Guild Wars 2

Crinn.7864:

Ryou.2398:

Crinn.7864:

Well this thread is insulting to the extreme.

Some of us enjoy playing the optimization game. I don’t understand this mentality that having good performance in a game makes you a bad person.

I have not seen one person imply that.

Then you’ve missed all the passive aggressive hate being thrown towards people that “obsess over stats”

If you feel insulted by general comments that were not directed specifically at you, then you are the one applying those comments to yourself. No one else did it to YOU.

If you enjoy optimization and don’t feel that you obsess over stats, then clearly those comments are NOT about you.

Jericento.3165:

I understand that Anet needs to create demanding, challenging end-game content that will appeal to the die-hard-forever set; but with that comes a need to mediate their own system.

Do they need to? I don’t agree. Before Raids were added, it looked like GW2 was doing fine.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Again, I don’t know what Elemental Sprites have to do with (one part of) the Hungry Cat ‘quest’. That is an example of having to ask another player to help you fulfill the ‘quest’.

Pretty sure we weren’t providing examples of content you didn’t have to ask for help with. =/

My point was that they should have left a rift that auto-opens at Gillscale Pond and dumps you in the pond so you can start the content. You said:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Why? One has/had to ask, after the first few days, anyway, someone to summon the cat to charm from the Witch’s Outfit. Both are ‘extra’ content.

I think it would be difficult to make the cat from the Witch’s Outfit more available. And I don’t agree with adding that cat to the hungry cats collection for that reason.

Mishoo.5918:

Greyraven.4258:

…
No one seems to want to have fun anymore…. .

Not really true. Some save the fun for the end.
He who laughs last, laughs best.

Save fun for the end of what?

Ryou.2398:

Djinn.9245:

Ryou.2398:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ryou.2398:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ryou.2398:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ryou.2398:

I could not agree more, I think it has more to do with ego and the meta community acting like it has to go through them first to be acceptable.

There’s no such thing as a “meta community” and absolutely no one who has publishes data on “best DPS” builds insists that there’s only one way to play.

That’s like accusing the “fun police” of being against DPS meters — different people enjoy the game in different ways. This game makes it easy to have fun in dungeons and fractals and especially open world without worrying much about having optimized builds, so if you don’t care to research & won’t use someone else’s build, then why worry if anyone else is doing so?

I hope your being sarcastic because there is a huge meta community and multiple websites for gw2 meta, I am not accusing anyone im stating facts and experience from multiple mmorpg experiences including this ones.

You claimed that there’s some group that is dictating what other people should play — there isn’t. You claimed that it’s about ego — it’s not, it’s about different ways of approaching the game.

Certainly there are people who publish results of their attempts to eke out the best numbers possible and certainly there are people who will follow in their footsteps. And certainly there are people who will /kick anyone who seems to be marching to the beat of a different drummer.

But that’s nothing close to any sort of community organized around the idea of insisting on what others should do. That’s just human beings exhibiting human nature — some like to push the limits of their abilities, some like to push other people around.

And again, what possible difference does it make that such people exist if you want to just play the game to have fun? Nothing is stopping you from any content, with the possible exception of raids … and that’s only because raids are challenging enough for 10 good players that the choice of build/comp can matter.

The original post asks, “does anyone just have fun anymore?” To answer that question, we don’t need to pay any attention at all to “the meta” because the answer is “yes, people are having fun exactly the same way they had it at launch, doing whatever they like in the game.”

Umm yes there is lol I certainly do not need your validation neither, I never claimed anyone is stopping me from doing content you sure make tons of assumptions about me when I never said any of those things, and your sure going out of your way to justify something you do not think exists.

Stop trying to be so condescending.

I’m sorry that you think that someone disagreeing with you is “condescending.” I’m also sorry that you can’t separate my reply to you about your bold claims & my separate point addressing the OP’s question.

No you where responding to me, if you are responding to the ops question you make a separate post and reply to them, you where being condescending and you know it, I am far from new on the internet and especially forums.

Sorry, but I didn’t see anything “condescending” in his post, maybe you can quote the part you object to.

And I agree with him that unless you are talking ONLY about raids, there generally isn’t anyone telling you how to play unless you pay attention to people in chat and who gives those people weight in a video game?

There are several different sites that parse character numbers and offer opinions on what builds are most effective at different playstyles. But they are run by different people (not one central voice) and they don’t contact you in-game to tell you that you have to use their site. It is completely voluntary to go to these sites and many people don’t even know they exist.

And I never specified if it was outside of raids only you assumed I did, but I’m also talking about fractals not just raids.

No, I didn’t assume anything. I specifically stated unless you are talking about raids. And perhaps some people want meta in fractals but by no means is it everyone.

Ryou.2398:

You can agree all you want but it does not Trump my experience with the game. I see tons telling about meta battle read map chat. For example someone will ask advice and people argue all the time because it is the meta and tell them that their build won’t be able to do endgame or tell them defensive stats are useless. Same goes for guilds and forums.

As I said, sure people talk about meta in chat. But that is individuals, not a cohesive “community”. There are also people in chat that say you don’t need meta unless you are raiding.

