Guild Wars 2

OtakuDFifty.2965:

Malchior.5732:

One good thing the Tempest will do is bring a ton of people attempting to Overload in PvP.
It’ll be so much fun to completely destroy them.

I fail to see how Overloads make Eles any easier to destroy. I get destroyed just fine on my regular Ele.

Hm, a skill that locks you into an animation when you cannot dodge or swap attunements for a good amount of time…maybe that? Well, if you manage to cast it anyways.

Gorisek.2678:

Bawi.9541:

Tasks:

1. Read the OP
2. Spot and name the different biases
3. Do you think the author is aware of them and using them to manipulate? Do you think he has fallen victim to his own argumentation? Explain your answer.
4. Give counterargument to the suggestions (5 per)
5. Why is the author switching from self-praise in the clickbaity thread title to emotional ranting in the first paragraph. (What feelings does this evoke in the reader? What may be the author’s intentions? How does this influence the author’s credibility?)
   Can you spot this contradiction in any other aspect in the text?
6. Why did the author choose to format the thread the way he did?
7. Upvote FrownyClown and rotten’s posts

Dear user, this is serious post, in order to replay to it, we suggest you to not consume or be under effect of any kind of drugs. Ty.

Dear OP, if you do not want people to reply to your threads with comments such as this, I would suggest you to take your own advice and not consume any drugs when making your posts. Have a great day!

posthumecaver.6473:

Bawi.9541:

FrownyClown.8402:

I think a big reason d/d isn’t nerfed is because of heart of thorns and its implications for the meta.

Yeah agree, they seem to be in a wait-and-see mood right now. Rightfully so imo, with new content coming up and being worked on, new elite specs, rebalancing of revealed elite specs.
This inbetween phase sucks – balancingwise – but if you’ve ever experienced expansion launches in other big MMOs this should come as no surprise. Good thing is we’re not getting a new level-cap, so it’s only waiting for the effects the new builds have on the meta. Some of the new toys seem to be aimed at hitting d/d even.

The only reason they didn’t nerf D/D Ele is because they should nerf the fire trait line which is a DPS line and probably a nerf there would be huge nerf to PVE glass cannons like Staff Ele, Scepter, etc…

Which is totally false because pve and pvp eles use different traits, there is only one in common. The major issue are Blinding ashes and might on cantrips + burning. Nerfing these traits would mean very little to pve ele, at least meta staff builds.

Ohoni.6057:

snip

So the comparsion to wildstar is okay because it’s better for your argument but comparsion to other games isn’t because it doesn’t?

Well, lucky for you they decided to add raids and put the legendary armour there. They’re not taking anything from you. Everyone can go and do raids and everyone can get the rewards. If you don’t want to do so, then guess what? You’re not gonna get the rewards.

And you have an awfuly high opinion of what ‘’running AC 100 times’’ is worth.

And lol, no. They might have announced 5 millions, but that is not the number of actual players. There are people with multiple accounts, for example. I myself have four.

Edit: Apprently it was the number of coppies sold, lol. There’s way way way less active people right now and the population is not growing really.

A Volcano.2510:

Laraley.7695:

If they actually succeed at making the raids difficult so it requires actually using your brain and skill, then the skins should be only exclusive to that said raid. They already stayed on the casual level with not adding gear progression and higher level cap. You seriously cannot be asking them to hand out rewards meant to be for raids to everyone.

What raids require brains? The more complicated raids of ANY game just require memorization.

All of them—no matter how complicated—require trivial amounts of cognitive processing…

Does “avoid red spot on ground” require significant brains, or only okay-ish reflex speed?

This is NOT aimed at you, but most hardcore raiders seem to be drama queens who have an inflated sense of self-brain-power but would doubtless flunk a hardcore math (or other subject area!) skills test that actually measured brains.

Yet, there are people who aren’t able to perform well even after being carried many times. I’m talking about other games, obviously. Raids and most content in other games actually require more skill than ‘’stack and icebow’‘. I’ve played games with quite complicated boss mechanics that actually did require you to use your brain.

This might be true for some raiders, but mostly it isn’t. At least I’ve always met people who were interested in completely different things. They wanted to be challenged and have something to work towards, which gw2 lacks completely right now.

Ohoni.6057:

And that’s fine. Every game has it’s own strengths and weaknesses, and one of GW2’s great strengths is exactly that it provokes this sort of impression, and thus drives the players who think it away from the game, which makes the game better for everyone else. It’s like driving all the snakes out of Ireland.

