Guild Wars 2

PredatoR.5247:

I don’t know what your leadership spoon fed you, but we did not cancel the Guild vs Guild. You guys introduced a new rule where “Ghost Tonic isn’t allowed” out of the blue.

Wrong.

Our fight was to be under the same conditions as the first one. No ghost tonics were used then, thus none would be used in the rematch.

I am sorry you don’t see the absolute absurdity of everyone running around in ghost form……

PredatoR.5247:

covenn.7165:

PredatoR.5247:

Would have been fine, if this was mentioned along with the initial rules last wednesday.
Not after you lost 2/3 on tuesday night.

Tired of this [TW] “Do it our way or the highway” attitude.

Don’t claim victory in a scrimmage, it is in extremely poor taste. It is kinda like claiming you are the best because you won of a preseason football game when that starters aren’t even in 3/4ths of the game and the coaches don’t want to give any of their real plays away.

Didn’t claim we were the best, I’d rather not be #1, that way we have the motivation to keep getting better. I was simply stating we beat them the night before and the lack of reasoning for refusing to Guild vs Guild. Don’t be so hasty into making assumptions. Also spend more time on your post, I had to read it 4 times to understand what you were implying.

I didn’t make an assumption, the victory claim is right there in the quoted text for all to see. You brought up scrimmage results on a forum and that alone speaks for itself. It is in extreme poor taste.

I apologize if you didn’t get the American football reference if you are from elsewhere. It was quite clear to the NA community that follows sports though.

Beannie.5982:

For fairness, either have everyone use tonics, or strike it off completely.

Funny that you should mention that.

We actually talked about just going ahead with their request to change it up from our first match up and use the tonics (each and every one of us were going to use them). The problem we had with it was the absolute absurdity of it all.

Azure.8412:

Cool video. Gotta say, I completely understand where TW is coming from. The tonics do give you some kind of advantage as it would be tough to see the different classes. However, I think TW should have stated it earlier.

It was stated in a round about way as it was supposed to be a rematch with the exact same conditions. The fights were so close and so hard to call, why anyone would want to change it up at the last minute is beyond me.

Cancelling a GvG because you couldn’t use ghost tonics was kind of disrespectful of everyone’s time. Unfortunately, most of TW had work to go to in the morning and we already had to be up late just to fight. Honestly, I already put up with my own impetulant teenager’s issues and I don’t want to deal with it in game too.

PredatoR.5247:

Would have been fine, if this was mentioned along with the initial rules last wednesday.
Not after you lost 2/3 on tuesday night.

Tired of this [TW] “Do it our way or the highway” attitude.

Don’t claim victory in a scrimmage, it is in extremely poor taste. It is kinda like claiming you are the best because you won of a preseason football game when that starters aren’t even in 3/4ths of the game and the coaches don’t want to give any of their real plays away.

Nobody on SoR cares about the jump puzzles. In fact, most of us resent the people that take up queue spots that our guild members could have instead that are actually WvWing.

Kathy K.6812:

JQ puts in such a huge push that it makes the other servers think you’re still playing to be 1st. Sorry for making an incorrect assumption.

Your only incorrect assumption is this one. I know for a fact JQ plays for first all the time.

oxide.8324:

SoR stacked on a 12k lead in less than 24 hrs. Now that is PvD

Its a shame you don’t come out during NA prime time. We tacked on more than 3k just during my short play time last night. I know you have the people.

25% base chance is perfectly acceptable if you always have fury up.

Range vs. Melee vs. Intermediate affects sustainability, which increases/decreases the effectiveness of healing/Tough/Vitality themselves on sustainability. Sustainability directly impacts ability to do damage in a fight outside of initial burst. All this without taking into consideration play ability or traits/utilities.

Minor example:

Staff + good mitigation via play will allow that player to sacrifice toughness/vitality/heal power (in regards to self only… might want it for group support) in lieu of power/precision/crit dmg.

Daggers + poor mitigation from play mean toughness/vitality/heal power must come at the sacrifice of damage. Dead people do no damage….

Zelyhn.8069:

I would not say that precision is more important than critical damage. To an extent you are right, but there is no direct link in the allocation of stats between the two, so the ratio may vary and it makes comparison more likely to be inaccurate. Also their effectiveness is interdependent.

