Seems to me like ANET reached out to some pro league players.
ANET: Guys, the season sucks. we know it. We are afraid of losing players. If we lose players, there won’t be a pro league.
Pro League: Ok, ANET. Give us a script and we’ll see if anyone believes us in the forums.
Also, lol @ deleting Clerics. Ele doesn’t get carried from having 13k HP so much, man.
I’m sure your team just uses an ele because Wakkey looks good playing it. *facepalm
Ele is a huge problem and needs to be nerfed
How do you balance pvp? How do game developers balance the classes between players of varying skill?
You balance it based on players who are at even skill level based on actual game history. You then build matchmaking to create games that allow similar people to play together.
I was genuinely curious when I started on this alt account to see if I would get stuck in MMR Hell.
Oddly enough, I find it easier on my alt account. Not sure why.
People gotta understand that the Devs giving props to a guy’s analysis on the problems with S2 matchmaking doesn’t legitimize every loss as a matchmaking problem.
To recap, Evan Lesh acknowledged the thread where the OP made a really great model, the highlight takeaway being that Glicko barely even adjusts your rating if you are constantly fighting matchups with a big discrepancy in skill, so it’s very inefficient to get out of low MMR in your PIP range.
The modeled 4.5% of the people who have tanked MMR in their PIP range (from memory) are not really given equal opportunity to get out, because Glicko only cares to adjust your rating a respectable amount for matches that are evenly matched, and determine skill.
This is the kitten problem.
If you’re trading wins, and come on the forums to complain that MMR isn’t on your side, and S2 sux, well, probably people will say it’s totally on you.
Shout out to the minority who are in the pit and experience huge loss streaks, ArenaNet needs to safeguard and prevent that from happening.
Tips:
Take breaks, do not queue into repeated losses. Try and lose people who you encounter that are practically on the enemy’s side.
Never do your off-class profession achievements all at once.
Play on peak hours as much as possible.
If life can allow you to do these things, you pretty much have a workaround to the S2 big issue. Other than those failings that the minority is caught up by, I’m sure the silent majority things S2 >S1 for sure. I don’t need to point out many other improvements made in S2, but I imagine S3 will plug that up.
S2 was not an improvement to S1. The improvement was to eliminate the bunker Mesmer/condi rev spam we saw in S1. The actual season wasn’t a big improvement.
The problem in general is that matchmaking is bad. Watch the video of the guy who made it to legend and shows the screen for every one of his games. I consider a good game where the winning team doesn’t win by more than 100.
I actually think that towards the end of a division or the beginning of a new one is the worst possible place for matchmaking?
Why? When someone crosses into a new division, they use that as a chance to work on their profession achievements. So, they play a class where they are not very skilled.
I’ve seen people in diamond that have lower skills than someone in division 2. They will tell you they are playing a different character.
ANET really needs to remove the 10 win on an alt achievement.
DPS meters would mostly just show what classes are currently OP. The only benefit is if you want to compare 2 people of the same class.
Not really worth the development time.
I understand why others are complaining. They were expecting this based on comments from ANET.
That said, I am personally fine with putting new legendaries on hold (although a smarter decision would have been to release new legendaries in the “old” format instead of all the quest stuff). Focus instead should be placed on getting new PvE content, fixing WvW, and getting PvP seasons working well.
Oh, and I’d like to see some enhancement to the mastery system. Seems half thought. Just please, please, please, don’t add another “side leveling” aspect to the next expansion.
Honestly dude balance isn’t that bad. I know that’s not the popular thing to say. It’s not as interesting as “balance sucks, so OP, elite specs ruined the game, I hate this game.”
I play mainly Rev, DH, and DD thief and guess what? They all do pretty well for their given roles. I see warriors brave into a match and do some awesome plays. I tried engi and eli for a while and they do okay just not my style. Druid has some good potential and everyone seems to think Reaper is most op.
Now the point: META doesn’t suck. META is a lie. Balance is fine. If a class sucks for you, you’re not playing it right.
**mic drop
If you think balance is fine, you aren’t playing the same game. Some classes are OP and some are definitely UP.
Put it another way, compare how often you see 3 necros on a team compared to how often you see 3 warrior or 3 thieves.
A person’s view on whether s2 is based on whether they are playing one of the OP classes and if MMR is on their side.
If true to both, you are loving it.
