Guild Wars 2

Fair enough. 1v3 is a bit over the top. 1v2 is doable though. But you mentioned “skilled players,”, and to be fair, it generally won’t matter what profession or build you run, if you run into a player of similar skill on whatever profession and build they run, your in for a tough fight. Which is how it should be in my opinion.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

alchemyst.2165:

lorndarken.3702:

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Actually I’ve done that before, I made a d/d necro and it’s so fun just to 3 shot people with Lich form and Death shroud.

And if I’m not doing that, I have good tankiness, damage even outside of Lich/DS, and leech. Heck, I even remember staying alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 in pvp with d/d at around 10-20% hp for around 1 or 2 minutes straight with no help from allies, and I even managed to kill one of them.

Were they all wearing Clerics amulet or something? D/D necro won’t survive a 1v3 for even 45 seconds against decent players. That’s not to say you have no hope of downing one, but you certianly didn’t last that long against players that were halfway decent.

I think it is a complete load to say you cannot survive in that situation with D/D. I love that weapon set on my necro. I find it exceptionally solid. I admit though, that I would love to see some type of 900 range gap closer on the off hand.

Not sure how your comparing supply crate to lick form. The comparison isn’t even remotely, reasonably close. Not to mention it is completely and pointlessly off topic.

As an engineer main, I do net feel needing the runes is where to start. I feel the thing to start with is IP. I understand that it was designed to assist in compensating for weak auto attacks after they nerfed the pistols in the beta. People have complained about long before the runes were changed. Personally I would be fine with changing it so that it is no longer a passive proc on crit chance, and made into a trait that does something such as a trait that gives the long shield skills a 2s burn on the shield skills when they effect a player with the shields cc or what not.

Cynz.9437:

- every 3rd attack on thief AA chain should go through the block/invul

So long as every third auto attack on the guardians A A chain grants a 6 reveal.

Everything the OP mentions simply promotes more situational awareness and rewards players for paying attention and controlling the flow of combat. Personally I see no problems with any of it.

BurrTheKing.8571:

To be fair, I didn’t attack anyone. It was said that Warriors didn’t deserve any special attention and then a few other gap closers that you rarely ever hear about being an issue were brought up as if they were just as broken.

What do you mean " gap closers that you rarely ever hear about"???

Do you always assume your realm of knowledge applies to the entire community? It may suit everyone if you stick to speaking for your self please. I know I hear about them, and I have multiple professions and see it myself. Not to mention you read about it on the other professions sub forums. If “you” are unaware of their issues, you probably do not visit other sub forums, but you shouldn’t assume the rest of us do not.

BurrTheKing.8571:

It’s just a fact of life that devs can only spend time on so many things. However, I feel that the issues of the skills mentioned in this thread are so painfully broken that it is harming the class much worse than any other leap skills.

So what you are suggesting is that other posters were correct, in suggesting, you actual think your wants and needs supersede those of others?

BurrTheKing.8571:

I never said I don’t want other skills fixed, just that Warrior skills are more borked than any of the gap closers on other classes.

You are mistaken. They are not. As a player who has leveled all of the profession and regularly swaps between them, I can assure you, that you do yourself no favors by making comments of this nature, based on your own personal wants and not the reality of the situation.

For me, I want them ALL fixed. I would presume they all have the same problem, thus need the same fix.

Demanding to everyone who plays warriors as well as other professions, that the warrior requires special attention, makes it appear you support fragmenting the community. Your not a VIP by any means, and something tells me your intentionally demanding the profession you desire to main, deserves special treatment, only to try to bait others.

Sure, someone made this thread in the context of warriors, but to attack posters for suggesting it would be good to look at the problem as a whole, and not in a profession specific manner helps no one. It only serves to bring a negative light to yourself. Particularly when you make it clear your putting effort to make it personal.

So, for the warrior community who play warrior exclusively, I would like to point out that this is a problem amount these type of skills in all professions, and would like to ask that you support them being fixed as a whole.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’ve decided that once again I’m going to go back to ignoring your posts. The discussion never gets anywhere, you accuse me of doing something then do the same thing in the same post, and you’ll switch the topic whenever the argument turns against you. I notice quite a few have already done that it’s just that my hardheadedness prevented me from doing so earlier. I honestly had forgotten that you were the one I decided to ignore in the past.

As to the less hostile and more constructive posters, please continue.

What is so hostile about disagreeing with your opinion, and asking for specific details?

It seems fairly reasonable to ask you to provide some facts as to how something is a problem. You have stayed repeatedly what about it you feel is a problem., but you seem to refuse to provide what to do about it, or to actually support your implication that “everyone is doing it” or that it is a problem beyond the scope of new or inexperienced players.

Let’s bring this down to your personal experience then. What builds do you feel are problematic? When you played those builds, what level of might were you stacking and maintaining, and what were you having to do to maintain them?

