Guild Wars 2

Lol yeah I just remembered. I havn’t really gone to temples since the farming nerf there.

Stardrift.7360:

sorrow.2364:

Shemsu.8721:

Warrior or ele traited for cc reduction, plus melandru runes and lemongrass. -96% cc reduction, no need for anti cc when immune

Which trait exactly gives CC reduction?
As far I remember, thieves are able to run Melandru runes and lemongrass too.

Zumy.6318:

How much Time does it take a warrior, Glass Guardian, shatter Mesmer or an actually good necro to deal it. Wanting to deal that damage in your condinecro shows your knowlegde about your build and its role.

Skillless random casual that comes here to rant in every thread.

Yeah, roll a Necro and try to deal 6k damage with a single hit in PvP on a 2.6k armor character. Please, do that and make a screenshot.

@sorrow: *heavy breathing: i find your lack of keeping quiet disturbing. It`s obvious u hate the thief. It`s obvious to all thieves that this profession is the most underpowered. Line drawn, things added up = you must be a horrible player if u feel the need to constantly QQ about every thing that sounds good on paper but in reality is just god awful. Oh yeah and about the thief`s uncanny abilities to cleanse CCs, sure lemme equip ONLY stun breakers and i`ll be za best. All in favor of sorrow changing his screen name to besttheorycrafterEU? Here here!

Ey /raisedrink

Norns are fat so I don’t play them.

There are no rabid exo chest gear unless you do WvW. You can buy carrion off the TP though.

EDIT: You also need to get the rabid trinkets from the balthazar temple.

juno.1840:

@Zacchary — so three of you took down one thief and ONLY after using a purchased trap and coordinated AoE. Yeah we don’t need any tweaks to stealth (sarcasm).

First off, the trap was Tripwire.
Secondly, those rings that grant stealth (shadow refuge) are visible to the enemy. It’s literally screaming “attack here”. What better way to burn CC than with an enemy made target where 80% of the time they’ll stay for the whole duration.

Again, l2p.

sorrow.2364:

Zacchary.6183:

Yeah but universal gaming terms trump individual gaming terms. Using status effects that limit the abilities of those effected is called Crowd Control no matter what anyone says.

This is absolutely untrue.
Specific definitions always triumph over general definitions.
It has always been like that.
It usually works that when the term isn’t redefined in the specific environment, it inherits the general definition, but while it is redefined, the specific definition wins over the general.
Since developers themselves used the word “CC” referring to disables, there is nothing to argue about here.

Since when? This is a video game that has video game stuff. Universal CC is part of that video game stuff regardless of what the devs say. Would I be correct if I made my own game and described DPS as “the number of times you hit your target in a minute”? No because DPS means Damage Per Second, the average amount of damage dealt per second over a length of time.

Dev CC =/= CC.

What would be the point of wasting initiative for stealth when the enemy can see your Black Powder/hs path?

EDIT: You guys have no clue what you are talking about. Play a thief before you kitten about them.

Yeah but universal gaming terms trump individual gaming terms. Using status effects that limit the abilities of those effected is called Crowd Control no matter what anyone says.

Do you even play a thief? Have you even tried it on thief? Because if not, you wouldn’t know that anet nerfed stealth stacking to 12s max.

I am still waiting for OP to make a vid to prove his claim.

sorrow.2364:

Shemsu.8721:

warrior
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March
33% added cc reduction

Elementalist
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geomancer%27s_Freedom
33% added cc reduction

Both of these traits combine with melandru and lemongrass, no other classes can achieve this total cc reduction. Knowledge is power, pay attention more before you whine

What do you exactly mean with CC?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Control_effect
I think you don’t even know what the acronym stands for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_control_

Mirta.5029:

Zacchary.6183:

And obviously you didn’t click on the picture so I will tell you. That vid is outdated being almost 8 months old. That’s the problem with it.

according to this post:

You don’t even need Deception skills to do it. All you need is dagger/pistol and 2-3 specific traits. Black Powder to create a smoke field and a Leap finisher (heart Seeker) to stealth for 3 seconds. Rinse and repeat for perma stealth. With the right traits you won’t run out of initiative. There are a few ways to spec it in traits.

still more than doable today.
According to the posts on the video, someone was still able to do it 3 months ago.

