Guild Wars 2

Hey Chaos, just let you know I got done testing a couple of burst shatter builds. Found out that Dom/Duel/Chron does more damage than Dom/Duel/Illusions (and obviously PU shatter as well). The extra attack from izerker seems to beat out Compounding Power with Master of fragmentation. I was not surprised at all that this build was good, its beastly. Ran Time Catches Up over Delayed Reactions as I feel like the later is more for lockdown builds. I also ran Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma. The chronophantasma is what causes this build to do more damage than other bust shatter builds. However these two traits synergize very well, especially with continuum shift, for excellent illusion production.

I also tested Dom/Illusions/Chrono to see how far I could get cool downs. In illusions I ran Persistance of memory, maim the disillusioned, and master of fragmentation. In domination I used imagined burden. Chronomancer traits were the same as the previous build. I found that alacrity, imagined burden, illusionist Celerity, and Master of Misdirection synergized very well. The more you shatter, the faster your cool downs, the more you can shatter, etc. Found that you could take out the indestructible golem in heart of the mists faster that other videos I have found on youtube or posted. The cool down is insane. However, the problem with this build is that it seams to lack the defensive setup Dom/Duel/Chron offers. In order to get the most out of alacrity and all the traits mentioned, it seams you have to stay with great sword because if you weapon swap you have to deal with the swapping cool down. However, if you don’t swap, you don’t have a defensive skill like the prestige when you need it. In the end, doing damage on a golem is not the same as actual pvp matches. I would also like to point out that it could take out the indestructible golem faster. However, Dom/Duel/Chron could take out the other golems quicker. Might seem weird, but the illusion line is more for sustained damage using mind wrack. Therefore, I could see it used as a shatter build for something like pve roaming or in the maguuma jungle. However, I don’t think it will be meta or anything for pvp. You could try improved alacrity over illusionary reversion if you wanted to. However, I don’t think thats gona solve the problem.

I conclusion, I think Dom/Duel/Chron is prob going to be meta. This offers a lot more damage and utility options than PU shatter (especially with continuum shift). I think people new to the profession will find PU easier. However, I can definitely without a doubt see Dom/Duel/Chron taking over for experienced mesmers in the burst shatter department.

I have been running chrono since the beta began and these are my thoughts so far.

1. Also love that effects have been added to master of fragmentation and bountiful disillusionment. I think they are justified, especially with the long cool down of f5/continuum split. There is one thing I’m wandering and haven’t tested yet. Bountiful disillusionment says it works with continuum shift. Does this mean you actually have to click f5 again for the effects? If time runs out in continuum shift do you still get the effects? If the rift in continuum shift is destroyed before you revert back do you still get the effect?

2. It would be nice if All’s Well ends well either
A. added the condition removal when the well is first set
B. A 10% reduce recharge was added or
C. A 20% increased radius was added to wells.

Personally, if alacrity remains the same, I don’t think it needs option B. However, I think option C would be nice.

edit:
3. Seize the Moment: Still seems a little lack luster compared to the other two traits it competes with. It would be nice if it was reduced to 1 second of quickness per shatter (not illusions shattered) and they made it so the quickness would be applied to 5 allies.

4. Continuum shift with 4 illusions (counting yourself) gives 6 seconds. This seems like an excellent number. Any more and it would probably be op. However, shattering for 1 and a half seconds is completely useless. Change it so it give you 2 seconds plus 1 second per illusion shattered

No additional illusions = 3 sec
1 ill = 4 sec
2 ill = 5 sec
3 ill = 6 sec

5. Lumping tides of time hitting terrain and well of gravity into one. Both were mentioned before, both should be changed, and there is a separate thread for well of gravity.

6. Alacrity seems good. You can try builds that apply the most alacrity and cool down possible in pvp. However, in the end they don’t work like you think they do (I’ve tried). The defense is just not there to get the most out of it and it seems like alacrity works better with sustained damage. The videos on dummies are nice, but they are dummies. I would like to see actual pvp videos with this alacrity uptime and see how they do.

I think that sounds really cool and is a good addition. I’m just scared its not going to happen. Many in the past have asked for different colored bubbles in your bottom left screen so you can more easily differentiate between how many clones vs how many phantasms you have up. This has also not happened.

lol I love how people say you need evidence when they bring up l2p but you don’t need evidence for the opinion that a class is op. Anyway, I’m getting off topic, that not the reason I’m posting.

+1 to DaShi! Its 100% true that warriors, rangers and engis are the easiest classes for mesmers to kill. It seems like 90% of the nerf posts I read come from warriors or rangers. Mesmers skills work better against these two classes. The problem is, in order for warriors and rangers to get what they want (balanced or below balanced with their class), the mes automatically has to be worse than all the other classes that it doesn’t counter as easily.

I tried out Dueling/illusions/Chrono with deceptive evasion today with sword/shield and it seemed to go pretty good. This is obviously more for support.

The only problem I have been thinking about, but never came across yet is aggro. Chronophantasma and illusionary reversion make it so its almost impossible to get rid of your illusions if you need to. I could see this being a problem in certain situations if you have these traits.

