Guild Wars 2

Um, if your traiting for warhorn, your going deep down a defensive tree.

There is no viable bunker or defensive based condition build for warrior (not enough self healing or mitigation in a warriors kit, and can’t apply many types of conditions). Meaning, your warhorn traited warrior dies a little bit slower, but actually has no viable way to inflict lethal damage (it probably won’t even be able to apply any pressure vs other bunker/condition built classes.

I wonder how many warriors giggled while reading these complaints…..

Probably smaller than i’m expecting since they don’t exist anymore

Fix is simple. Change it to burst CD reduction instead of burst damage increase.

Most people use burst skills for utility not damage (unless its eviscerate or kill shot, neither of which is super popular weapon types).

Logged in and played for the first time in about 3 months on my main (warrior).

I was the only warrior in every hot join spvp server i entered………. it was surreal. Eventually i swapped to my guardian cause people kept looking at me funny.

Nefandi.3051:

My shouts warrior

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLCI5Z78Z3c

I do not need to stick with the zerg, yet I also don’t expect to single hand groups. On the other hands, I can easily escape from groups not so big 5~7 and while in the zerg I normally can escape.

No offense but whats the point of linking some wvw stuff? That’s another step down in terms of skill compared to hot join spvp.

I logged in and played some hot joins for the first time in about 3 months. Back then warrior was still the worst class but today……… after about 2 hrs of playing i literally was the ONLY WARRIOR in the servers i joined. Jesus, even back in Jan, there were still plenty of warriors even though we were bad, now there are none in spvp.

Still did fine in hot joins where the average skill level is pretty low, but wasn’t able to pub stomp as hard as before. Not even gonna bother in tournament, i know my warrior will get its kitten handed to it. sigh…….

This game is not balanced around large numbers in pvp, it has to be small numbers.

Why? its simple, lack of dedicated healers.

Lalangamena.3694:

about warrior condition removal

1) mending, healing skill . 2 conditions every 25 seconds
2) shake it off, stun breaker and condition removal 25 seconds shout, traited to 20
3) signet of stamina, remove all conditions okittensec CD. traited 36
4) all other shouts when using runes of the soldier on armor.
5) restorative strength trait . using heal skill removes – cripple, chill, immobilize and weakness (four conditions on one skill!)
6) mobile strikes- trait: movement skills break immobilize
7) warhorn skill 4 (untraited) curing chill, cripple and immobilize
when traited both skills 4 and 5 also convert one condition to boon.

I am not sure that warrior lack condition removals. we have it OK.

I am whole hearty agree that endure pain skill (and its substitute trait defy pain) is in bad state and it is one of the problems that warriors have.
it should also make the warrior immune to damaging conditions for the duration of this skill, as it is a 60sec CD with no option to trait it.

the second issue warriors have is that we have to overtrait everything.
want to use banners effectively? lol three traits
want to use shouts effectively? three traits (with inspiring shouts)
want to use shield? another two traits?
want to be efficient with axes? lol three traits

no wonder everybody go GS as it requires only one single trait to use it effectively.

Uh… guessing you never played spvp much.

If you are running signet of stamina and shouts build, you will be unable to kill anything. Not even a pure glass cannon noob that doesn’t know how to dodge roll. Do not compared WvW pvp to anything in sPvP; WvW is pvp for dummies.

Conditions can be applied MUCH more frequently than they can be removed (this is true for all classes, even something like guardian that can easily remove conditions compared to a warrior) If you can’t put pressure on the enemy via DAMAGE, removing conditions doesn’t help: they will just reapply it way, way faster than the cd on your abilities to remove them.

Condition removal needs to be given via a passive that you can trait for. Something simple like “all burst skills remove a condition” or something would be a big step in the right direction (it would encourage burst usage as well)

There will always be a fine line when it comes to balancing melees vs ranged. Melees need to obtain an decent Time on Target to be effective against kiting. This is why warriors have problems: every class has EASY access to cripple, and alot of them have access to chill. Whats worse is its easy to layer these conditions with cover conditions making them harder to remove. Why do you think everyone in sPvP uses GS? its not cause of 100b. Its cause its the most mobile weapon (range snare and 3rd dodge are by far the most important skills the gs has) Its the only weapon that gives you a fighting chance to stay close to someone kiting you at range.

silvermember.8941:

Not only do PvE play the bills and sustain the game and can be monetize. PvPers tend to be less loyal and more likely to easily move from one thing to another faster than a PvEer will do. GW1 had everything PvPers would want, however that did not prevent it’s inevitable decline. So it makes little sense to dedicate a lot of resources to a game mode that is less monetize AND significantly less loyal.

