Just noting that because of critical hits, dagger dps compared to DS dps is almost identical. Dagger has much more raw damage but DS crits always. They even out. (This is before calculating might stacking/vulnerability from DS1)
You get about 80% crit chance with the dagger build in a group (fury + banner of discipline). Dagger will out dps enough to make up for a few less crits. And a DS build wont have permanent DS uptime. Also keep in mind even with above 100% crit chance you can still fail to crit. There seems to be an invisible cap.
Yea I wasn’t certain about the one not wearing that armor (bit small on my phone). The first one I saw was the armored one.
Btw, we know that it’s accessible from LA. Which the dominion is. East of the map, where the road ends. That gate leads to the dominion.
Thats also not the Dominion of Winds. Dominion of winds would block off garrenhoff if that was the case and it wouldnt fit the the shape in the books or the fact that the wall bends southwards below kessex hills. I feel its more of the tengu just blocking it off because they dont want people there (extending their territory). But its not the actual dominion of winds.
It’s a no-brainer. It’s the dominion of the winds.
There’s even a tengu in the picture, I think. Look close.
Edit: make that two tengu. One is wearing very funky armor.
Ive only just started reading Sea of Sorrows. And so far I feel its a lot better written and more enjoyable than the previous books. They were good but they felt a bit out of touch with the lore.
Oh btw the potion should be replaced with a dungeon specific potion if you really want all the bonuses you can get. I often dont bother with a potion. Scholar runes are the best especially if you can stay above 90% hp. But if you cant stay above 90% go for ruby orbs. Ruby orbs are also the good cheap alternative.
I’m not even mad. I’m curious how they got a Feedback like that after the patch. That sent him to like 15% health.
Do damage modifiers effect feedback damage? If so that might be why hes using mantra’s?
He said in the video he didn’t have the trait. And it still wouldn’t have made that big of a difference.
When I say “that big of a difference,” I mean taking him down to like 20% health. Feedback doesn’t reflect that many projectiles anymore from what I’ve seen, so I’m almost wondering if this video was recorded some time ago and only just uploaded, maybe to ensure that they hold the record. If that’s the case, well played.
But if they used damage modifiers to make feedback hurt that much to compensate the lack of reflected projectiles? Thats just my theory on how they managed to speed it up. But yeah could be an old recording, does seem like a bit too much even with that smart use of mechanics. Obviously a phantasm mesmer wouldnt get that much bonus damage out of feedback.
Hi, Molch, you mentioned in another thread that theoretically dagger does 30%-50% more damage than axe or DS1. So does it mean that dagger is a better option than axe/DS build for a pure direct dps role? Thank you.
Haven’t you been listening to Nemesis? It has better DPS but (probably) worse DPS uptime! Have a dagger on the second weapon set and use it if you can but you can’t stand in 130 range 24/7 with a glass cannon build. Getting downed will make you lose more DPS than you gained by using the dagger.
To Molch: Interesting points and math! Thanks for spreading the message! It’s always easy to miss something and you pointed that out perfectly. Also kudos to Nemesis for admitting this. ^^
Man, I love this community. Everyone are so helpful. Keep doing what you do, guys!
The DPS uptime of Dagger is up to you. If there are people meleeing mossman in lvl 50 fotm with a glasscannon thief who has 12k hp, you can’t say that melee DPS uptime < range DPS uptime. And sometimes melee is even easier then range.
If you are experienced enough to use the dagger, you will do more damage. Especialy in organized groups.
Since you’re using one well, would Focused Rituals be a good alternative over Reaper’s Precision if you’re going with the 30/10/0/0/30 build?
If the situation needs you to use your well on range, Focused Rituals is a must. If you are fine in melee, it’s a don’t. Change your traits the same way you change your utilityskills – it always depends on the situation.
This. I have no issue meleeing 24/7 on my necro. I no longer even bother to take an axe anymore, I just run dagger warhorn and focus. Its very possible with competent players. Obviously nemesis’s build is very good for a safer option and for slightly less advanced/experienced players.
