GW2 does it closer then anygame I have seen its alot better then WAR.

However i agree Spvp and Tpvp for GW2 really does need some work. Not sure how I feel about the total isolation of PvP from WvW/PvE. I could understand it for balancing reason gear etc…. however the classes (like mes) are major unbalanced so I question the reasoning…

I think the PvP being so isolated will kill it because casuals will not do it if you cant get gear you can use outside of PvP and the PvE gear cant be used in it. Worst still for casual players is everyone is Red or Blue there is no real point in gear.

People did Random Area in GW1 for alot of reasons only a few actually grinded it… the majority were casuals that might be doing it for some Z-keys or just for a bit of fun quest etc… At least somethings you did in RA would give you income for PvE or a chance to get good pve gear from z-keys.

Anet really needs to rethink GW2 Spvp and Tpvp.

Good job necro community testing this and posting results.

It has always done that… is the elite pet after all.

lol savan, you understand that spvp and tpvp are the real pvp in this game right? There are not options in spvp and tpvp to gear like you just posted.

WvW is faceroll easy sorry to say…. man i really wish Anet would split the forums like other sites do so WvW is with pve like it belongs.

No its not.

And Hammerguard Engineer is a top class in WvW, spvp and tpvp it does not need help at all.

Tested, did not get the results you did Pan.

Try torchlight 2, made by the people that did DI and DII (most had already left before DIII work started.) games only $20 and is a great deal better then DIII

First you must have high toughness and decent or high vit. You spam AoE skills dodge randomly and hope they are really bad at the game (good thing most are).

There are no tactics vs them because its a fight that is just a spam fest. Never had a skill based fight with a thief fights over win or lose in a few seconds.

What does help is wells and strong power based marks, its a hard fight for condition spec.

A good thief will kill you without much effort no matter what anyone tells you the rendering bug is gamebreaking have the same issues with decent mesmers.

Yeah true story…. use lich to for maybe 1/4 of its duration…. its a stomping tool for me when I need stability.

I had two engineers down last night and could not finish them off kept getting knocked around had to lich form to stomp them lol.

The DS concept was great I liked the originality…. kitten shame the did not finish the project of the necro class in time for release.

Yes pointless long cast times, really really really really hate the cast times on staff marks. The cast times are so long on lich skills people dont even use them other then the pets…..and just spam 1.

This tread needs to be sticky.

Wonder if devs are getting mad at the necro players for finding all these bugs….

Aye it does work spectral wall is a good test as is spectral walk. I have been testing everything related to necro because so much is broken like an entire trait line not giving the boost to DS as stated.

I find pure conditions builds to be less then optimal. A little power in a condition build gives you better returns (traits force it actually).

The real issue is Spvp and Tpvp you can not get optimal condition damage and power for a hybrid build, due to limited choices in amulets. As you should know amulets are how you get stats in spvp and tpvp. Have to question your bold statement that necros dont know how to build here… really starting to get sick of you WvW/PvE heros spouting off idiocy without any real understanding of Spvp and Tpvp class balance.

So that in mind, the necros condition trait line is bad. (or gear choice in spvp/tpvp is too limited) Look at it how you want but other classes do not have these issues as badly as necros do.

Its not ‘bugged’ just more of the same terrible class design for the necro. It works for power builds, conditions do not benefit at all from it.

Why Anet spent so little thought into the necro I have no idea when you see other classes well done trait lines that makes sense (mesmer and engineer) its really some bullkitten.

I understand wanting a new class created by a company like mesmer to be well done….. but to kitten on a RPG and MMO staple class like Necromancer is bullkitten even if it tends to be an underplayed class in most games. If anything should of spent less time making the thief into god mode, add stealth add daggers and its going to be a popular class in anygame.

Woops guess i got side tracked… yeah the trait works I tested it.

True but how you spec can make one better then the other by a fair margin. DS does get a boost from Vit so I can see a DS build going the vit path.

As Ascii pointed out you can double dip toughness. Thats what I do, Deadly Str adds 5% to power giving +100 power and rune of undead gives +100 condition damage solid boosts.

The real problem is you actually do not have a choice of vit for some builds due to gear stats in pve/wvw. There is no Power + Vit + Crit options. So you are stuck with Knights gears that gives Power + Toughness + crit, unless you glass cannon in zerkers.

Agree 100% Berullos the other issue with axe is the number 2 skills recharge rate… Its too long leaving towards massive ‘down time’ in pvp while you just hit with number one attack (its terrible) and are waiting for the weapon swap back to staff or number two to pop back up.

