Guild Wars 2

Good to see some PvP only changes even if I don’t agree with all of them.

Evan wrote its a 3 day grace period with a 7 day decay where 1 game takes off 1 day of decay, forgot where I saw it probably here or reddit.

Any plans to address alts hoarding the top 250 preventing other people getting in?

For example, remember season 1 was team PZ dominating the guild leaderboards, what’s to stop them doing the same for the top 250 spots now?

I know there’s a decay system but for real PvP players it’s not a big deal, just 1 game / account per day is pretty easy.

Shylock.4653:

Kills – 26
Objective Defender – 0
Points Captured – 1

This is Conquest not Deathmatch. You win if you have many Cap-Points, not if you kill many enemies.

I mean I could understand the point capture being only 1 since you generally don’t wanna double cap but yeah how do you manage 0 defend??? Like that just screams being outrotated hardcore.

Did a CoF1 today for the daily and we had 4 friends + a pug who kinda had no idea what we were doing at all. It’s not really surprising that most people nowadays don’t do dungeons and have no idea how, raiders or not.

You pretty much can’t expect anything in a pug anymore so just form an org group if you want fast/meta dungeon clears.

Raiding is like an entirely different game mode to dungeons, it’d be like saying open world players should know dungeon mechanics but they don’t either.

UW combat isn’t even remotely closed to balanced so nah probably not gonna happen any time soon.

Don’t worry they’ll nerf AB soon and you can be mad about something else.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

fishball.7204:

I actually misquoted and meant to quote the guy above you but w/e.

Your point is also wrong though, just because OP is unhappy doesn’t mean the arguments in the AB threads are wrong. Cheaper mats = people that WANT TO BUY MATS are happy but people that WANT TO SELL MATS are unhappy. It’s pretty obvious different people want different things so there’s always gonna be someone happy or unhappy.

How about reading what I actually said.

I didn’t say the arguments in the AB thread were right or wrong. I said for him to read the thread to read the argument.

How about reading what you actually post yourself?

What happened to all those arguments that low prices were a good thing?

I’m saying those exact arguments still apply in the current situation even though the OP is unhappy.

Pretty obvious you’re mad about AB ML or biased against it and the people who take part in it, well guess what I don’t farm AB lmao.

I actually misquoted and meant to quote the guy above you but w/e.

Your point is also wrong though, just because OP is unhappy doesn’t mean the arguments in the AB threads are wrong. Cheaper mats = people that WANT TO BUY MATS are happy but people that WANT TO SELL MATS are unhappy. It’s pretty obvious different people want different things so there’s always gonna be someone happy or unhappy.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What happened to all those arguments that low prices were a good thing? All those threads praising the AB chest runs and arguing against any nerfs? Just pull up one of those threads and read the argument why its good for mats to be cheap.

AB isn’t even the reason things are at ‘new lows’. It’s the unbound magic/berry farm which is destroying all the markets like Charged Cores/Powerful Blood/Damask etc.

AB is primarily ectos which is the one thing OP says isn’t ‘worthless’.

I always seem to hear people complaining about how market manipulators push prices up and make everything cost more yet here we are someone saying things are too cheap lmao. Can’t seem to satisfy everyone.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

We weren’t told that a nerf was coming, just that it should be obvious that one would come. Some day.

Actually we were told it is getting a nerf.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5e6uxb/a_crack_in_the_ice_devs_here_ask_us_anything/daa4e1w/

Like they basically came out and said it was exploity and gonna be nerfed, which is as much confirmation a nerf is coming as any.

The mirror comp is pretty popular nowadays since most of the top guilds recommended it heavily on here and reddit. Pretty rare to see any other comps that aren’t 5-5 such as 7-2-1 or 4-4-2 like in the old days outside of niche encounters.

Right now the comp really is just, 2 druid, 2 PS, 2 chrono + 4 DPS where the DPS can be anything condi or power. Most pugs seem to opt for Ele but anything works, like power engy or condi ranger etc with varying levels of efficiency depending on the encounter/player/team etc. This comp allows the team to have high 25 might uptime, perma fury (tiger from druid + SOI), quickness and easily accessible distortions and since you have 2 warriors with headbutt and M/Sh on swap, CC.

To be completely fair though, only Necro has atrocious DPS right now and every other class is somewhat ok. I would pretty much never take a necro.