And again, it’s video game chat… O.o

Ryou.2398:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ryou.2398:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ryou.2398:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ryou.2398:

I could not agree more, I think it has more to do with ego and the meta community acting like it has to go through them first to be acceptable.

There’s no such thing as a “meta community” and absolutely no one who has publishes data on “best DPS” builds insists that there’s only one way to play.

That’s like accusing the “fun police” of being against DPS meters — different people enjoy the game in different ways. This game makes it easy to have fun in dungeons and fractals and especially open world without worrying much about having optimized builds, so if you don’t care to research & won’t use someone else’s build, then why worry if anyone else is doing so?

I hope your being sarcastic because there is a huge meta community and multiple websites for gw2 meta, I am not accusing anyone im stating facts and experience from multiple mmorpg experiences including this ones.

You claimed that there’s some group that is dictating what other people should play — there isn’t. You claimed that it’s about ego — it’s not, it’s about different ways of approaching the game.

Certainly there are people who publish results of their attempts to eke out the best numbers possible and certainly there are people who will follow in their footsteps. And certainly there are people who will /kick anyone who seems to be marching to the beat of a different drummer.

But that’s nothing close to any sort of community organized around the idea of insisting on what others should do. That’s just human beings exhibiting human nature — some like to push the limits of their abilities, some like to push other people around.

And again, what possible difference does it make that such people exist if you want to just play the game to have fun? Nothing is stopping you from any content, with the possible exception of raids … and that’s only because raids are challenging enough for 10 good players that the choice of build/comp can matter.

The original post asks, “does anyone just have fun anymore?” To answer that question, we don’t need to pay any attention at all to “the meta” because the answer is “yes, people are having fun exactly the same way they had it at launch, doing whatever they like in the game.”

Umm yes there is lol I certainly do not need your validation neither, I never claimed anyone is stopping me from doing content you sure make tons of assumptions about me when I never said any of those things, and your sure going out of your way to justify something you do not think exists.

Stop trying to be so condescending.

I’m sorry that you think that someone disagreeing with you is “condescending.” I’m also sorry that you can’t separate my reply to you about your bold claims & my separate point addressing the OP’s question.

No you where responding to me, if you are responding to the ops question you make a separate post and reply to them, you where being condescending and you know it, I am far from new on the internet and especially forums.

Sorry, but I didn’t see anything “condescending” in his post, maybe you can quote the part you object to.

And I agree with him that unless you are talking ONLY about raids, there generally isn’t anyone telling you how to play unless you pay attention to people in chat and who gives those people weight in a video game?

There are several different sites that parse character numbers and offer opinions on what builds are most effective at different playstyles. But they are run by different people (not one central voice) and they don’t contact you in-game to tell you that you have to use their site. It is completely voluntary to go to these sites and many people don’t even know they exist.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Djinn.9245:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Why? One has/had to ask, after the first few days, anyway, someone to summon the cat to charm from the Witch’s Outfit. Both are ‘extra’ content.

Regardless, it is offered as an option while waiting for the content to be fixed, if and when the Devs should decide to do so.

Anet purposefully left the Elemental Sprites so players could still do that event.

Eh? What has Elemental Sprites to do with the Feline Familiar from the Witch’s Outfit? Odd pairing, to say the least.

What I meant is that they left the Elemental Sprites so players could still do the Elemental Sprites event. So there is no clear tradition of abandoning optional content.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

Djinn.9245:

flog.3485:

Djinn.9245:

flog.3485:

The thing is, if they made HoT as easy as core maps, then all the people would just deplete core content and all the new players would have been leveling in empty maps with no veteran around to show them how the game operates.

No matter what style the expansion maps were, players would still be playing in those maps as well as core Tyria.

And in HoT there is no guarantee of a vet player showing anyone the ropes. I have been in several failed AB metas lately where after it failed many “vets” criticized people doing things wrong. My comment in Map Chat was “why didn’t you tell people what to do while the event was running instead of waiting until after it failed?”

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. As in for “showing the ropes” I wasn’t talking about HoT maps. I personally think that for any new player starting the game, it feels motivating to see players appearing as “vets” (due to their skin) still go back in core tyria. And that could only really happen if Anet devs, in the first place, did not make HoT content a carbon copy of how core maps operated.

I’m still not understanding – you think that vets wouldn’t go back to core Tyria no matter what style the expansion maps were? We still have dailies…

Didn’t ArenaNet kinda tell us they didn’t want the Vets in core when they killed the Champ Trains?

If memory serves me correctly folks were whining about the trains (Vocal Minority) so they killed it. Seems like the maps started losing population shortly afterwards.

They certainly didn’t want the Champ Train, but that isn’t the same as not wanting vets. By having dailies in core maps they do invite everyone to go back. But because events are spread throughout the map, instead of everyone going to a single champ, it is less toxic.

Ryuko.1497:

I’ve been after this for a little while now, and I’ve not heard good luck from many others. This boss is an insane boss to kill, I’ve never seen it die, only seen it fail. No one ever seems to want to do the pre-event but have no qualms showing up to reap the rewards from the final boss ,thus increasing its difficulty to a point they fail to properly contribute to defiance.

Is there a special place I’m missing good LFG’s? Is there a hot peak time?