I think if people are just emotional attached to Axe and are not focused on the numbers and testing. I dont know what it was in beta I know what it is now… perhaps the worst weapon out of anyclass any spec in the game. Even our condition weapon does better then the axe in it role as a power weapon lol.

The build I listed was my WvW build, regardless anything with 2200 + power is a power build I would say. All my builds have Toughness of at least 1500 and thats what i consider my glass cannon build. Im normally at 1700 to 2000 toughness.

In Spvp I do rune of ogre so am at 2300+ power at about 1800 toughness 8% crit. Scepter does more damage then Axe and thats with ZERO condition damage.

I honestly dont know if you are trolling at this point. I did not want to confuse the topic so never talked about my testing with condition damage added in. My tests were done with zero condition damage scepter won in a pure power build.

Now regarding crit rate and why scepter scales just as well depending on what the target is and timefram of damage I wont even get into it.

Just know im right if you do more testing at even 40% crit rate 2200 power you will see scepter does more damage. If we get into real pvp action scepter major league pulls ahead due to range and targets not dying as fast.

Did you actually just say there is no power build that does not use high crit?

Stop making sweeping statements when you only play WvW that’s just one form of ‘pvp’. WvW is not a true test of a class or skills there are way to many factors level gear numbers more open space plenty of mobs to kill and always be 100% lifeforce etc.. The ability to run at a whim.

Spvp and tpvp players hold everthing to a standard that is based around everyone having the same quality gear and being the same actual level all skills.

People that necro as power in spvp and tpvp (rare but some do) tend to use soldiers because if you dont stack defense and have decent health you will get insta killed by classes better at burst.

Ill go right back to my original statement Scepter is better then axe in a power build its stays better up to 50% crit but the margin is very close in the 40% crit range.

I have not even gotten deep into the topic of some condition splash… a little condition damage really goes a long way you dont need to stack it and a few hundred condition damage really helps marks and puts scepter wayyyyy ahread in damage then axe in a power build. I consider a power build around 2k power.

Also your scepter in pve is going to have good condition splash and if you spec deep into spite you are a picking up 50-100…. add in rune of undeath and you are at 300+ condition damage .

On a side not im not making these claims because I like scepter… I dont like the weapon at all I like the looks and concept of axe… its just not as good as scepter in a power build.

What a run most the time in WvW because that seems to be your focus… http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBmWDbESrSPTTcjhPRI94ZXDaTK+24gU8edB;TsAA1Cooay0koJbTumkNtKYUw+DA

If not that I run 30/0/20/20/0 or 20/10/20/20 all the same concept powered up wells and marks with a good off weapons scepter fills the role better then axe and dagger, another snare more damage and bleeds and poison on top of it. Axe is useless after the 2 and 3 skills are used and Im waiting for staff to comeback up. (dagger I use at times due to its decent damage for a necro)

I use staff the most in my power builds.

Scepter the most in my condition builds.

/shrug

I have wondered about this bug…. time to time I see people I down change to a jagged and try to kill it. I thought they were stupid and the bug was a myth, but perhaps it worked for them once thats why the continue to try it.

I am happy to see people trying it out however thats not how you test something….

I use steady and normal weapons for each sample size is at least 50 times for each weapon.

Very key here the baseline test was at 1800 power No crit No traits with steady weapons. Then at 2200 power No crit No traits (results axe gained a little ground but was still behind)

Then i did No crit No Traits with 1800 power and normal weapons. Then at 2200 hundred power No crit No traits. These is the better test with normal weapons I did it 50 times with each weapon at both power levels.

Now when I added traits it was for a real pvp setting test for the build I wanted to test including my offhand. So target the weak focus offhand I did have chill, vuln, bleed, crip and poison on the target when I did scepters Feast.

Back on topic do a larger sample size use soldiers amulet to remove the high crit… you will get the same findings I did specter kills the target faster.

Take crit out of the picture to start if you test with crit you must do hundreds of tests then average out the results…

P.S. I know you are a wvw only player but power builds for necros in spvp/tpvp use soldiers amulet crit rate is not that high…. Also you are wrong back down your statements are going to get stomped if you continue.

Ok in blood I would recommend changing to creating a mark on dodge and for master wells recharge 20% faster. Use wells as utilities at least well of suffering.

Knights gear is a power set not so much conditions…. however runes of the undead give you a nice little boost to condition damage making a power build with marks solid.

Hum, have not seen this yet but there are a few bugs with necro that dont happen all the time.

I like focus alot in spvp and tpvp. In WvW I warhorn for the speed boost

Here i thought I was the only person that runs target the weak in a power build.

Works wonders with wells. I still used wells in wvw because players are so bad works ok in spvp too.