Droping the time on continuum split any more will cause a lot more problems in pve than pvp. You don’t necesarily need 6 seconds to do another mind wrack shatter, and likewise you probably won’t do much more damage between that shatter and continuum shift. However, you do need 6 seconds to throw out mimic, well of recall, well of action, time warp, then well of recall ( or whatever rotation you want to use at the moment)

Ya still too early to know for sure. You get insane damage with the ability to mine wrack twice with continuum split. I also noticed that your shatter for continuum split has a good chance to scare your opponent and bait out dodges or other abilities. The problem is that as soon as you shatter with continuum, they are going to know you are going to burst or something because the time limit for the skill is not very long. This makes it so a simple dodge can ruin the whole timing so you don’t do even remotely close to the same amount of damage you would do on a dummy or even one of the npcs in heart of the mist. I believe the time given in continuum split is good. Any lower and you would not get any use out of it. Any longer and you would make the skill way to easy to use.
Only worked with wells and shield in pve and on a test dummy. It seemed remarkably smooth and everything worked a lot better than I was expecting. Don’t think any of these is op in pve for now. Never used them in pvp.

Naaa, should have but too busy with tryin to win the match. Main point was that I think it may have potential, but many do not know how to trait. It was a reaper, but they weren’t using a great sword. Same with other classes. Still too early to know for sure. However, that doesn’t mean we can’t talk about what we already know.

I got killed by a reaper at full health from range in about 3 seconds multiple times. Don’t know how they did it. Other reapers have been eh so so that I played. However, this one must have had something going.

I don’t understand why the traits the traits flow of time and improved alacrity only apply to you. They should apply to 5 allies as well.

continuum split, mimic, well of recall, well of recall, continuum shift, mimic, well of recall, well of recall —> 12 seconds of alacrity, but then you have to wait another 45 seconds to even use the skill once again.

I’m still waiting for the legendary PoI to past any judgment. There are still people going around saying HoT will have only one map added.

Adding ideas from previous posters

-First Pulse = 2 sec chill like condition, except if possible you could remove the skill cool down portion as it doesn’t match the skill. Nebula is condensing into a star

-Second Pulse = 2 sec. Perhaps the movement speed could be reduced by a larger percentage as you move closer to the center of the well. Start with 66% or so, like chill, at the perimeter (not sure how the numbers would work) and increase it as you move in. Gravity well is a star now.

-Third Pulse = Pull five targets and float for 2 seconds. It became a black hole now. You crossed the event horizon. There is no escape. Mua haha!

Everything else can remain the same or the numbers could be tweaked.
This should make it so skilled players can still get out. It also promotes the idea that its better to get out earlier before it grows more powerfull. Thanks for asking for feedback!

“How to fix PU” says the person who has stated that they main warrior in a previous post. What a surprise. It seems like warriors are the class that complains the most about mesmers. Maybe warrior is just a class that gets hard countered by mesmers just like thieves hard countered mesmers. I can already see where this is going. You can read about my views on PU here.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Why-do-mesmers-have-so-much-stealth/first

If it gets reduced, it shouldn’t be by much. What do you think many mesmers are going to say when you want the skill nerfed by 80% in most situations? I think i’m gona go to the warrior forum and post of thread on how to fix rampage since their changes were not enough. Good day!

Seriously though, in the thread I posted most of the players that complained about PU the most were warriors. Maybe you should just figure out how warrior can counter mesmer better and ask for changes. Either that or warriors must have some major self centered issues were they think they feel they should always be entitled to meta positions and dominate over all other classes.

I think Anet has said before or hinted at it that there is going to be more than one map. I also don’t think you can call one map a region. Regions involve multiple maps. More information is needed to know exactly how many maps are involved on purchase. I’m ok with this.

I agree that lvl 110 and new dungeons and raids would keep people coming back. I just simply thought mastery systems and novel group content would do just as good of a job and bring more hype, as many want new things. I think the mastery systems are going to take a lot of time (I never compared lvl 110 to specializations, I compared it the masteries). Besides, I think many who don’t want to buy the expansion would be severely disappointed if they raised the lvl to people who bought HoT. Not to mention all that time you spent buying ascended armor and perhaps even versatile infusions would be wasted. Yes it would take more time, but would people be happy about it? More play time doesn’t necessarily equal more fun. I used to play runescape before gw2 and believe me, there was more content and game time than you know what to do with. However, in the end I had just as much fun with gw2. Gw2 could also change from a linear leveling system to add more play time. However, I think many enjoyed this about the game and it is why they played it.

I am not saying wow is a worse game. As I have said, I have never played it. I am saying I think gw2 offers just as much or more, based on watching the trailers to both expansions. I also definitely didn’t lol at the content from the HoT trailer after or before watching the wow trailer.

Well I could very very possibly be wrong, but I got the impression that there would be a story/quest involved with each precursor and you would have to complete these missions to get the recipes or option of crafting them. If this is the case, ill probably complete the missions even if I have that legendary/precursor, just cause I like quests and stuff like that.

I think there are limitless creative stories we could come up with for the legendaries. Spark could involve controlling the power of mount maelstrom or the megadestroyer. Perhaps you have to tear out his heart or something. The tooth of Frostfang may involve finally shattering the tooth of Jormag. Zap may have something to do with Asura technology like the Thaumanova Reactor.