If false to one or both, you are hating it.
You guys need to understand that ANET does take balance very seriously. They really do want balance.
The problem is that the current balance team isn’t very good at it.
TBH skilled players are still hundred of times better than a balanced comp. The only time I feel like my team lost cause comp is when they have an ele and we dont. I’ve faced countless times comps that soft-countered my team and we’ve won simply cause we were better, while its really really uncommon that I lose simply because the enemy comp was better.
That’s only true in a scenario when matchmaking sucks and you don’t have even skill on both teams. Unfortunately, that is the state of season 2.
If you did have even skill, then comp is really important.
Well, the issue is that once someone hits legendary, there isn’t a lot of fun in playing that anymore. It’s not like anyone looks at the leaderboard and says “oh wow, those are the best players in the game” The best players are in the pro league.
So, that returns to the key point. After legendary, why not start over on another account?
Thief is pure cancer…these never ending dodges are just crap…but necro is even more roll face cancerous.
So I bet anet will keep buff this kitten
If it is bad for the game then it needs help philosophy has just been a disaster for so long…
Maybe it will change now than collin has left…lol how can I have still some hope…
Thief is mostly useless unless played by maybe 10 of the top players in the game.
That said, I would like to see the evade on staff 5 removed.
condi Mesmer needs a huge nerf. Can’t believe the OP forgot that.
Necro and condi Mesmer both wreck scrapper.
Ele/Druid should be able to outsustain a scrapper
So what’s the solution?
Remove MMR.
If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.
no one cares,there are 3 years old bugs never fixed.
Nah. Just started seeing it recently. It happens a lot now.
@OP:
On a positive note, a lot of people on the forums are requesting that the new desert BL be removed. The alpine maps were much better for roaming
Well, if you revert back to the old maps, I hope we get something in compensation. Considering we aren’t getting all 16 new legendaries that were promised (this also kind of makes at least one mastery a little pointless), I’m going to start wondering when you will take back the HoT PvE maps and gliding… Even if the DBL isn’t as good as the alpine maps, its lame to consider taking it back. Just do what most of the forum wants and fix the DBL and also add the alpine maps to a rotation.
Thanks for working on WvW though, it’s a good thing for a lot of us.
No. most of the forum wants to get rid of the desert borderland maps. There is a reason why last night in T2 there was a 50 person queue on EB and mostly empty maps in the BLs. Alpine was 100x better.
While ANET is at it, I hope they remove the rest of the junk from HoT as well. Banner, airships, etc. The first good step was removing the PvE event.
foefire foefire foefire. It gets boring playing the same map every day.
Also, I’ll never understand why so many people love that PvE map anyway. Fight to 350, do some PvE, win. Boring.
Yes its true that no class is currently so above others, that it would be worth stacking it.
On the other side, the bottom 3 classes arent even considered viable.
And the top 6 classes power creep in defense has gone so up, that were only killing with dots making it a cooldown war, while the crowd always enjoys power zerkers oneshoting each other at any moment.
So yea, its not horrid zzzz meta of 10x rezz and 99% resistance uptime, but its just not the exciting one and a thrid of classes are left out ( or two thirds need more shaves rather).
And yet again, the classes that can sustain the most damage while remaining moderately offensive rise to the top. Cant we just agree once and for all that WE DONT ACTUALLY LIKE EXPLOSIVE AND FAST PASSED META?.
You draw the wrong conclusion from your comment. People run those types of builds because the reward to risk ratio is the highest. People play PvP to win, not to have the most fun.
Not the answer you want exactly, but necro is a hard counter for engi. The same is true for a condi mesmer vs engi fight.
You shouldn’t be fighting against them 1 on 1. Engi is a counter for more direct dps builds.
I can’t believe you even bothered with him, here is what he said on another thread
You will see thieves. If they do well you might see a DH or two as killing thieves is the only thing they’re the best at.
You will not see a Warrior. All of their roles are provided better by other classes.
He is either trolling or don’t know what he us typing. Add to DH capping potential, their ability to hold point, their cc in teamfight and their dps. Sometimes it just better to ignore knaves.
Number of thieves in pro league: 1.
Number of DH in pro league: 0.Tell me again who doesnt know what they are talking about.
If you think that proves a point, you are completely clueless.