I changed my burst combo to something even faster, Ill make a vid someday. I play 90% of the time a tanky build tho… you die to fast with anything else if the combo fails.

Thiefs, mesmers and warriors do burst better regardless.

Yes the rune procs are unreal…. I was on my necro in WvW actually winning a fight against a good ele had him to about 1k health I was at around 8k when BOOM im instantly downed….

The kittening rune proc did a little over 7k damage to me…. I have full knights gear exotic so no glass cannon by a longshot.

Im ok with not having healers in GW2…. not ok with GW2 having faster fights high burst then any MMO I have ever played and those had healers….

How the is this ever going to be a skill based game with thiefs and mesmers faceroll city classes kittening up balance?

Its random Mazra, when it happens you really kittening notice it because it takes a solid 10 seconds after the little kitten are dead to get out of combat.

I notice it everytime because I run off hand warhorn and spectral walk for near 100% swiftness and move alot solo in WvW. They lock you into combat, the movement speed is a huge thing for me running solo in WvW.

I also clearly remember the first time it happened when I was leveling up at like level 15 I thought it was lag…. nope happened many times after that.

I dont know if you level to 80 with the trait but i did so I seen it happen alot.

For the record I was not one of the people saying it rallied people in pvp… never seen that happen once.

Warrior is a safe bet to roll, Anet always balances around the war as a benchmark, alot of games do.

Already there are planed nerfs to classes that are outperforming the war by a bit.

I have to laugh at the person saying warriors are the worst class in pvp…. forget the necro comparison….. really a ranger is better then a war right now? Give me a break…

I have a buddy war that we roam with uses longbow + rifle its amazing. Longbow number 5 is outstanding in combo with killshot. Nothing gets away with him in the group.

However killshot is so kitten easy to see coming, it could be the training animation teaching new players what to dodge.

As a necro, easy to win against classes.

1. Necros, I actually lost my first 1 v 1 fight against a necro today… got him back the second go around but for the most part I find necros really easy (know all the skills animations builds etc.)
2. Warriors, some are hard fights some not so much comes down to did they bring stuns knockdowns some form of control or not… the ones that do have the best shot at getting me.
3. Guardians bunker spec, ill melt them down eventually offensive specs guardians with good control and burst can be a pain tho.
4. Ranger & Ele most are easy to kill some eles and rangers are very hard fights but on average they are not scary ele is just annoying to kill and can just get away if they want at any time regardless.
5. Thief & Mesmer, well its my opinion that a mesmer should never lose ever to a necro still I have had good close fights with them. Thief I have no respect for I have never said to myself win or lose ‘wow that was a good fight’ against a thief. All I do is spam AoEs randomly dodge against this kitten class and hope they are bad like most thiefs, sometimes they die due to my random spamming something i cant even.. the good ones will kill me and I have zero hope of stopping it no matter what i spec or how high I stack defense and health. (no shield bash and thier fear is better then ours….. 300% better)

Edit not in your forum to troll making a Warrior for WvW because the only thing better then having one weak level 80 class is having two of them. I actually was going to make thief my alt but I was disgusted by how easy it was in spvp stopped leveling him.

Come on how can anyone not think Thiefs (and Mesmers) need major balancing.

Warriors HB can actually be avoided and if you eat it you might die but when I do live past it I can still manage and drop the war or get away because you can SEE the kittening war. You never see the thief but for a second or two then he is gone and drops you a few seconds later if you are not already dead because steal +3 seconds of fear GG.

Thief is so godly powerful due to super steath in this game. I played stealth classes that actually had draw backs in DAoC, even WoW stun lock city rogue took a little skill.

I would say never has a class needed a nerf more then thief but Anet outdid themselves with the Mesmer.

I could not agree more coro, not having a viable method of stability is game breaking for necros. Not just for staying on a point but for stomping and rezzing, a very key part of higher level play. Its getting harder and harder as a necro stomping in Tpvp
seeing improvements in players skill levels and builds people are protecting downed players and rezzing them fast. I kept downing a glass thief today at a GY zerg fight could never stomp him due to a guardian and eng (bunkers) knocking me all over the place they rezed him 4 times and eventually rolled us.

What really had me raging is I could not rez my own teamates even once I get knocked a mile away then they get stomped… my fear is on much longer cooldown then the spam knockbacks, downs and stuns. Dont get me starting on thiefs fear steal 3 seconds lol.

And 30 points in the DS tree is worst then not having stability imo the whole DS is not viable with the only good necro build in tpvp… conditions.

Just to put a little reality into things.

This is a gear issue very few people have full exotics set. If you have it you will crush people in WvW, I did fairly well with my basic 80 set then I got all my exotics one night.