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Sinope, ANet has said in the thread on Blix, that intentionally failing events is a playstyle. Both sides are wrong where griefers exist, whether that be calling people names for trying to succeed, or intentionally succeeding events where the only reason it’s being done is to disrupt farming. BOTH are wrong. BOTH. ANet has said that failing is not an exploit. The mechanics of events are just configured wrong when events start too fast after failure. AND, after all the different episodes of players fighting over this GARBAGE, you’d think ANet would maybe be PROACTIVE for once and look at all these things and fix them BEFORE they get to this point? How about that? Hmmmm? Crazy, I know.

They specifically stated that failing “any event” is a play style? Got a link to those specific words?

I do not personally how you are justifying the failing of an event, intentionally, and in an organized manner, in a situation in which a player needs the even completely to advance an aspect of their play. That is in fact griefing. It is stated that “degrading another players experience” is against the rules. I feel you would be hard pressed to justify to a reasonable person, that intentionally failing an event and preventing their personal progressions is not intentionally degrading their experience.

Relentliss.2170:

How about 2 steps?

Remove vulnerability stack
Rooted in place for the cast like Guardian sword #3 or 100 blow

Now there is a real opportunity cost to using the skill.

Although I do not personally feel RF is much of a problem, at least this suggestion gives it a comparative draw back that is similar to other skills of a relative nature.

sinject.4607:

my math for how many grand finalist teams ran an engineer is not inaccurate (feel free to prove it wrong) and neither is the fact that the winning team for NA ran two engineers and EU were the only team to run one out of the four semifinalists. if im dishonest for using facts to prove your anecdotal exaggeration wrong you’re something else entirely then. if you think i’m wrong in using your own argument to prove something then you obviously have to look at your own argument first instead of deciding “well i dont like the way you applied that so it no longer counts”.

I am curious, you offered up a number and proclaimed it as fact. I am neither going to suggest it is accurate nor inaccurate. I would though, ask where you get your number from. Would you mind linking us your source. The list I used, shows more in NA and many less in EU, and even less then that in China. Are you suggesting NA which is only 1/3 of the teams in tournaments, can be used to base your argument? You are making the accusation of “anecdotal”, yet is using NA alone to represent the entirety of the comparative community the definition of “anecdotal” ?

As far as I can tell one of you is claiming one thing, the other is claiming something different. Unless one of you proves it, neither of you have a leg to stand on. They are simply opposing, but unproven claims.

sinject.4607:

funny thing is the main the nerfs i’m calling for towards the actual profession you agree with, while the other two gear issues (celestial/might stacking) are widely agreed on to be problematic and instead of actually countering those arguments you go on a tangent based on what you thought was a direct attack on engineer alone. instead of discussing the topic you dance around it. your username suddenly makes a lot more sense now.

Define widely please? Personally, all I have seen is a very small group spamming post and spamming threads, while cross posting between the threads. Again, for someone who cries fowl and claims “anecdotal”, that is, in my opinion, what your suggestion here appears as.

sinject.4607:

and s/d thief can no longer reliably boonstrip, especially when going against professions that are likely to always have 2-4 boons minimum and have multiple blocks like engineer, s/d thief has been castrated by countless “minor” nerfs and will probably only continue to be nerfed or just left in the dirt. even if there were going to be changes to bring the set back into prime viability i think it’s safe to say we wont see those until september 2015. that being said, please let me know when there’s a debuff for might or other boons that prevents you from stacking/reapplying any more for 3-4 seconds.

Why is it thieves can no longer remove boons? Did they remove Larcenous Strike from S/D ? Did they remove the Bountiful Theft trait?

Why would someone “let you know” when there is a debuff that prevents a player from applying boons? What does that have to do with your suggestion that engineers are OP. It behooves everyone if you stick to the topic at hand.

sinject.4607:

also you missed my point on retal and conditions completely, while retal might affect condition application it circumvents retal in any further damage from the actual condition ticks, which is where most of the damage is going to be coming from usually (also still waiting for a condition equivalent to protection).

I am having difficulty understanding your recent post about retaliation. Let me assist you, by explaining how it works. Retaliation gives a specific amount of damage back to the caster of the skill. All, skills, condition or direct damage. In general, direct damage is all applied at once, and condition damage is applied over time. With condition cleanses factored in, both direct damage and condition damage are reasonably congruent. None of which changes that retaliation effects a skill when it lands, regardless of whether the damage is direct or condition.

sinject.4607:

and no, i don’t play engineer and never have. don’t plan to and don’t want to. absolutely nothing exciting about engineer to me whatsoever. I’ve played every other profession except necro, have plenty of friends who play engineer, played against/dueled against countless engineers, learned the inner workings of engineer by watching high level players/friends play to learn how to beat them; everything but play one- and out of self-respect alone i never will.

To be fair though, you really shouldn’t suggest you know the ins and outs of a profession you never played. It really works strongly against your point. More so, when you post seem to be very representative of someone who does not understand the majority of the profession.

BurrTheKing.8571:

dancingmonkey.4902:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

BurrTheKing.8571:

coglin.1867:

Juba.8406:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Don’t be greedy. lets take this beyond just the warrior profession.

just fix the freaking thing.