Recently.1043:

I am pretty amazed at the new PvE thing though, it looks interesting. Not interesting enough to get me to log in after 3 months, but amazing nonetheless.

It begs the question why would you bother hanging around a forum of a game you don’t play?

I always found that amazing…in a kind of sad way why people do that.

Simple: Anet sends me e-mails regarding some big patch > I go to here or gw2guru to see what the big patches is about and hope for pvp change > see no changes (again) get upset and post in forums. I do this about once or twice a month since i quit back in January. I did the same with diablo 3 for a few months after i quit, hoping to see if they would eventually patch the game up to standards, but eventually stopped caring. The same will happen to this game soon as well.

PvE makes them money. PvP doesn’t (because they decided to not invest any time or resources into developing the potential market for it) PvE has way less longevity compared to PvP so it requires constant updates to stay relevant.

PvE and PvP have very distinctly separate player-bases. And one of these 2 is pretty much dead. Even if they tuned up PvP and added the standard features we would have expected, the large PvP population that already left won’t even know and/or care.

I am pretty amazed at the new PvE thing though, it looks interesting. Not interesting enough to get me to log in after 3 months, but amazing nonetheless.

This last patch reminds me alot of D3’s 1.03 patch. Everyone was hoping for nice fixes and buffs to classes that had trouble with inferno.

Instead blizzard just nerfed the kitten out of everything, including classes that were already weak. They then spent the next few patches basically just reverting the kittenstorm they created in that patch, but it took too long, and by then the game never recovered and almost everyone had already quit. Basically this feels the same (except this time, I had already quit this game a few months in advance instead of foolishly waiting a little bit longer in hopes of a “savior” patch like i did in d3)

Cogbyrn.7283:

It’s entirely possible that 50% inc damage taken with a 50% inc attack speed buff is too much negative to counter the positive. However, to insinuate that it completely isn’t worth it now because it’s assumed that the opponent will be able to attack the Warrior back for the full duration (and, as someone pointed out, that’s faulty math anyway) is irrational insanity.

It’ll probably be tweaked, but for the love of logic, take 3 seconds to think about when the skill is used.

While that’s true, there is also more situations than that. You are only accounting for 1v1 situations, which isn’t the case all the time. What about situations where its 1v2? or 2v2? Basically any situation where damage could be coming from multiple sources. You could still use frenzy in those situations and come out with a positive/even exchange in terms of +damage dealt/taken.

New frenzy is ALWAYS a negative exchange in terms of +damage dealt/taken outside of a 1v1 though.

I agree that the number will likely be adjusted (because I don’t believe anyone is at anet is actually stupid enough to think a +50% damage taken/received skill is actually remotely good) but it should be something hot-fixable, not something that needs a month or 2 of being broken before being fixed in some larger patch.

Old frenzy – positive usable effect in a variety of situations.
New frenzy – positive usable effect only in a 1on1 against an incapacitated opponent. and now at half efficacy as before.

People barely play this game let alone watch it…..

Frenzy was a required skill on every real pvp warrior build. If you don’t understand that, you haven’t played a warrior (which is dumb imo, you should try EVERY class in spvp since you only need to hit lvl 2 to reach the mists)

Every other class in the game has at least 2 viable builds imo (one may be stronger, than the other, but I’ve never felt like a class was absolutely pigeon-holed into 1 build before aside from warrior. And now that pigeon-holed build is bad now). For example the entire meditation line on guardian was nerfed to the ground, you could still bunker with a shouts build. Hell, even dps guardian builds aren’t complete trash (the way say… a warrior bunker or warrior condition build is) I could nerf the most OP ability in any other class, and there would still be a semi-viable fall-back build (lets pretend i nerfed every condition build on necro – they could still build power/wells) Once you nerf GS burst build for warrior, whats the fall back plan really? Condition bleeds (with no way to cover it?) Bunker build that has almost no sustain or condition removal? Dps build without the main dps burst ability? please explain???