The only annoying thing about the new map is that sometimes you can get ice cube’d mid glide/mid air. Apart from that, everything is pretty easy to dodge and I just swap in some utils for chill removal.

Spook.5847:

As for your being an apologist to the TP leeches who manipulate the supply and prices; it is equally clear that without them, the market would more readily stabilize, and the prices of all things would come down as the market wharehoused more and more items, and regular sellers would continue to undercut each other. As it is, the regular folks buying from the TP are also paying the hidden costs that these folks create as part of their profit (to only themselves) from “flipping”.

Pretty funny how you call me an apologist to the TP leeches when you’re talking about 2 different things. You are complaining about speculators/hoarders/manipulators that PUSH PRICES UP by squeezing supply which is fine, a valid complaint.

However, you are blaming FLIPPERS who do not stock any items, they just buy order and relist it, taking profit in between by overcutting buy orders and undercutting sell orders, just like a regular player can do but may not want to due to convenience/time constraints etc.

Kinda sad really.

Spook.5847:

I see lots of bots in the world, too – like in the Hidden Garden. That said, I think that “tp flippers”, who add nothing to the game other than to increase costs to the community, should be treated in the same way that you say bots should be, and for much the same reasons.

The guys in hidden garden aren’t bots, they’re just people who have completed the Kudzu precursor collection, park a character there and gather the nodes daily then logoff.

I used to do that till the herb prices dropped so much it wasn’t worth my time.

I guess it can look suspicious if 10 people are all hitting those nodes but I can assure you pretty much nobody bots that patch.

TP flippers also decrease the cost to the community by reducing the buy/sell spreads on items making it more beneficial for buyers and sellers.

It’s pretty obvious you have too little understanding of GW2 since both your statements are totally wrong.

Raids are already pretty easy and have plenty of leeway. I’ve seen people use like Venom Share cond thieves, DPS chronos and the like and still manage to kill VG and Gors.

If you wanna play your fun build it’s still totally doable, you just have to be good to pull it off.

The content isn’t balanced around top tier players, it’s balanced around the average raider or we wouldn’t be having 3 mins spare on Xera/6 man no updraft Gors if the DPS requirements were that tight.

I’ve seen RP guilds clear escort without using meta builds at all, they just slot in some common sense skills (immobilize/chill) and do the mechanics. If these non-raiders can do it, most people probably can do if they actually tried.

azizul.8469:

mauried.5608:

Its a pretty poor way of selling gold , given the TP takes 15% of the sale price.

even at 15% lost, their price is waaayyy cheaper than gems-> gold conversion and can still make profit. not to say that i support goldseller, but when they have abundance of gold 15% tax is puny for a safe, secure, unlimited and undetectable transaction….

ANet definitely tracks TP gold selling stuff, some guy on reddit made a post a few months ago about his item+gold being confiscated because an item he sold was bought by a gold seller.

So it’s not really undetectable.

The infusion isn’t binded even if you use it Wanze so there’s no need to stat change to unbind it. You just need the extractor from Fractals for 24 silver to pull it out.

Same I’d rather wait 4-5 months and let them iron out the kinks rather than subject myself to the current system.

DeWolfe.2174:

X T D.6458:

Our population was/is apparently smaller then JQ’s as pointed out by Mckenna in the other thread

BG has a Q in EB and it’s 7am est. on Sunday morning. WvW population data is simply wrong.

I mean I totally agree BG is overstacked right now but this is pretty ironic coming from a JQ player lmao.

You do realize this is SEA prime where JQ used to queue 2-3 maps right?

Also there’s a 7 man queue on EBG right now on BG and none on the others on a weekend in SEA prime which says more about how ded gaem it is than anything else.

Realistically you, me and most people want ANet to fix PvP so it’s actually fun with some or all of your suggestions. I’d rather they focus on that rather than removing hotjoin/daily room and giving nothing back (which is probably what ANet will do).

I also don’t see hotjoin rooms as a problem, I don’t care about the PvP potions that much and don’t even bother with the targeted PvP dailies 80% of the time. I’m not gonna play X just to get the class win for example.