I’m greedy now ? for asking simply that my skills actually hits, instead of facepalming ?

A little bit, yeah. Perhaps we could go with fixing all the skills and not just the ones you favor. So yeah, you kind of are greedy the Second your reply was anything short of “good iedea, we really need all of them fixed equally”…….

I think the point is that Warriors are a melee class and when your gap closers don’t work properly you’re more and more inclined to bring a LB. This patch would have oppened some more options for double melee sets but not when Bull’s Charge doesn’t hit the vast majority of the time. There’s no substitute for that skill in particular. On my Engi I don’t HAVE to take Rocket Boots and the like. They should all be fixed, but the ones that are hurting the classes the most should be prioritized.

Thank-you for stating it so diplomatically. After 12 pvp matches using bulls’ rush, shield bash and rush (mace/shield-greatsword) The success rate of all the movements has become noticeably unreliable. At first if you used them in relatively short proximity to how far they could travel they connected often (80%) But currently it seems the skill insists on making its full movement distance before activating the strike. It made running duel melee sets ungainly to use and frustrating.

There is no such thing s a melee profession. As well, your excuse to claim your main profession, should take priority in bug fixes is the opposite of saying anything diplomatically.

Well, let’s look at it this way. Longbow isn’t really a “ranged” weapon because it’s strongest at close-mid range. The rifle is the only real weapon that encourages you to stay at range, and it’s not that great of a weapon. The other five weapon are melee range. Guardian’s have teleports so when I play one it doesn’t pose as much as a problem because teleports are more reliable.

Unreliable gap closers make double melee sets almost unusable. I think lag is a big factor but they broke them on their side as well. If I use a gap closer on a target that isn’t evading or blocking I should ALWAYS HIT. It should not be a roll of the dice. They should be fixed on all classes but Warrior depends on them way more than any other class. I can not take Rocket Boots and still be viable (it doesn’t fail that often for me anyways), my Ranger has a 1500 range bow if Swoop acts up, and Leap of Faith has a cone so it actually hits reliably.

So yes, if ANet has to pick what leap skills to focus on first, Warriors should get it first. If they worked we wouldn’t be forced to use LB on EVERY. STINKIN’. BUILD.

Sorry. I prefer to use facts, over twisting reality with a “let’s look at it this way” style of reality warp. We both know your bias in this case. No need to try to talk in circles to convince ever one that your main profession actually deserved special treatment. I can offer a convincing argument for every profession as to why they deserve there’s fixes. Although they may haves less wholes then I feel your argument has.

Rusc.4978:

You both mention the audio/visual indicators of stealth skills. Which stealth applicators are unfair and/or lack a cue? In case you are unsure about which stealth-application skill is which for Thieves:

I do not recall mentioning anything about visual. I was speaking purely in the context of audio. To my knowledge the only visual cue mentioned in this thread, was someone expressing changes to the icon that currently exist.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Rusc.4978:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Metal gear detected sound when revealed

!

Works for me.

As long as all stealth or stealth combos have a 1s delay before stealth applies, and we get an audio indicator that gives a 1s opportunity to counter with a skill that applies reveal.

It shouldnt take any longer than it already does for thieves to stealth. They’re annoying as hell but invisibility is their armor. reveal is a debuff to their armor, and they deserve to be notified when debuffed, just like races already comment on the state of their conditions when they receive one.

So it is “deserves” now is it? As I see it, you had better have purchased everyone’s copy of the game for them, before you would have any right to tell everyone what anyone “deserves”.

You keep posting in such definitives. So the counter to that would be, that since stealth is a counter to the vast majority of skills in the entire game, the larger portion of the community deserves an audio cue to offer a chance to counter it long before you deserve an audio cue that it is countered. So it seems rather fair that the majority gets reasonably congruent treatment to what you are claiming that the minority deserves.

Well the only other option was to buff other professions. Given the fact that it creates a power creep, and the favt that they want to prevent a power creep, it appears to me to be a reasonable discission.

Does it not seem a bit hypocritical to you that your making your argument of an anti-nerfing perspective for an entirely different profession, on a thread about needing another profession?

I am curious, if your concerned about condition removal, since you mentioned it specifically, how many hours have you spent on the engineer? And how do you feel the condition removal compares?

I can get behind the idea that IP is a problem. It is by far the highest damage on crit trait out there.

Every other issue being mentioned here has 2 problems that seem to accompany their mentioning that prevent me from taking them seriously. Either the poster issuing the complaint is dishonest by suggesting the speak for the entire community, and tries to misrepresent that to push their own agenda, and posters refuse to articulate any reasoning to support their claims.

Anyone can hop on any of the “hipster” “XXX is OP” threads and just type, yup, such and such is OP. It doesn’t even remotely make it true. Unless you actually make a reasonable argument, your simply setting a precedence for other to be reluctant to take you seriously in future threads as well as the current one. As well, you cannot simply make a claim based on how something “feels” or “felt” to you. You should actually test it out yourself, and even spend a few second doing some very basic, elementary level math. It is not like we are asking for the world from you, but if you cannot offer a logical reasoning, then you are proving the point against your own argument.