This is why warriors are angry. It was bad enough being pigeon-holled into 1 build. Its now worse that they nerfed said build.

quickness nerf isn’t unexpected.

What was expected was some sort of compensating buff to at least draw even, considering warrior is the worst pvp class. (and if you disagree you don’t play spvp at all most likely)

The compensating buff was instead to banners (pve skills) and kick (a skill no one uses), which leads to an overall nerf in pvp for the warrior, which again, is the worst pvp class. No one gives 2 kittens what your warrior can do in PvE or even WvW (pvp for dummies basically). You have to balance the game around the assumption that the enemy your fighting against has some sort of brain, which only occurs in pvp.

I’m so confused. I thought they knew that warrior was strong in PvE and weak in PvP already…..

So what do they do? They buff warriors in PvE and nerf them in PvP…………….. so confused……..

Well the reason there isn’t say 2v2 or 3v3 death match arenas is pretty simple: lack of dedicated healer/support. Even if you go full support guardian, you can’t continue healing for that long.

Most fights in a 2v2 or 3v3 death match arena would probably end in less than 2 minutes. Same kitten happens in WoW arena for example. In 2s if you don’t take a healer, you have to win basically on your 1st or 2nd burst attempt; otherwise you insta-lose. And anything more than 2’s and you have to have a healer. Same logic applies, except there isn’t the option to bring a healer into your group in gw2; everyone is supposed to be self sufficient.

GW2 arena would just be a bunch of glass cannon burst dps builds facing off, seeing who has the fast reaction time (and it would be alot of thief teams, lets be honest)

Maybe if they add the monk class back in and accept that the trinity is needed, they would be able to add more pvp game modes as well.

Otherwise Team death match arenas would need to be like…. best of 5 or something, just to make it feel long enough.

People been complaining about sPvP since like October at least, almost nothing has changed. I gave it until Jan before i gave up; you’re best off just moving on.

If they had anything substantial planned/ready any time soon, they would be spreading info on it as much as possible just to give people hope and interested instead of vague BS.

ff14 beta this Monday…. hope its decent.

If they do have a big pvp update in this game (and i mean something significant, not the crap that came out in jan) i hope they like publicize it well. Forgot to check this site for over a month so i have no idea whats changed so far.

Hmmm haven’t played in about 1.5 months, came to check to see if anything new has changed.

Looks like the same old story sigh…..

Wonder how much my gems are worth now…. Converted ~300 gold into gems right before i quit, just for fun. Too lazy to update client though and check if PvP is still crappy though.

HS auto target gap closing is fine. Even the high damage is fine. Other classes have auto target gap closers too.

The problem is the ability to spam it. Every other class works off of cooldowns; thieves working off the initiative system breaks most of its skills. You have to make decisions like using it now, or saving it for later when its more likely not to be dodged out of for example. With HS, even if they dodge it you can follow up with the same move another 2-3 times. It grossly simplifies the class by removing most of the decision making process. If you have the ability to spam your best skill (at the cost of access to your other skills), you are gonna do it.

I doubt they ever remove the initiative system though (even though this is the main reason the thief class is horribly broken) since it would require a huge overhaul in the class’s design.

I said it before, and i’ll say it again, bad news is still better than no news (and this is more or less bad news haha). Glad you responded at least. Its too late to keep me interested personally, but at least maybe if you continually update us with information people like myself who are quitting will come back at some point down the line.

Stopped playing myself for close to a week now and don’t really feel any desire to come back.

I still check the forums though to see if there is any news (did the same with d3 even after i quit long ago). Probably stop checking these forums regularly as well since there’s basically no responses or news.

Havent played in a couple days, was this a stealth buff recently? There doesn’t appear to be any notes about this.

Kaleygh.1524:

It should be added, its only fair, since others can get power-toughness-vit, why not for condition builds as well ?

Because most physical damage builds need a combination of power/precision and crit damage to do good damage. Condition builds typically just need 1 stat for damage, which is condition damage. Their itemization path is much cleaner/simpler. Combine this with the fact that most condition builds typically trait much more tanky than physical dps builds (due to the placement of those traits on the trees), and condition builds are already more innately tanky than a physical dps class.