Abilities/Procs based off of crits greatly influences actual worth of crit damage vs. crit chance as well.

Kodiak.3281:

Nothing really new here.

That and it isn’t even optimized.

Vapour form is one of many things that is whined about and you are right about that particular one coming from WvW. (hasn’t been nerfed yet though). Most of the other whines and resulting nerfs have been a result of sPvP imo.

Why they chose to nerf in both places some of the things they did, I will never understand. The style of game play is quite different. Something that is OP in WvW might not even be viable in sPvP …and vice versa.

PinCushion …I havent tried out that fire trait, but are you saying when you blast a fire field you are giving fury to other people?

Fishbait.6723:

Someone looking after the carebears in WvWs that never learned to equip an immob` spell.

It was the whining from the carebears in sPvP that lead to all the class nerfs. Please keep it real.

Reborn, it isnt downed state that causes it… it is the entire design of the game. They way boons, AoE, and combos works is the problem combined with the fact that there is no trinity (well at least no dedicated healing class).

You have to blob to get boons, you have to blob to trivialize AE damage (conversely uncapped AoE would force people to spread out), and you have to stack to get any sort of real healing in combat.

July 19th would be a huge snooze fest because SoR would be ticking away at 500+ most of the time and would be up by 200k+ by the end of the week against those servers. All three servers in that matchup will not be having an optimal play experience.

August 2nd might actually be a nice match between bg/tc/sor

If it would keep people out of jump puzzles in WvW permanently, I would grief them nonstop. They never ever should have been put into WvW zones.

shox.3971:

I main an ele, have 100% world complete and am working towards my legendary. But I don’t get it, why all the complaining, is there a dps meter im not seeing? Are you dying a lot? I for one NEVER die. I am an ele how can i die? I never get kicked from groups, and seem to do fine both pvp and pve. So what is the big deal? Mainly staff eles i see the most complaining about, i used to be staff and never found anything wrong with it (I’m s/d now since i like the spells better, more fast paced). So can somebody please explain to me how we are “underpowered”?

Not trying to rude, but the simple fact that you listed world completion and not getting kicked out of PvE groups as an accomplishment means you aren’t a serious WvW or sPvP player. Most of the complaints about the class are generated from those two areas, not from playing against scripted AI.

Raw data vs. how that data is applicable to actual game play can be vastly different.

Except the Devs are quite clueless about playing an ele. If you had watched the live stream, you would realize this. If all played the way the devs wanted us to, we would be just about worthless across the board.

multivira.7925:

I’ve gotten 2 precursors in 38,717 kills, if that helps you any. Lost track of all the exotics and rares though.

Lucky you.

0 precursors in 96,173 kills.

I played a game a decade ago without server lag that had uncapped AoE, way more abilities than this game, and vastly more complex game play …all this along with much larger scale fights.

stof.9341:

They could also greatly reduce skill lag by removing 90% of the AoE skills in the game and we’d probably have a better gameplay in the end.

That would encourage even more blobbing.

TGSlasher.1458:

@coven & BlackBeard
People called OP because some D/D players specced glass cannon and wiped the floor with an enemy expecting a bunker and wet noodle damage.

Oh I agree. People were definitely confusing bunker with cannons and combing the two. The resulting changes were due to the devs listening to the whines instead of paying attention to reality.

I want to apologize to the ele community though, because I believe I am responsible for one of our class changes. Killed an ANET tagged player several times the same way, and the very next day a stealth nerf (bug fix) went it. No more abusing that summoned weapon for me :p

stof.9341:

Grimwolf.7163:

If removing the AoE cap isn’t an option, maybe add back body blocking.
I thought it was full blown kittened when they announced that wouldn’t be in GW2.
Then it would be literally impossible to stack on top of each other. Even trying to stay excessively close would make it too difficult to move.

If you think skill lag is bad, wait until they add body blocking and the game becomes a turn by turn strategy game where each player makes his move sequentially.

No doubt. The amount of calculations for that would blow anything AoE related out of the water.

DevonCarver.5370:

Just wanted to hop in and mention, again, that the AoE cap on player skills is a technical limitation. Were we to increase that, skill lag would get considerably worse.

