I didnt get anything when i did it. But when i checked I already had 38/38. Seems it gave me the achieve without telling me and when i just fell into the water by accident while jumping.
Whoever last applied burning deals the damage from it. So your condition damage will be overwritten by the last person to apply burning. Seeing as 1 guardian can apply permanent burning your going to have trouble keeping the burning to scale with your own condition damage.
Basically it will be overwritten by the guardian and do low damage because guardians dont stack condition damage. You wont get anything out of it except the odd single tick of damage in pve. However Dhuumfire is very strong in pvp and wvw for hybrid builds.
Really ? I tested fire with my engi and a friend of mine’s guardian.
First test : I applied burning with blowtorch and right after than he applied burning. He did not see any tick from his burning until mine had ended.
Second test : he applied burning first and I applied burning right after him. I did not see any tick from my burning until his burning had ended.
So I do not think that the last burning applied overwrite the burning that is already applied on the target.
Ah ok first application then. Still same principle. If guard burns first then you wont get any burn damage. Therefore pointless in a group.
Mace main hand, be it on a guardian or warrior, is trash for PVE, for example.
Just to further illustrate why PUGs can no longer do this boss, there was a guardian in map chat the other day (DB), who said he uses Mace/Shield with Staff as swap, and when I told him that Mace will have trash damage output, he said
“Well this Guardian build isn’t meant to do damage.”
I mean… At least he’s using appropriate weapon(s) for what he’s wanting to achieve. I feel like there’s far too much hostility towards people who don’t build towards maximum dps efficiency. Like, sure. Go ahead and troll someone who says they’re running full sentinels armour while they claim they do more damage than a zerker. But I don’t really think people should belittle others for running a class how they wish to do it if they aren’t pretending that their build is the best/pro.
The problem is those players dont realise their builds actually make content harder than if they go atleast semi dps spec.
I said that the Staff should be our melee weapon with cleave (unique to Necro only) since it already has a scythe graphic on #1. To me this really makes the most sense without creating a new weapon set. The only problem is that the marks might need to be changed into something else to fit the theme.
And we wouldnt have a long range weapon anymore. People in this thread should think about it logically. Torch mainhand….. yeah cause thats gonna happen. We currently have a weapon for every role except melee cleave. So we actually dont really need any more weapons. But if they do give us one, it should definately be a power based cleave weapon or some aoe melee weapon.
I mean no offense by this, I’m sure you’re an excellent player.
But it’s pretty clear you’re new to the class and have yet to catch on to some of the differences between it and other classes. For example; unlike warrior’s Utility-dependence, Ranger is heavily Trait-dependent almost to the point of malfunction. You’re not going to do well running without them, and I’d recommend against upscaling a Ranger whenever possible.
Additionally the core concept for these weapons are different from what you may have come to expect, and you need to play them differently to get the most out of them. For example, Sword builds up might stacks on the pet. If you’re not using it with an aggressive F2 you’re sort of missing out. If you’re having problems micromanaging a pet’s survival long enough that you can’t go in with Sword and make the most of the might building, you shouldn’t be switching to bear, instead consider devourers and spiders while you’re still figuring things out as might stacks affect their condition based auto-attacks and F2s.
Im amazed all of you had the patience to stick it out for 3 full hours. I remember my first arah run, was getting close to 2 hours and we were all about to give up.
The DS build wont be as strong as 30/25/0/0/15 in a group with fury, might and banners. More reliable dps aswell. The advantage of the DS build is its good solo because you dont need team buffs to achieve good crit chance and might.
Next week i will be attempting the CoF p1 fast run with my new glass cannon build. This time however i will take 3 berserker necromancers 1 guardian and 1 mesmer… since this seems to be the “necromancer” equivalent to the best “warrior” setup at the moment, as in 3 warriors 1 guardian 1 mesmer.
Sorry, but how the hell is a guardian good in a cof group? 4 warriors 1 mesmer/3 warriors, 1 thief 1 mesmer is still the fastest setup.
^ This… a guardian will just slow you down. Take 4 necro and 1 mesmer. Dont forget you are attempting to see how fast a NECRO group can do it
4 necros doesnt work because of lack of fury and might. In the thief cof run they took 1 warrior for banners, fury and fire field.
