The worst thing about the new scoring system is the ability to calculate how many hours you need to lead another server to get back into the lead on the VP.
Currently on AG/ROF we are 12 point behind AM/DZ – assuming we (AG/ROF) win a skirmish and they come second we need 24 hours like this to get even VP with them. Yes – a day and a half into this matchup we are already up to a whole day behind.
It’s honestly depressing and demoralising. I am really struggling to see why I should even bother for the rest of the week.
Add to that the fact we are red and don’t have bloodlust without capping someone elses (and who really wants to do that?) we don’t even get the benefit of added ppk.
Exactly the same thing with previous score design, except it was using higher numbers.
You think people kept fighting on thursday when they where 50K behind?
So I fail to see how this can be the worst thing about the new scoring. Especially since you didnt mention what could really be related to what you said – the inability to win even if the server scores 3 point every skirmish. At some point in the matchup and when one server is on top, it will win no matter what because 1 point on loss is guaranteed. With the previous PPT system, you could theoretically fight them to 0 PPT (which would probably also mean very high PPT for your server). But granted that was unlikely to happen when being the underdog.
Either way the system works best when points are being traded between the 3 servers. Which requires balanced server matchups. The new scoring system does exactly nothing to help with that. It’s just a new scoring system.
With the new 2-hour skirmish structure, we can also rotate the host for the borderland map and simply reset the map after skirmish ends.
The entire point of skirmishes vs EoTM is not to reset anything.
To reiterate whats been said before: To dynamically scale the number of maps based on population – because kitten if 3 borders are even enough in T1 prime – it requires all maps to have a fair 3-way EB design.
Unless you specify PvE, PvP or WvW then the answer will always be different.
In PvE for example, duration or damage is pretty irrelevant – whether you hit static dumb boss for 100 damage over 10s or 1000 damage over 1s on a 10s cooldown… it’s the same thing.
In WvW, everything change since it heavily depend on the opposition you meet and the length of combat. Same thing for PvP. Sometimes you meet bunker classes with lots of instant cleanses, you want high condi damage against those but duration is more or less irrelevant until they have no cleanses left. Against classes with less cleansing and high dps/evasive moves you want tons of duration in order to damage them while they run away.
Either way condi duration gear is generally not needed unless you min/max a glass cannon with all damage to condis. I run rabid/celestial on my p/p engineer and I reach 98% burning duration (I cry for those missing 2% every time I look at it).
We see a large variety of races now thanks to not being locked behind traits. With this idea, GW2 would be just meta builds that also includes race.
Instead, we can enjoy the rich lore of them rather than hearing someone go “hahaha you are an engineer on a sylvari? You are supposed to be Charr, gtfo and reroll”.
Expect low populations no matter the server (US prime is EU night), +300 ping at least. Dont join one of the national servers unless you speak French, German or Spanish. On international servers its English as primary so most Americans should understand. Not sure how many night gulds are left really… the skirmish system has now taken the fangs out of nightcapping. But T1 servers will probably have a few dozen people running.
I am afraid this will cause a lot of burnout with no reward. Now players will be constantly grinding ppt throughout the week for victory points, but problem is there is no reward for it, it will just cause burnout because whats the point.
Which is different from just plain PPT how exactly?
And tbh, I see active points matter much more now than before (it will be what, like a third of the final score for a skirmish?). So its not just PPT you need to win. Still not sure how good that is though. Dont want to discourage fighting.
Trapper runes have little to do with a Ghost thief.
The runes provide 2 seconds of stealth on a 30 second cooldown. How the heck is that OP?
If you trait for respite and mastery you can get 4 seconds stealth on a 24 second cooldown.
The issue is NOT TRAPPERS runes. It is stealth stacking via DP using BP and HS.
A much more potent ghost thief would use Hide In shadows , traps with respite and Perplexity runes. They can maintain permanent stealth with DP. They can also use Torment or Balthzar again adding conditions every 15 seconds just by healing.
Now I can make a Ghost thief work using Perpexity runes, Tormenting runes , Balthazar runes, Trapper runes but can not make it work using s/d or p/p or SB or s/p. Wh ys ithat if the issue trapper runes?
^This
Removing trapper runes doesn’t get rid of the ghost thief, it’s pointless to debate that any further. The argument now is whether or not ghost thief should be allowed to exist.