Anet has constantly been releasing new information. They are releasing info slowly to build up hype. This also allows players themselves to slowly beta test without loosing interest in the game/expansion. You can either wait to know more about the game or you can take a chance and pre purchase so you can play the betas. Everyone who prepurchases a game takes a risk. You can even wait a couple months or so after release to gain even more information about the game and how much people like it before you purchase.

If I had a choice between announcing HoT later with all information announced and announcing information slowly while allowing the possibility for many dedicated players to beta test many aspects of the game to make sure it is what they want, I would choose the second option.

eh I haven’t ever played wow so I can’t pass too much judgement, but from reading the comments under the trailer it seams like many are disappointed its with burring legion or something like that, they want something completely new.

broken lisles vs magma jungle
level 110 vs mastery, I would rather have masteries than lvl 110 in HoT. Its something completely new and gives you more variety in what you are able to do. A straight lvl increase sounds very boring to me in comparison.
new dungeons and raids: Once again, I think people would be disappointing if gw2 was just adding more dungeons and fractals. At least we know they are adding challenging group content that is novel and different instead of the same old same old.
New honor system: gw2 is getting a completely different game, stronghold. Some may like it and some may not, but at least its something different. They are also getting a new wvw map.
Artifact weapons = new legendaries and legendary crafting
class order halls = guild halls
demon hunter = revenant

In the gw2 trailer you can see the new enemies, you can see some of the new specializations (which wow expansion doesn’t have), you can see the mursaat and go wow, that is something new from guild wars past.

Additionally, we are getting new info slowly revealed to us like legendary back packs. I personally like a little more mystery and build up instead of saying everything at once.

sorry bro, did it correctly before. I quickly just went to google calculator and must have accidentally typed 10 instead of 5. My bad, I rushed it. However, I knew I did it correct before and got more quickness out of the guardians elite (I mentioned the .167 number before in a different post). So add traited to my statement before guardian.

A traited Guardians elite skill will provide better quickness than the time warp when the chronomancer is traited.

There we go, .208>.17

Sorry, now this should be a correct statement.
Never was arguing that the chronomancer couldn’t provide more quickness than the guardian. I was only talking about the elite skills in my answer. I also did not take the retaliation and super speed into consideration.

Note, these explanations are just my personal opinions. Opinions may vary based on the person and situation.

In pve 12 slow every 76.5 sec = 20 seconds of furry every 48 seconds
My opinion is that slow can help and it can also be detrimental in pve as many have pointed out before. However, people mostly care about dps so in the end furry beats out slow for the party as a whole for fast runs. Not saying the group can’t provide furry anyway. However, based on the stats given, I think its a fair trade and they are viewed as equal by the party.

short duration and short cool down = long duration and long cool down
My opinion is one big burst vs two small bursts makes up for the situations like today when you have to carry time warp when its off of cool down and not use it because if you use it on this small mob, it won’t be off cool down for the finale boss.

Then we have the 22.35294118% faster cool down rate/sec quickness. lol did my calculations on an actual calculator this time. Hopefully I did it right this time, sorry for before, I think (.2235294118 X .17)+.17 = .208 is correct.
So as I mentioned before, I did not take the resistance and super speed into account. However, I still believe 3 seconds of resistance and 2 seconds of super speed every 76.5 seconds does not make up for the 22.35% faster cool down. Everyone is free to make their own opinions. However, once again, I believe most groups care more about dps, making them believe feel my wrath is a better choice as an elite skill than time warp.

p.s. I was not talking about quickness provided by the class as a whole. My answer was directed towards OP who mentioned the quickness and slow were not bad when using continuum shift. I just mentioned that time warp with continuum shift would still provide less quickness for the cool down than feel my wrath and they both provide extra effects. Therefore, I think the shout is too powerful, as it should not provide more quickness than the elite skill of the chronomancer and a TON more quickness than the mesmer.

At the current state, Mesmer elite <<<<<<<< Guardian elite, which I believe should not be the case.

Chronomancer can do some insane things with mimic as well, which will be nice. Chronomancer will provide more quickness overall. However, their elite will not, which is sad imo and should not be the case. I also don’t think they should make the mesmers elite so much weaker than the guardian. I’m curious how many mesmers or chronomancers would take feel my wrath over time warp.

So if treated you get 10 seconds of quickness every 76.5 seconds. This is .1307 seconds of quickness per second of cool down.
Guardians feel my wrath currently gives 5 seconds of quickness every 30 seconds. This is .3333 seconds of quickness per second of cool down.

.3333>.1307

So ya, Guardians elite skill will provide better quickness than the time warp when the chronomancer is traited. It may also slow enemies, but the shout gives furry.

I don’t think they will have traditional dungeons. However, they did say they are going to have upper level group content. Many assume they are going to kinda be like traditional fractals. Since fractals are going to be cut down on time to only one per level, its assumed something will replace them. It is also possible that these include more than five people. However, the reality is, no one knows.

Sometimes I think you shouldn’t even be allowed to take two of the same class into a dungeon. Of course lfg would take longer and people would cry. However, I think that would clear some things up. I think this would also motivate people to play some of the less played classes in pve. Its all relative anyway. People would complain if this mechanic was added now. However, if it was added before the game game out, I don’t think people would care as much and you would see a lot more variety in dungeons today.