I think that the biggest problem is people not breaking the defiance bar. Although I have seen Vinetooth killed several times since HoT was released, most of the time it is just brute force damage. This is true for many other bosses with defiance bars: if people can’t brute force the damage, they can’t kill it because hardly anyone bothers with the defiance bar.

I wonder whether the giant Anomalies that run around core Tyria ever get killed anymore. I’ve participated in 2 hunts over the past 6 months which both failed despite a huge zerg pursuing it.

Greyraven.4258:

I’m a long time MMO player, I started with the UO beta, though the original GW will always be my favorite, I’m a solid GW2 player since launch. But one thing I have noticed over my years of gaming…….

No one seems to want to have fun anymore. They are obsessed with numbers, averages, and metrics…it’s like the games have become spreadsheet and parser simulations that have very little to do with going on an adventure with your friends. The vast majority conversations I have had in game haven’t been about the world, the story or what is happening it’s all been about the math behind the game and it’s disheartening.

I personally don’t want another statistics class, I want to meet new friends and have fun in a living breathing world…wasn’t that what the MMO Manefesto was about?

Years ago a guy named Jack Emmert created a MMo called City of Heroes and he didn’t want to originally show the math of the attacks, abilities and blocks….he was pretty much crucified for it and caved, but I understand his reasoning now. I can’t be the only one that feels this way can I?

Honestly this whole direction especially with the new raid has me more than a little bit sad.

Yes, I just have fun. Because I am not driven to worry about how “well” I am doing in the game or to compete with other players I am called “casual”. But to me, games are for fun and “working” at a game is not fun.

But a lot of people do enjoy working at games. If they do, then they are also “having fun” – its just a different kind of fun than I’m having.

What I don’t understand is people who complain that they aren’t having fun, but then keep doing it anyway. Like people who complain that they are grinding but they keep doing it.

I began playing GW2 in beta. But no matter how “cool” something was, I didn’t grind for it because I don’t like grinding. About 6 months ago, I finally had acquired enough crafting materials and gold that I could comfortably create my first Legendary Weapon. Unlike others I am not grinding for gold or mats because I already have them. That is fun for me – not having to stress about a game.

TL,DR: If you find something in a game to not be fun, don’t do it.

flog.3485:

Djinn.9245:

flog.3485:

The thing is, if they made HoT as easy as core maps, then all the people would just deplete core content and all the new players would have been leveling in empty maps with no veteran around to show them how the game operates.

No matter what style the expansion maps were, players would still be playing in those maps as well as core Tyria.

And in HoT there is no guarantee of a vet player showing anyone the ropes. I have been in several failed AB metas lately where after it failed many “vets” criticized people doing things wrong. My comment in Map Chat was “why didn’t you tell people what to do while the event was running instead of waiting until after it failed?”

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. As in for “showing the ropes” I wasn’t talking about HoT maps. I personally think that for any new player starting the game, it feels motivating to see players appearing as “vets” (due to their skin) still go back in core tyria. And that could only really happen if Anet devs, in the first place, did not make HoT content a carbon copy of how core maps operated.

I’m still not understanding – you think that vets wouldn’t go back to core Tyria no matter what style the expansion maps were? We still have dailies…

Healix.5819:

Djinn.9245:

My character is supposed to be involved in this “EPIC STORY” but Anet purposefully puts him on the sidelines like this is some kind of hockey game.

They’re trying to show you that you failed. It’s a fight of a mind, so you being defeated means Mordremoth took control. If they put more time into it, they likely would have used the blighted mechanic, where you’re replaced with a champion NPC that needs to be taken down in order to bring you back. Doing this however would have made it much harder for the people that actually needed to group up for this solo content.

So Anet doesn’t think that I understand that if I die and can’t be rezzed, I failed? They have to put me in a special “you failed” box?

So Anet is a griefer…“L2P!”

Also, if they really wanted me to fail if I die during the fight, they should just kick me. As it is, I just feel bad but I can still get a completion.

Just to get this straight: the changes have made Power a loser or are Power and Condi more even?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Why? One has/had to ask, after the first few days, anyway, someone to summon the cat to charm from the Witch’s Outfit. Both are ‘extra’ content.

Regardless, it is offered as an option while waiting for the content to be fixed, if and when the Devs should decide to do so.

Anet purposefully left the Elemental Sprites so players could still do that event.

Sable.7421:

I think you guys are missing the entire point of the “Penalty Box” as you so put it. This encounter is intended to be challenging and introduces the concept of defeat without the chance of resurrection

What a great idea! My character is supposed to be involved in this “EPIC STORY” but Anet purposefully puts him on the sidelines like this is some kind of hockey game. LOL

ShadowGryphon.6257:

SamKablam.6241:

PS – I died during the battle when Mordremoth summoned some sort of ground explosion and I had to jump into an air updraft to avoid it, only, I couldn’t find it will all the kitten particle effects swirling around the map at the same time.

Two things of note.
1: you can now hide within the shield.
2: you only need to step over to the updrafts to get launched.

I don’t think jumping was the issue:

“I couldn’t find it will all the kitten particle effects swirling around the map at the same time.”

flog.3485:

The thing is, if they made HoT as easy as core maps, then all the people would just deplete core content and all the new players would have been leveling in empty maps with no veteran around to show them how the game operates.