TheBandicoot.5294:

Wait what? What should i prove which is not already proven? look around! Why are so many people playing condition tanks when they´re so inferior according to your math? Its because the are not inferior. Its because they are effective vs bunkers and zerkers.

I dont need math to understand that. I invested about 3k hours into roaming and dueling. Math doesnt do kitten in such a volatile environment because its just theory, but the active combat throws way too many unknown variables into the mix. Just to be clear – i´d have to research it first. But after so long time playing i guess i can pretty much use my existing experience as an argument.

When you even see guardians (!) go condition damage, then you know somethign is seriously wrong in the balance of power vs conditions.

The system is flawed in its entirety. While Conditions are inferior to power in big group compositions and group PvE content, they get more and more effective the smaller the composition is. That needs to be changed. Smallscale conditions have to be nerfed while zerging conditioners need help. Making conditions rely on precision and critical damage won´t fix the latter. but it would balance them in 5v5 and below.

Similarly, generations of human s proclaimed the sun revolved around the earth based on their life times of experience. Math proved other wise.

No one is claiming conditions are not stronger in very small scale situations. We are simply suggesting they are not as strong as you claim. This is based on a combination of things. Our experiences. Reasonably presented math on the matter in the form of damage out put comparisons. As well as videos made to present how direct damage is superior when used correctly.

Your the one who came to the thread and started throwing the term “fact” around. In my opinion, the fact that you made an effort to avoid presenting any actual information to support your suggestion, is in itself, very strong evidence to counter your point. We have previously had this discussions. Please feel free to look up the previous discussion threads with break down of our opinions, the videos, and the math behind it. If you still disagree, then we simply have various opinions in this area. I simply feel myself and other present a better case then you do.

Yes WvW is the only time servers matter.

I leveled all 8 professions in WvW. So yes it is a viable way to level.

Sounds like Warrior would interest you more then guardians. That is just a educated “hunch” though.

I did 100% map completion and the full personal story on 1 profession. I am not much of a PvE player, but I feel it is well worth it to do the living story and personal story. As well, I feel it is worth it to do all of the world bosses at least once. Most of them look cool and are fun enough battles to be worth a visit.

I am a fan of the gethering. It is easy and free XP and the money you make from the gathered items adds up.

You can level almost purely from crafting. There are some good guides on the topic. With a decent guide and the money built up ahead of time, I was able to cap each craft to 400 in 30ish minutes or less per craft. As well, it is the most effective way to aquire a fill set of ascended gear.

I hope my short and direct approach to your questions are helpfull.

Belzebu.3912:

Currently you have Vit to rise your HP and Tou to rise your armor, you have invulnerability/block/dodge to counter direct damage, and cond cleanse for conditions.

If you changed Tou to not rise armor, how would you rise it? Heavy classes would have more advantage over the rest.

Are you suggesting that no invulnerability to condition application exist, or that dodging and blocking attacks does not prevent them from being applied?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

TheBandicoot.5294:

Toughness is fine as it is. Problem is the way people think stats do work. Going conditions allows you to be tanky and do lots of damage. And please, guys – its a matter of FACT they do too much damage in too short time for their tankyness. Keep equations out of the way, they simply dont reflect what happens in real environment. And thats what matters. There´s a reason why smallscale is dominated by conditions.

So Guyver is right in some part. Its not toughness which is in need of a change. Its condition damage. Reduce their damage, make them able to crit in order to force a conditioner to be squishy for the amount of damage he can dish out. Or introduce more frequently usable cleanses and update existing ones to account for the stupidly increased amount of conditions flying around including the new one.

Vitality itself ain´t a counter for conditions because vitality also has to cover direct damage. Also, if you stack vitality, you have to forgo damage output, which in turn means you won´t bring down any bunker or condition tank. The current system is flawed.

Just saying, but if the math doesn’t back you up, then it’s not a “matter of fact.” Math is literally as factual as you can possibly get.

Exacly. If your going to make claims, and let’s not dance around it, a claim is all that it is, you owe it to yourself to support with favt. Otherwise you should have the awareness to know you will be written off imediately. Particularly when many many others have argued the opposite side of the argument and solidly proven you wrong as far as u am concerned.

Guyver.1426:

As the stat of toughness have to redo, the stat of gears have to change too. All gears should be high damage but low toughness and vice versa.

Now, the whole forum is crying every class is OP because different kind of damages are too over. It can’t be solved by skill balance without end. Only introducing new toughness stat can solve the problem.

Your idea will cut 50% of the already limited build diversity out of the game instantly. No change, buff, nerf, or any adjustment of any kind will ever come close to even remotely swing down the QQ about builds, skills, or profession’s being OP. That is just a simple fact of every multiplayer game forums that will always exist. This is a very bad proposal, and I hope you come to understand why.

shimmerless.4560:

I don’t really get your self-masochism to be honest. You don’t see other mains offering themselves up on the pyre with, “Well I’d like this change but it might be a bit much, we still need to offer counterplay, this is enough, let’s be happy”, run into any Ele/Thief/Nec/whatever thread and it’s all ArenaNet hates us for being too beautiful please give us more stuff thanks. I dunno what’s the point of being reasonable any more? Players in this game don’t want balance, they want their preferred character to be a special snowflake, I only knew one true multi-class player (GW1 vet) and he left a long time ago.