Vitality boosts lifeforce but it will reduce your effective healing. Toughness reduces the damage you take in DS aswell as outside and will improve your effective healing. Basically they both scale in DS. Id always recommend toughness unless you want to survive burst and arent worried about healing. If however we get a way to heal with lifeforce eventually then id say vitality could become better.
No mate, they’re not hypothetical, Well of Blood is extremely good support for WvW zergs and group fights, Blood Fiend is exceptional for leveling, they have their uses set in stone, you are not the meta king of all Necros.
The fact people are against something does not in any form justify changing it, that’s very silly of you to say, if i said “We should nerf the crap out of staff it’s toooooo useful” and people said “No it’s fine how it is” that does not mean i am right!! geez \o/
I’ll say it again.
I’m not up for a straight up nerf.
I’ve just pointed out the issue and proposed a solution. You may argue it doesn’t need a nerf, but saying there isn’t an issue is quite hard to do.
If they implemented your solution then they would have to up the base heal by quite a bit. Its the other heals which are the problem not Consume conditions.
If it is such an issue how come nearly everyone in this thread is against changing it, how come when people have explained scenarios where Necros choose the other heals you say “No one uses those” it just doesn’t make any sense, you’re not listening to reason.
Sorry to sound harsh friend but seriously come off your cloud bro.
Those scenarios listed are hypothetical and never happeing. In high-level PvE everyone is taking Consume Conditions. In high-level PvP everyone is taking Consume Conditions.
Who cares if in random casual PvE someone might be using Blood Fiend or Well of Blood? You can even complete the whole story without offhand weapon, if you want to.
The fact that any Necro is against changing it was expected, nobody wants to give up on the best heal of the Necromancer.
The simple reason is for everyone taking consume in high level is because even though the minion heal is pretty decent, minion builds are bad. The well is good but condi cleanse is very important in pvp so its needed much more than a slightly higher heal. If you nerf consume, necro’s will be even worse for survivability…. We need it and its not even as strong as it should be in my opinion.
Having said that Id like to see a lifeforce focused heal. Similar to healing surge on the warrior? Or maybe it passively restores lifeforce while in/out DS.
Thing to note is that signet of spite doesnt boost your power in DS. Honestly I think signet passives should work in DS. Would make signet of undeath useful for a DS bunker build.
Thing to note is if you have conditions like a fair amount of bleed stacks and burning on you the cast time on consume causes the bonus heal to not make up for the hp lost while casting. Unless you have loads of non damaging conditions on you at the same time. Its really not as strong as people make it out to be with its cast time.
I can agree with that on HotW. But underwater combat is actually quite fun with some classes. Necro is pretty strong and fun underwater. But yeah in general it needs to sorted out and fixed.
Its a good build. I dont agree with a lot of the choices you’ve made though. Feels like more of a solo roaming pve build to me. Might and vuln stacking isnt needed that much for dungeons because your group will be providing that for you (same with boon duration). For dungeons it would be overshadowed by target the weak builds for dps and the issue with bleed caps isnt a problem in proper groups as noone who is serious about dungeons takes condition damage.
Glad you did some good dps tests with the different weapons though. Alot of the stuff in this video helped me to understand what I can do to my build to maximise its potential in a group setting. Good work, I enjoyed the video regardless of the things I dont agree with.
Ps. I dont agree with your two rules though. The highest dps builds on other classes break atleast the first one most of the time and in some situations they break the second rule aswell.
So the blind cold and afraid build gets melted in 15s by the ubercrap 30/30/10 played by one of the worst players you have ever seen. GG owning yourself repeatedly in the face.
I laughed so hard at this xD
To be fair, if Tut Tut really just had 0% lf then yeah… kinda hard to battle another necro with 100%.
On the other hand, how can you (Altroll) evaluate Xom’s capabilities as a player if you observed one match that lasted 15 seconds against a build that isn’t made for dueling?
Wouldn’t it have been a lot better (for educational purposes) to fight Xom yourself with a competetive build, like your potentate…?
It wasn’t 15 seconds, it lasted around 23-35 seconds, which is average for a duel. He also decided to kite Tut into a small area where he could use Fear to his advantage.