People that build power/tough/vit are tank/bunker builds typically and they deal kitten for damage. Physical dps classes that build with no precision do very little damage.

Any news is better than silence really, even bad news.

Even Jay Wilson, the killer of the diablo franchise came out a week ago and told everyone that they were gonna scrap what they were planning for PvP in d3 and start anew. They explained why they made the change etc etc. No one is happy to hear it, but at least he informed everyone where along the lines the update was at. Here, we have no idea because no one from anet seems to actually read these sPvP forums, and the ones that do don’t respond to any threads about issues/problems/requests/changes/hopes etc for spvp.

When you stop giving people news, they stop checking to see if there’s any news, and then there is a bigger chance they never come back. The same people are gonna quit regardless, but if you give regular status updates, those same people who quit might come back when they see positive changes.

Mobile 100b is bad idea, would look silly.

It just needs to be brought in line with similar abilities (pistol whip and blurred frenzy)
Shorten the channel duration/animation duration (which would lower the damage) and add a defensive effect during the channel. Yea sounds boring to make the skill similar, but its the most logical step if they change it.

They can’t make money off of sPvP so they really don’t seem to care that much.

I find myself logging in less and less now, even sPvP becomes boring now (and i quit pve awhile back as well) Very little incentive to play anymore with the sPvP basically left to rot away, don’t think i’ll last till the next update at this rate. They really dropped the ball on addressing sPvP, but in the end it was probably the correct financial decision for them; it would take alot more effort to go the esports route to make money, than it would be to go the micro-transaction pve route.

Hard to be positive when there is a severe lack of communication from anet regarding spvp. I think people had high hopes before the dec 14 patch came in that was many thought would fix alot of the problems, but it ended up being very minor.

In this day and age, you have a very small window to keep a loyal player-base especially for MMO’s. Once people get bored and leave, they usually don’t come back unless its a super casual type of game (which mmo’s are not).

It’s basically been a wall of silence here. Yes I know, winter vacation and whatnot, but even then it feels like the sPvP part of the game is extremely low priority for them.

Ranked is fine. What they need is a solo-queue ranked and a premade ranked (and the 2 types don’t end up fighting each other).

They can give some sort of bonuses for the premade ranked (since that would be the less popular format of the 2), maybe QP, or small gem reward or something i dunno.

The only way they gonna attract more people to sPvP is to 1.) make the game solo-queue friendly, and 2.) give people a reason to play sPvP (kitten stuff like ranks would help) A new game-type would help as well as capture the point is not solo-queue friendly, which is why pugs almost always lose to premades even if the collection of players in the pug are better at pvp.

They are very different and are unbalanced for different reasons.

Personally, if i had to choose, i’d say i enjoy the gw2 pvp style better (more action-y, faster fights, feels more like a fighting/action game), but dislike the game-type (capture the point) more. I wish there was also more active supporting in this game (not as much as wow though which causes most fights to be long kitten endurance matches)

The fact that every team guardian is required whereas most teams don’t even want a warrior should tell you all you need to know about the respective powers of these classes in pvp. Guardian is arguably the only required class to have in tpvp to be successful.

and wvw is not real pvp. you can roll whatever the hell you want in wvw and succeed.

Hiki.9310:

Recently.1043:

You can’t really compared mesmer condition to say…. necro condition or something, where their *primary build is condition build.

Necro could just as easily complain how they have no good power build compared to a mesmer.

There will always be one build that is at least slightly stronger than the rest. The problem is there is alot less versatility in builds compared to other games because there’s a much smaller pool of skills you can put on your skill bar, so it feels less diverse.

Mesmer condition build isn’t the best, but it isn’t horrible; at least it can apply a variety if different condition types which is better than some classes than can only apply say…. bleed + 1 cover condition.

When I made comparisons to other classes it was to show how there are guaranteed effects from their weapon skills in condition builds while the mesmer has unreliable to nonexistent condition application on their skill usage.

As to conditions being the primary build for necromancers that’s just one of the core build options that should be viable for all classes. Any class should be able to spec into dps, conditions or support without facing frustrating build issues.