No, it’s fine to you. Luckily, you’re not the game developer and you do not get to decide if the game stays casual or not. Again, better for you, not everyone else.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, and that’s a good thing, and should remain that way. Play to your strengths. Casuals are what have made GW2 one of the more successful MMOs out there, while “hardcore” games like Wildstar completely faceplanted.

Once again, that’s only your opinion and you do not have the right to decide if it will stay that way. Oh yeah? Hardcore games like wow? FF14 has gear progerssion, too and it’s on about the same success level as gw2.

Ohoni.6057:

I could, and do, say the same thing about raiders. Why do you feel that you deserve the best things and nobody else does? Why can’t we both get the best things? I’m not trying to take anything from you, why do you insist on taking anything from me?

That’s pretty simple. Because the raiders would clear the content that’s required to get the exclusive rewards. No one is taking anything from you, but yourself. Do you see ome potential raiders complaining they cannot get some stuff just because they do not want to do the casual content? Nope.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, so long as people work an appropriate amount to earn them.

If you’re going to give rewards that require skill to people without any skill you completely devaluate it. What would be the appropriate amount of work to deserve rewards from raids? Clearing AC 100 times? Doing map copletion 10 times? Would the skill reflected somewhere? No, since no current pve content take any skill. You are not entitled to rewards if you do not do what’s needed to earn them, it’s that simple.

Bearhugger.4326:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Laraley.7695:

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen.

Yes, GW2 is (well…was) fairly casual, indeed. It was the one MMO for people like me. There are 20 MMOs out there that cater to elitists and people who want to brag with exclusive gear. Seriously, why is this sort of people even playing this game and then trying to shape it into something it was at least at launch not meant to be? I don’t get that.

Better question. Why should Arenanet keep their game exclusively casual when they can have content for both the casual and the hardcore raiders? I’m sorry but WoW and SW:ToR have both crowds, so why can’t Guild Wars 2? It’s not like they’re taking away the world content or the living world to create raids. It’s going to be the same Guild Wars 2, only with some extras for the more dedicated players.

This thread is your answer. Because people with no intention to put any effort into doing raids will complain on forums they cannot get the raid rewards.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Laraley.7695:

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen.

Yes, GW2 is (well…was) fairly casual, indeed. It was the one MMO for people like me. There are 20 MMOs out there that cater to elitists and people who want to brag with exclusive gear. Seriously, why is this sort of people even playing this game and then trying to shape it into something it was at least at launch not meant to be? I don’t get that.

PS: None of the things you listed is all that important, at least not in my opinion. Locking non-raiders out from an entire -class- of items (legendary armor) is a different beast, won’t you agree? I wouldn’t even have cared all -that- much about raiders getting their exclusive armor skin, but why can’t the rest of us work on legendary armor as well, our way?

You do realize that it was their decision to add raids because this game interests no one but casuals? Maybe they actually want a bigger playerbase but since there’s literally nothing to do in pve after quite a short time, they decided to bring something people could work on? You’re a casual, okay enjoy that, but why do you feel entitled to having the best stuff in game? Why do you feel it’s your right to dictate how the game will develop? You might not like the direction its heading, but tons of people do. And the fact you completely fail to understand why people like the idea shows you really do not know what you’re talking about.

Because just simply deal with the fact you can’t get everything you want. Why should you be able to obtain it? Because you bought the game? By lowering the standards, you also lower the game difficulty and there are lots people who do not like that. Deal with the fact different people will have different opinions. People who were actually interested in raiding weren’t able to do so in the game so far, so please don’t ruin it for them. I’m not sure what you would like to be rewarded for with legendary skins. Grinding silverwastes? Doing the same easy mode dungeons for the millionth time? I honestly have no idea what pve people do in this game.

If they actually succeed at making the raids difficult so it requires actually using your brain and skill, then the skins should be only exclusive to that said raid. They already stayed on the casual level with not adding gear progression and higher level cap. You seriously cannot be asking them to hand out rewards meant to be for raids to everyone.

Edit: As there are people who play this game to be casual, there are also players who play it for something else (combat system for example) and some of them do not want it to be this casual. Stop thinking you have the right to say what’s gonna happen.

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen. People just want endgame stuff without any effort. There is no single mmo out there that would let you obtain anything you want by only doing stuff you want.

You want it? Then work for it. You don’t want to do that? Well, the kitten deal with it. Stop thinking you’ll get everything by screaming on forums. That’s how you’re ruining the game for others.

Also:

I cannot get pvp armour without doing pvp.
I cannot get fractals skins/tonic without doing fractlas.
I cannot get wvw skins without doing wvw.
I cannot get this title without doing what’s required for it.
I cannot get this mini without doing what’s required for it.

Stop acting worse than 3 year old kids, seriously.