No matter what style the expansion maps were, players would still be playing in those maps as well as core Tyria.

And in HoT there is no guarantee of a vet player showing anyone the ropes. I have been in several failed AB metas lately where after it failed many “vets” criticized people doing things wrong. My comment in Map Chat was “why didn’t you tell people what to do while the event was running instead of waiting until after it failed?”

I definitely vote Yes for this. I don’t understand why Anet would put this type of hairstyle on Alien races and not on Humans.

Halandir.3609:

Djinn.9245:

What most people who defend HoT maps think is that if you’re not there to do the Meta, you’re doing it wrong. Of course they think that everything besides the Meta is solo-able also, so you won’t get much sympathy if you’re trying to find people to do non-Meta stuff.
…

Pretty much sums up my HoT experience.
With HoT I felt the games direction changed from a utopic “Play your way” to a much more regular “Play this way or get out of the way.”

Grinding “content” that annoys me for hours to have fun is simply to yesterdecade for me.
A lot of people seem to like the change which is fine – They could though, have found the exact same style/focus in so many other games!

Yes, what disappoints me is that GW2 was originally based on a great premise of playing your way. They radically changed it to force people to play Anet’s way. I wish Anet would have left that to the other MMOs and kept GW2 the way so many of us loved it.

Labjax.2465:

Vayne.8563:

Labjax.2465:

Oh and BTW, I did have a time frame a few days ago (I think it was like evening-ish on a weekday) where I was trying to do events in AB and could not find people, like at all. Taxiing was pretty much dead under that section. I tried multiple times telling people I was doing pylons in map chat… got maybe 3-4 people in total in the 20-30 minutes I tried for. Tried tagging up several times, including trying queuing up in LFG to try to get people to join me.

Was mind-boggingly dead. When I finally just gave up after it took a handful of us something like 20 minutes to activate one pylon, I peeked around in LFG and did notice that TD seemed to be at the height of its meta, so maybe that was pulling in most of the active players in HoT maps. I had no idea TD was nearing that stage when I started trying to find people for pylons though, and really no way to know, without tracking the meta somehow or going to TD myself. Plus I didn’t really want to be TD at that moment.

So I mean, dead zones are not bigfoot. They are certainly something that exists in some capacity. Granted, in the times I’ve played since I came back, that is the worst I’ve seen it when I was trying to do events.

Edit: Meant AB, not VB. Wrong initials.

The meta schedule is found on timer sights like gw2timer.com which is the one I use. It’s no different than tracking world boss events. I wouldn’t bother doing fire ele until it was going to be up. That’s just how it is.

Thing is though, in this case, I wasn’t wanting to do “whatever event other people are on now.” I wanted to do AB. And I couldn’t find people for doing AB. Being able to find somewhere in the realm of 5-10 people total, in 30+ minutes, with various attempts to get people (and some of those 5-10 trickling away… I don’t remember how many there were at every point… I just know when I gave up, there were maybe 4 of us tops and most of the time, there was no more than 2-3, including myself).

Point is, during that time-frame, the map was definitely what most people call “dead” for doing events.

If I have to wait for a meta timer on a flagship HoT map to find people to do events that are happening on that map, I’d rank that pretty much as population problems in that moment.

So I’m a bit confused by your response. I’m not sure if you’re trying to respond to what I said, or just talking about the timer as a separate thing.

What most people who defend HoT maps think is that if you’re not there to do the Meta, you’re doing it wrong. Of course they think that everything besides the Meta is solo-able also, so you won’t get much sympathy if you’re trying to find people to do non-Meta stuff.

That said, I can only imagine someone coming to AB for the first time and finding what you describe. Not sure what they are supposed to do in that case. If they can’t solo, gg I guess.

Svarty.8019:

I’m looking forward to minor/major rune eaters.

You can sell runes.

Healix.5819:

Djinn.9245:

Healix is certainly right that dotsthat indicate unstarted events are part of the guide and that you can turn it off. I’m just not sure why he’s making that response to you.

The content guide points towards the nearest objective, but some objectives have priority over others. Turn it off and you can’t see rifts. Likewise, when something else has priority, you won’t be able to see any rifts. I never said that map completion was required, only that it may override the guide and prevent you from seeing them. You could be standing under a rift and never know it. With the map completed, you can see the nearest event from the other end of the map. Enable the story however and it will override the guide, preventing you from seeing any.

Ah, I completely missed what you were trying to say. Thanks!

And yes, that is unfortunate. I wonder if that is a “bug” that Anet can fix?

I completely agree with everything you said and so do my friends. Just yesterday we were discussing how we spend so much time in PvE playing our character, getting equipment to make our character better, tweaking our stats to make our character better, etc. and then Anet puts us in an instance where practically nothing about our character matters! They might as well give us a random character when we enter those instances because they take away practically everything that we worked so hard on to make our character WHAT WE WANTED TO PLAY!

And I also agree about the mini-games. If I wanted to play those games I would also go ahead and play that type of game. I am playing GW2 because I want to play an MMORPG…

Healix.5819:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

It doesn’t matter if the map is completed; you don’t need the compass to find Rift events. Anytime you see the little orange circle/star marker on a map, it may be a Rift event. Rift events happen in almost every map, including Cities.

