Guild Wars 2

So I know I had all the attunements on my level 20, I unlocked all the staff/dagger skills and with the patch, my earth attunement is gone!

No more Wars/Necros/Ele Lord rezzes? Hey now you can just blob rush structures, cap it and be done with it. Who cares about protracted fights and all that boring stuff.

Well if you phrase is like “crawl out of their caskets” it makes it seem like it’s just a bunch of evil, snickering insomniacs who stay up just to kitten you over lol. No, they are just people often on the other side of the planet and there is really nothing to be done about it. While I don’t care about PPT (I don’t even know who wins the week anymore) I hate fighting PvDoor servers, not just because I like having those nice, handy waypoints but because the players tend to be terrible fighters since they’re not used to fighting actual people. Even if they merge NA/EU there will other problems.

@CaptainVantastic

I liked Lineage II’s castle raid system, Aion’s was kind of similar but given the 24/7 raid possibilities that GW2 WvWvW has become accustomed to, I think restricting raids to a given prime time would trigger outcry from “off peak” players.

Telemin.7380:

How are they supposed to fix this? Force players into certain servers? Merge server communities that hold animosity towards each other? WE made these unbalanced matches, not anet. WE chose what servers to play on, creating these stacked servers.

Just stop it.

LOL. That’s a good one! I need to transfer to this uber trolly server right nao.

How does a condi cheese Thief lose to a Guard? :s That guy was waaaay too visible the whole fight.

P.S Healing Signet. Gross

I’ll see when it launches(honestly I’m going to be playing AA with the rest of the guild so might not even log in). If they’re using vanity tags and new siege nonsense to hype it, then it’s probably going to be kitten poor for all the time and silence involved.

Sreoom.3690:

I heard they were going to roll out the sarcasm update soon ™

Fixed that for you.

I’ll pass, I already don’t like sPvP’s cramped maps and having to deal with it’s cramped stats in WvWvW would make me leave quick, fast and in a hurry.

WvWvW is whatever you make it and the fact that it has it’s share of mean spirited people is a given. Sometimes I down solo mappers and just leave them to res and go about their business when it becomes obvious the person just isn’t a fighter. If you have a friend though, you’re both going down.

Berk.8561:

gennyt.3428:

Berk.8561:

Isn’t that what’s enticing people to stack on what they anticipate to be the winning server in each league?

So make, transferring to poorly performing worlds have equal or better rewards than actually “winning” the tournament? As I said, what practical perks would move players into an environment where they know they’ll be blobbed to kingdom come for heaven knows how long?

…
snip
…

A nicely compensated punching bag is still a punching bag, vanity item(s) and a handful of gems most likely won’t make people stick around through getting blobbed down or dealing dead zones during their play time. It is supposed to be entertainment after all. What happens when opponent servers get these transfers as well? Unless the perks are attached to server rating(hello manipulation!), the already dominant server will probably be the more attractive. And I seriously doubt Anet would give gems for transferring down, when they can get people to shell out real money to transfer up and I also doubt they’d spend resources making unique items that won’t end up in the gem shop instead.

SonOfJacob.7396:

Straegen.2938:

The current system is akin to a high school team playing a college team playing a pro team in many matchups. We can spot the high school team a ton of points but the game itself is still going to suck for them.

Fair point. I think this is the quandary the devs are in: how to achieve fairness across tiers while at the same time rewarding the servers that score the highest. There’s got to be a concept to resolve it before it can be programmed…so far, I haven’t read one that fully encompasses this.

Might be because slapping a scoreboard on 24/7 open maps for a modern international community is an absurd idea.

@ Apokriphos

I never said or even implied that huge number imbalances were O.K as a matter of fact I think it’s really dumb game design. What I’m saying is, you’re kittened if you do and kittened if you don’t. If you want some semblance of somewhat fair matches, you have to gut WvWvW.

If you are sieging a t3 keep and the opposing side loses enough numbers to cause autobalance, that means your Server was outnumbering them to start.

I would not generalize like that. Guild groups have happily helped pugmanders smash giant defense blobs plenty, enough to the point they start leaving.

What happens when you’re forced to choose another map where an opposing server has no presence? You get kicked from that too? And the next? Did it ever occur to you that some people have put in the time to build up enough contacts and a reputation to rally a big turn out? And once again, what about the small man teams who are not PvDooring? I could go on.