Note: This does not mean that all classes are balanced in pve events like dungeons. I believe Anet should work on making classes more balanced in pve and produce a no more than one class rule.

Just wandering if you guys thing Assassins or Zerker will be meta with the chronomancer in pve. Every 5 critical hits you can slow the enemy for two seconds. You then can get 30% critical hit chance against slowed enemies. This combined with furry makes it so you can easily get to 100% without the extra precision. However, is it too situational? Should chronomancers still use assassins or zerker? Will it depend on the dungeon or event?

Theives also gain bonuses from stealth. For example, they can remove conditions in stealth. They can also go into stealth until their initiative buffs up again.

You can easily dodge or evade the mind wrack burst. This is why some mesmers try to burst after you use up your dodges. Yes, I don’t think many mesmers care THAT much about izerker hitting as its a small part of the burst. However, they care a lot about weather the illusions hit with mind wrack. I also disagree that its not a big deal if mirror blade misses. A lot of damage comes from mirror blade. Thats why it was nerfed. I believe, for a good mesmer, a lot more thought process goes into it than you think. However, the whole frequent mantra stun casting did make it so not as much thought went into it, which yes, was a bad thing. You also obviously still want izerker to hit to get the most bang for your buck. Thats why mesmers try to cast it in stealth. Trying to get everything to hit in the setup is important. If it doesn’t and the mind wrack missis, your not going to damage shatter for at least another 12 seconds. Your also not going to have as powerful of a burst setup for at least another 20 seconds. In this time frame, its very easy to at least bring them to low health so that they run or kite away. Not to mention both mirror blade and phantasmal berserker are both easily telegraphed skills.

K, I’m just gona go through the post one by one to organize it just to make it easier.

1. Yes, mesmers have a high burst, just like the thief. Thats why they nerfed mirror blade, they thought it was too high. If burst is a problem, you mess with burst, not PU or stealth. This post is about stealth, it is not about burst damage. If you think stealth or PU is the reason mesmers have such high burst damage, please explain.

2. Near perma stealth. Yes, you and many others have said mesmers have a lot of stealth. However, as I have said before, the thief still has more stealth than the mesmer, even with PU. I also explained why I didn’t believe it was a problem.

3. free facetanking enemy burst every 9.5 sec. Yes blurred frenzy is useful. It has a 12 second cool down. When you use it in the game, after the skill is over, you see it click down from 11 sec, not 9.5. Not sure if you realize, but a kitten ton can happen in 11 seconds. Lets also look at other classes. Warrior can evade and attack with whirlwind attack every 10 seconds (shorter than mesmer) and thief’s can use death blossom to attack while evading with initiative. Therefore, they can potentially do it more frequently than the mesmer. Not to mention that you can’t move and use blurred frenzy at the same time. Do you know what this means? Move out of the way! You don’t need to stand still and take the damage of blurred frenzy. Step out of the way so you don’t take damage. The mesmer can’t move. Also don’t attack during this time. Save your cool downs. As soon as its over, then you attack. Finally, PU and stealth doesn’t impact blurred frenzy or face tanking every 9.5 sec.

4. Best mobility in game. I think this is very debatable. Mesmers currently have no traits that increase their movement speed besides focus every 25 sec (if you carry it instead of torch) and PU which only may randomly give you swiftness if you are in stealth. Meanwhile a class like the warrior can have 25% increased movement speed just as long as they are carrying a melee weapon. Mesmers are skrewed in the mobility department.

5. Free ranged stuns. I don’t know what exactly you mean by free. As you know, mantras were nerfed, as they should have been. How would nerfing PU or stealth help with stuns? Changing CS helps with stuns, not PU.

6. “the reason why I did not mention all this, is cause I thought we all kinda alrdy knew this.”

Yes, I know this. I just personally find most of it irrelevant. You don’t nerf PU or stealth because mesmers have high bursts, you nerf the bursts. You don’t nerf PU or stealth because of frequent stuns, you nerf the source of the stuns. Nerfing traits that aren’t causing the problem doesn’t solve anything.

7. “sorry for your attemtp to make mesmer look balanced or finally viable”. This thread is about stealth. When I wrote my previous comments I did not believe that mesmers were balanced. My comments were also made before the current nerfs. However, I did not believe PU or stealth was the reason why mesmers were unbalanced, which is why I defended mesmer stealth. I also never said in this thread that mesmers were balanced or “finally viable”. Read my previous comments, I never said that. Don’t put words in peoples mouths that they never said. What makes you think I believed this when I wrote my comments. You are making false assumptions. Just look under my name, you will see when I wrote my comment that I thought confounding suggestions needed to be nerfed. Why would I believe the class was balanced if I thought it needed a nerf?

8. After this it just looks like a bunch of smack talk that I don’t care about. Attempting to dis me adds nothing to the conversation about weather or not mesmer stealth needs to be nerfed.

9. “Ow and before we go l2p and you’re just new…I have aprox 10k matches on my name and made a fool of some top 50 players not to long ago in multiple 1v1’s….cause I am a noname and they would surely rekt me… (won’t say their names out of respect)”

My god, I never said l2p and was never going to. Why are you making false assumptions and then complaining about those assumptions?