Cool story bro. What about now?

Mirta.5029:

Zacchary.6183:

There is a problem with that vid. Try again.

and what is your problem exactly? That they’re in a tank build? Other people choose a tank build without being able to be perma invisible. Also ever tried stacking boon duration on your armor in runes? Never ending stealth with you having to do this how often? Every 10 seconds?
Obviously a design flaw. Like I pointed out.

And obviously you didn’t click on the picture so I will tell you. That vid is outdated being almost 8 months old. That’s the problem with it.

Anet gets their money but loses customer loyalty and risks hurting themselves through word-of-mouth advertising.

Mirta.5029:

Zacchary.6183:

That would be more true if the thief could stay in stealth more than 12s. Otherwise they are no better then anyone else at scouting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSbw8Cpy-3s

:/

There is a problem with that vid. Try again.

1. Get rid of Gem <—> Gold.
2. Make everything on Gem Store reasonably priced.
3. Add more convenience items.

Problem solved.

Wolfheart.1938:

Unless you go into detail and possibly post videos, we are discussing thin air.

@ Zacchary
Stealthed players can: scout and report position of enemy zergs (wvw), ress allies, stomp downed enemies, place down traps (wvw), all of this while not needing to interrupt stealth. They could potentially interrupt their stealth for a brief 4 seconds to down low-hp enemies with a quick backstab-heartseeker. Useless much?

That would be more true if the thief could stay in stealth more than 12s. Otherwise they are no better then anyone else at scouting.

Dear Blankverse,

I am not a stealthaholic and I have been sober for 3 months.

L2P

Love,
Zacchary

Engels.8537:

I’m talking about balance because I know this game, and because I play all classes, including the thief,

I’m sure the only class you play is the thief, that’s why you will defend it at any cost,

I was wearing rabid, so what?

There’s always an explanation, isn’t?

Do you have any idea of how much time takes me to do 6K damage?

This is why i’m able to complain…

Now go and roll a necro,

Everyone lost their right to complain when they continued to argue even after thief forums gave up their secrets. :I sorry

Engels.8537:

There you have your balance dude,

That looks like the thief was wearing soldiers and critted on LS.

I love how people who don’t main thieves or use them very much come on here and tell those who do main thieves that they don’t know how to play their class.

50/50 rabid/carrion

Superior Rune of the Undead x6

Ill let you decide your traits from there but I use 0/20/0/30/20.

Azraeel.1238:

Zacchary.6183:

Azraeel.1238:

sorrow.2364:

Zacchary.6183:

Did you know that the moment the Thief gets CCed its game over?

This is the biggest lie I’ve ever read in the Thief forum.
Since when CC do something to thieves?

When the other player knows how to play.

Didn’t you hear? Stealth gives unstoppable and invincibility!

Not only that, but all our utilities have a stunbreak in them, and cooldown is 1 second. So we can spam it and never get caught!

And they all apply 5 minutes of stealth. :O

EDIT: AND OMNI-CLEANSE!

Azraeel.1238:

sorrow.2364:

Zacchary.6183:

Did you know that the moment the Thief gets CCed its game over?

This is the biggest lie I’ve ever read in the Thief forum.
Since when CC do something to thieves?

When the other player knows how to play.

Didn’t you hear? Stealth gives unstoppable and invincibility!

Lighter.5631:

Zacchary.6183:

Problem is the moment you stop you have 12s before stealth disappears. I’ve already tried it as a thief and i’ve already watched 3 thieves attempt to break 12s for 20+ minutes straight. I even helped them with my own black powders and Shadow Refuges.

Never did it get more than 12s. Just wanted to give you a heads up.

i just log on my 19 matches played and read all the traits and click them and use dp combo as a newb thief like me i managed a 1 min+ stealth i can go on for ever like this if i want, also i managed a 15 sec stack with blinding powder and SR. like that guy said you don’t need to stack over an amount of secs to be perm stealth

Well I invoke “Vid or it didn’t happen”.