There are also downsides to taking out custom arenas:

1. The people doing their dailies will flood unranked and go afk or whatever. Especially if it’s rank points. You could report them but then they’d just pseudo AFK and run around or feed on purpose to let the game go faster. I’d rather they stay where they are and leave me alone in ranked/unranked.

2. People that scrim use these rooms, if removed where will they scrim?

3. Dueling/King of the Hill rooms will be gone.

4. Despite daily rooms existing, there are still plenty of legitimate hotjoin rooms. These don’t deserve to be caught in the crossfire and nuked.

I don’t use these rooms every day, maybe once a week or twice but they’re good if I need a quick daily.

The guys in there mostly don’t even PvP anyway, they just want a fast daily done and go back to PvE or whatever else they’re doing irl.

The only thing that will happen from banning daily/hotjoin rooms is that more people get frustrated and quit the game.

The new titles from PvP (Legend, Sea Dog, Eternal Gladiator) can’t be farmed in daily/hotjoin rooms already so you already have those exclusive things, just leave the hotjoin rooms to the non PvP players, their game play (or lack thereof) hardly affects you personally.

Also the rewards from hotjoin are CAPPED per day, you cannot farm hotjoin for 24 hours and progress faster than rated matches due to this.

TL;DR: killing hotjoin rooms won’t suddenly increase your real PvP population but rather just frustrate players who don’t care much for PvP in the first place.

Reh.5986:

Well I realize I’m being trolled. 8/10 btw. I’m serious about lowering pop cap on at least one map during off NA hours on NA servers though. Give us late night legit NA people a chance on at least one map.

You can even scale pop cap so if 3 goofy OCX servers end up in the same match they can stuff their 70+ blobs on it.

You could lower the map caps to 50, wouldn’t make a different tbh, OCX is pretty dead.

I used the whole 70v70 thing but realistically it never happens, or rarely at least in OCX.

Jeknar.6184:

Off hour guilds tend to stack in a single server and complain that they have no competition. rolls eyes

KnF, SoX – Mag
KnM, FL – BG
eN, LATE – TC
TF – YB

Kinda sad you guys are so blinded by the salt you can’t see how bad it is for anyone who doesn’t play NA prime.

You NA players have it so good, multiple guilds, plenty of fights/action/roaming whatever you want but the rest of us have to pray to RNGesus to get a good roll to get any sorta action because if you roll a server without off hour coverage (aka almost all of them) kiss your entire week of WvW goodbye.

Reh.5986:

Eh you don’t need to buy up oversees guilds and pvd every night to get “blob fights”. Nights are dead because one server is running friggin map queues while everyone is asleep.

The rest of us crazies that stay up just have to let them cap everything while we back cap or stand around bored. We might have 15 or 20…could deal with that or even get some nice outnumbered fights against 35…but 70?

So you’re saying that we should be forced to play 30v30 instead of 70v70 like NA prime gets to because of MUHHH BALANCE? Selfish. Servers with no non NA players should just die at the bottom of T4 so they can enjoy their even matches and let those of us who want to play WvW in OCX/SEA with actual fights move to T1 and maybe T2.

You can ktrain away. I don’t give a crap. Just spread out and give actual NA servers a chance on one map.

Nobody ktrains in 2016, not even 2015 except for DK. I’ve already said there’s nothing to spread out, there’s like 6-7 OCX guilds that still exist, spread out? What? These are like 15-20 man guilds too not 50+ blob guilds. LATE, eN, KnM, FL, TF, SoX, KnF are pretty much the only notable OCX WvW guilds that are left. There ISN’T ENOUGH PEOPLE FOR 12 SERVERS.

2012 called and they want your salt about night cap and pvdoor

yall yall yall yall yall yall yall yall yall yall yall yall

The salt is real.

Reh.5986:

Why would you want to run 70+ on off NA hours while on NA servers? Not for decent fights. We wonder why coverage is so hard to balance?

Cuz you know some of us wanna experience blob fights and we can’t play NA prime?

It was so fun when Mag had a map queue (MGR) vs our map queue (Seph) but now it’s a deadzone with what 20 people on the map on all 3 sides? How is that fun? I mean you guys in NA prime have your fun big fights but the rest of us have nothing to do now but yeah it’s “balanced”.

Super selfish.

We could have a nice mix of fights sizes depending on the hour…even small scale havoc/roaming in the late hours. Instead we have servers begging for more so they can stack up NA along with the balance issues they are creating when NA time zones are sleeping.