The dissing then continues, I still don’t care.

10. “Is this topic about mesmers and it’s problems? ow yes it is…you exposed yourself, how?
By saying something entirely wrong and trying to save what is left of the sinking ship.”

This is a topic about PU and mesmer stealth. It is not about burst, stun, etc. What did I say wrong? Point it out and explain. Ouch, a finale dissing phrase. It hurts so much.

Mesmer mine wrack shatter is easy to dodge. I would not suggest randomly dodging after two seconds of torch stealth. Better to wait and dodge what you can see. Dodge as soon as you take any damage or see izerker and you will negate most of the damage from mind wrack if they are doing a quick burst. Same thing with thief. I don’t recommend randomly dodging. Just keep moving and be prepared to use your abilities when they actually burst.

Darksteel: mesmer is entirely ruining the game, im just doing dailies and afk/chat in game…untill im bored with that and drop gw2 entirely….mesmer need hardcore extreme tone downs and either stealth be removed from them and swap positions with clones…awesome idea tbh. or their burst need be toned down by full 60%. I used to love gw2 but the game is being ruined by this particular class. also stop using excuses like “but they are hardly seen on official tournaments” that’s no reason to have it be a godmode class in less organized play.
But but but mesmer is squishy, no it’s not a thief is squishy mesmer isn’t….in fact mesmer are hardcore tanks with their free on demand every 9.5 sec ignore enemy burst (distortion) mesmer isn’t squishy at all…only on paper in reality it tanks more then nearly if not all other classes out there

The only thing these paragraphs said about PU was “I hate mesmers, it should be nerfed”. You didn’t explain why. You are also randomly throwing in excuses from other forums that no one has mentioned here and have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Hardly anything you mentioned is relevant. Why are you bringing in outside arguments from totally different topics from totally different people?

As far as I am aware, you need to invest in the new specialization trait line to unlock the new weapon. For example, you need to use the chronomancer trait line to use the shield. The specialization is more like a “special” trait line. With the trait line comes a new special ability and weapon. However, like all trait lines, you can only choose 3.

What reason would anyone have to not use the elite spec?

You still want to change your traits like you do now. One build isn’t the best in all situations. For example, I might run dueling/illusions/chronomancy for most dungeon stacking situations. However, in caucuses manor I may switch to domination/dueling/chaos for buff to stealth. Every build has an advantage over another build, weather you use the specialization line or not.

Will the elite spec close other base class traits or skills and replace them or just add more?

It only limits traits in the fact that you can only use 3 trait lines at once. Therefore, you currently need to choose one trait line to replace in order to use the specialization trait line.

Can you use the bow (guardian) without using the elite spec?

Not quite sure. None of the dragon hunter traits say that it gives access to the long bow. However, it wouldn’t surprise me if its the same as chronomancer simply because guardians who don’t purchase HoT can’t use long bows.

Will any class be less useful or powerful without unlocking the said elite class?

The classes will remain the same. Weather some of the specializations are more powerful, only time will tell. However, I think its safe to say that some of them will be more “meta” in most situations.

If you don’t have multiple elite specs to choose from its not an elite spec its just an advanced class level?

Sorry, I can’t help you on this. I really don’t quite exactly understand what you mean even with the example. However, ya I would think of it more like an additional trait line than an “advanced class level”. You could use other weapons besides long bow and still take the dragon hunter trait line. However, for example, I think its safe to say that the dragon hunter trait line synergizes better with the long bow than say the scepter, while if you use the scepter you might want to use a different trait line besides dragon hunter because it synergizes better.

I main mesmer and ya mesmer is currently mostly there for reflects. However, I don’t think chronomancer is not going to be as simple as Agent Noun makes it sound. For example, this is a rotation I came up with. This is the “longest” rotation I could come up with. It would need to be toned down for shorter stacks or fights.

Use sword 3 and dodge with deceptive evasion (harmonious mantras is no longer needed unless you are a Mesmer). Shatter Continuum split for 9 seconds. Cast mimic, cast well of recall, cast well of action, cast time warp, cast well of recall, shatter using the four other shatter abilities you have, continuum shift.

¼ sec + 1 sec + ¼ sec + ¼ sec + 1 sec + 1 sec or so for all shatters = 3 ¾ seconds (it may be a tad longer with clicking, just did the pattern on my keyboard and came up with a time of around 4 seconds). With quick fingers, you should be fine on time. If needed, you can always dodge again for an extra 3 seconds in continuum split. If you have enough time, you can also summon a few clones for mine wrack in continuum. After continuum shift, cast mimic, cast well of recall, cast well of action, cast well of recall (don’t cast time warp unless it’s the finale boss because its 180 sec cool down is longer than the 60 sec cool down of continuum split), then use all four shatters.

With flow of time traited, this should give around 20 seconds of alacrity and 16 seconds of quickness, along with the other effects and damage tied to the traits. As previously stated, this time period should be plenty for most encounters. Therefore, it typically would need to be towned down by the chronomancer for better cool down and play through management.