See, poor design and coding. Thanks for confirming what I have been saying for a long time. With that said, is there any current effort to optimize the code so we can at least be skill lag free with the AoE limit in place? It makes the game kitten near unplayable at times. I little communication on the subject would be beneficial instead of the silence.

So why do we want condition damage again given that it is easier to remove faster than an ele can reapply.

I don’t even play my thief because I can literally slap my kitten all over the keyboard and still kill most people.

Redscope.6215:

A highly mobile bunker breaks the game period. You’ve missed the point of the nerf entirely. Bunkers should not be able to give chase, its part of their balance. They win, they don’t chase.

Actually, it is you who missed the point.

The RTL change didn’t nerf bunkers. It nerfed mobility on a class the requires it to stay alive because we have the lowest base survivability in the game. This means that everyone that isn’t a bunker actually took a much bigger nerf than the builds you claim needed it the most.

Anyways, bunkers were never OP to begin with. Most of the complaints came from people not getting kills because the ele ran away, not because the ele was owning people left and right. Bunkers could kill people for sure and was nasty 1v1, but they hit like wet noodles and took a LONG time doing it.

Shar.3402:

It is intended, Churning Earth cripples at each pulse, if you get interrupted before the first cripple hits, it will go into the normal 5s interrupt cd. Same as when you get interrupted while channeling Ether Renewal, the spell got cast, even if partially, so it goes into full cd.

Agreed that it is intended. The only issue is that the skill is poorly designed and requires lightning flash to hit people with it unless facing mindless opponents.

Redscope.6215:

I’m waiting for all the bunker ele, OP class only players to switch to troll thieves and get those nerfed. That’ll be at least a couple months yet, but man will it be sweet.

The only people that complained about bunker eles were bad players. Sure they were nasty 1v1, but even at their height of ability were still not even close to where guardians are now in overall effectiveness.

Shar.3402:

ARM.3912:

The Goat.1940:

Demon.5082:

I would not say Elementalists are garbage since we do have it better than some classes. Sadly, our build diversity is down the toilet with fire/earth just not being as powerful as air/water and arcana just being too good respective to the others in spvp/tpvp.

how do we “have it better” than some classes? which classes and how?

This^. I would LOVE to hear what class we have it better than.

Warriors, to name one.
Also, having it better than some other classes doesn’t necessarily means that we’re stronger 1vs1. And that leads us to be far better than rangers in team fights.

Warriors are one of the best classes in WvW. Who cares about 1v1… no part of the game meta is 1v1 centric.

Necros are way OP at least in WvW. Any necro worth his allotment of oxygen will tell you that.

Kaimick.5109:

Wall of text

Friendly advice: I would edit a lot of what you posted there before someone from Anet takes notice because you are doing the very thing you are complaining about.

Thanks

0/10/30/0/30

I am really hesitant as to say why though lest it be target of the nerf bat our out of touch devs seem to be aiming at eles that past several months. I mean seriously, they are talking about nerfing fgs because of the mobility it adds …when we already lost most of it.

Edit: Not the same as the poster above me….

Seriously, week in an out these forums never change. You people need new material because it is getting boring. Honestly, I am kind of shocked it hasn’t gotten locked yet.

oxide.8324:

Every time I’ve seen Indo this week he has been tagged up.

That is because when he wasn’t tagged up, you couldn’t see him. dot dot dot

I must say, I thought this was a complete and utter joke from Anet. Is it April 1st or something?

Talk about complete and total disconnect from Anet. Its cool and all that you know how abilities work with each other since you designed them, but you are quite disconnected about how they actually play in game and against other players.

Completely thoughtless changes mixed in with a few minor improvements from this patch. The past several patches combined have actually diminished the overall viability of the class as well as its versatility.

Oh… and if you really nerf FGS because of the mobility it provides then you are just proving exactly how out of touch you are. The reason WHY players are using it is because you took away everything else and it is needed. Oh …and signet of air is still worthless and a waste to run because it takes the space of something that is required for the lowest health/armor class in the game for base survivability, even more so since you took away the mobility.

Speaking of high dps, high mobility, and best defense in the game with stealth…. little hypocrisy from you there don’t you think given your comment about eles.

Straegen.2938:

I don’t know what skill lag is like above T3 but since I moved to a lower tier, skill lag while present isn’t an overall big issue. I agree that they should address the issue, but keep in mind no other MMO (that I know of) can scale fights this large with this level of skill diversity. To fix the problem quickly, they could cap populations but my guess is that would make players more upset.