I don’t personally care either way. The only time they become a threat is when they run in groups of 3 or more and even then they are a lot less of a threat than 3 power thieves coordinating their bursts.
Last I checked there was no cooldown, did they nerf that and no one updated the wiki?
There are some quite annoying things in WvWers behavior I’ve noticed since I started playing WvW. First it was pure, unrelenting hatred towards GvG players, which drove them out of WvW to an extent I can barely find one if I want to.
Stop your outrage, it’s the HoT “balance” that killed GvG – GvG players aren’t that fragile.
Not unless HoT is so unbalanced it can literally warp time. The GvG scene was “dead” long before HoT released.
We should be happy about this, pot stirring on anets part. It may result in the exact same thing, that they can put minor changes into make drastic impacts (scarily both good and bad) but I’ll remain optimistic because they are ‘thinking’ about how to do things. And that’s the start people have wanted for many years.
Especially considering we can vote out things that don’t work.
My charr friend always told me asura’s ears make a nice crunchy meal. Time to find out
Charr fur make nice hats too. Tell your friend that when Black Citadel falls he is welcome on the Charr farm. Shavings happen once a month. Its an event for all Asurans to watch.
Well if you see any steam creatures being built down there, then you should know that the Grand High Sovereign offer no pardon to those that doesnt surrender. We have already conquered Tyria. You just dont know it yet.
I play scrapper and mesmer in spvp. Are you sure that rolling a condi chrono mesmer is so simple ? playing scrapper is quite trival … it is warrior 2.0 a melee weapon with a block … a range weapon (eg ) and some simple combos … nothing similar to old condition engineer.
Mesmer mechanic is much more difficult to play imho becouse for every thing you do you have to pay attention at your clones : heals come for clones, condi removal comes for clones and damage comes for clones . If you shatter when your clones are not at the right position you lose all your damage , even with condition chronomancer. If you waste your mobility skills you are easy to take down. I played engi since 2012, i really loved P/P engi but now scrapper is much stronger but also boring, so i switched to something different. I can assure you that at begin , kill someone of the same level in 1 vs 1 with mesmer is not easy at all. When you learn it … ok , it is really a strong strong class… but it is not immediate like scrapper or warrior or other classes. try it and tell me if i am wrong
SPvP is not WvW. Without the restriction of standing on a 3×3m point barely large enough to dodge through a condi mesmer can outplay everything.
Have you also compared it with other 1200 range skills? maybe its the revs hammer #1 skill thats bugged.
Lol you notice now? This was literally brought up on HoT release due to major balance issues in WvW. Anet has done nothing to fix it. We have also noted the ~1800 range longbow ranger for 4 years and Anet has done nothing.
Scrapper is Solid, but it’s not cheese. If we have a cheese it’d be like Full Dire with P/P and FT, Kinetic Battery to double up on that toolbelt skill, load up burning after draining their condi clears with some ‘light’ condi’s then blast them and sneak gyro… something like that.
Never ever seen anything remotely similar to that and I fight T1 cheese gankers on a daily basis with my own p/p scrapper (rabid/celestial, not dire lol). 95% of scrappers will be power hammer which can be pretty darn annoying. I have seen 4 people give chase to 1 scrapper and failing to kill him because its all blockreflectblockevadestealthblockblockreflectblock…
If OP wants true cheese then condi mesmer or condi thief is the proper things to look into, yes.
I just did the calculation to verify in the current matchup YB, SBI and SOS because imho this is the matchup that is the most imbalanced atm in NA and the imbalance grows, in current counting system YB has 42% of the points, SBI has 30% and SoS has 28%
in new system YB has 48% of the points, SBI has 27% and SoS 25%.
That’s not going to be entirerly accurate since you’d have to break current WvW down in 2h slices and see who scored highest – which isnt necessarily who has the highest PPT at any given time. Your calculation assumes exact ratio all the time.
For servers that score past each other all the time (ie narrow spikey score chart) then they will trade that 3 and 2 pointer.
On the contrary, kill score will be drastically increased in relevance. If a guild group can reliably and efficiently murder zerglings, it can create score swings in the skirmish that would otherwise be irrelevant in the current state of WvW.