Yea i get that mesmer condition application is random but thats just an aspect of the class; its a unique mechanic. Every class is gonna have a optimal build that puts them into one of the 3 main roles (power dps, condition dps, bunker), and the other builds aside from the optimal one will seem worse (obviously).

As i said before, when it comes to condition builds, mesmer isn’t that bad; other classes have it much worse when it comes to condition builds (like warrior and guardian for example), whereas other classes don’t even have optimal power builds.

Yes they could buff mesmer condition builds. But you can say the same thing for every other non-optimal build for every class. It will be a long, long time before every class can spec all 3 roles with equal efficiency and probably never be equal for condition builds as long as certain classes are restricted to 1 or 2 condition damage types.

I think clones do ~2% of your damage on basic attacks, so at low levels when you hit for like nothing, the damage you do gets rounded down to 0-1 range.

They aren’t meant to do much direct damage, and it would be pretty broken if they did.

You can’t really compared mesmer condition to say…. necro condition or something, where their primary build is condition build.

Necro could just as easily complain how they have no good power build compared to a mesmer.

There will always be one build that is at least slightly stronger than the rest. The problem is there is alot less versatility in builds compared to other games because there’s a much smaller pool of skills you can put on your skill bar, so it feels less diverse.

Mesmer condition build isn’t the best, but it isn’t horrible; at least it can apply a variety if different condition types which is better than some classes than can only apply say…. bleed + 1 cover condition.

This is why you leave the server the moment krylo ends.

Need much larger, 8v8 specific maps if they want to do tpvp with 8v8

Probably like 5 nodes instead of 3, and map size about 1.5 current size. And if you thought portal was needed now, it would be mandatory in 8v8.

Mesmer is a really bad match for warrior; you should lose more times than you win. I play some mesmer also and i usually have no problems against a warrior, and when im on my warrior i usually lose to mesmers too.

Most mesmers have 2 and a half stun breaks, sometimes 3 and a half. If they have all cooldowns up, its almost impossible to kill them before they hit you with a shatter combo. Half the time on my mesmer i can end the fight before the warrior can really even do anything.

Can’t win all the matchups, this game isn’t remotely balanced enough for that to happen.

1.) its wvw, condition removal is a much smaller problem here compared to spvp. mending is honestly enough.

2.) GS is the most mobile weapon in the game. SoR is enough swiftness. Spam gs 3 and 5 whenever its up to zoom across the map.

I can understand retaliation and stability, but do you really need visual cues for the others? Not really………

If this game ever reaches esports status, my guess is at tournaments they will force everyone to roll human or something. Size differential is too big of an advantage in this game since the UI is so simple and everything you do decision-wise in pvp i based off of visual cues.

I gotta disagree with the rezing, its part of the game currently. To remove it, they would have to drastically increase every classes base survival (like glass cannons would need 25k hp minimum, and tanks, 35k) otherwise there would be absolutely no reason not to run 5x full glass cannons (the biggest difficulty for a glass cannon is finishing someone when they are downed really)

Also for the map pool, i’m indifferent on it. I feel like krylo requires better team coordination at least to effectively use the treb; it would hurt pugs more if that was say, the first map. Also if capricorn ever got in the rotation………….. ewww

This is probably the easiest glass cannon you could possibly fight…….

Guardian is easily the weakest class in terms of mobility, and weakest class when it comes to chasing (cripple/immobilize skills as well as gap closers)

Both those builds are both similar and close to standard for bunker builds

Hammer shines more in sPvP because the 3,4,5 skills help you maintain point control and/or neutralize/cap the point. Otherwise i think its way too immobile. The symbol traits are better in situations where you want to stand in a small area like sPvP also; wvw is too mobile/zergy to really take advantage of that imo. I’d use something like the first build but swap to a GS, and trait for 2h weap reduction on cd, and create shield of absorb when rez (very useful)

Akumetsu.8591:

heart seeker is not our best ability. backstab is in my build. hs is jus ta gap closer for me and a way to gain stealth through my smoke field from my 5 from my pistol offhand.

Thanks for completely missing the point and/or having poor reading comprehension.

Let me put it this way. You can think of this game and the decisions you should make, much like a flowchart. The thief flowchart however, its much, much simpler because there won’t be divergence points in the flowchart that check for cooldowns like every other class, so the optimal decision will often loop around 1 skill.