Back when burst shatter with X traits was the only so called viable build for mesmers, I still played with other builds. If you really want to play S/D than play it. No one is stoping you from playing this build. Before the patch, I didn’t go crying in the forums about how X build isn’t viable. There are a lot a classes that many say don’t have more than one good type of build for pvp. However, that doesn’t mean you can’t get better and do good with a build that isn’t meta. Its just more of a challenge. Many say this is the fun part. There are a lots weapon combinations that aren’t used that much by other classes.

Ya, Ive read that before as well. The only problem is, I feel like it gives you hardly any information about my question. I suppose that may be how Anet wants it to be.

I was only suggesting adding more damage percentage to compounding power because, with all honesty, how many times do you see Anet revert a nerf they made to a class? I think chances are harmonies mantras is going to remain at 3%. Anet isn’t going to change it because they think pvp mantra shatter builds were too powerful. This hurts pve mesmers. So, my suggestion is to boost the damage of pve mesmers in some other way. A pve mesmer who is traited for damage instead of reflects will take the illusion line, and its not like phantasms are killed in pve instantly, this is an exageration. You still benefit from the trait. If you have another suggestion besides just “revert nerf, revert nerf” let me know? This is just to help bring pve mesmer up to par with where it used to be so that pve does not take a hit because of what happened in pvp, which in unfair and unjustified.

p.s. Ya mesmer sustained damage is lower than the guardian. Its at least been this way since I played gw. The problem is if you up sword damage or phantasm damage than all the pvp community is going to go into hysteria, just like with this patch. Mesmers are brought into dungeons because of abilities, not dps. Many at Anet realize this. Its not like they are completely oblivious. Thats the reason why they are creating the chronomancer instead of simply boosting the dps of the mesmer. The only problem is we have to hope guardian ability + dps advantage does not beet out chronomancer ability all the time for casual runs.

Can I ask you guys a question? This post seamed relevant. Does personal score or some kind of average personal score dictate what type of players you will ultimately go up against in future games? Like will a person who always gets a high ps go up against others who usually have high ps while someone who usually gets low ps go up against the same people. Or is it more complicated than this? Ive always wanted to know how they calculate that.

I was thinking about it and my suggestion is to add one extra damage percentage point to compounding power. This helps make up for the pve loss of harmonious mantras and helps forge a greater identity difference between taking illusions for damage and inspiration for group support and reflects.

You know mesmers got nerfed today and eles may get a slight nerf in a couple weeks or so. More additional changes will probably be made to all classes in the future. Bugs have been getting fixed every couple of weeks. It takes time. Have patience.

lol, this doesn’t mean anything other than having a team with only “burst” classes is a horrible idea. This was known before and shouldn’t come as a surprise.

Most of my opinions are similar to others. Not too worried about mirror blade. Kinda sucks a little, but not devastated beyond belief. Most were bug fixes that probably needed to be fixed. Not surprised that you can’t get might out of combat with imagined burden anymore. I told some of my guildies this will be changed as soon as I noticed it. Lol, I can’t believe they reduced the recharge of mantra of distraction. This doesn’t make sense to me at all. We all new that mantra of distraction with cs was well, you know.

The nerf to harmonies mantras: totally uncalled for. This trait is more important in pve than pvp and mesmers were not op at all with this trait. Do they really want mesmers to compete with chronomancer? Its not gona happen. Chronomancer is meant for utility while mesmer was meant to punch in a little more damage. Anet is just reducing the damage of mesmer even more in pve so everyone chooses chronomancer skills without question. Great move Anet! Lets make it so mesmer can’t compete with chronomancer so there is less variety.

Dear lord this is too repetitive. Not going to type a lot again. You can read my posts in the link if you want to learn why I don’t think PU is a problem.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Why-do-mesmers-have-so-much-stealth/first#post5322064

Cheese: Xstein: you’re kind of ignoring the point.

My point was that some think Mesmer shouldn’t be a “stealth” class like thief. This is ludicrous, as explained in my post.

Cheese: Mesmer has been a stealth class since launch, it’s just not had this much stealth available in this many builds.

Agreed. Why shouldn’t it?

Cheese: Nobody’s saying “make Mesmer unable to stealth”. The point being made is "Mesmers can currently stealth too much and are too strong due to the trait that does this.

Why is this too much? Thieves have access to stealth through Merciful Ambush, Meld with Shadows, Hidden Thief, Cloak and dagger, Shadow Trap, Hide in Shadows, Blinding Powder, Shadow Refuge, Black powder smoke field, and smoke screen with smoke field. This gives thieves the ability of having permanent stealth. Not to mention thieves can synergize better with stealth through their stealth attack abilities and many traits such as cloaked in shadow.

Mesmers have access to stealth through PU, veil, the prestige, decoy, and mass invisibility. Mesmers cannot have permanent stealth like the thief. It is impossible.
I would also like to note that shadow refuge is a utility skill with a 60 second cool down that provides 15 seconds of stealth to a group of 5. On the other hand, mass invisibility is an elite skill that provides 5 seconds of stealth to a group of 5. Which core trait wins? Yaaaaa, there is no comparison. Even with PU, shadow refuge still wins.

Cheese: Right now Mesmers can do high damage, with CC, from far away, with relatively little counterplay. Stealth contributes to this significantly.