Those markers are a part of the compass (content guide), which points towards the closest objective. If any other objective has priority, you won’t be able to see them. Turn off the content guide and they won’t be shown at all.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Really. My client must be broken, then, because I see those Rift events on characters that have not completed the map. I tend to only use characters that haven’t completed the map so I can fulfill ‘two birds with one stone’. What won’t appear with a Rift Event is the announcement, ‘New Event Nearby’. You just see them on the mini-map.

Sad for others, then, I guess.

I see Rift event dots on maps all the time also. And I do the same as you most of the time – playing alts on maps that they have not completed yet.

Healix is certainly right that dotsthat indicate unstarted events are part of the guide and that you can turn it off. I’m just not sure why he’s making that response to you.

Vayne.8563:

Djinn.9245:

Vayne.8563:

Danicus.4952:

I apologize for my negative disposition with HOT. I have posted on a few threads over the years about my dissatisfaction with HOT, and I see many familiar defenders of HOT on this thread. I do find resonance with this OP, and many others that have had similar experiences. It feels like the conversation hasn’t really evolved though. Many new players enjoy core Tyria, and run into a wall in HOT. They make their point on the forum, and there’s almost a professional team of posters ready to smack them down with honed arguments of why the OP’s experience isn’t valid. So I will retire for a few months again and see if things have changed. Good luck OP, there are people out there that understand your experience of HOT and support your point of view.

Even early on the support/I hate hot threads had about 50/50 on the posters. One side doesn’t have any kind of clear demograhic.

On top of that, the game did well for many many months, at least 3-4 quarters after HoT launched before it started to slip. HoT wasn’t as detrimental to the game as some people make it sound.

It lost some casual players, it picked up some raiders.

And since it’s been proven that more people will complain than compliment, I believe most people didn’t share the same complaints about HoT as the OP though undoubtedly some did. Also those complaints are split into two major groups, difficulty, of content and how confusing the map is. Not everyone who is confused by the map wants the easy content. Not everyone that wants the easy content necessarily wants simple maps. You don’t like it so strongly you’re assuming most people or a ton of people feel like you do. It’s probably not as high a percentage as you think.

All that said, if you post a negative post on something like Reddit, which is not moderator but fan moderated, you’ll find that they tend to get downvoted. That is to say the reddit audience has more people that like the new map complexity and difficulty than don’t.

Of course, that’s not really indicating anything since those people are in fact, more dedicated to the game and likely represent more skilled players.

Still its’ not as cut and dried as you seem to think.

Reading your response, I am compelled to ask what it has to do with the post you are replying to?

Vayne.8563:

You don’t like it so strongly you’re assuming most people or a ton of people feel like you do. It’s probably not as high a percentage as you think.

And specifically, where does he say this?

Where does he say this? It’s implied by this series of statements.

Ah, you’re putting words in his mouth. Back to not bothering to respond to you.

synk.6907:

I sometimes wonder how the people who dislike this style of map feel about some of the city areas. For example, the stacking that is Rata Sum or the central portion of the Black Citadel present multiple layers, and you didn’t have waypoints until you explored it.

TD and this map can certainly seem daunting, but my recommendation to people has been to explore the map first — without explicitly trying to rush to events or the story steps — and get the overall feel for the layout. Lava tube and gliding masteries will definitely help (as the wallows will in HoT maps). I dunno, after I did that I felt I had a good handle on where things were and how to get to events, and I’ve only been in there a couple times.

There aren’t timed events that I’m trying to get to but end up missing in cities…

Katastroff.1045:

Djinn.9245:

Katastroff.1045:

I looked up the wiki about that quest line once and wanted to do it, so i went to the pond, jumped in and interacted with the ‘’???’’ thing at the bottom of the pond. It gave me a gizmo to show the Charr npc and went on from there.

Tip: when he says ‘’wait a minute’’, wait the minute. =)

If you read the entire thread, people are saying that they tried this and there was no rift at the pond for them to jump into.

How long ago did you get the gizmo? The thought is that perhaps the quest line has been broken sometime recently.

I,ve been playing for 6 months, si i’d say it was about 3 months ago. After diving into the pond, i talked to that lovely Charr lad and he graciouly fixed my gizmo. I then proceeded to the little clearing just north of the pond and used the freaking thing.

POOF!!!! A nice rift opened up.

That quest line is really some messed up crap. First, you cant open a rift anywhere anytime. Second, the gizmo thing changes your skill bar, it could be numbers, or it could be some random crap that dont really take you anywhere.

But am I going to complain over some messed up, bugged up, butched up, hard to understand, abandoned quest line that is not getting me anywhere? No sir.

So you didn’t complete it recently. That seems to match up with the idea that it is CURRENTLY broken.

As for it being “messed up”, there are guides to the entire Rift subject that will explain everything to you, if you choose to search online. How did people figure out the guides? Because it actually isn’t that difficult to figure out, it just takes time to figure out what the controls do using trial and error.

Once you know what you can do with the controls, its actually pretty cool.