Secondly, there is no point in stealth if the enemy can see the chain of AoE rings and smoke explosions. Not only are you useless in stealth but with the rings making your general location a killzone you might as well just stand out in the open and spam /cry until someone comes along and kills you.

Kronyx.2570:

You had way more then us you came in and attacked NE tower, hills, and oh god, like 6 times on bay? Lol, we had to pull a lot of people. From what I can see, CD is a slightly more squishy than KN, BUT, I have to hand it to you guys in terms of map coordination. You had several groups running around really making our job harder. Fun and interesting night. And we took CD’s hills.

Also, just now Yak’s is second.

Thank you! We take pride in annoying others.

Skritt be legitt!

If you want to know how to kill thieves, you should go to our forums and ask. I am pretty sure we will be more than happy to come up with some methods with you.

Please do this for the thief community.

Problem is the moment you stop you have 12s before stealth disappears. I’ve already tried it as a thief and i’ve already watched 3 thieves attempt to break 12s for 20+ minutes straight. I even helped them with my own black powders and Shadow Refuges.

Never did it get more than 12s. Just wanted to give you a heads up.

This is me when 2 inches of dirt halts my shadowstep….

MakeitNeil.4561:

Now, I know most of you guys never fought a good engi, a couple of you have fought a good ele, quite a few must have fought a good ranger, and all of you have fought an annoying thief. Well, here are the numbers me and my friends found when testing the healing and condition removal of these classes (keep in mind that we didn’t include skills that remove all conditions for it’s effect but assumed that it only removes 1 condition). With the engi we healed for about 55k health and have the ability to remove at least 20 conditions at the time, all in 1 minute. On the ele, we are able to heal around 60k health and remove at least 14 conditions at the same time, all in 1 minute. On the ranger… we were able to heal about 50k health and remove
at least 34 conditions. Now, ha ha ho, the thief…moment of silence…heals for 65k and removes 25 conditions. These thieves also have to ability to permanently stealth as they please. <stopped reading>

Please tell me how a thief can stack stealth greater than 12s? I would like to know because for all I know thats bullkitten.

The moa one looks so good! I am going to see if anyone will turn it into fanart.

Teamkiller.4315:

I didn’t say you had to use stealth. It was in parentheses. You have other ways to cleanse.

Basically TL;DR, sorry, uh, stunbreakers and cleanses, ever heard of them? If you keep arguing that CC’ing a thief = instant thief dead I’d like to see you take a hammer warrior and beat MY thief with it. Otherwise, I maintain you are an awful thief.

Lol! Who made you the official Thief rater, Mr. Ranger? Warriors are easy. Try taking on a decent Engineer with your Thief. See how long it takes for the Net Turret/Glue Shot barrage to kitten you off while the Rocket Turret and other pistol attacks whittle you down. You can bet the engi is going to have an easy time keeping you away while you burn every cleanse and stunbreaker you have just to try to get to them.

Of course, you completely ignore the fact that we are not talking about 1v1.

Teamkiller.4315:

You must be an awful awful thief to say that. You’ve never heard of stunbreakers or cleanse (on stealth) have you.

Lol! You are one to talk. Not every thief uses stealth because not every thief needs it.

I already know about cleanse and sb. What you probably didn’t understand was that I was talking about CC in 1vMany, not 1v1. Aside from it being more common, 1vM is different from 1v1 because if CC is chained, you are kittened 97% of the time. It’s happened to me multiple times and any person who I saw in the same situation. They would get caught, enemies would attack, they would break out, get caught again, lather, rinse, repeat. That’s the thing, CC can be lethal in steady doses regardless of the amount of stun breakers you have.