Anyhow, that was the next step. I was going to test him personally on multiple classes and some of my Necro builds. My first fight against him I was going to use my Warrior, until he quit the test and went on to say this:
Which I actually was going to agree to and use my Potentate/Tormentor under 1 condition, that the fight take place on point. Which he swiftly ignored and told me that I could not use my Necro.
The screenshot attached to this post makes you look a lot worse than it makes Xo look. Just sayin’.
There was alot of his nonsense leading up to that, after a while Tut and myself got tired of him. I realized it was going no where. I didn’t screenshot until after he started being weird and quit the test. I was as respectable/nice as I could possibly be in the beginning, though still cynical that it wouldn’t work. I’ve dealt with forumites before in competitive games, and they are generally never swayed. As far as I’m concerned none of you are focused on my builds anymore, and just my general attitude. If you don’t like it, ignore it.
If you do not believe my screenshots/word, Tut Tut is my witness, and halfway through the conversation another person with no past ties to me joined the convo and also began to immediately find Xom to be unable to understand basic subject matter.
You are one of those forumites aswell though. You disregard almost everyones opinion and claim they are wrong with no proof.
I think what TheMightyAltroll is doing is a great job. No matter how you look at it, it’s an effort to help the community in understanding Necros better. This is his thread, and some players have actually enjoyed some of the builds he posted, so I don’t see why people must feel empowered to post hateful comments.
I am highly disappointed at the amount of top tier players who just can’t let their ego go, let alone how sensitive they can be. Let’s take words for example, meta to someones eyes may mean ‘This is the best build atm’ but to me from his title it was just something catchy to capture his list of builds and tie in with his in-game name. And that makes sense. If you guys are worried some newcomers will be mislead, let them try it first and learn first-hand that these builds aren’t viable. Most rookies are not going to learn anything by just copying ‘top-tier’ (really just fotm) builds. It takes a lot of variety to figure out what this class really is and understand truly what is viable and what isn’t.
Also, rank means nothing and getting on leaderboards means nothing. Top tier players are just fortunate enough to have connections to be able to build better skills by playing with and/or against better players but sometimes I feel like they do have tunnel vision because they’ll more than not play to win than try to make things work.
Criticism is okay, but try it out for yourself before making claims. Seriously tired of ‘Nuh-uh’ battles, but high respect to those who can tolerate this joke of a ‘top-tier’ community. The only ones atm that stand out as super nice is team AL. Keep up the good work Mighty.
Somehow I dont think you’ve read the thread. The top tier players encouraged him, and then he flamed them for their constructive critism. Its his ego which is the problem, not the people posting feedback.
I think its better suited for blood magic and not really spite. I feel like the Spite line minors are far to focused on sustain. Parasitic bond is ok to keep as it is though i guess. But death into life is completey crap seeing as healing power is useless on necro and it doesnt fit with a power tree imo.
And siphoned power must be a joke. Might when hit under 25% hp? So being rewarded for being a bad player and almost dead. Should be changed to something like might on crits or give the group 5 stacks of might when entering DS. Or just another damage modifier.
I know what your getting at. But atleast with my change if you want burning for extra pressure you are very restricted. At the moment you can go 30/20/10/0/10 for pretty good lifeforce generation. Its not a big change but I think it will make people think more about whether they want to restrict themselves that much. Obviously dhuumfire or terror needs to be nerfed numbers wise aswell but thats a given. The other option is to put both dhuumfire and terror in curses grandmaster but then id imagine thats not a very popular idea.
It was SotG. Yeah basically they agreed necro’s condi pressure is too much and needs to be nerfed. But they are going to be buffing necro survivability to compensate.
Ive tried your potentate build. Its a good variation of GC and survivability. However it is not nearly as effective as you make it out to be. Its so easily countered by good positioning and plays by other opponents it wouldnt be viable in high level tpvp.
How do u know u used that build properly? Cos u tried it once? I’m not commenting on those builds since i rarely play necro and i’m mainly a ranger but most ppl on this forum are nonsense. The OP offered to help ppl any time he’s on. He’s willing to show how to play those builds. He’s ready to prove himself in game. It’s not like he’s hiding behind his computer like most “i iz pr0” players do. So ye i really don’t understand you guys…talk to him and play with him, then you can come here and kitten talk all you want. Is it that hard? Or maybe some of you are actually scared he might be right on some points?