Vayne.8563:

Danicus.4952:

I apologize for my negative disposition with HOT. I have posted on a few threads over the years about my dissatisfaction with HOT, and I see many familiar defenders of HOT on this thread. I do find resonance with this OP, and many others that have had similar experiences. It feels like the conversation hasn’t really evolved though. Many new players enjoy core Tyria, and run into a wall in HOT. They make their point on the forum, and there’s almost a professional team of posters ready to smack them down with honed arguments of why the OP’s experience isn’t valid. So I will retire for a few months again and see if things have changed. Good luck OP, there are people out there that understand your experience of HOT and support your point of view.

Even early on the support/I hate hot threads had about 50/50 on the posters. One side doesn’t have any kind of clear demograhic.

On top of that, the game did well for many many months, at least 3-4 quarters after HoT launched before it started to slip. HoT wasn’t as detrimental to the game as some people make it sound.

It lost some casual players, it picked up some raiders.

And since it’s been proven that more people will complain than compliment, I believe most people didn’t share the same complaints about HoT as the OP though undoubtedly some did. Also those complaints are split into two major groups, difficulty, of content and how confusing the map is. Not everyone who is confused by the map wants the easy content. Not everyone that wants the easy content necessarily wants simple maps. You don’t like it so strongly you’re assuming most people or a ton of people feel like you do. It’s probably not as high a percentage as you think.

All that said, if you post a negative post on something like Reddit, which is not moderator but fan moderated, you’ll find that they tend to get downvoted. That is to say the reddit audience has more people that like the new map complexity and difficulty than don’t.

Of course, that’s not really indicating anything since those people are in fact, more dedicated to the game and likely represent more skilled players.

Still its’ not as cut and dried as you seem to think.

Reading your response, I am compelled to ask what it has to do with the post you are replying to?

Vayne.8563:

You don’t like it so strongly you’re assuming most people or a ton of people feel like you do. It’s probably not as high a percentage as you think.

And specifically, where does he say this?

Healix.5819:

Djinn.9245:

The thought is that perhaps the quest line has been broken sometime recently.

Rifts stopped automatically opening within the first month, likely with the following patch once it was no longer the current event.

I’m hoping that Anet wasn’t so shortsighted as to purposefully stop the initial rift at Gillscale Pond from opening automatically. Since you have to grab the item there and talk to the NPC there, and since all the guides talk about entering your first Rift there, of course people are going to go there to begin the sequence. But of course there aren’t going to be many people there that could possibly open a Rift for you unless it is a daily zone.

I am giving Anet the benefit of the doubt by assuming that Rifts not automatically opening at Gillscale Pond is a bug.

As for starting the sequence by jumping into just any Rift, I can’t remember the last time I actually saw a Rift. Probably at least 2 months ago.

Exclamatory.8351:

If I want it, I’ll pick it up myself. I do not need you to pick it up for me when I run by forcing me to drop the bundle. This is even more annoying when you’re in combat and even moreso when you’re in overload air and drop the bundle (as it cancels your elemental overload).

Please Anet. This is too much.

I agree. I was in the Inquest camp holding a keyboard and every time I ran by an Oakheart Essence I dropped the keyboard. What a pain.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You can use any Rift in the game, on any map, while waiting for any adjustments around the pond. I’m sure any number of players would be happy to open a Rift for others to start the ‘quest’.

Good luck.

Unfortunately, people trying to start this quest line by following the instructions on various sites are unlikely to know this. Some might try it on the off chance, but it really should just be fixed.

Katastroff.1045:

I looked up the wiki about that quest line once and wanted to do it, so i went to the pond, jumped in and interacted with the ‘’???’’ thing at the bottom of the pond. It gave me a gizmo to show the Charr npc and went on from there.

Tip: when he says ‘’wait a minute’’, wait the minute. =)

If you read the entire thread, people are saying that they tried this and there was no rift at the pond for them to jump into.

How long ago did you get the gizmo? The thought is that perhaps the quest line has been broken sometime recently.

phys.7689:

Djinn.9245:

vesica tempestas.1563:

riiight then, maybe you want to actually read up a bit on the context of the survey and who completed the survey and why, its not a conspiracy theory to win an argument on a gaming forum for example. Alternatively, it doesn’t take a huge leap in imagination to correlate this against the gaming population in the 70s, 80,s 90’s, or even the player range – say 12-90. my original point is gamers have experience, they didnt come into GW2 cold, they know how to work things out.

ps there are other averages than median.

“av·er·age
?av(?)rij
noun
1.
a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.
“the housing prices there are twice the national average”
synonyms: mean, median, mode"

“Other averages” are not called “average”. There are other specific terms to represent different means of showing aggregate data. A professional entity would use the appropriate word. So if they say “average” they either mean “average” or they don’t know what they are doing.

although i understand your point, the link you give shows that people could mean any of 3 different things when they say average.
mean, median and mode all mean dif things.

This is true. What I meant was that mainly “average” is understood to be the “mean”. Because this is the understanding, other types of “average” need to be stated unless the results are meant to be misleading or are simply presented in a less accurate manner.

OriOri.8724:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/suggestions/What-Eternity-Should-Look-Like

This thread has my favorite fan-made eternity skin

That really is beautiful.

Hitman.5829:

Djinn.9245:

I disagree with the OP. If people want more diversity, add a utility slot. Swapping in combat is a bad idea.

You said it is a bad idea but you don’t say why it is a bad idea. If people want to swap skills while in combat, how does that affect those who don’t want to swap while on combat?