Mesmers need to be close so that they, as a shatter, hit the target. They also need to switch to sword (if running prestige), ideally, after the burst as every good great sword skill is on cool down. Thieves can do high burst damage after stealth as well. The little counter play is due to confounding suggestions and blinding dissipation, which has been covered in other posts many times. It is not due to PU. If so, you would be complaining about lack of counter play even more so about the thief because they have more access to stealth, or at least be complaining just as much.

Cheese: Not to mention that Mesmers’ stealth access literally just got buffed significantly – as chibbi says, the relevant trait got a buff as well as got made accessible to more builds.

Ya, stealth got buffed by a lot with the new PU, and the Mesmer needed it to come even relatively close to thieves in the stealth category. The memser still can’t stealth as much as a thief. People could play PU in just as many builds before the patch. Of the two major Mesmer pvp builds, only one uses PU. Before the patch, mesmers were locked down to choosing only one viable build type in pvp because of illusionary person. Is this a good model? Is this the way it should be? Noooooooo! Being locked down to one build choice is boring as kitten. It lacks variety, limiting the fun of playing a class in pvp. Robert Gee and others recognized this and fixed it. A larger variety of good builds can now incorporate PU. However, a larger variety of good builds can incorporate other traits as well, instead of the chaos line with PU. PU isn’t a necessity. Mesmers get longer stealth duration from PU. However, is it really that useful? Good mesmers don’t need 100% more stealth to land a burst or survive a sticky situation. What matters is frequency. For example, a new shatter ability that allowed you to stealth for a couple of seconds would be a lot more useful in most situations than PU, imo, much like the Hidden Thief trait. Sure, a mesmer who has PU has a better chance of surviving. However, chances are they are getting the most use out of PU because they got beat and are trying to stealth away. Therefore, even though the mesmer didn’t get stomped, its almost as good as a kill because the mesmer just wasted a whole bunch of time in the match when they could have been helping the rest of the team. Just cause you didn’t get the stomp, doesn’t mean you lost.

I can really only speak for mesmers. Many of the mesmer skills need some tweaks, like confounding suggestions and blinding dissipation. This is easy to do. However, what Gee helped do was change the trait lines and make more builds viable. He also did this based on experience and knowledge of what the mesmers is all about and how the game works and has transformed. This is not easy. It is easy to nerf a class to the ground or buff it till it is op. However, how many classes have this many variety of builds available to them now? Not just talking about pvp, but all aspects of the game. This will be the case no matter what happens to the mesmer. Even if CS, blinding dissipation, etc. where not as good, many mesmers would still love some of the changes he made. Changing the trait lineup of a class is not just about “ohhh lets make this trait more powerful” and Gee understood this. And that is the point. Even if the mesmer wasn’t as powerful as it is now, the mesmer community would still love the changes he made. These changes allowed a larger variety of builds, synergy, and play variety that was never seen in the class before, and I think most classes would want the same thing. I’m sorry many did not have as dedicated of an individual investing so much time into their main class. With that said, I don’t think Gee should balance all classes. However, I think all classes needed someone as devoted as Gee working on them before the patch.

p.s. There was also many people working on the mesmer, not just Gee. These people also need credit for the great job they did as well.

omfg. Yes, as a mesmer, I totally agree that Confounding Suggestions and Blinding Dissipation need some treeks. However, these have been covered a million times in a million different posts. People are so stupid sometimes.

“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” – Albert Einstein

Yaa! Everyone knows there can’t be a magic based stealth class and a traditional rogue based stealth class. Thats just ridicules. There can only be one. Why? Because I said so, and that is the way its always been. We don’t need gw2 to be unique. Unique is not why gw2 to where it is today. Boringly copying every other mmo is why gw2 became so popular. Du, I thought everyone knew that.

Hey! I like my pvp dailies

Mimic only affects the mesmers utility skills. Rebound can potentially affect any ability of all allies. Its a completely different ball game. Quickness wasn’t a unique skill to the mesmer before the patch. Lots of classes could potentially gain quickness. However, time warp was the only ability that supplied it to allies. Same reason banner of strength is important. It provides a boost to allies, not just the warrior. A mimic that could be used for all allied skills would make alacrity nearly worthless if mimic had a lower cool down and was the skill of a different class that had a lot higher dps. Its not just a problem of rebound being potentially stronger than alacrity. Its if the difference between alacrity and rebound will be enough to make up for the huge dps difference. We have to remember, if you are a mesmer with shield you are going to have an even lower dps than the current mesmer pve meta.

I think the current version of CS is making the class too good for new players to the class and taking some skill out. However, other than that, I don’t see the problem. Mesmers get longer stealth duration from PU. However, is it really that useful? Good mesmers don’t need 100% more stealth to land a burst or survive a sticky situation. What matters is frequency. For example, a new shatter ability that allowed you to stealth for a couple of seconds would be a lot more useful in most situations than PU, imo. Sure, a mesmer who has PU has a better chance of surviving. However, chances are they are getting the most use out of PU because they got beat and are trying to stealth away. Therefore, even though the mesmer didn’t get stomped, its almost as good as a kill because the mesmer didn’t get the point. I have to admit, I do find PU useful when dueling thieves to outlast their stealth. However, that is mostly it. Just cause you didn’t get the stomp, doesn’t mean they won or you lost.