PvDoor sucks but it sucks more to have an international playerbase and shut out people because of when they can log in. It is not a solution.
———————

gennyt.3428:

gennyt.3428:

How can you entice people to move to a losing side? Loot handicaps?

Isn’t that what’s enticing people to stack on what they anticipate to be the winning server in each league?

So make, transferring to poorly performing worlds have equal or better rewards than actually “winning” the tournament? As I said, what practical perks would move players into an environment where they know they’ll be blobbed to kingdom come for heaven knows how long?

^Why does this thing have me quoting only myself? lol

@ OP
Nope not a good idea and I’ll tell you why.

WvWvW is 24/7 scoring and you’re telling players they can’t be where they want because…enough people aren’t on the opposing side…of a 24/7 open map.

It assumes every player on a given map is in the blob. Oh look you’re winning a 3v7 fight near golanta aaand you’re being told you’re getting booted. Nice.

Or

Commander in TS: “Guys I’m about to get kicked to EotM. I know we’ve been wearing down this T3 keep but now that they’re quitting, I guess some of us shouldn’t be here anymore. Don’t worry we’ll switch maps and have the same thing happen in a few minutes. Yay!”

Yeah, no thanks.

These kinds of situations will drive people away.

Dayra.7405:

Deli.1302:

Apokriphos.7042:

but the reality is that World vs World is not balanced

WvW is not supposed to be balanced.
Server stacking is a result of attrition (people leaving the game). Every game goes through this. As population gradually decreases, people look to move to servers that have more people to play with/against during their timezone. It’s got very little to do with the matchup system and there is no solution.

Wrong.

Instead of putting incentives to transfer to over-stacked servers with every season, there could be incentives to move to under-populated worlds. We know from the seasons, that these incentives have a large effect. I would be easy to turn them around.

I’m willing to bet most of the people who server swap for transferring for “tournaments” are either PvErs who’ll stop playing when they’ve secured their rewards or guild groups who just don’t want to be on the receiving end of the try hard zombie hordes. How can you entice people to move to a losing side? Loot handicaps? It will have to be substantial to be worth getting steamrolled for an undetermined amount of time, then you’ll have endless whining if the gravy train goes off the rails due to population changes(which is something so fickle to begin with), it will probably create new bandwagons. Score handicaps? Still getting steamrolled on the battlefield constantly and it’s still not fun(some people try to put a good face on it). 24/7 scoring means no balance.

Johje Holan.4607:

It is correct to say that the score is not the problem but a symptom. However, there is NO fix to the problem.

It is impossible to balance the populations in a 24/7 game. Never going to happen. Doesn’t matter what system they use – server vs. server, red vs. blue vs. green, alliance vs. alliance – it will NEVER be balanced.

(emphasis mine)

Bingo! Scoreboard + “persistant maps” do not work. They could have still had the open world PvP aspect with prime time raids (a la Aion), come as a guild or pug it. They could have had large scale GW1 style instanced two and three way fights where people can hop in or organize a grudge match with their PvE food/gear/whatever and again chose to guild or pug it.

Dayra.7405:

It is just not very funny to play football with 11 vs 3 than it is with 11 vs 11.

I’d say WvWvW is more like two of those three players going home for the day and seven more joining the eleven man team. It fails at being entertainment and at this stage, we know major changes are not coming.

yanniell.1236:

I’d welcome some -40% condition food loot. That kitten is getting more expensive every day. =P

They’re introducing more condi into the game soon so expect a price hike.

I read “havoc” and thought I’d be watching a small man team take on larger teams of at least mostly other level 80s and fighting over classic WvWvW objectives. But yeah, five decent level 80 players on voice comms with some direct damage AoEs and some group heals should be able to wipe 3x their numbers of uplevels, especially if they’re disorganized enough to be kited and strung out.

lordkrall.7241:

kokiman.2364:

How is it actually useful?

“Only guild X follow Yellow tag!”
“Pugs follow Blue tag!”
“Camp-flippers follow Red tag!”

Sure people will still do a bit what they want. But it is quite a bit easier than having every commander having the same color.

“Only guild X follow Sarah Soothsayer’s tag!”
“Pugs follow Burny Madoff’s tag!”
“Camp-flippers follow Sir kitten y’s tag!”