Because ive seen his video and how he plays it and how he describes playing it. I also use to play a very similar build in pvp. And run wells in PvE. Ive been able to dominate with that type of build loads of times. But even so I can still see it has flaws. Im not blinded by individual skill making it seem decent or bad players getting destroyed by it making it seem amazing. Its not a meta type build as it has very big issues which would just be exploited to hell by decent players.
Im far from a high skilled pvper but even I can see obvious ways to beat the build even if ive never met someone who actually did it to beat me. Its a good build and very effective at lower tier but its definately not meta.
Also theres no way I can play with him. Im on EU hes on NA.
Ive tried your potentate build. Its a good variation of GC and survivability. However it is not nearly as effective as you make it out to be. Its so easily countered by good positioning and plays by other opponents it wouldnt be viable in high level tpvp.
I expect you will take my post as an insult even though its just constructive critism. But whatever.
It’s only possible if you enter straight after cut scene and dps the hell out of that tree,
So in short, it’s only possible if you do what you’re supposed to do.
A guildmate once was saying that Lupicus should take 10-15 minutes with a good team and when I pointed out the (at the time) minute-plus record kill from DnT, the response was:
“Well yeah, if all you do is damage.”
I wish I kept a catalogue of all the idiotic thing GW2 players have said.
Yeah it was nerfed into the ground so its no longer viable as a source of weakness in pve because of the ICD. Which is why i now only go 25 into curses and rely on weakening shroud for aoe weakness.
But for total damage you have to factor the 30% extra power per second being applied, and the noncrit damage, plus I think the optimal DS build only has 40% base crit or so.
So (1*0.9*2.62+1*(1-0.9))/(1.3*0.6*2.47+1.3*(1-0.6)) = 1.005. Half a percent difference, very close. All the little extra stuff like 3% extra damage from target the weak over strength of undeath, base attack values and so forth is going to come into play. These are theoretical maximums of course, and we could talk all day about the relative virtues of range, maximum deathshroud uptimes, group compositions with and without fury, etc, etc. I just think it’s probably best if we establish the dps difference, if any, between dagger 1 and ds 1 in a vaccuum before we move ahead with the rest. That makes it easier to apply different situational modifiers to the results.
It would be quite interesting if our ranged option does more dps than our melee option.
Those equations seem to be quite correct after I corrected mine with taking noncrits into account but DS build, with 30/10/0/0/30 with full ascended berserker with ruby orbs has 47% base crit rate without any sigils or food buffs. It might actually be beneficial to go scholar with DS build as you might be able to maintain 90% easier.
Yeah Scholar would definately be better for the DS build. Although I think Scholar would also be good for the dagger build in most dungeons. If you know the mechanics you shouldnt really get knocked below 90% that often.
Clearly, it was a bug. These things happen. Quite often, actually, if you pay the tiniest bit of attention to any MMO on the planet. They get fixed. It would be unfair to penalise people playing the game in good faith beforehand, so those people get to keep their money.
really, you think that was clearly a bug? when my brother mentioned it (we were on skype at the time), we both thought: ‘finally, an item which can either be used or sold for a somewhat appropriate price’. if you look at exo prices, 3s sounds much more like a bug than 60s.
we actually thought ANet finally realized how ridiculous the vendoring prices are and they would slowly start to change them to realistic values (especially with all the soulbound/accountbound stuff you can’t trade).
yeah, I guess it’s naive to think they would improve such obvious oversights after less than a year.
Look at exotic vendor prices, and then tell me you think 60s was a more likely price than 3s. If all rares and exotics had vendor prices that matched the prices on the TP, you would break the economy. Every time you vendor an item, it introduces that much gold into the game. A huge amount of rares and exotics drop every day, across all servers. What you call ‘obvious oversights’, most would describe as ‘a necessity for a working economy.’