Hey guys! A team that got rekt ran a thief so that means DH is worse. *facepalm
I find it even more hilarious that you guys argue which is the 7th and 8th worst classes
(edited by style.6173)
Ignoring that my class is the worst in the game (non-exp warrior) the MMR seems pretty solid. Players getting stuck in certain ranks means that the system is working.
Often there is posts here about ‘elo hell’. This is a meme from LoL and is fundamentally flawed logic going that you’re stuck in a rank by your RNG of teammates (of which is false). Based on the law of averages everyone will have equal games where they have to carry, get carried, or have to do just average. Reality is players in higher ranks have had just as many ‘bad teammates’ and won anyways because they’re better than you. With this the bad players are stuck in their respective division and we can finally be esports now. Good job, Anet.
You don’t get it. If you were right, people would reach a level and then have balanced matches with others at a similar skillset. The problem with the game is that it is still blowout games, win or lose, at whatever level you reach. That’s called a failure at matchmaking.
If you guys want PvE, there is a whole game mode for that sort of thing.
OK, this one was funny.
Druid: 3 at home.
Me (Ele) at mid with a necro: Leave home, help us take far.
Druid stays home the entire match.
.
.
.
We lose.
Druid: We had a warrior.
Me: That’s not why we lost.
Druid: I can’t hold home against 3.
Me: ….
This is perfect example of a ruby match. The druid is a exactly the problem. Most people in Ruby got there by grinding one way and cannot adapt to what is going on.
What it needs is a point nerf. I never understand why people think a PvE event on a PvP map is a good idea. It shouldn’t be worth more than 75-100 points.
@Yasi
The league needs to be grindable. If it is not, too many players will simply give up and leave. See the level of anger now? Imagine what it would be like if players were held in Amber for weeks while the “better” players moved through.
Then they’d be held for weeks more while the legendaries played through on alts, because it’s easier than waiting for matches. Then, they’d most likely give up and go away.
As I said in a previous post, there is a place for ultimate competition. That place is in tournaments. It is not in Main PvP. HOTM PvP is or should be for fun.
Definitely shouldn’t be grindable. Instead people who reach a level where they end up with fair and even matches. The problem is that doesn’t happen for anyone no matter the level. Even after you’ve reached your own peak, the match quality is still horrible
Sounds like you’re exactly where you’re supposed to be
IF the matches are even. That’s a big IF.
Evan has it exactly right.
Neither Evan nor you get it. It’s not about how high people go on the ladder. Everyone should peak at some point based on their skill level.
Once someone gets to their own individual peak, they should be getting balanced matches. The problem is that doesn’t happen. It is still a blowout whether you win or lose at whatever level you end on.
That’s why the season is a failure and why ANET needs to bring in some new talent to fix S3.
I thought last season was bad with the bunker mesmers and condi revs all over.
This season is even more boring with the rise of the bunker ele. Wasn’t this supposed to be a dps season? Boring
Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.
Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.
Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.
Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?
It makes it sound like you actually believe the matchmaking and league is working as intended. I’m scared for the future of PvP if you truly believe that.
1. Blowout matches. Watch the video of the guy who posted every match on the way to legend. I’d say 80% of the matches were blowouts, win or lose. That said, I understand that the inability of the balance team to do their job makes matchmaking difficult.
2. Ruby player quality. A lot of the matches have LOWER quality players in Ruby than in the lower divisions. That makes no sense.
Yes, it is fine if people reach a peak at some point in the season. That is perfectly acceptable as long as they receive good and even matches the rest of the way. That is not happening and is a big reason why the current season is a failure.
jesus effing christ, the scrapper hammer is literally the single best weapon skill set in the entire game and you’re complaining about how it doesn’t stack up vs Warrior or Guardian?
Sigh. I see this same mistake made by so many people. You are commenting based on one game mode but don’t specify which one. I’m guessing you mean PvP. In PvE, it is laughable to consider hammer the best weapon set in the entire game.
Can’t just say Mesmer is OP and needs to be nerfed
PvE? Seems to be in a good place
WvW? Seems fine
PvP? Condi Mesmer does need a nerf, but shatter needs a buff
There is a reason why good teams will run 2 rev. Good damage + good survivability + good mobility + good team support = super strong.
Thief is easily best carry in soloq if you have any idea how to rotate.
edit: I’d also rate warrior, dh and druid lower than thief in average games too.
Agreed with this.