No we can’t. There isn’t enough off hour population to support anything of the sort. Even JQ doesn’t queue more than 1 map populated regularly “off hours” and sometimes there’s no queue. You don’t understand, there is little to nothing left in OCX/SEA which is why all of them should be in 1 tier tbh. That way you get blobs, roaming, havoc, small fights etc which NA can currently enjoy while other timezones cannot due to this perceived notion that servers must be ‘balanced’.

T1 right now is deader than the old 2014 T4 CD/SoS/SBI but it’s all LALALALA STACKED SERVERS DIE PLZ WEEEEW.

I guess you just want BG/JQ/TC etc all to be dead except for the 2 hours of NA prime they play.

Selfish.

At least the folks on Maguuma tried to get off hours there so there’d be fights all day round.

krmatth.3904:

1. SEA/OCX guild goes to #12 and #2 SEA/OCX guild goes to #11.rinse repeat until all WVW guilds are placed

There aren’t even 12 OCX WvW guilds left in the game lol.

You guys need to realize timezone coverage is more important for fun than anything else.

Right now BG and Mag both lost their biggest SEA commanders to EU server because there is no fight if we don’t roll each other. From map queue on both server to no queue, sometimes no players all because of your stupid linking system forcing servers away from each other.

If you look at the statistics you will realize OCX/SEA barely have enough population for 6 servers let alone 12 and you should let us all play together instead of ‘making new worlds’ which solves ZILCH.

New worlds don’t automatically mean new population, new commanders, new guilds. Especially for OCX/SEA which has been dwindling in population since 2013/2014.

3 is probably the only proposal I’d agree with.

There are many many guilds which have members across many servers so it’ll just end up being confusing if you do the guild thing.

The alliance thing has been considered by many and a lot of people gave feedback on why it is bad. At least there’s some server loyalty, alliances end up feeling like eotm which is bad.

Engi is one of the 2 best condi classes right now, we’ve even taken power engy on KC and did fine so it’s damage isn’t even bad.

Just keep trying, maybe the groups you ran into were just uninformed players.

maddoctor.2738:

Go here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/

It’s very clear:

The Shadow of the Mad King, our annual Halloween festival, returns for nearly two weeks of ghoulish capers, spooky fights, and frightening fun!

Start date: October 18 + 2 weeks = ends today

You the man thanks!

Obtena.7952:

I’ve discussed no build here and have no reason to. No one should care what is meta; it’s not relevant because you don’t need it to succeed in completing content in this game; you never did.

Well you’re the one who said that meta players think non meta builds are all bad so I figured I’d give you the chance to post your build to prove them all wrong. I guess you’re all talk though.

It’s true you can probably get away with a lot of unorthodox builds but there is no argument that Ventari Rev or Shatter Heal Chrono is not as good as Druid/Ele heals and understanding what the meta is and why the subpar builds are subpar helps pave way towards improving them so people that enjoy the diversity aren’t kitten. Even meta players would like to have several different class/build to play.

You don’t need to play meta for any other reason other than appeasing your own and others insecurities about players skills. The game instanced content, including raids, is designed to be completed by more than just engineered teams of meta players. It’s why no one needs 2 chronos for raids. It’s why the new changes don’t kill raid team diversity. It’s why people of many different levels of skill can achieve raid success.

Most groups plays meta 5-5 comp because it provides the best boon uptime, best groupwide buffs and is a generally solid composition.

I mean sure you can sacrifice 40% dps or more by having no might, no fury and no quickness and run a 2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1 comp but like I said before this is just gimping yourself on purpose just to be a hipster.

If that’s how you wanna play then sure why not but that’s like arguing cars aren’t essential because you can walk everywhere a car can go in theory. I can tell you cars weren’t designed to cure people’s insecurity about walking.

You’re free to post your non meta build and show us why your build is good. If it’s so good it might even become the new meta.

However the last time someone tried to do that he showcased a PS warrior with pack runes and got some very justified mockery.

It’s like whenever I join a pug raid with 3 necros, see 2 of them camping staff, VG with 20 bleed stacks and then those guys wondering why it fails. No your build really isn’t good.

Absurdo.8309:

Is there some common ground here?