Which isnt good at all. All that kills having drastically increased relevance means is that people will PPT and avoid fights whenever possible. Oh did you die? Its your fault we lost, gtfo out of WvW!
The zergs become stronger and the outnumbered become weaker, well played if you think thats a good thing. Think guilds can kill zergs? Hahaha… port to another map and keep the train going!
As it is now, people have nothing to loose trying to fight.
Well at least it will be interesting to see if this truly changes anything. I honestly dont think it will. Short term it do allow servers to catch up, but long term its probably the exact same results as with current scoring. In fact, on its own this will make off hour coverage (ie nightcapping) easier for strong servers – with the current system, underdogs can still get a PPT stalemate, or close to it. With skirmishes, theres always a clear winner and a clear looser no matter how balanced the scores was.
Anet do what ever they consider good for us, but let me ask:
Did you sent staff to the WvW world to check the number of players playing? Did you exclude the PvE players before linking servers?
that is the question, did you? Seems like you didnt. If you did, you wont link FSP with 2 servers.
Atm, FSP has 100+ q to EBG, 30 aprox to each BL, that is how SFR looks year ago, when the players still playing WvW… You just made FSP unbalanced, and more imbalanced population.
Fun fact: If deso hadnt been in the matchup but rather someone with tons of peeps (like say the french), FSP would probably have come dead last. We have also had a nearly uncontested red border (ie DBL) for two weeks, being about +40ish in “free” PPT above the rest. When all the guilds (new and old) are out in force you wont see a single open border tag above 10 people, because there is no room on the borders. GG trying to fight a 50 man with 10 peeps because 2 guilds are taking turns scrimming and another is AFK in spawn – and you still got a 20 man queue.
I have said it before in other threads… Doesn’t your machine and internet make a difference? I know that not everyone can afford it but my little gaming laptop doesn’t suffer this lag people speak of. Not even with two enemy zergs in the same spot. Am I just lucky?
Simple answer: Yes. Yes you are.
It doesnt matter whether you play on a 16 core/gtx1080/500mbps machine or a single core potato with a post-it smileyface as GPU and a cup with a string as internet, when the skill queue of an instance get swamped it chokes and cant send requests back to clients fast enough. Ie skills keep blinking even when you dont lag otherwise.
Two zergs fighting is generally not enough to cause it, try three full 80 man borderblobs fighting at once.
even thought it screwed all the PVE people (which tbh have the most chances to create a legendary anyway).
(ignoring the fact that probably 80% of hardcore WvWers have at least one legendary, they are more common than normal skins)
But true, I was being sarcastic. Because its still how the game works. Everything takes time and in order to get shiny stuff, you sometimes have to do things you dont normally do.
I get my clovers through PVP tracks but I happen to love PVP. Most players here play strictly PVE, they hate PVP and they don’t have a solid method of obtaining clovers. This is simply not fair for them, something must change.
Uh… Thats how the entire game work. In this case you even got it it good since there are multiple methods to get clovers.
For example, I want Ad Infinitum. But I dont want to do fractals. I only want to WvW. What do I do?!?! Something must change, this isnt fair.
Or I could just do fractals but I dooooont waaaaaannnnnaaaaaaa.
EB is always open.
A side’s BL is only open (can be entered and counts for score), if that side has 125+ player in WvW or in queue.
This has been suggested before and it only works on another design principle than current WvW. With your method, a border would quickly be crowded by one side while it doesnt really have anything to fight. IE it would lead to zerg vs small parties. With 3 borders, the same situation spread people out and allow for backcaps/small scale fights on other borders.
The method of dynamically scaling instances would only work if all borders where true 3-way designed, just like EB and EoTM, and activated based on all player counts. No more homeborders or some kittenty hybrid like DBL. Its not a bad idea – I like it and have suggested this exact thing in the past. But it doesnt work to bandaid over current WvW.
And this is exactly why the concept of tiers for matchmaking should be removed because kitten if anyone can balance it. Someone will always be too weak or too strong for where people think they are “supposed” to be, it doesnt matter if you have 2 tiers or 20 tiers.
Dailies + WvW/PvP reward tracks made the need to RNG clovers obsolete. I have 100+ clovers in my bank and didnt toss a single thing in the forge. I you spent gold for so many failed attempts.. ouch.