Honestly, I think a lot of people here are just looking for validation towards their difficulties towards a class with a very different set of strengths and weaknesses.
You both are lol. Thief is not a solo carry. Maybe you both should let everyone in pvp know the secret if you feel otherwise. Can’t wait to see 2 thieves on a team since it is such a strong carry.
It sure seems like virtually every game has a score like that, win or lose.
Grats on legend.
What scared me is that win or lose, virtually every game was completely unbalanced score wise. Come on ANET.
I think ANET has just given up. Let’s be honest. S1 matchmaking was bad. Then they tried something new in the offseason. That was even worse. S2 they again try something new and failed even more.
When the matchmaking team is zero for three, at some point they just give up. They are probably at that point. Hopefully the new game designer sees the situation and brings in someone with new ideas.
I’m likely this change and MO taking over game design.
I’m really happy to see the changes coming.
About stability: Easiest fix is to to double the stacks in WvW. Let players test that. If it feels better, if it still feels low, increase the multiplier
Map: I really dislike the new BL map. I’d like to see it removed. The challenge with it is that ANET spend a lot of time on creative map design, new keep lords, PvE events, etc. What happened is that they forgot that at the core people go to WvW to zerg fight or roam fight and capture/defend towers. The fighting isn’t set up well on the map.
New Map: If you ever decide to create a new map, don’t get all gimmicky. Ensure a lot of open places for fights, make it a big triangle and make each side virtually a copy of the other. Add a stonemist type structure in the middle and you are good to go.
Reset: So excited to see reset being moved to Friday. That is a great move.
Rewards: Definitely need something here. PvE people have a legendary backpiece and will eventually have legendary armor. PvP people can create a legendary backpiece. Give WvW something legendary that can only be earned in WvW (real WvW, not EotM farming).
Fun fact: today i had a match, we ended up with 2 thieves on team (me and other guy). The team kept blaming us for not doing well etc.
Then we split during the match, me and thief were fighting 2v2 at far and our team had 3v2 fight at home (5th enemy was at mid). Our team at home managed to wipe. They had “proper” classes, were outnumbering enemy and yet they managed to wipe. CLEARLY sole reason why we lost that match is because of double thief…. el oh el.
More fun fact: You should provide more detail. Yes, your team sucked but for all we know, you and the other thief were fighting on an enemy capped point at far all game.
Please stop QQ-ing about condi mesmer. The profession really doesn’t have much going for it at the moment and it isn’t hard to counter. l2p or stop playing fotm builds with no condition cleanse. I don’t even know why I’m posting this because I know in two months Karl will send us another pink slip
I’m surprised I even have to say this to people 3 years into a game, but you do realize that for most classes it is a lot easier to apply conditions than it is to remove them.
No. Because team fights without team support is going to be boring with everyone dying fast. Longer team fights are more skillful and require you to make more decisions. Just simply killing the only real support build in this meta is not a smart choice.
No. Ele makes fights boring. Not to mention that any half way competent ele can hold 2 on a point for a really long time. It is broken.
The sad thing is that this is still an issue so far into the league.
ANET, wake up! Your matchmaking guy is clueless. Hire someone. People were patient during season 1. Then between seasons the matchmaking was even worse and then somehow matchmaking guy made season 2 even more horrible
In some ways, that is impressive in a very incompetent way.
Have you even read the posts in this thread?
Most of the posts indicate that this has nothing to do with bad matchmaking. The OP plays heal/support but doesn’t provide any heal/support for his team therefore making it to a 4v5. The resulting losing streak isn’t anets fault.
Sigh and how do you think he got placed into those matches? From superior matchmaking?
Why are premades of 4 facing 5 solo pugs?
I tried for a long time to give the matchmaking guy at ANET some time to fix things. It is taking too long. ANET, hire someone who knows how to do matchmaking please.
The sad thing is that this is still an issue so far into the league.
ANET, wake up! Your matchmaking guy is clueless. Hire someone. People were patient during season 1. Then between seasons the matchmaking was even worse and then somehow matchmaking guy made season 2 even more horrible
In some ways, that is impressive in a very incompetent way.
So I decided to try an alt account to climb the ladder. Without a doubt, Amber has the lowest quality players and Ruby is second lowest.
The challenge for you will be that top players don’t really queue into stronghold much. That means as you climb the ladder there you will face less and less available opponents.