If you cleanse the necro’s intitial burst then focus them down. They die really fast. Use stability to prevent chain fear and bait out corrupt boon if they have it. The current condi necro has no defense, very poor lifeforce generation and limited high cooldown condi transfers (Basically they can be killed just as fast with conditions or burst) and still have no escapes.
Sometimes I dont bother to retrait my guardian to dps spec. With the AH build in full zerker gear you can still hit around 8k easily with whirling wrath. With a proper dps spec it goes up a lot more. This is with a buffed up group though (banners + might + fury).
Maybe add/change some minion traits which give minions fury so we can actually customize minion builds to be more than just bunker builds with fairly decent damage. Mesmers can get fury and regen on their clones and they can permanently spawn them.
The problem is: Necros were very strong in 1v1s before the patch, but had close to zero chance of survival when up against 2+ opponents.
The addition of Dhuumfire just amplified this effect. A burning/terror/bleed/torment pressure combo is almost impossible to beat if you’re not a necro yourself with Well of Power and/or Plague Signet. Yeah, you might be squishy when traiting for this combo but it’s not like you’d have significantly more mobility or survivability if you ran with a different build.
What most necros really wanted from this patch is more attrition but now it seems that Dhuumfire pigeonholed necros into condi-bursters.
Imo Dhuum needs to go.
I would hardly say they were strong in 1v1s. When I hear/read “Strong in 1v1” I think Mesmer, Thief, Engi, Ranger after their buff. Necro is the last on that list, tied with warrior. This was pre-patch mind you. It took a lot of timing, patience, and skill development to become on par with what most professions did by simply mashing buttons.
But I have to agree with almost everything else. I feel that we’ve been a little over buffed and I think it’s MAINLY due to Dhuumfire being in our condi duration tree, which just so happens to be our power tree. This entices us to put points into condi duration for a power condition, which in turn increases the power of that condition PLUS other conditions and especially Fear which a lot of people are complaining about. It also increases the power of hybrids as it benefits both their direct damage AND their condi damage (both in duration and burst (burning)).
Moving Dhuumfire to another tree as a GM would entice players to either use it or drop it (depending on the tree, since some are still rather meh) and would bring condi builds back in line. No one ever used that tree running a condi build pre-patch because it wasn’t necessary and did nothing for us really.
I’m no expert though, it just seems like it has had the biggest impact on all the builds. I don’t feel like it should be removed entirely, I just think it’s placed in the wrong tree. It should really just be in the condi tree with the same effect, imo.
Actually before the patch we were very strong at 1v1. Even in a glass build you could beat most classes without too much difficulty. Tanky builds could beat eles 1v1 unless the ele was godskilled. The problem was even if you could win 1v1 you would still lose the point as you would just get cc’ed to hell. And as soon as help arrived for your opponent you were generally screwed because of no escape or disengage.
I think Dhuumfire is in the right place, if it was in the curses tree it would be far too broken. You would have terror + dhuumfire and then still be able to go 30 in soul reaping for fear duration and soul marks. That would be far stronger than it is now. Although I still think spites minor traits need changing to suit power necro’s better.
I will admit i felt op when using the new condi build in tpvp last night. But when i was actually focused i was cannon fodder. New build has insane pressure and damage but lacks survivability and escape. Necro should be left relatively untouched for a while until things balance out before people start crying for nerfs. I do think Dhuumfire could have a slightly higher internal cooldown though.
Do you think being very loud in your thread and stubborn makes you a better necromancer than people who ranked higher than you? Also, are your builds (builds you stole) better than people who have better ranks than you simply because you say so?
Can’t say i have ever felt that axe builds LF faster than dagger. Especially if you pair it up with warhorn. I could have sworn that unless i missed a patch note, axe #2 only generates LF once during the channel.
Yeah but that channel gives you about 40% lifeforce. Focus also gives good lifeforce. Dagger has good sustained lifeforce generation, just takes a while to build up to full.
unless this got changed recently i seem to remember axe 2 getting less than 10%
It says 8% but it always seems to almost half fill my bar so i dont really pay attention to the numbers on tooltips.
Beserker necro’s will never be picked over warriors and thieves. It is just the most useful type of build you can run when taking a necro into a dungeon.