Another story, I was struggling with a very good herald (again, near home garri), an ally was standing and watching me slowly losing, I threw Elixir S and asked if he can help me, I got an answer ’it’s a duel’.
Well the question is… was it? Because if it was then asking for help just because you are loosing is pretty much the most cowardly thing you can do. Sure, most people wont care and will happily go 2v1 (or more commonly, 10v1 and flee if its less than 3v1) but some will let you deal with it. Even a spontanous random duel is still a duel to those people, you should never rely on assistance even if a 50 man zerg is next to you.
Unless you are also throwing away bloodstone/empyrial/dragonite I seriously fail to see how you have a need to toss out obsidian. My inventory is always kittening overflowing with that kitten so I have to craft bricks/ingots/star to get it away.
Let me be the jerk saying that your night times are most likely someone elses day times.
You are only a jerk if you are on EU servers as that is literally impossible, lol.
But this particular idea is still fail to try to “fix” it. There are plenty of other ways to reduce the impact of low pop PPT that doesnt compromise playability.
I’m just so sick of wasting money and time on siege and upgrading bay and hills only to wake up and it was taken by about 10 people.
10 people capping a keep is primetime material, lol.
The idea is silly. Undefended objectives always need to be cappable by few players as that is ecaxtly what makes WvW work. If undefended objectives was “almost impossible” to cap by anything short of a zerg, no one would bother with less populated zones. Havoc, roamers, all gone. No one can do anything unless someone snaps their finger and a zerg magically appear. WvW would break down as a mode.
If I keep running and it turns out it’s not actually a duel and I didn’t help my teammate then I get complains again.
Then tell them kitten you.
Anyone running outside a zerg with a build/class that cant 1v1 yet get into that 1v1 without running away has themselves to blaim. Could they die anyway? Sure. That’s how the game is played. If it was a good fight nothing else matter.
Simple thing to look for – if people are seemingly in a 1v1 fight yet at the same time your ally is running toward you like a scared rabbit then maybe you just could help him.
Yes because things like popping overload air every 5s or so is not at all OP. Or being able to stomp while invoulnerable. I mean its not like any ele even use that kitten in any WvW build, hahaha.
That would be so neat. I have been glancing at EVE for years thinking about giving it a go, but the subscription and the fact I can always fall back on GW2 has kept me from looking further.
I’ve always wondered why they didnt have f2p for “trash” ships you want to populate the world (fighters, bombers, small freighters/miners, etc) while requiring subscription for the larger and more advanced ships. It would have been an entirely logical division of player “class” within the game world while still keeping it playable for everyone.
Most games are a 20-30 minute match, then it repeats. WvW can be hours of continous fighting.
Fondest memory is still the early days when we had 4+ hour battles in garrison. No other maps, no running around other places, just hours upon hours of 3 entire servers fighting over the same objective because defenders kept bannering the lord, lol.
Just because Deus Ex uses even more awful monetization models does not mean I need to enjoy GW2s business model. I think GW2 would be better off with subscription, too.
Of course, though it would be 1 subscription per account so with your 30 accounts you’d have to pay $400+ a month to play.
It really doesnt matter whether you enjoy it or not, you can be 100% sure that if GW2 was subscription based we would still have the exact same gemshop and the exact same $50 HoT. In fact the only difference would be that GW2 vanilla isnt free, so we’d probably have about 1/50th the population. Better?
Buy to play and free to play turned out to be a failure to me. It might make more profit (does it? not sure) for the companies, but the games show it everywhere. Just look at GW2, 80%+ of all new cosmetics appear in the gemshop only.
Yes and Deus Ex want you to pay for cosmetics in singleplayer and it’s only available in the session you unlock it in, you better not want a new game. GW2 isnt bad at all there. There 3000+ skins in the game. A few more in the gemshop is irrelevant, there are tons free skins in the game – most of them better looking than the gemshop ones anyway. And you can still convert gold→gems, ie time spent to get those gemshop items. Time spent means a populated game, which means more people and some of those will probably buy gems. And the longer people stay in the game the more likely they also are to buy gems in the future. That’s how it work.
I prefer that than basicly being extorted for money up front or they shut down access to the game. But hey look at the bright side – at least subscription isnt season passes where you may or may not get anything at all. Modern gaming is starting to look like a kittening kickstarter campaign.