It’s a bug. There’s not going to be one exotic worth massively more to vendor than all the others. There’s not going to be one JP with massively greater guaranteed rewards than all the others. The fact that other people made money from a bug does not mean you are entitled to do so also.
Yeah but you cant sell these exotics on TP or even salvage them for ecto’s. Price could definately be a bit higher (20silver). Id rather get a random drop than the exotic, because atleast then i have a chance to get a rare and can salvage for ectos.
I was thinking the same spoj, valkyrie has power as primary while cavalier has toughness. I was also thinking that with too much toughness you get more aggro as this is how it’s supposedly works. Was also thinking as Bajenalex that with only vit you drop fast anyway that’s why I have a hard time choosing.
I’ve seen people mention that vitality boosts your DS as well somehow but I have a hard time seeing this. Is it true?
Vitality boosts your lifeforce pool. Which is why so many necro’s think they should stack vitality. The thing is you still lose effective healing. But toughness also scales in DS (reduces damage in both DS and base hp). So toughness will always be better unless you need to absorb large amounts of burst and arent worried about efficient healing.
You want to keep power as your primary stat so go with valkyrie. In the high level fractals survivability wont help at all as you will still be 1shot. But you can still achieve better dps with a deathly perception DS build with valkyrie and sharpening stones so its not a bad choice.
Sure, you want power as the primary stat but won’t going vitality without toughness give you a big health pool which will drop fast? You can take 1 round of bursts but you can’t maintain a high health for as long as you would with toughness. If you go for toughness, your heal will be worth more.
What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah toughness is better than vit due to heal scaling and damage mitigation. But the valk gear allows you to survive a bit more burst even if you cant heal it back up efficiently. In high fractals survivability isnt worth it as ive said already. The best form of survivability is to kill things as fast as possible. If you go Valkyrie with some Soldier trinkets then that should be enough. Although Id personally never go into that much survivability.
You want to keep power as your primary stat so go with valkyrie. In the high level fractals survivability wont help at all as you will still be 1shot. But you can still achieve better dps with a deathly perception DS build with valkyrie and sharpening stones so its not a bad choice.
Id feel a lot safer meleeing with my necro against mossman than with my dps guard. Sure dps guard has blocks and invuln, but with only 12k hp and no toughness one slip up is a down.
DS is just going to get eaten so much that a DS build isnt a good idea for dps. You want sustained dps even if you cant cleave you can make up for it with wells, locust swarm and even a beserker scepter if you want.
Think I might try and sort out some video recording soon. If i can get it to work without lagging then Ill see if can record a fractal run in full melee with my necro.
Dhuumfire provides every necro with target the weak a 2% raw damage boost. So its not a bad choice to have 1 necro run it. Although I wouldnt bother as close to death is far better. When you engage in a fight you open with reapers touch for vuln, pop locust swarm for aoe damage, flash DS for weakening shroud and dagger auto attack. All 4 conditions on the targets almost instantly, giving you a 8% damage boost. Although for large groups you generally pop some wells and use your ds aoe skills before auto attacking with dagger.
The reason you go 25 in curses is for Target the weak. A base damage modifier is so much better than crit damage. As crit damage gets boosted by that modifier anyway. You only need 3 conditions on your target to get a better damage boost than strength of undeath. But with a 30/25 build or 30/30 you can get vuln, cripple, bleed and weakness with very high uptime. You could also make one necro take dhummfire to boost the groups dps as well. Its the damage modifiers which are important in a power build. Lich form also benefits from the damage modifier. Also I couldnt give a kitten about taking away from a condition builds dps, conditions are bad for pve and condition builds should never be used in a group where you are trying to maximize dps (then again necro’s shouldnt be used in that group either xD). Also a few 1 second bleed stacks arent gonna effect a condi necro much as they wont have 25 stacks of bleed at all times anyway.
For a dps guardian with barely any utility you go 10/25/0/10/25 Which is missing out on 200 power but it doesnt matter because you are getting more damage modifiers by going into the other trait lines, they make up for the loss of power or crit damage.
Unfortunately if we applied the same logic to necro and went for 25 in curses and 25 in soul reaping we would lose dps because the damage modifiers arent good enough to make up for the loss of power and close to death.