Jasher.6580:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Just put the ready button right in the middle of the screen with flashing quaggans dancing around it so people don’t miss it.

I don’t think people are missing it. I think a lot of people don’t know that if everyone ready’s up it will start the match.

Most of the people I’ve played with simply forget about the button and so do I after so many matches played. Come on, it’s a tiny button located somewhere I rarely look. Adding rewards for pressing it would definitely not make me press it, I would still forget.

otetas.9675:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

The problem isn’t the amulet itself. I’m surprised people still think it’s the amulet even though celestial engineer is no longer a thing after IP was moved to firearms.

The problem is that no build should be the best at everything. Take celestial D/D ele for example. An ele that chooses to spec Fire instead of Earth should have significantly reduced power damage reduction compared to Earth spec. This can be easily achieved by increasing the ICD of blinding ashes to 12s (as I’ve suggested on multiple threads). Likewise, an ele speccing into three defensive lines (earth, water, arcana) should suffer from reduced damage output, both power and condi. Now the power damage output of this spec isn’t anything ridiculous, but the burn output definitely needs looking at (either an overall burn nerf or changes to the burn application skills, or even a combination of both).

Thats the thing, but by removing the amulet ur nerfing their biggest spec. My solution was to temporarly remove if they cant find a quick fix for the ele.

No by removing it, you’re also removing ele from pvp. There is no second option for eles right now.

The amulet is not the issue, as someone said above. You can deal with the spec by removing it, but don’t call it balance, that’s certainly not what you would be doing.

Also, it’s not the strongest build, it’s the only build. And people who say s/f fresh air is fine have no clue what they’re talking about.

xinkspillx.3914:

being better than the horrible RNG the game already has

What? Are we playing the same game? Everything in gw2 is so easy to get compared to other games. You can be horrible at the game and still have endgame stuff, because it’s just so casual. And no one will even ask you to have 10 legendaries and everything ascended to run something in this game. Plus there’s no inspecting either.

Try playing some other game with incredible RNG, like Tera for example, and then complain.

I really don’t get these people complaining about 7 minute queues, lol.

Also, if you would rather have totally new people in ranked than having some good matches, I’m not sure why you do pvp at all.

Kicast.1459:

Lol…ele crying about their death while we get ele everywhere..so funny how people are narrow minded.

Are people crying? Because I don’t see that. I see that OP says that ele needs a rework because its too strong at this moment. He points out that the forums get more and more toxic, which is true. And he also says that it’s impossible to lead a normal discussion here and you’re one of the people who plays a part in that.

I do not think they will nerf ele to the ground. I’ve said this before, but I think they are scared of doing so and that’s the reason we haven’t seen any ele nerfs. It’s not like they nerfed the class so much before, yet it turned into complete trash. It definitely needs to be toned down, but there are tons of things that needs to be fixed and buffed. Scepter has the same issues it’s had since the release of the game, other utilites are completely worthless and ele has very few options what to run. If they nerf it (and they should), they also need to make other specs viable. The problem is, though, they’re completely clueless about how to do that in my opinion.

T raw.4658:

Never in GW2’s life has taking 4 of one profession been viable let alone winning a tournament.

Good day

That is not correct. In times when hambow was strong, people were running even 4 of it and were still able to win.

Anyways, nerfing the class to the point when it’s no longer viable is as bad as it being too strong. I don’t really care what personal issues you have with the spec, but that is not how you balance the game.

And in reality ele has basically only dagger mainhand and staff since scepter is trash and no one bothers to fix it.

Also, don’t forget other classes have a wider variety in twohanded weapons at least. They definitely should have gone with a mainhand or twohand, but it’s too much work ya know.

The problem is not the class itself, but the skill level of the people who play it. If it’s soloq, then two thieves are not a problem if they know what they’re doing. I’ve had many games when I had two thieves and we won easily.

Thief is an attractive class for people, but it definitely takes more time and experience to master compared to specs you can just be sort of effective with the moment you start playing the game. But yeah, class stacking is bad.

Lucifer.7289:

style.6173:

and I bet ANET also wonders why they struggle to get 1000 viewers for their tournaments.

This^ I love guild wars 2 and been playing since launch, but when I came back and heard they were still trying to push their pvp as an Esport with their lack of balancing, I cringed so hard.

Lets be honest here, the reason why not many people watch gw2 is due to the fact is one of the worst games to actually watch. It’s way too fast paced for people who do not play the game or are not very experienced to actually understand what’s going on.

You maybe do not think so but the balance is on a fairly good level compared to other mmos.

Alekt.5803:

Soothing power was sold as a 200% heal increase. To fix the bug, they actually made the bug a reality. Touché.