When I wrote that response I didn’t have time to formulate a detailed response as to why it was a bad idea. However Indigo’s response sums it up nicely.

IndigoSundown.5419:

click ^ to see Indigo’s response.

Labjax.2465:

, some of the mobs in this game aren’t exactly dumb or inept. Some of them are downright obnoxious and great at making a mockery of players.

Like Mordrem Snipers, for instance.

The Assassin frogs in HoT are very nasty also.

OriOri.8724:

It breaks immersion, hard. Here we have the PC who is the (now former) Pact Commander. A character that has taken down 2 elder dragons and fought side by side with some of the toughest characters in in-game lore. While the PC may not be the absolute best at their profession, they also are incredibly powerful. If they weren’t then all the struggles that we go through during the story would be meaningless, as literally anyone could have done the same thing.

So you have this character that is setup to be extremely powerful, and then some nobody, some mercenary comes up and we are expected to believe that they have abilities that the PC will never be able to master?

Mechanics wise I understand why we can never have these skills. But lore wise, this breaks immersion like nothing else does. If we are so kitten powerful, how come our PC mesmers can only cast a single mind stab at a time, whilst every white mantle mesmer can cast a solid 4-5 at once? How come the PC mesmers can’t have their illusions take the killing blows for them like every white mantle mesmer can? This just shatters immersion.

This is exactly my issue.

I think for the White Mantle, what Anet should have done is given them a “White Mantle Mastery Line” so they had some completely different powers that the PC can’t ever get because they were discovered / developed by the White Mantle. The White Mantle even has different Character Classes like the Cleric. So this would fit the story and still give the White Mantle powers that we don’t have.

Rauderi.8706:

Ashantara.8731:

It not height/length issue, but a severe issue with textures in this game. I can’t count the numerous times I cursed the devs because I couldn’t walk over a flat bump, slipped off a ledge because the texture displayed didn’t equal the walkable space, and so on.

Agreed. The lack of conveyance by the terrain in both jumping puzzles and HoT’s Adventures are very much the reason I don’t them often.

Add on that most of these things ranged from pitiful to cruel in their humane design considerations, and I’m reminded why most other platformers have better level design. The devs are so busy trying make things “Nintendo hard” that they’ve forgotten some now-basic game design concepts, with Chalice of Tears being some of the laziest and/or willfully ignorant among them.

Chalice of Tears was said by Anet to be intended to “make players cry”. Presumably they (Josh?) decided that the way to make that JP really difficult is to not show any kind of path, and not allow the players to guess which terrain they can safely land on and which terrain they can’t. Not having terrain that is consistent with the rest of the game simply makes this JP more “fail until you get it right”. Unfortunately “failing” in this puzzle often = death so it is more annoying than many.

I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.

I vote “no” to the OP.

I disagree with the OP. If people want more diversity, add a utility slot. Swapping in combat is a bad idea.

Me and my friends were just talking about this topic last night. Anet, please don’t create mobs that are supposed to be the same class as Player Characters but have abilities PCs don’t have (unless they are Boss mobs). It’s a lazy way to introduce challenge. Make a completely different mob if you want it to have different abilities. I don’t care that my characters can’t Trample like a centaur or Wing Buffet like a wyvern – my character doesn’t have 4 hooves or (non backpiece) wings. But I am irritated that Anet creates “Mesmer” trash mobs that have abilities my Mesmer does not.

And if you’re going to introduce named Player Class characters that have special abilities, let’s have a story about why or how they have those abilities!

It appears that the Unstable Rift that you need to jump through in order to fall into Gillscale Pond and begin the events that get you a Class I Rift Stabilizer do not appear anymore around the pond. See this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lwd/Class-1-Magic-Rift-Current-Events

I would have loved for our guild (whose purpose is mainly to fight stuff) to consist of actual adults with adventuring experience like Destiny’s Edge. Instead we get children. Rytlock of course was part of Destiny’s Edge so he is automatically qualified. Some might not like Marjory and Kasmeer but they, Canach, and Rox are at least adults who have proven that they have skills.

No children.

vesica tempestas.1563:

riiight then, maybe you want to actually read up a bit on the context of the survey and who completed the survey and why, its not a conspiracy theory to win an argument on a gaming forum for example. Alternatively, it doesn’t take a huge leap in imagination to correlate this against the gaming population in the 70s, 80,s 90’s, or even the player range – say 12-90. my original point is gamers have experience, they didnt come into GW2 cold, they know how to work things out.

ps there are other averages than median.

“av·er·age
?av(?)rij
noun
1.
a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.
“the housing prices there are twice the national average”
synonyms: mean, median, mode"

“Other averages” are not called “average”. There are other specific terms to represent different means of showing aggregate data. A professional entity would use the appropriate word. So if they say “average” they either mean “average” or they don’t know what they are doing.

Exclamatory.8351:

I’d like there to be more of a puzzle aspect to JP’s and less trial and error.

Excellent short version of what I think the OP is trying to say. I totally agree.

Tekey.7946:

Djinn.9245:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

At least there’s guaranteed progression. Could be RNG like some certain Spoons that can take forever to drop.