Where I disagree with some people is when they say dbl is unsuitable for “wvw play”, because invariably what they mean is that the alpine borderland solution isn’t the most optimal solution there, but that’s a good thing! I know that the alpine solution is comfortable and widely understood and has the weight of nostalgia behind it, but that’s not enough in the long term for a lot of people. Variety and options are needed.
Well you see the problem here is that you’re not supposed to have that kind of variety and options in the same game mode. We have sPvP, thats an option for those wanting small scale PvP. We have EoTM, thats variety under a different set of rules than WvW.
WvW is supposed to follow the same basic rules. EB is the gold standard – keeps protected by towers (and towers protected by the keeps). ABL trim down the scale and split the map into a defender area (garri+its two towers) and attacker area (keeps+their single tower) but it still follows the exact same mantra of connected objectives. That thin red thread that make you see the logic of the design.
DBL… well we dont even know wtf kind of rules it follows because it sure isnt WvW. None of the objectives are connected and its like a kitten 3-way split that doesnt give defenders any advantage.
How about… uh, you know, play the actual GW2 endgame, WvW and sPvP?
I wish I was young and narrowminded again, would have saved soooooo many pointless gaming hours if I had thought things like “well I played Battlefield 4 singleplayer, there is nothing left to do!”
Honestly I’ll never play a paid subscription type of game, it just makes the game feel like work to me.
Thats pretty funny given f2p games are the most grindy games cause they have to be to get you to buy stuff from them and are therefore the games most like ‘work’.
I think he means (though I could be wrong) that sub games feel like work because you feel obligated to play constantly, even if you don’t want to, because you’re sinking actual cash into the game every month. It’s basically a feeling that you have to get your money’s worth in play time.
Yeah, you arent allowed pauses or you will be kittening your money away. It really wouldnt be so bad if it was a very minor cost, but we’re looking at $150+ a year with the standard MMO pricing. People rather stop playing and move somewhere else. Then consider if you want to play several MMOs and they all cost monthly. WoW took the baseline and there is pretty much no other room for subscription games.
Why have we been linked with a T1 server? They don’t need a guest server (T1 and T2) – and we would not be in T1 or T2! Most of our wvw players havent been in wvw since Friday night.
WSR is a roaming server with small group fights, that is the reason we stay there until the end. And what do we have now? Exactly what we never wanted … blob fights and queues on every map … no thanks.
All what we want is FUN! After this linking we lost it.
Fun is for us:
- roaming (take keeps, tower and camps – ppt),
- small scale fights with guild groups
Our 2 previous linkings with RoF (over a duration of 4 months) has been good, we were a great team – unfortunately we did not have enough numbers together to win one MU.
Please, Anet: Relink us as soon as possible, not in 2 months. Give us a place / home in a low tier.
Hey I dont think you’d find many objecting to that from FSP either. The queues has been… really bad. Especially since DBL has done exactly what many of us said it would do – shift WvW from 4 maps to 3 maps. That was great in theory, under the assumption that the server struggled to fill 3 borders, making it easy to focus on 2 (with a little expected queues). This link wrecked that though. Now we swamp 2 maps – I think I saw a 60 man queue to a border and has enough people spilling over to DBL to have a zerg fighting exactly 0 enemies.
Not sure the title of “Baguette Slayers” is worth the waiting times just to play.
But Anet got the metrics, they could post them to prove its balanced.
I have a good idea delet all servers creat new ones with new names. Creat a little bit less server then before (count out how many needed) and with no DE or other language segregation ( English could be the main everywhere).Very important dont let ppl transfer only onec a half year (or less).
Thats it porblem solved. I realy cant see any other good solution of this sitautaion, because they let out wvw our hand wayback.
This is a solution only under the assumption that no one has friends, no one has server pride and that everybody is a robot that plays the exact same times everyday until the end of time because even one person getting disgruntled and leaving would make your perfectly weighted new servers just as unbalanced as current servers.
it’s also useless for really small guilds because we can’t get one, be glad you have a GH….
Common complaint that Anet wont fix, so either get one or dont. FYI you can claim a guildhall with 4 people, probably 3 if its PvE masters. the cost to upgrade stuff however… Well its only like 1000 gold a person for small guilds.
Regarding the arena, it run on PvE (WvW) rules afaik.