Came back to WvW and was 1v2 1v3 effortlessly my skill level did not go up in one night it was all gear. Full kights gear with exotics knights weapons and rings/etc.. with runes of undeath for some condition splash.

You can tell the people that are max level with exotic gear because the fights are more like you would have in spvp or tpvp, anyone not level 80 in at least good rare gear is a free kill for anyclass in exotics.

I did not say its better because of the 1 skill. I said make a power build use axe and scepter 1-3 skills as you see fit. Scepter does more damage.

Yes thats including Ghastly Claws.

Yes at around 50-55% crit axe starts to pull ahead. However 50-55% crit is not viable for a necro in spvp or tpvp. Also scepter pulls ahead of axe again with high crit if you have around 200-300 condition damage splash.

30/25/x/x/x power build scepter out shines axe in a major way.

Min/maxer will test it or already have with control steady pvp weapons and with normal weapons.

What are you talking about scepter does not scale with precision it scales the same as the axe… have you even tested it? There is a small window with high crit and gastly claws that axe passes scepter however add some condition damage like 200-300 and scepter is back on top. Go with a 30/25/x/x/x build its it wayyyy on top.

Now in response to your jab at me saying I should play a thief if I want to spam. You are a wvw hero that is mistaking in thinking he is good at pvp, with full exotic gear any idiot can rule in wvw. I run full knights exotic and faceroll over the undergeared people in wvw 2 v 1 3 v 1 even a 6 v 1 against a melee guild that stood in my wells, give people even gear and basic skill levels like you see in spvp and tpvp and you wont be doing that.

Remove it, they keep you in combat even after they die. They do zero damage its just another source of lag.

Yeah that build will do fine in spvp and pve, mobs and low skill players tend to stand in the wells.

Very close to what I run as my power build.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW4djQaV6ZaeaM8JApHPfN2TK+ecIF5qLA;TsAA1CtoQygkAJLSOkkItKYUw+DA

A fun option is dropping well of power for blood is power if facing a team with little conditions.

side note: did you play a warlock on azgalor?

Thanks for taking the time putting it together.

I would add stability in a utility slot to the list so, the class really needs it to be a contender

Ill have to test that I swear I have had low health low DS and been one shot in the past.

Maybe not I do use DS as a buffer vs thiefs not that it matters unless they are really bad they will kill me anyway or just go away for 20 seconds and comeback and kill me.

Another bug add it to the list.

Yes and the scepters 3rd attack in the number 1 chain also hits harder.

Can’t figure out why A-net made axe so bad. Really cant figure out why some necros think the axe is anything other then terrible…. do people actually test things vs other options?

No stability is a massive downfall of the class.

Number 1 reason I believe it will never be a good choice for tpvp.

Knights gear is better, but any build and gear works in pve so its pointless to debate.

I use axe in pve at times, btw 25 spite for the extra damage based on conditions works better. You always have 4-5 conditions on the target so 8-10% more damage. I have even went 30/30/10/0/0 for the weakness on crit in a pve build.

Anything works in pve regardless even axe, but if you want gold rewards for sure.

Go dagger with knights gear and wells.

You are all missing what he is saying.

The necro is boring once you had a taste for other classes active skills. I chose necro because reading forums even dev comments it was supposed to be the hardest to master. Its not a faceroll class but its not a class that requires the skill of a good ele or eng.

Everything tying into the boring weak DS and lifeforce gain is really limiting the class.

Look at spectral armor and compare it to what an ele gets. Stability and protection we get a short protection and lifeforce gain…. Stability > lifeforce gain.

Other classed and respond and react to whats happening with use of key skills Necro response is always ‘tank it’ gettign knocked all over the node because of a good eng… Well too bad you dont have stability and you only have two dodges with no energy regen boost mechanic.

@ Tanman,

Faceplam right back at you go the the mists stack power and test the damage of scepter vs axe, use the three attacks for each weapon as you see fit watch what weapons dropped the targets faster. Scepter is higher so whatever you ‘think’ scepter is ‘based on’ the truth is axe is so bad as a power weapon it gets outdone but the ‘condition weapon’.

I like many necros thought axe was fine because i did fine with my power well build… Nope scepter is better it turns out. I wish I did more testing before i got my exotic axe…

Plague form is weak its just a bunker skill. Not an instant win like group quickness.

“Mesmers are weak”

For a power build scepter does more damage then axe.

Not that scepter does good damage in a power build but axe damage is that bad.

If you have 200 or so splash condition damage scepter really pulls ahead over the axe in damage.

With very high crit rate 55% of so axe does start to pull ahead of scepter in a power build.

Why is axe so terrible?