Yes, there is stealth cleanse but not everyone uses or specs for stealth (like me). And if you were wondering why I don’t, it is because of instances where people like you and Sebrent blow up a forum using inconsistent arguments to prove your points. That aside, I think it would be better for the baddies if I gave them no room for excuses rather then using the thief’s “flavour” builds so that once I do kill them that the only one they can blame is themselves. That’s just me.

Yes there are stunbreakers but not everyone stockpiles on it. In 1v1, having 1 stunbreaker on-hand is sufficient enough to keep yourself from dying. In fact I never use them in 1v1 because its almost never a problem for me (minus Engi and their net turret). Although in 1vM, I tend to die faster when CC starts getting chained on me.

Again, I would completely agree with you in 1v1 combat but it gets trickier when more are involved especially if multiples are targeting you. CC can and will kitten you over in steady doses. It is the whole point of it… control.

Shadowskill.9852:

JakobGW.5730:

Shadowskill.9852:

Crystal, I still can’t believe that you have people who spend ALL DAY tagging the gate on EB. The sheer boredom with such a task blows my mind. I can’t complain to much with all the bags i keep getting, but still.

Honestly, the same can be said regarding Yak’s folks sitting ALL DAY on arrow carts and cannons inside towers and not coming out to fight a solo thief who /beckons them.

At least tagging the gate serves a purpose; the sheer boredom sitting on AC’s and cannons inside an uncontested tower blows my mind.

Then you never seem to visit your own borderlands much. Almost every tower, bridge and camp had at least 1 person there just chilling. As soon as i would run towards them they would run into the tower.

So please don’t make it sound that everyone on crystal is ready to solo battle.

Just this morning on Crystal I killed 2 who tried to run but couldn’t (Ranger and Engie) , 1 (Mesmer) at a camp i was taking and the lone Guardian who stood his/her ground. Everyone else ran inside the towers. When I go onto Kain borderlands that hardly ever happens.

Different strokes and all.

Trust me, If I see you i’ll heed the call.

That happens with everyone. Now, I can’t say much since I camp out at points as well but at least I call out movements/numbers/siege/directions whenever there is an update and constantly patrolling the walls to check for scouts. kittening out in towers without contributing to the overall cause makes you more detrimental than you’de think.

Outmanned is great for the server because of the no armor damage and added xp. This allows your server to not care about dying so much which leads into reckless abandon. Reckless abandon without any consequences is powerful. So if you are camping towers and not contributing to the cause, you are a body that is taking away from a pretty good buff. Essentially, you are kittening your server over.

Frosch.7809:

Some guys from Kaineng are seriously lacking in manners – today i died during camp defense in our borderlands and someone vomitted repeatedly onto the corpse of my character. Didn’t even know one could do that. It was a Charr, so it didn’t surprise me that much. And you remove your corpses afap because you seem to be afraid to be treated in a similar disrespectful manner. I would post the guild tag here, but instead i will just treat every Kaineng the same way. You got no honor.

I’ve seen this happen alot. In which case, I just /dance on their corpses while my friends /laugh.

I like the “Blow everything out of proportion until something breaks” method of fixing problems. Not only does it get people in the proper frame of mind to tackle a situation, but once everything is kittened the only direction anyone can go in is up.

I say we all go to every other forum and kitten about the best parts of every other class until they get nerfed to hell.

I have already bought their molten alliance pickaxe. I have already bought their consortium harvesting sickle. Once I get my Logging axe I am done buying stuff from them because, unfortunately, there is no more good buys after that.

I have no problem with siege. The first shot will almost always miss BUT its great to gauge how long to hold it down. Afterwards its just repeating shots.

Onshidesigns.1069:

I have very fast internet at home and the culling is far worse than at launch. The problem must be on Anets servers.

This.