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

One thought: Don’t try to attain the backpack in just 16 days. Spread it out over 2 or 3 months so it does not seem quite so repetitive.

Pro-tip: Never try key-running.

Good luck.

I completely agree. It’s like “Hungry Hal” – everyone complained what a grind it was to run back and forth with one apple 50 times in a row. But no one said you had to do it 50 times in a row. When I feel like going back to that map, I run Hal 2 or 3 apples. Eventually I’ll have it done. I see no benefit in having it done faster.

No, people were upset to see that type of quest in GW2. I can remember people saying there’s no difference to other generic MMORPG starter quests. Many other games have some pretty interesting story lines in quests that might or might not include grind. But Anet decided to implement a ridiculous “gather 0/50 apples and bring them over there” quest with absolutely no story at all.

The same with the druid runestone. You’ll hear some lines of the druid but doing the same freaking starter heart quests 64 times has absolutely no value in terms of storytelling or gameplay. It’s just insulting, that’s how bad it is. 64 times: kill 0/30 mercenaries. kill 0/30 spiders. kill 0/30 inquest researchers. Wow. That’s the best game design I’ve ever seen.

A game that claims to be different, but introduces you to the most ridiculous, never ending tasks in its end game PVE zones, that’s what GW2 is right now. If that’s the direction Anet chose, it’s really, really sad to see what “Guild Wars” 2 has become – I don’t even want to call it Guild Wars anymore. And I hope for everyone that the next expansion will bring some fresh air.

What I saw in the Hungry Hal thread was people complaining that it was too long and boring. However I agree that this type of quest is very generic MMO.

That being said, I think that Anet had a lot of grand ideas for how GW2 was going to be different, and better, than a generic MMO. Some of the ideas were successful. But I think that they found out that innovation costs more money, and doing things differently and more creatively costs more money. If you do things that other games have already done, you know how to do that. If you try to create new ways of doing things, you have to spend time figuring out how that would work. You have to try to think of how the players will exploit the new way of doing things, etc. And more story = spending time deciding where you want the story to go and then writing it.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t do more MMO innovation, but it is expensive and GW2 doesn’t have subscriptions.

mooseface.3025:

Hi All…

The jumping puzzles provided in the game by the programmers although very challenging lack the crucial “fun” ingredient and intelligent approach where the skills and knowledge you acquired with your character leveling up to 80 are useless , null and void

Its all a matter of guess work on what you should try and try and try again. There is no consistency in the height or distance your character can travel. So we never really get to know the limitations to our character. To be able to establish with confidence “I can jump this distance or i can jump this height”. ..You can find yourself jumping to a height destination never possible before and fail at a height destination previously accomplished numerous times in the past. The same goes for distance.

And then there is the inclines…sometimes you can walk up that steep incline and sometimes you cant. More guess work.

To make matters worst it is often ridiculously unclear where to go next and what obstacle will support you. With the number of critical jumping moves required to achieve your destination, the process quickly turns to frustration. It certainly appears that the puzzles were designed as a stall tactic and not designed for entertainment.

The bottom line is simply this. I like to be rewarded for learning and then applying my knowledge to my character move limitations to solve the puzzle instead of watching someone on youtube post the route after countless hours and endless attempts of finally guessing the correct path.

Michael

I completely agree. l find it stupid that you can never tell whether you can actually make a jump until you try. You should be able to tell based on experience.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

At least there’s guaranteed progression. Could be RNG like some certain Spoons that can take forever to drop.

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

One thought: Don’t try to attain the backpack in just 16 days. Spread it out over 2 or 3 months so it does not seem quite so repetitive.

Pro-tip: Never try key-running.

Good luck.

I completely agree. It’s like “Hungry Hal” – everyone complained what a grind it was to run back and forth with one apple 50 times in a row. But no one said you had to do it 50 times in a row. When I feel like going back to that map, I run Hal 2 or 3 apples. Eventually I’ll have it done. I see no benefit in having it done faster.

After reset yesterday, I did notice that the Petrified Wood nodes were still stumps. This doesn’t happen every time but it did happen yesterday.

Chadramar.8156:

Braham isn’t just loathed because he turned into a puerile POS, but also because the supposed actual protagonist, i.e. the player, is written as a spineless faceless incompetent doormat for his (and other NPCs’) sake.

When the NPCs get all the development (however well or badly written) and all the completely one-sided “friendship” overtures from us while they are never shown caring about us, when in fact they spit in our faces while we are still made to wring our hands in worry about what they think of us … something is messed up big time.

Braham’s grief was treated with respect throughout HoT. I bet many of us, my story main included, didn’t even consider not bringing him for the final fight because of course he should be able to get personal revenge for Eir. That makes his actions now feel even worse. And then there’s his “try losing your mother” verbal attack. A sylvari PC’s mother, the sole source of her people, has been in a coma for many months with no signs of improvement (before the Caladbolg mini-story). A human PC can be an orphan. A charr PC lost their warband, the closest bonds in their society, and as a result almost became a despised gladium through no fault of their own. Can we express any of that? No.

If we were given roleplaying options and race-influenced dialog choices, I think many people would still dislike Braham, but at least there wouldn’t be the irritation of every PC being the same meek punching bag.

THIS! I hate the way they have the PC respond in these situations.