^ What would be the difference if you have to keep telling people what to follow and hoping they join the squad? Newsflash! It’s no different than what we have have now.

Guilds will still have to hope people are decent enough to not blob onto them. What happens when guild X leaves the map temporarily and another yellow tag pops up with completely different intentions or any other tag for that matter? There is zero additional functionality added it’s just another BS vanity item that will probably cause more confusion than they’re worth.

Chaba.5410:

gennyt.3428:

And fill most of your inventory space with 1 porous bones per slot. Kinda like how I stocked up on useless maps in Lineage II before I went on a pk rampage

The rewards from WvWvW are already bad enough! You kitten!

Then it would be business as usual lol. :P

For a long time players had to use a third party site for finding groups and now Anet is calling their vanity edition commander tags “big changes”. Let’s be realistic, it ain’t happening.

Guess I’m that kitten haha

And fill most of your inventory space with 1 porous bones per slot. Kinda like how I stocked up on useless maps in Lineage II before I went on a pk rampage

Mystic.5934:

McWolfy.5924:

I think its not good idea. Guards are just visual effects against 10+ teams but can destroy good small scale fights

I was picturing a zerg capturing a tower, then using the 100 supply they just captured to lay down 10 vet archers above the gate so it’s not easily re-captured. 1 wouldn’t really do much against 10+ teams. but 10, 20, 30 would.

This suggestion could be limited to defense points if people are worried about it too-heavily influencing 1v1 fights. though I feel in a 1v1 fight, if someone stopped and spent 5 seconds to lay down a npc guard, they will be killed before the guard is even completed. could even make it take 10 seconds to lay it down if it’s that big a deal.
Maybe have it be an upgrade-type thing you buy from the npc? they already have one for hiring several additional guards – this would just be a “hire 1 additional guard for 20s and 10 supply” that you could purchase multiple times.

That’s the thing, fights are rarely 1v1. Even groups that pounce on solo/smaller teams often run to and hover around guards when their health gets low. Now they wouldn’t have to run, just have their friend(s) plop a couple down, and if it works like a trap then a class with stealth can do it unseen(I’ve dropped supply traps in zergs). Next thing you know, you’re catching a shield bash to the face. Essentially, it would be the small man equivalent of the bigger blob building open field siege to wipe a smaller blob. A clustered map like Eternal would become a nightmare.

Map completion and rewards are probably waaaay down on the list for most of the remaining WvWvW playerbase. If the fights were instanced and players were auto dropped into zones according to switchable regions then maybe and that’s a big maybe(will I get separated from my EU and Aussie guildmates?). Also, people have gotten accustomed to the 24/7 business so they’ll squeal if it changes(yet still complain about PvDoor, go figure). A down side to rotating color based teams is, it really opens up voice comms to spies. And even though players of differing languages already manage to sort out playing on the same team and even in voice comms, you will have the xenophobes who’ll get kitteny about it. And even then it still will not be balanced since WvWvW is an impractical mashup of conflicting ideas.

Lol if they did increase the player limit on the map for China(and looking at those queues I can see why, hopefully no skill lag) and they did the same for NA, the bottom tiers would most likely empty out for real. Then again, there would probably be no “tournaments” to hype like they’re actually releasing content and no credit cards being whipped out for transfers so that won’t happen.

Main account at 800+ ranks and never ever got a chest. Alt account at rank 50 something got one a day ago, it was Shaman but that was my first chest ever. But I guess it keeps the ridiculous gold sink..I mean crafting system useful.

Was all your gear exotic? Unfortunately people sometimes run around in rare backpieces and trinkets. How much armor do you have? Do you have a decent rune set and not the random stuff you get in karma gear before the recent change?(I think the runes were assorted) Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

Deniara Devious.3948:

gennyt.3428:

Deniara Devious.3948:

gennyt.3428:

If WvWvW was introduced from the beginning as Frostreach vs Badlands vs Overgrowth, I doubt anybody would be on here stressing about “server pride”.

If WvWvW would have been introduced as EotM, it would have not attracted the same people who now play WvWvW hard core. EotM = pve karma train for loot.

To clarify, I meant EotM style factions on classic maps and not the actual easy farm Eotm map.

Replacing EotM with a map like EBG would of course be an improvement.