Now before we begin, if you’ve no clue what I am talking about by the title:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item_nomenclature

Now seeing as we already have Berserker which can drastically increase your damage output (and giver’s to a point), I was thinking what if this nomenclature could be a type in itself. Berserker takes one aspect of combat to the extreme, effectively making it overpower others. Granted, zerks are fragile but sometimes killing the opposition first is better hence “The best defense is a good offense”. Onto the definition of “Extreme Nomenclatures”…

An “Extreme Nomenclature” is one that seriously enhances one aspect of combat while making the rest suffer. Instead of just damage there could be boon support, condition support, damage suppression Utility (which will catch some flak), etc. I will list them below in this fashion:

Name (aspect)
Major
Minor
Minor

Now understand I am not asking for completely unfair % stats like 10% on one item or other ridiculous extremes. The stats here are enough to give it the kind of boost that Berserker gear has, critical damage, but more towards the aspect that this gear enhances. Of course, full sets will get you more rewarding boosts while hybriding will make these nomenclatures useless. Here are my ideas (somewhat based on coat stats):

Bulwark’s (Damage Suppression)
101 Toughness
72 Vitality
7% Endure (incoming condition damage reduction)

Savior’s (Boon Support)
3% Boon Duration
72 Healing Power
15% Focus (increase boon stacking; need 100% to double stacking)

Undertaker’s (Condition Support)
101 Condition Damage
7% Condition Duration
15% Doom (Increase condition stacking; need 100% for double stacking)

Scout’s (Scouting)
9% Running Speed
9% Swiftness Duration
72 Power

Babylon’s (Rewards)
3% Magic Find
3% Gold Find (increase gold dropped by enemies)
3% Item Find (increase droprate of common and fine items)

To explain the purpose of each of these nomenclatures:

• Bulwark is to make you durable as hell at the cost of little damage potential and healing capabilities. To put it simply, this is the opposite of Berserker….
  Berserker: “WHY WON’T YOU DIE?”
  Bulwarker: “Trolololol!”

• Savior makes your build a support guru so long as you are specced for it BUT defense and offense will be crap. This one could be used to hybrid for support builds, but the last attribute would be wasted since its all or nothing.

• Undertaker. Like Savior except condition based.

• Scout. Makes you more useless than Explorer/Traveler but you get a movement speed boost. It can make scouting and fleeing easier because you will need it if you decide to wear it.

• Babylon makes you way more useless than Explorer/Traveler/Scout does. But hey, at least you get more kitten, amirite? More risk, more reward.

mikefang.4182:

I can sort of agree here; the thief in this game doesn’t -really- feel like the thief or rogue classes of other games. They seem less like actual thieves (known for things like sneaking, lockpicking, disarming traps, stealing, etc.) and more like lightly-armored fighters that focus more on movement and speed than on heavy armor to absorb damage and strength. However, since the classes are really designed so that no class has anything that can’t be done by every other class, I don’t see how this can be changed without seriously rebuilding the class mechanics.

That is why people from both sides of the thief nerf war say that the profession’s mechanics are poorly designed. Some of us don’t even use half of them.

Yes. Testing is always required for every product made.

Be careful. If anet sees this they are going to nerf it.

data.4093:

Zacchary.6183:

Did you know that the moment the Thief gets CCed its game over? I have seen it every time as a thief and against other thieves. Its amazing what constant cripple can do.

<_< You mean…eh nvm…eventually you’ll figure it out…but no, CC isn’t always the end. Play some sPvP and you’ll become uber slippery.

I was talking about WvW specifically but you are right about sPvP.

Shemsu.8721:

In reply to Elthurien

Dont get hung up on the name, it gets annoying when people want to kitten a class because of a name change. The original Dungeons and Dragons class was called thief, not rogue, but had the same skills. Its a name.

By your definition engineers shouldnt even be in game, engineers design things, so shouldnt they be off creating tech for actual soldiers to use. Engineers dont know how to fight.

Engineers also use the equipment they work on or build. They also know how to boop someone on the head with a wrench.

I have killed thieves in stealth. Its so easy to predict their movements in stealth. I have no clue why everyone has such a hard time with it.

I chose human because I am a Charr with a human heart.

Did you know that the moment the Thief gets CCed its game over? I have seen it every time as a thief and against other thieves. Its amazing what constant cripple can do.

Thank you, Isende.

Shezu Tsukai.8291:

So many threads like this… So why start another?

To break the forums.