Functionally it isn’t fine, swap deactivating on clone death makes it terribly unreliable and it killed off one of the skill’s advantages which was swap mind games.

The key is similar to most builds on most professions. You need to have battle and situation awareness, so that you do not use skills in a manner that minimizes them in battle. You can double tap the key linked to the kill to spawn the clone, then to follow up and swap with it, very, very quickly. In my experience, if your clone is dieing in that very small amount of time, you either spent entirely too much time waiting to utilize the swap, or are not utilizing enough situational awareness. At least those are the only reasons I ever find it to be an issue.

To what Lucentfir was saying. Although I do not disagree with your statement about IP, I do disagree with you statement about blocks, los, and dodges. The skills that apply the conditions can be blocked, dodged, and los. As far as I am concerned, they need to change IP to something else altogether.

The reason necros are so hard counter like to engineers is not due to the necros ability to clear or redirect conditions. It is because engineers have the most limited access to condition clears in usable builds compared to the other professions.

shimmerless.4560:

No I’m not “clearly misinformed” Coglinmonkey, I said over the course of the game they have been one of the most predominant runes. The only reason they’ve fallen out of favor with Engineers is that there are even more borked options available (Balth).

What deal the past have to do with now? As they are not predominant now, how can you claim they are currently OP based on out dated issues that no longer exist.

By the way, why do you fling a personal name calling insult at me simply because I pointed out that almost no one has been using them in tournaments since they did the rune revamp and fixed the bug with the rune set?

Now you are simply miss informed. We have watched many t PvP tournaments that have been going on over many of the last few weekends. 2 things were noticeable. One is that necros were on many teams. The second was that in the several hundred players, only 8 of them used these runes in any given tourney with more then 24 teams. Therefore you are clearly either unaware of the favts, or being disingenuous about the use of them in tPvP.

For example, you mention teldo. What does one single player have to do with the topic to represent your claim that it is abused by many? Do you even know the last time he actually us ed them in tPvP? I am going to guess you do not, or you wouldn’t be using old examples to represent what you claim are current issues. When less then 4% are using them in current tournament’s, it doesn’t lend much credence to what your trying to claim about them being over used.

The only place they can possibly be considered over used is in random solo queue. And if you cannot beat a player there, it had nothing to do with the runes.

Blast finishers are one of the engineers strong methods of team support for both waters for heals and fire for might. As you appear to be putting the concept down, in an effort to make a back handed comment to another poster, I must offer your team mates my sympathies that you seem to think it is a bad thing. You should learn to use field and finishers for support. It is a team game after all.

Caedmon.6798:

Don’t be so grumpy because most condi builds are easy cheese mode,and you playing one feeling offended.It’s just the truth,apply condi’s..run around like a headless chicken and still win cus of high condi ticking while no need to even be close to your target.While double melee builds are relying on heavily telegraphed skills and the need to be in somebody’s face and actually have to make sure not to waste a skill.Limited skill level is needed for condi builds.

I actually find this post somewhat comical. I have a 80 of each profession, and they were all leveled almost exclusively in WvW with a little SPVP mixed in I literally run a power build with no focus on conditions in any of them. Yet I have little difficulty with condition builds in battle as a whole. Your attempts at backhanded insult seem to support my position, as you clearly chose to resort to those, over the option of discussing actual damage out put comparisons or builds and play skull to avoid heavy condition application skills.

If your having difficulty with condition builds, please feel free to PM me with the builds that are problematic for you. I would gladly discuss strategy and build adjustment with you in an effort to aid you in your specific areas of difficulty.

I rather enjoy this mentality myself. It makes it very enjoyable when i walk away from the OPs corpse since i know how easy condition builds are to counter. Then their next thread is one claiming the professuon he got beat with is OP.

Sure condi builds are solid in 1v1. They are by no means a grunted win. Add a Seco d or third player in the mix and your condition build is neutered. It is kind of cute how posters here actually believe condition builds are actually OP though. Particularly when asked to prove it. You guys run from presenting facts like a cat runs from a bath. Perhaps you should shift your mentality from assumption based on limited experience into factual reality.

Alas, it is the forums, so assumptions, and claims based on a limited skill level will always trump reality in the thread makers eyes.

AnonMD.7263:

In the first clip, it ends before you see him get murdered.

Well, you are inevitably going to be killed in outnumbered situations in WvW. I find trouble finding fault with how many he killed before being (air quotes) murdered. Do you have evidence that he didn’t get away or are you making assumptions?

AnonMD.7263:

In the second, it shows him using a gate portal to buy a little time and space before heading back in

Well duh. It fairly common to have to duck back into your keep when fighting in an extremely out numbered situation. It is common sense.