Can’t say i have ever felt that axe builds LF faster than dagger. Especially if you pair it up with warhorn. I could have sworn that unless i missed a patch note, axe #2 only generates LF once during the channel.
Yeah but that channel gives you about 40% lifeforce. Focus also gives good lifeforce. Dagger has good sustained lifeforce generation, just takes a while to build up to full.
This. Not to take away from your thread but my 30/30/10 build became meta in the high tier scene. and will probably put out the most pressure possible IF played right. I will say good job for offering up a list of builds people can try though.
Well, maybe stupid question, but what exactly is this super 30/30/10 build? I always have trouble if people only quote these numbers without further explanation on gear/traitchoice/playstyle (of course, obvious to them, but not for the readers)… some links would be great
You raise an interesting question. I’m curious what others are using on their new versions of 30/30/10. I can’t decide between 2 lyssa/4 nightmare, 6 nightmare, and 6 undead. Tier 1 spite feels like a wasted slot too.
I think the only thing left to try is axe/X and dagger/X weapon set. This is mainly for people that do not go 10 in death magic. I think in that situation, you may as well put the staff away, rely purely on DS as the AoE output, and grab 2 weapon sets and find some rotation against single targets. Pretty much use dagger for dmg, and back off into DS in scenarios where you cannot maintain dps in melee.
I dont use staff or death magic in any version of a power build unless its for long range aoe in wvw. Axe and staff abviously have their advantages of being safe, but you really dont need them. For the pure DS build though axe is the best for lifeforce generation so that atleast has a place.
I wish they changed the minor traits in spite and did some more stuff with blood and death magic. Those were the most obvious areas to alter. Spite minor traits are awful for any dps build and we all know death magic and blood magic really arent as good as they should be.
Ok just got a 25second kill but i interrupted my locust swarm so that didnt get cast till mid fight and then the giant chain stomped 2 times in a row at the end. Had to dodge 3 attacks total. :<
Also bare in mind a DS build stacks vuln and might better, so solo it probably is quite even.
Edit: Around 25 seconds seems to be the best i can get when being forced to dodge so many stomps and not having the best sigils (Need to get bloodlust and swap focus sigil from energy to force). But in a group with full might and vuln i deffo think id beat a DS build, id also have perma fury in a group so wouldnt be getting unlucky on crits.
Conclusion: DS build better for solo and for groups with sub optimal party buffs, dagger build best for dungeon groups with optimal buff uptime.
I have seen quite a few people who are saying it in different replies. Some are claiming that dagger auto attacks hit harder without testin DS with axe training on. Or they straight up forget that DS is a powerful aoe option too.
Dagger is still stronger. Axe training makes a small difference but DS will never be more damage than dagger + warhorn on its own. But with Tainted shackles a Target the weak dagger build gets even more damage.
I honestly don’t know which one currently does more DPS. But if you’d like to test the current dagger damage, put on full selfbuffs (including sigil stacks and food, but not envinromental weapons) and go to the left of Melandru’s temple in cursed shore and kill the Veteran Risen Giant. You can use 22 seconds (my approximate time with DS spam) as a benchmark value for the kill.
Not sure how id time that seeing as recording would lag me like kitten
Dhuumfire is pointless in pve. Guardians, eles and engineers will just overwrite your burn damage in PvE as it only stacks duration and you cant all get the damage tick.
and as it stacks in duration, the duration wont stack? i mean i tick my fire (4.x secs) then at sametime elementalist use a fire thing (4 secs) wont it make a 8 secs burning ticking with my condition duaration for 4.x secs then ticking with the elementalist condition damage for the other 4 secs? sorry im im noob and this isnt the case, but i dont really know hoe the burning acutally does when x2 people use it at same time.
Whoever last applied burning deals the damage from it. So your condition damage will be overwritten by the last person to apply burning. Seeing as 1 guardian can apply permanent burning your going to have trouble keeping the burning to scale with your own condition damage.
Basically it will be overwritten by the guardian and do low damage because guardians dont stack condition damage. You wont get anything out of it except the odd single tick of damage in pve. However Dhuumfire is very strong in pvp and wvw for hybrid builds.
I have seen quite a few people who are saying it in different replies. Some are claiming that dagger auto attacks hit harder without testin DS with axe training on. Or they straight up forget that DS is a powerful aoe option too.