- At high level play, is 5-5 less fun than 4-4-2 because 5-5 is just two dungeon parties with less class diversity?

4-4-2 and 5-5 are pretty similar in diversity, I think people compare to 7-2-1 when they talk about diversity which allowed 6 different DPS roles as opposed to now where you have 4 in the 5-5.

- At average level play, are off-meta compositions (such as 7-2-1) further away from the meta composition?

No idea what this means.

- At average level play, has the class diversity required to achieve average-level been reduced? (Eg, pre patch only needing 1 ps, 1 druid, 1 chrono?)

Somewhat. The DPS slots are down to 4 from 6 of a 7-2-1 comp.

- Is the designation of the necro lich form nerf as a “bug fix” a misrepresentation or unwarranted? (Has been in the game for 5 years, and meta for 1 year, 20% cut on meta build?)

Shouldn’t call it a bug fix, but in the end it doesn’t matter it was a severe nerf.

The only good thing about the necro nerf is that people now take ranger/engis instead who were always good but shunned because of “omg necro OP” disinformation.

The only thing they never brought back was the Mini Spooky Moa from Mad King Says (rare drop). This year’s equivalent is Thailog the Gargoyle mini. Charles could also be only this year but hard to say since we have no data.

Everything else as far as I know has been available every year.

Oh and the Gift of XYZ (souls, moon etc) RECIPE is only available during halloween but this it moot since the actual gift has been cheaper on the TP for the past 2 years so there’s no reason to make the recipe in the first place.

trixantea.1230:

So which one are the hardest and the most time consuming achievements to get in GW2 PvP, PvE and WvW?

Most time consuming:

PvE – giant killer
PvP – Champion Brawler
WvW – ultimate dominator

Most challenging:

PvE – The raid achievements/Liadri
PvP – The league achievements, legendary every season etc
WvW – nothing’s hard in WvW, just time consuming

ShoknAwe.1602:

i have 56 mystic coins, and i have no idea what to do with them, 77s is just too low to sell on the TP i’d barely make 40 gold, and apparently they have a lot of utility that i’m yet unaware of so i don’t understand the concern behind coin prices

Coins are used in legendary weapons/backpieces as well as Specialization weapon collections, nightfury and a bunch of other high priced skins (eg. the Crossing, Mad Moon etc).

Basically in terms of fashion wars 2, they are the end game skins.

It’s a concern for Veteran players mostly since most of us don’t have any coins to spare at all as we’ve used them over the years. It’s very easy to run out once you start making anything seriously and the acquisition rate is mostly static.

I have multiple accounts I login daily for mystic coins, still not enough for me to bother selling them.

Lots of handwaving here with no proof that 5-5 is an inferior comp.

My experience with 5-5 has been generally positive and there are so many reasons why it is a solid comp I see no reason to run anything else.

Reliable distortions = skip greens at VG, avoid shakes at sloth.

Double reflects for Matthias + tons of CC with 2 Gravity wells.

GOTL hits everyone reliably and everyone has perma fury/25 might unlike 7-2-1 where I sometimes had no fury even with a Rev.

And of course, Perma quickness + high alacrity uptime = more heals/more dps/more everything.

Pretty hard to argue against this unless your chronos are so bad you have no quickness anyway then yeah you can probably take whatever comp and suck just as bad.

Realistically you can run anything if you’re good enough and still do fine (see 3 man VG).

In practice, Necro is far far far behind every other class on the usefulness scale and there needs to be something done to make it relevant again. Necro is basically in the same spot as they were back in the dungeon days – usable but not that useful.

It was 100 cob in 2015. It is 110 cob in 2016 for the Mini Gwyn

I didn’t record everything in detail this year, the only notable drops were:

- 18 polys (4 black, 6 green, 5 orange, 3 teal)
- 3 endless batwing
- 3 gifts (1 of each)
- 3 legendary luck
- 3 mini charles

Jourdelune.7456:

fishball.7204:

R O C.6574:

Ithilwen.1529:

3 stacked matches in a row. One was 500 – 5. If ANET can’t provide fun matches, they can’t expect people to play. I’m seeing stacks of necro and dh over and over.

are you playing in unranked? you seem to have the worst luck with matches

Unranked is atrocious, I’ve won 4v5 games because other side is so terrible and I’ve lost 5v4 because of the reverse.