AnonMD.7263:

stomps with an exploit

This has been declared an exploit officially? When did this happen?

AnonMD.7263:

finally ends up getting help to finish the fight.

Over stating the obvious aren’t you? Do you have better footage of yourself of in a 1v10 ?? Seems a bit harsh to me to ridicule the play given the outnumbered situation.

AnonMD.7263:

The third is him running from a zerg, and while he does get a few kills, they’re on uplevels.

Care to list the total number there compared to the up levels? 10 up levels when you are fighting 30 people wit ha single group seems well played regardless. Wouldn’t you agree?

AnonMD.7263:

tldr; the guy is a good necro, and shows that teamwork is OP.

Team work is the defining reason of success in most out numbered battles in my opinion.

AnonMD.7263:

Also, Necro’s shouldn’t require teamwork to be worth a kitten. I’d like to do some solo content every now and then.

Teamwork isn’t required. It is only necessary in outnumbered battled similar to what was shown. Plenty of content can be soloed on a necro as well as and professions.

Cynz.9437:

- no, my point is that you have more than enough time to react to effect of those procs (by clearing them, mitigating, healing etc), with rune of nightmare you either have condi cleanse/stun break or die… there is not really much time to react or choices

Your point? Do you mean your opinion? Because As I see it, your point is incorrect. You have to cleanse poison or die too. You have to cleanse any condition or dies for that matter. You are simply trying to pretend it only exist for fear in my opinion. Unlike the other conditions, fear can be negated with stability, and both cleansed or stun broken. Your suggestion that fear must be broken or you die is not factual. Particularly when you attempt to suggest it is not the case with other conditions.

Cynz.9437:

- the effect from strengh etc. runes can be completely negated if you dodge/go invul vs buffed attack, you can’t escape the effect of fear at all unless you popped stab before hitting someone with those runes… so with dodges i can escape part of the passive runes buff, but i will get hit by fear no matter what, it is 100%

You are not accurate here. You are going to negate damage with that list of damage avoidance skills either way. If A player has no runes of strength, you will still do all of those things. What your going out of your way to pretend doesn’t exist, is that the damage increase on the skills that would land in either case, is very significant. More so then you will get out of these runes every 90s. As well in the case of other runes, they can effect AoE damage, nightmare do not. The proc on these runes do not do any damage what so ever on their own.

Cynz.9437:

- the set itself is not problematic, it is just the 6th bonus or rather the way it interacts with enemy

Cynz.9437:

- so just because condis can stack up to 25 stacks there should be condi runes that offer passive unblockable CC? i am not saying such direct dmg runes should be added, i am just brining an example how silly it would be

Unblock able? So if I have aegis up, the proc goes through it?

Cynz.9437:

- condi supposed to be dot hence why condi builds are usually pretty sturdy however the way the balance is and the way condis work atm in pvp, you can burst someone down pretty fast even with condis as long as you have access to burning, torment, fear (in necro case), confusion etc….

None of that has anything to do with your question about conditions being front loaded. Either you truly did not know, or you were being sarcastic, in which case you did not actually understand. Direct damage is front loaded, conditions are absolutely not. As well I see you listed fear for a damaging condition. fear does not innately do damage. So please stop claiming it does.

Cynz.9437:

my personal issue with proc:

you can blind or interrupt fear usually

however even if i blind/stun person wearing rune i still get feared because rune doesn’t take into account blind

Yeah but a player can generally blind or interrupt applications of long bleeds, confusions, poisons, burning, chill, attacking flocks of birds, torment, and so on and so forth, but they can all be applied by hitting a player with a specific rune set. That is without even going into sigils.

Yet some of you feel these runes are specifically OP and the others are not? Would you mind rationalizing the hypocritical logic behind the thought process that makes these a specific problem?

Some of you have posted on the forums for 2 years and never said a word on this matter, then some one makes a thread and I see many of you jumping on the band wagon. Some of whome I have specifically seen posting in defense procs when they favor your mains or builds.

Bubi.5237:

Scoring system. (PPT)

Works great. In what way does it not work? It is pretty basic. Take and defend and hold more stuff, you get more points.

Bubi.5237:

Matchmaking/Tournament system. (Heavy dependency on scoring system)

Well Duh………….How else should it work?

Bubi.5237:

Rewarding system. (Gold’n’Achies)

What aspect of the reward system are you complaining about exactly?

[quote=4431151;Bubi.5237:][quote=4431151;Bubi.5237:][quote=4431151;Bubi.5237:][quote=4431151;Bubi.5237:]

yolo swaggins.2570:

Swamurabi.7890:

How about a forum rule that deletes any “X is OP” threads unless the player attaches their gameplay video so the community can debate whether “X” is OP or whether the player needs to change the way they play. Said video must also show build/traits to allow for informed discussion.

It might be enough to trigger discussion but the point is proof. To prove that something is too strong, the OP needs to provide evidence involving all factors into their hypothesis.

There is no other way.