Having lots of people play mesmer in pvp does not mean that lots of people are successful at playing mesmer in pvp. There are a lota wana bes trying it out. In the first match Elia posted the mesmer got the lowest score. In the second match the two mesmers on the team got the two lowest scores. In the finale match with three mesmers, the team got decimated. Do some of the mesmer traits need to be toned down a bit? Yes. Is mesmer really as op as many people posting are making it seem? No. Evidence above.

Condition Guardian! Just because it doesn’t require skill to play it. Oh wait thats not a choice. What about dagger pistol thief. Welll shoot. Its pretty obvious to me that someone more skilled at mesmer is going to beat someone less skilled at ele and someone more skilled at ele is going to beat someone less skilled at mesmer. However, in the end the looser is just going to go crying in the forums saying it was the classes fault and not man up to their loss. Which one is more OP? It depends on the skill lvl of the players, like are both of them playing in tournaments or are both of them starting players? It also depends on their team composition to a certain extant.

Sorry, I’m confused. The first build seems like a hybrid between a pvp build and a pve build. Is it suppose to be a burst build for pve? If so, then you don’t need blink or mass invisibility. Take time warp! You have harmonious mantras and you are only using two mantras. Take advantage of it! I would also rather have compounding power in pve than persistence of memories. I tried using that trait for pve roaming and was not very impressed by it. If this is pve, instead of blink you really need mantra of distraction. This is not only for the damage boost from harmonious mantras but because it synergizes with Dazzling in the domination line to provide stacks of vulnerability to the npc before you shatter.

If you are running a pvp build with illusions, I would still take the pledge if you use torch. Not necessarily because of the cool down reduction but because of the condition cleanse. I found this very useful as there is still a lot of condition builds in use. If this is for pvp you also really want deceptive evasion to get clone generation for your burst.

p.s. I would also use empowered illusions in both cases (or you can take confounding suggestions for pvp). One stack of vulnerability per shatter just doesn’t seem like very much, especially compared to the vulnerability stacking of mantra of distraction.

I don’t know what the big deal is, depending on the class. My guild and I were planning on running a few pvp matches without armor (at least the ones you can’t make disappear). Its just for more of a challenge. I really don’t think its that big of a deal for burst classes like mesmers and thieves. I played a pvp match a couple of weeks ago with a naked thief on my team who kicked kitten . If its a tankier class, I understand. However, if its like a thief who is wearing no armor and he was doing bad, chances are it was more him than not wearing armor.

I’m planning to mess around with it. However, I am not expecting to use it a lot. Who knows maybe I’m wrong and I will end up using it a lot. However, right now I am expecting to mainly run burst shatter with great sword and sword/torch with the trait lines domination, dueling, and chronomancy. The new shatter ability is just too good to give up.

It says next ability. Therefore, I would assume it would effect elite skills. Also, as of right now, I would not call it a great trait that kills off the chronomancer. However, as far as I am aware, we do not know what the cool down time of this skill is. And having it be an elite skill does NOT mean it will have a long cool down time. What would happen if the skill had a cool down time of 10 seconds? Then we may have something to complain about. However, we don’t have any reason to complain about this skill right now because we are lacking information.

However, this does means if there is a tempest, guardian, and mesmer in a dungeon than feel my wrath could have a cool down of 22.5 seconds (without any additional buffs that are out there) while time warp will have its same cool down of 180 seconds (time warp can’t benefit from cool down reduction buffs). That is 5 seconds of quickness per 22.5 seconds of cool down = .2222 sec quick/sec cooldown while the mesmer will have 10sec/180sec or .0555 sec quick/sec cooldown. Even if you are a chronomancer and can pop time warp twice with continuum shift, this brings the quickness per sec cool down up to only .1111 sec quick/sec cool down. Therefore, you STILL get more quickness per second of cool down from the guardian. The absolute best situation for the chronomancer is if they only pop time warp once when in continuum split and save time warp for another rainy day since continuum split has a 60 sec cool down. This brings it up to 10 sec of quickness/ 60 sec cool down = .16666 sec quick/sec cooldown. Therefore, when a chronomancer uses their f5 specialization, their elite will still provide less quickness per cool down time than the guardian (.2222>.16666). That is and they are STILL called a chronomancer. At the same time, a guardian will produce more dps and have a specialization that is able to provide more damage instead of trying to make up for a huge gap in cool down that you will never cross.

Everyone probably knows that I am upset about this. The main reason is not just that the guardian’s elite (without the tempest) will provide the same quickness as a traited chronomancer with only one button click instead of a whole set up regiment. It is that you should have a choice of being a chronomancer of mesmer and still be welcome in dungeons with a random group. As of right now, the guardian will always be accepted, while its obvious to me that if you are not running prepared speed runs with portal, the mesmer will not. You can read my other replies on this topic as well. It is quite obvious that I was upset when writing them. However, the message has not changed. I just think its ridicules for the guardian and dragon hunter to both provide more quickness with their elite skill than the chronomancer is capable of, while with the mesmer there is no comparison.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Feel-my-wrath-1st-impressions/first#post5220904
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chronomancer-is-doomed/first#post5221870