The fights in this game aren’t that large to be honest. I have had far bigger fights in other MMOs without their server puking… not sure what games you have played.

Excalibur.9748:

maybe if you didn’t bandwagon to the most stacked server, you wouldn’t have skill lag issues.

Why so much hate? I play on SoR too and have been there from rank #17 last year to rank #1 this year. Your nonsense holds no water.

Skill lags occurs when there are big fights. The only thing being on a lower population server accomplished is a smaller chance that there will be big fights.

Gothir.3604:

covenn.7165:

Even a 3s icd on goep makes it worthless outside of solo fights because you have better options to put in that slot.

Before this patch I would have agreed with you. But it is definitely worth it now that weakness is so strong and the glyph is stun breaker now. Weakness is basically a 25% damage debuff now which is huge and the glyph lets you keep it on someone permanently. That 25% damage reduction is basically the same as having 600 more toughness.

The internal cooldown is per target so each person you are hitting can get the condition applied to them. So aoes like meteor storm can apply the condition to a ton of people in WvW now.

Yeah, thanks… I know the changes to weakness.

Do you know for sure your weakness is getting applied on everyone getting hit by the meteor shower? Lava font? etc. ? Are you sure it isnt going on its ICD the first time its applied to someone in an AE radii? What about multiple ticks of the same ability (lava, meteor?)

Even a 3s icd on goep makes it worthless outside of solo fights because you have better options to put in that slot.

Swim.6830:

Just wanted to let you know that the stunbreak glyph is instant, so double bonus for the people already using it.

GoeP is never used for the stun break. The ability should be used pretty much on cool down and thus the stun break goes wasted.

Increasing stats will increase performance directly to abilities tied to that stat. Vitality allows how to soak up more damage. Arrow Cart mastery allows you to shoot farther and hit harder. Conceptually they are the same.

SoggyFrog.4170:

So when they first introduced WXP abilities, there was no kind of stat progression and you were happy if you used siege a lot and indifferent otherwise.

Then they started sneaking in these stat buffing abilities with no notice or justification. There will be people who love them but I believe it goes very much against the no grind philosophy.

1. Stats in MMOs increase performance be it doing damage, withstanding damage, moving faster, or whatever. increasing damage, range, effects, etc. of siege is in fact ‘stat’ progression. Sure a visible number might not go up from siege mastery skills, but you do in fact gain an advantage over someone performing the same task that does not have it.

2. The no-grind philosophy was abandoned by ANET a long time ago. See badges/ascended gear/etc.

Straegen.2938:

Culling was and is not a feature. Culling is something done to a stack to make it more efficient. In this case, it was done to allow the client to render efficiently. To remove culling most likely took a lot of developer hours and re-engineering of the code on the client. It was probably easy to remove from the server however.

Actually you can look at culling as a feature. Just not as ‘player’ feature…. remember that ANET can turn it on, off, and adjust its settings (and did over many months). Removing it was a matter of the proverbial flipping of the switch. What you are combining into culling is the impact of it being turned off, and the work required to eliminate or minimize that impact on both ends.

Straegen.2938:

IMO the solution at least in part is probably a design one. They already limit AoE most likely to keep the stack sizes smaller. Making changes that have users sending less data or receiving fewer updates is likely an easier (and cheaper) place to start.

I agree with you about the problem being a core design problem barring any significant issue with poorly written code. Sadly, the server side lag is vastly worse now than it was during the initial months after release….

One has to wonder what actually creates more calculations, cut and dry determination of who is within an area of effect…. or which 5 people within an area of effect actually gets hit by it. Depending on their code, it could actually cause more load to limit AoE.

Hell, games have had massive fights with uncapped AoE and no server lag for a decade+ ….(client related issues are a different situation).

anzenketh.3759:

I rarely have issues with lag. I also have culling turned on and graphics settings to low. I am also not on one of the top 4 servers that have extremely high population where zergs are 60+.

Your local graphic settings are irrelevant to the problem being discussed here.

Personally I would love to have real W3 progression, similar to DAOC and other games. Unfortunately things are too care bear these days. It seems entitlement wins out over effort.