Reducing all the servers into just 3 factions is not that great idea, as there really is such thing as server pride and communities and that would not necessarily solve the population and coverage balance issues. Notice how in EotM green usually wins and blue can be outnumbered 50% of the time. We need a different scoring system and real actual outnumbered buff e.g. make the tower, camp and keep events scale based on the number of enemy players there. Same like the do on pve side. So if 50+ man blob attacks one tower, it will get spawn more guards and archers than the one which is attacked by just two guys.

EU has 4 types of language based servers: French, German, Spanish and International. How are you going to divide them into 3 factions?

Please read what I actually wrote. I said if WvWvW was introduced , as in initially, with chosen faction based teams(or even guilds/alliances of guilds??!! Nah that would make too much sense) instead of server based no one would be getting all weird about server pride. That would solve the language barrier issue(guilds/alliances btw).

I never even mentioned the scoring system, no scoring system will ever be balanced on a 24/7 open map btw.

Because the point system is so poorly designed and off putting that the mode will need a constant feed of new blood?

Deniara Devious.3948:

gennyt.3428:

If WvWvW was introduced from the beginning as Frostreach vs Badlands vs Overgrowth, I doubt anybody would be on here stressing about “server pride”.

If WvWvW would have been introduced as EotM, it would have not attracted the same people who now play WvWvW hard core. EotM = pve karma train for loot.

To clarify, I meant EotM style factions on classic maps and not the actual easy farm Eotm map.

If WvWvW was introduced from the beginning as Frostreach vs Badlands vs Overgrowth, I doubt anybody would be on here stressing about “server pride”. At this stage, we are all playing with people who were at one point on an “enemy” server, omg say it ain’t so! It all comes down to being scared of change and it shows people will get tribal over every little dumb thing.

No, I don’t need to be fighting a condi Thief and War and then have random open field NPC vets pelting me with bolas or rapid fire shots from 3 million units away. They’d kitten up small scale fights and be rally bait for big groups.

If they want to throw defenders a bone, add an alarm option in the structure upgrades. It goes off when any destructible component takes x% damage, instead of having these poor people semi-afking eating chips and watching Breaking Bad.

D: omg lol

On a side note it’s really sad that at any point a map is so dead that this can happen.

Seasons suck, period. It’s the same broken game that Anet keeps trying to turn into something competitive and people fall for it. It can’t be competitive because the scoring is bs and even worse it’s kittening boring.

TehPwnerer.7215:

XacTactX.6709:

Join the most organized guild on your server or transfer.

So that’s all WvW is? Unless you’re in the biggest guild or most crowded server there’s no point?

Pass.

It’s about who has dominant numbers around the clock, yes. A lot of people just use it for open world PvP without the sPvP restrictions since they don’t partake in the siege/capture part of it due to lack of interest or just outright lost hope of ever “winning” the week. The former usually following the realization of the latter.

Edit:

Ignore the “work” to make the server better bs some people spew on here. Play to have fun.

I don’t think there is any saving WvWvW, especially at this point where most(I’m hazarding a guess) of the players left only log on because of who they play with. So implementing a system(as if Anet would spend the resources) that forces players to choose a team each week with the risk of not being able to play with their friends would be problematic. Membership overlapping between guilds makes it worse, like not being able to roam with guild X because your raid, guild Y chose or was possibly forced onto a different server. WvWvW is built on a very flawed foundation.

Arrow carts are only annoying if you choose to fight within their range. By themselves they’re often ineffective and easily destroyed by everything from Omega auto attacks to run of the mill player weapon skills. Back off and build a treb or a well placed ballista, poof- AC problem gone.

King Amadaeus.8619:

A lot of guilds from T2 are moving to YB in the eleventh hour. Prepare your kitten YB, you are being boarded.

Holy kitten, just imagine the open field guilds with all that sup AC and treb support coming from the towers and keeps.

NA WvWvW population can support maybe three tiers, maybe. If Archeage flops maybe some will come back but probably not for long if Anet continues on this track. The PvErs are their target audience(they’re the ones who came into this sub forum purring about the last minute commander tag price change).

Honestly, I think having anonymous ally names tainted the first impression of EotM, by the time they changed it, it was too late. It helped to compound the issue of “Offense > Defense” that classic WvWvW maps have.