You probably still won’t understand though since you seem to read posts to try to pick out mistakes and make yourself sound smarter, rather than read posts to understand the entirety of the argument being made.

Marks are huge…… they cover basically the entire point. You can easily dodge roll and still end up inside the mark circle at the end of the roll lol. They are unblockable too >_>. At least any necro that isn’t half kitten has that mark trait.

I’m curious if this is a bug or just an incorrect tooltip.

According to Banner of Tactics, when you pick it up (and it replaces your 1-5 skills), the #2 skill “Compassionate Banner” does not apply the correct amount of healing.

For example, at my current healing power (1288 heal power) it heals me for 947 life on use. The tool tip says it should be 4,172 health on use though. This is obviously a very large difference.

Is the tooltip wrong? Or is the skill bugged and should be healing for more than it currently is?

I actually really want a clarification if banner of tactics #2 is bugged or its just tooltip error.

I think if it could heal for even half the amount it currently states, this could very well be viable. (you would have to get used to picking up/dropping your banner, which is something i just trained myself to do the last 2 hrs lol)

Edit: scratch that it does heal, but it heals way less than stated. it says it should heal 4,172 for me with my current healing power, but it only heals 947 instead. without my cleric amulet it was like 684. (so it scales a bit on healing power).

Hmmmm gotta say i’m pleasantly surprised, its not as bad as i thought. Only played it in pubs so far but i see some potential.

I ran a few variations. went 0/0/30/30/10 instead
Picked up bladed armor for retaliation, and decrease signet cd 20%
mending/balance stance/sig of stamina/banner of tactics/signet of rage
Cleric amulet

First, i gotta say this feels alot closer to bunker ele than a bunker guardian in play style.
Bunker ele can get basically full uptime vigor/regen which is basically what i went for. I went 4 water + 2 monk for an extra 20% boon duration. My goal was to get as close to 100% vigor uptime as possible while affecting my regen uptime, as well as retaliation uptime (bladed armor). My goal is to play this like a bunker ele and have high boon uptime while buying time with dodge rolls to let my regen keep ticking.

Couple things i noted: regen uptime is ridiculous. I was gonna slot in for 20% regen duration instead of the 4 set water bonus (chance for condition removal), but its not needed. Alot of the time i have 30-40 sec of regen duration. Swiftness duration is literally perma, often 2mins+ on it. I added signet reduction time because basically i see absolutely no way to play this as a bunker without signet of stamina. The passive on it is completely wiped out by vigor (they don’t stack, and vigor is stronger) which sucks, but the active is too vital to drop in a bunker. I use mending too, since that isn’t enough condition removal on its own.

Trying to convert vuln into protection is gimmicky imo, too difficult and to reliant on what your opponent does. Most of the time you will be converting bleeds and cripples since that’s the most commonly applied condition.

Banner of tactics seems like the only banner worth using. It gives even more boon duration which was what i was going for, and you can stack even more regen while you are idle. With banner on ground and the current boon duration, it will additively stack up, and you can pick it up and use #2 to accelerate the stacking process. Just standing near it doing nothing for the full duration, by the time the banner ends you will have ~35-40 seconds remaining on regen; its higher if u activate #2 while holding it repeatedly.

Weaknesses of the build: well its still pretty weak to necro. I basically can’t do anything against a necro heh…. damage too low to pressure and after i remove the first wave of marks, the 2nd wave will chip me down. Immobilize is such a pain as well Immobilize absolutely KILLS this build as well, since it stops dodging. If you get stuck in mace/shield and don’t have something to remove immobilize you are in big trouble.

Compared to ele which i felt runs similarly, warrior doesn’t have any mini-heals to sustain between heal skills. For sigil i went Leeching + energy on both sets, leeching is the only way to get a bit of a heal, and this build has no crit so can’t use blood sigil. Heals for i think ~975 on a hit which is better than nothing i guess.

There’s some potential here. I don’t think its tournament viable yet with how inefficient the trait trees are though. Its definitely better than a shout-heal attempt though.

Gonna try this out tonight and see how it goes. Been playing nothing but bunker guardian the last 2 weeks so this will be an interesting comparison.