It’s not even class stacking, the MMR system in unranked is basically non existent/trash tier.

This is a symptom of volatile MMR. You didn’t play unranked consistently enough to have a fixed one, yet.

I’ve played almost every day since they added salty sea dog title, that’s like months on end and it’s still trash. Tired of hearing that excuse where I don’t play enough, I almost play as much as vallun does until like 2 weeks ago and even watching his stream he gets these trash tier games often.

Just last week you were like raids are too easy and that you could lie your way through them and still succeed in pugs. Now you’re seeing first hand what happens when everybody lies and has no idea what they’re doing. Wipe after wipe after wipe.

Join a real raid guild, learn some other classes that actually do stuff instead of PS war and you’ll have more reliable clears.

We had 2 chrono 2 druid 2 PS + 4 dps for almost every encounter except matthias where we had one extra ele healer.

The DPS were either Engy (power for KC, condi for rest), ranger condi, DH, ele.

We ran condi PS for VG with the DH in subgroup too to ensure might reached 25. So I guess that’s a thing if you wanna play condi PS still (which can’t solo stack 25 might).

mazut.4296:

Just tested the “2 mesmer new meta” and it just doesnt work as intended. 50% quickness still missing, so probably its better to have another 2 dps classes instead of mesmers.

Your chronos are just bad then.

2 years ago before they were buyable with cobs I opened 363 thousand bags before I got one.

This year I only did 85 thousand bags and no dog but the sample size is too small to say anything definitive.

NikeEU.7690:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Really all we need is for [qT] to make a Reddit thread that outright says what most of us know that Heralds are still perfectly valuable as one of the DPS options due to offensive support, great CC, and good-enough DPS. Once that happens, people will get in line, but for now all pubs really have to go on is Reddit overreaction.

You can take it from me, Revs are still quite good in raids

I trust this guy from qT more than you

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/58unld/revenant_and_raids_as_of_halloween_patch/d93l6n5/

We tested rev as a dps class in a full clear (3 wings) and it’s damage was terrible tbh. It’s on PS Warrior level without beeing half as useful. We really tried to find a spot for rev but unfortunately it’s in a very bad spot right now.

R O C.6574:

Ithilwen.1529:

3 stacked matches in a row. One was 500 – 5. If ANET can’t provide fun matches, they can’t expect people to play. I’m seeing stacks of necro and dh over and over.

are you playing in unranked? you seem to have the worst luck with matches

Unranked is atrocious, I’ve won 4v5 games because other side is so terrible and I’ve lost 5v4 because of the reverse.

It’s not even class stacking, the MMR system in unranked is basically non existent/trash tier.

morrolan.9608:

Missy.7356:

While JQ runs so big in SEA, be it with casuals or not, you still have more SEA than any one else.

This is a lie

JQ has Ge pugmander, FOO, WvW, Cloudfly = 4 groups + tons of pugs

BG has AHMA and Bong (who pugmands) = 2 groups + some pugs/NA players

TC has FUG/HIRE = 2 groups + barely any pugs/NA players

Maguuma = ????? nothing now that MGR left outside of their NA that might wake up early

YB = DK if he plays overtime, otherwise nothing

Did you miss the memo that half of the SEA players on BG and all of them on Maguuma moved to EU?

Roxanne.6140:

So funny to hear people compare top 2nd or 3rd server with a ranked 5 server. You guys aren’t playing because of relinking and cannons. period. I played against your server during this time before and this is not the normal size.

MGR and Ng both moved to EU. They’re the guilds that pull the big rallies on BG/Maguuma during SEA. With them gone, there’s minimal activity now so meh believe what you want but JQ has the fattest SEA now.

Necros are still super strong in fractals after the nerf. The minion nerf on lich doesn’t matter that much in fractal since the fights aren’t long like raids and if you’re pugging there ain’t nobody healing yo minions.

You are also complaining about necros as a class when you are looking at the trash players who play it which is the wrong way to judge what a class brings. A good necro can bring epi (clears ads), projectile absorb (CPC) and support allies by removing condis as well as bring solid CC in reaper form as well as transfusion to pull people out of bloomhunger stomps. Just because they don’t bring fury/might doesn’t mean they’re useless and just because the class can be good doesn’t mean there aren’t trash players playing it poorly.