Because WvWvW is an unfinished side activity. You’re not supposed to care! =.=

Straegen.2938:

…

In the end, our small roaming guild will probably move to T1 just to get consistent quality fights.

Ehh, even NA T1’s PvDoor zones are expanding to be honest and I’ve played on all three recently since it’s way more fun to fight people you actually know. Main account came to BG from TC and alt is on JQ and heading to TC for a GvG team. Maps rarely queue outside of reset weekend rush, maybe now and then EBG has a 10 slot wait at prime time. I think some people gave up on GW2 because of the AA betas and Anet having the nerve to call colored commander tags and siege enhancements “big changes”.

Then there is the quality of fights. At this point it’s becoming mostly roving condi Thieves, power Rangers that pew pew from relative safety and bored larger groups that will chase solo/small teams across the map. It’s really common to have to resort to zerg dodging on EBG since the BLs are dry when I get on after 9pm pacific.

Has the bar been set so low that this tripe of an update is great news?

Look at all these “thank you”s for this kitten, lol the WvWvW playerbase just got Iceberg Slimmed.

I wonder, would these tags be the badge of the GW2 1%? Throw me a pm for the occupy LA protest lol.

I was on Borlis Pass during the 13 year war with Anvil Rock and Ehmry Bay and WvWvW had healthier turnout back then, I can’t imagine now. Not only do you learn a server’s tactics but you learn their population dead zones, which is how PPT climbs. Colors should be more random but the thing about randomized opponents is that it would, more often that not, emphasize the exponential participation differences between servers and players involved would likely end up thinking “Hey this is sucks too.” and end up back at square one where they’re not having fun.

To extend on why random opponents won’t work, many of the core issues have not been addressed, instead we got WvWvW ranks and the resulting power creep (which we had to bicker and kitten about for months to get an account bound implementation finally), the Bloodlust Ruins(we can debate the utility and fun factor of that til the cows come home) and EotM, while pretty, the rewards compounded by lopsidedly designed regions encouraged karma training. It didn’t help that when the map was first released, even your ally names were anonymous. Bah anyway rant over.

I’m guessing you haven’t been keeping up on these boards. I know the search function does not…function (lol it’s been what 2 years?) but there probably isn’t a page on here without talk of boring and lopsided matches, horrible grouping and reward systems, bugs, cheaters, defense being a joke, not knowing where the game is heading etc etc

Diem.3529:

1) What do you like best about WvW? What keeps making you come back for more? What keeps you interested or keeps it fun?

Fighting actual people. The chaotic ecosystem that is open world" PvP(as close as GW2 is going to get anyway). The people I play with.

Diem.3529:

2) What do you like least about WvW? What makes you frustrated about it or makes you want to stop WvW in favor of something else like PvE, PvP or even EotM? (I consider EotM play separate).

Some aspects of the game design plus the level of support make it a hot bed for laziness and cowardice. After two map completions and a strong dislike for dungeons, The Living Story and standing in small circles on small maps with limited stats, I log off when I’m done WvWvWing. I ktrain in EotM when I need levels on a new character and even then it’s painfully boring.

Diem.3529:

3) What tier are you in?

T1 NA.

Diem.3529:

4) Have you switched servers for WvW? Why?

Yes, twice. The idea of server pride seems silly. The server I was on since launch was stuck in constant PvDoor matchups with dwindling allied forces and enemy ktrains that were easily wiped. The bags were nice but it got old really fast. Fun is becoming elusive in WvWvW lately and so I won’t pay to transfer again, most of the people I play with are already playing Archeage beta.

That fact that the “safe eject” includes swiftness and stealth on top of a pretty long eject range is hilarious.

This is what constitutes a “feature pack”? After all this time and hush hush, ha!

1. Account bound commander tag color options that should be kittening free and there from launch (What’s next? “Increase your party size by one slot for just 800 gems!”)
2. An “Oh btw” preview of an arguably ugly armor skin(does the light and medium share the exact same skin?)

Now for WvWvW specific stuff

3. MOAR SIEGE (because Omegas weren’t stupid powerful before and coverage has totally been addressed)
4. Disable said siege for 45 seconds!(I wonder how these thrown traps will work given how prone walls are to AoEs)

Note: NO additional commander/squad functionality towards actual organization. NO private tags still. Really?!