The problem as I see it, is that everyone who makes a thread here has a bad habit of making definitive claims. You never see someone make a thread and simply suggest they feel something might be over powered. They simply make rant threads, proclaim something as OP as if it were a cold hard fact, and are completely close minded when it comes to any opposing argument. Which simply invites more close minded claimers.

Bran.7425:

Not reasonable enough or it would have been included in the last balance patch. Using your logic then most of the channel skills in the game need a similar treatment as the cast time were not reduce either.

What makes hundred blades so deserving of such an adjustment (other than you want it)?

I have to ask the same question. I am just not seeing any reasonable arguments made for it. I would be in favor or removing the fact that the channel breaks if you move, as I dislike anything that forces immobility in this game with its mobility focused combat.

Xyonon.3987:

Run whatever you enjoy. You should just have fun ingame But if you are one of those who have fun by being utmost efficient, you will need grenades. They have a huge passive damage, best vuln stack, burst, utility, range.

Actually, if you target utmost efficiency, you will need grenades. The bomb kit out damages the grenade kit.

Yeah I have problems with almost all of these skills across the board. Swoop seems to me to be the least problematic. While rocket boots seemed to have developed more bugs in the last patch.

shimmerless.4560:

coglin.1867:

shimmerless.4560:

Yeah these runes need 100% to be removed, they’re actually worse than they used to be, if your build hinges on random hard CC then tough luck, won’t be sorry to see it go.

Similarly to how they need to remove traits such as defy pain and dogged March because they negate damage and soft CC without any action taken. How are you cherry picking what passive effects you are against? We have runes that create damage and poisons healing negation. On the other side we have things like healing signet and transmute, that negate damage and CC. Singling out specific passive aspects in itself, negates your own argument.

I’m not cherry picking anything, this thread is titled “Rune of Nightmare balance” and it is about Nightmare runes genius, and I’ve in fact said before that transmute is a horrible passive. I don’t really care what Coglin the unranked forums warrior thinks of my argument anyone else you talk to in this game who has a head on their shoulders will tell you fearlocking is lame and Nightmare runes are even lamer. They’ve been changed before because the devs acknowledged they were a problem and what they should’ve done is just removed them full stop because the design is whack at the core.

I can appreciate that it in the threads title. That does take away from my opinion that these runes are no better, and more so, no worse then most other runes and many traits. With that in mind, I feel a broader scope of conversation on the matter is deserved. I am of the camp that feels they simply add more flavor, as many of the other runes do. As well, it brings more context to the discussion to speak of the runes in a broader scope.

They are no worse then runes that proc poison and mitigate healing, nor are they more passive then runes that offer power and precision, or even ferocity. Because the added damage from those runes is no more negotiable then the fear proc from these runes are.

shimmerless.4560:

Yeah these runes need 100% to be removed, they’re actually worse than they used to be, if your build hinges on random hard CC then tough luck, won’t be sorry to see it go.

Similarly to how they need to remove traits such as defy pain and dogged March because they negate damage and soft CC without any action taken. How are you cherry picking what passive effects you are against? We have runes that create damage and poisons healing negation. On the other side we have things like healing signet and transmute, that negate damage and CC. Singling out specific passive aspects in itself, negates your own argument.

SlimChance.6593:

Sebrent.3625:

Heck, I’m surprised Mesmer’s Mirror of Anguish hasn’t been included in here yet … you CC me and I get to automatically CC you too … I did nothing :-p

I was wondering when someone would point this out. And you are correct, the Mesmer does nothing and you are CC’d. However, currently, this is how Mirror of Anguish works. When you CC the Mesmer, BOTH the Mesmer AND the caster are CC’d. There is no “upper hand” and this is why you never see this trait in PvP. Yeah, its in that “grey area”, though.

If it actually did “reflect” the CC back to the caster, leaving the Mesmer untouched, then I would total agree that it too should not exist in PvP.

As far as your other points, with those I, as a player do not lose control of my character because of it. Yes they are passive and the wearer doesn’t have to do anything to gain a benefit from it. But my point with Nightmare runes is the “LOSING CONTROL when the enemy did nothing” aspect.

Bias much?

Your being particularly hypocritical here. It is irrelevant if the mesmer gets CC’d. The fact is that the opponent is CC’d and the mesmer does nothing to activate it. Justify it any way you want, but it doesn’t make it any better. Your condemning one and justifying the other. That makes it very clear that you do not want to solve the problem you proclaim exist. You simply want the aspect that effects you negatively on a personal level. You can either be okay with both existing or shun both.

sinject.4607:

it’s just obnoxious. it’s overeffective passive gameplay that has literally no counterplay other than “don’t hit your opponent”. you can react to the effects, but you can’t actually react to the proc. if runes of the mesmer got a 2.5-3.5 second stun on the 6th that rewarded you for just getting hit you’d see people up in arms.

either reduce the duration, add a broadcast that tells you the runes have been proc’d and gives you some time to react, make the fear have a pbaoe range, or lower the proc chances.

Well, to start, I question your sincerity here. I would be willing to wager my first born (I don’t like him much anyway) that you do not use these runes on all of your 80s. If they are so OP, why don’t you? Speaking of passive counterplay, how does one counter the increased dazed duration or the increased damage that it’s precession offers? You are being unrealistic is what passive functionalities you pick and chose to be okay with here.