Dagger is still stronger. Axe training makes a small difference but DS will never be more damage than dagger + warhorn on its own. But with Tainted shackles a Target the weak dagger build gets even more damage.
Dhuumfire is pointless in pve. Guardians, eles and engineers will just overwrite your burn damage in PvE as it only stacks duration and you cant all get the damage tick.
I almost fell down my chair with all the necro goodies in that patch. And yet here we are complaining?! Jeez.
In all honesty, it has mainly to do with the fact they buffed things that no one was really complaining about (like condition builds and the damage output they could do), and ignored things like siphon scaling (effectively), death magic, adding more diverse trait choices in the trees.
I honestly saw next to no posts that said…. NECROS NEED MOAR DAMAGE!!1213!
And yet here we are, with a massive boost in damage for conditions, and a modest boost in certain power builds. It is just strange….
NECROS NEED MOAR POWER DAMAGE!!1213!
But yeah find i strange they buffed the damage of the most popular type of build in sPvP and only buffed its weakness slightly (lifeforce generation). They didnt really touch the other less popular builds much at all. The power builds havent really been given more damage at all, they just have more reliable sustained damage now.
We’ll let you discover the specifics of the final encounter yourselves, but if you’ve been paying attention to mechanics used throughout the dungeon, you should find yourself equal to the task. Beware, though – Mai Trin’s deadly rapier and Horrik’s brutal cannon combine to pose quite the challenge!
Based on that, I fully expected the final boss battle to be a combination of everything we’d seen so far:
- Cannon Barrages
- Knock-Lock
- Laser Walls
- Jumping Pads
- Mines
…and it wasn’t.
Well the laser walls buffed the golems. The aoe debuffs Mai, so there are some similarities. (Using the mechanics to deal with the boss). Still pretty dissapointing.
Probably lower the DS damage.. I heard people hitting for 9-10k. Thats like 10k DPS right there, and dont forget fear and burning aswell. If something needs fixing thats it. I do not want to play necro if its look upon as freaking OP
If they nerf DS damage Necro will be so far behind other classes in potential damage that you may aswell just delete them. 10k dps is lower than most classes current dps and you cant even reliably achieve that with DS. Dagger warhorn/focus is more damage and more reliable than DS.
It is silly and i see no reason for the sets to not be account bound. But just look at it as a lesson learned. My guildy did the exact same thing with a full set of gear for his newly leveled mesmer. We all laughed at him for it. He didnt bother complaining, he saw the funny side of his mistake and salvaged it all for ectos then saved the tokens up again.
Every class has a utility/elite that grants them a reasonable amount of stability on a reasonable CD/stability amount ratio. The only other class that can come close to Necro’s pain is the Engineer, who gets 4 seconds of stability OR stealth randomly. Let’s be honest, that is actually pretty nice whichever you get.
The necromancer, though, has not one single utility/elite outside of transformation, that gives them a reasonable amount of stability. Anet has come close to fixing this problem, all they have to do is make the stability pulse with the Well of Power for the full FIVE seconds.
Anyone of you that actually sits down and reads this page will see this. If Anet said Necro isn’t supposed to be able to use stability, well I guess that’s a huge exploit people can use against necromancers in PvP.
The 1 second stab is for the cast time. How many times do we have to say? The same thing was added to other skills that have cast times and have now become stunbreaks. The devs said in the last SotG they dont want to give necro stab, vigor and invuln because its not the necro’s theme. If we ever do get proper stability on a utility it will probably be on spectral armour.
but that last boss is one of the most boring/pointless fights Ive played in an mmo.
Did you ever tried the boss of the permanent dungeons ?
Not even the meatbags in HotW are as boring as AR final boss. The cannon phases could definately be shorted or cut 1 or 2 of them out entirely. I enjoyed the laser room, that was a pretty nice mechanic. The ideas for the final boss are alright, but it does drag on too much and you just become bored after one phase.
This thread is unnacceptable! My human necro never gets boring!
I rerolled a human mesmer because i got so fed up with the kitten boring asuran animations. Not seen a single charr I like the look of enough to lvl one except for the story achieves.
Depends what type of group you are playing with. If you plan on being in one of those casual groups where everyone ranges you may aswell go condi with rabid. If you want to be as effective as possible in an efficient group, go melee with beserker.