Warrior is not a melee profession.

You may be using melee builds yourse l , but it is very factually not a melee class. Wd b have rifles and long bows. What I am curious sbout. Is why you are trying to justify onlysolving these Iissues for the warrior over the idea of fixing them all.

Juba.8406:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Don’t be greedy. lets take this beyond just the warrior profession.

just fix the freaking thing.

I’m greedy now ? for asking simply that my skills actually hits, instead of facepalming ?

A little bit, yeah. Perhaps we could go with fixing all the skills and not just the ones you favor. So yeah, you kind of are greedy the Second your reply was anything short of “good iedea, we really need all of them fixed equally”…….

Personally, 90s seems like an entirely too lengthy cd. Personally I find this no more or less exploitive then runes that stack a condition such as chill.

This is what we always called “throwing logic at an illogical situation”.

Mind clarifying what is L2P about it?

How specifically are you suggesting players are playing that causes this trait to be an issue?

Please share your wisdom?

Warlord.9074:

The Adrenaline changes killed this profession. Was fighting a thief he blinked away. Lost all adrenaline, then got rekt.

ANET you just killed your own game. Whoever Okayed these changes should be fired. And your whole balance testing team should be as well.

This is the exact same problem that every other profession has when a thief resets a fight after some of their key resources to fight them are exhausted.

The change was reasonable. The benefits of maintaining adrenaline were ones that no other profession had. To claim someone should be fired for that is extremely ridiculous.

I do not know what you do for a living. I can tell you that if a single customer, who knew nothing about your business, suggested that you be fired for a change that is rational to the vast majority of your customer base, you would likely laugh at them.

evilapprentice.6379:

I feel as though your irrational hatred for the class has really diminished your ability to make sound, logical suggestions. Perhaps you should take a break from making suggestions concerning mechanics you don’t understand fully until you’ve worked through that.

If it’s ok for the game to have abilities that specifically target stealth, then it’s ok to have cues for when stealth has been specifically targeted.

You are projecting your misconceptions into it.

You are being very one sided yourself. You justify everything in pure favor of thieves. By your own justification, if you get a cue that stealth is targeted, why are you against a cue for players targeted for damage from the cover of stealth?

Rusc.4978:

I congratulate you on the dedication it took to go through every post in my post history, especially the ones prior to yesterday that were 1 year+ old.

Umm, I think he was making fun of your, er, umm……..less then stellar reputation, from your sometimes unrealistic past suggestions in favor of thieves. Particular after you mention several other profession.

I see you dodged the question about your time and experience in each of the professions. How long have you played the professions you mentioned?

No, just no.

The last thing thieves need in PvP or WvW is UI changes that cater to them.

I mean I am with the idea of giving a visual cue of illuminating a stealthed player for the duration of the cast time of any skill they use from stealth. While we are at it, can we change backstabs cast time from 1/4 to 1/2 for this. Also we need to add a cast time to tactical strike, sneak attack, and steal is too strong traited, it definitely needs a cast visual to allow counter play. All of which illuminate you with a visual cue to your target, while you are in stealth, during the cast time, of each skills can actually be blocked or dodged.

We do that, and then I would be all for your idea.

It is sure says a lot when if your against allowing cue’s so others do not waste dodges, blocks, and what not, trying to guess when they will get hit. Yet you want to be catered to so that you wouldn’t accidentally waste your resources by trying to stealth……………………..

BurrTheKing.8571:

AnonMD.7263:

BurrTheKing.8571:

AnonMD.7263:

words

more words

some other words

Worse. Even though with the trait is could almost be a full cleanse, it doesn’t heal enough for that CD for it to be useable.

Actually both heals are quite good. The problem is we are completely spoiled on the signet. And to be honest, there is not reason not to use it.

Black Box.9312:

They are listing off their personal experiences. Coming in here and saying “You’re an idiot and you’re wrong” doesn’t win you the argument and just makes you look like an kitten .

Let me make sure I am understanding what your saying. Posters have popped in here, and made claims and accusations based on their perceptions from their experiences. They go out of their way to mention a single fact. No mention of the profession they were on. No mention of there build. Yet you feel this empowers you to intentionally and rudely claim someone said something they did not?

Would you mind quoted the post in which those words were used?

I have to ask you, were all of the previous threads over the last 3 months not good enough for you? Did you even spend any time looking through them? We had 2-3 posters did damage break downs of both power and condi builds. We had multiple posters get together and do comparison videos.

lets see, on one hand we have random posters making claims, who avoid direct questions, and refuse to mention any actual facts or stats. On the other we have a community who has had this discussion multiple times. Done test. Listed the results. Video recorded it. Posted their finding here.

You can paraphrase, insult, and put words in other peoples mouth all you like. It will in no way, ever, make your untested perception convince those who actually put it to test both on paper and in the field.

No one called you or any one else an idiot. They simply informed you that they felt you were wrong, and stated why.