It wasn’t a bug, it was a simply failing in math.

Dardamaniac.1295:

I always thought that if there were some kind of banning system in GW2 it will make the balance much better..
Vamp runes
OP builds
OP traits

And I always thought they should have just banned stacking classes. Easy.

I have stopped playing the game due to the fact I’m currently just tired of it. I’m not gonna say it was only because of Tempest, but it played a big part. It wasn’t some irrational and rushed decision, but just didn’t want to log in anymore. I’ve played the game for over two years and at this point I would just like something new to play on the class I main, but the game got very stale. I really cannot stand playing the same spec for such a long time with no variety and with pvp being at the state it is.

I am going to come back to the game at some point, but Tempest is not making me want to at all. I might play a different class, I’m not sure, but I really do wish they would just read the feedback and do the changes they’re supposed to.

Mightybird.6034:

PS and if you really think the devs are gonna listen to a thread like this……….you realize there have been 1,000s of these threads on ALL classes? If they listened to these x class is OP thread we’d all be playing kittens with mittens.

Ofc not, they never visit the ele forums.

Anyways, d/d ele need a slight nerf, but I definitely do not agree with many posts here due to the fact there is a very thin line between ele being too strong and too weak. It’s not really hard to overnerf ele and I think that’s the reason we haven’t seen any d/d ele nerf. They are simply scared of doing it again.

What needs to happen are frequent balance patches. Just adjusting burning on ele (and imo in general) along with the might generation should change a lot, then you can nerf something else if it’s not enough.

psizone.8437:

I’ve played ele and fought them many times and for me the most obvious solution to the “celestial menace” would be to remove or reduce the healing from the water skills of the dual wield weapons.

I have no problem with elementalists being tanky, nor do I have an issue with their burst or high condition damage if they’re specced that way. But I don’t believe they should be able to fully heal themselves from 30% health without touching their heal skill especially on such short cooldowns.

Obviously since the heal they’re using is the Signet, which actually requires you not to touch it to get the most out of it.

Easy, adjust numbers on Evasive Arcana. Fixed. Not enough? Well, then adjust the numbers on it again along with Healing Ripple, but come on lets not nerf something that has actually counterplay – heal on weapon skills.

tuck.2719:

The changes thread has two people saying, “Thanks for listening to us! Great progress!” and the rest saying, “Are you kidding?! Have you even read the feedback?” Therefore the follow-up will likely be, “Folks seem to be really supportive of the changes we’re making.”

This actually made me laugh, but it’s sad how true it is.

Raif.9507:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

“The concepts behind overloading an element were pretty well received” ¯\(?)/¯

That’s not why I got from reading this forum since the BWE.

The idea behind the overloads were indeed well received. The implementation on the other hand wasn’t.

I disagree. Just the idea of overloads is pretty bad if you consider how ele works currently. And no it’s not going to add a new playstyle like they tried to do due to the fact you either need to revamp the whole class of make overloads broken to be worth taking at the moment.

Anyways, I’m starting to think they’re rushing HoT so they picked some classes that would get worse elite specs because they do not have time to make them good. Maybe we were even supposed to get a sword, but time was pushing them. There is really no reason to work kitten some elite specs but not others.

Azoqu.8917:

First World Problems.

I understand that tempest is pretty horrible but people who are all doom and gloom about elementalist being horrible must be delusional. Best class is still the best class.

You must have some reading issues. All post I see are ‘’tempest is horrible’’ and not ‘’ele is horrible’’.

So the reason why tempest is bad is the fact people don’t have time for the class? How come that people doing on reaper, chronomancer and rev have the time? And how come you thought that ‘’overloads were well recieved’’ then? People do not have time to read the feedback either?

KarlusDavius.1024:

Ok forum warriors, time to calm down.

Remind yourselves that this is a BETA post. We will be having more of these. There is no point in buffing and changing EVERYTHING only to find you over cooked it. Getting the basics right first is obviously the dev’s priority. The traits are probably being looked at but won’t be available for the next upcoming event.

If you have read the feedback given, it seems the mechanics of these new changes are pretty complex. Give them time and keep giving them feedback like they have asked.

The dev’s have shown that they care and listen. Assume they are doing the same until proven otherwise.

First of all, stop calling people forum warriors. They have every right to complain.

Second of all: They do not read the feedback. If they did they would know people didn’t want simple number tweaks. The issues with the spec are deeper than that.

Third of all: Compare the changes other specs are getting to this one. It’s a complete joke.

No point giving them feedback anymore when they can’t either properly read it or just do not care. And if their priority is tweaking numbers over fixing mechanical issues then I do fear for the class.

This was exactly what I was afraid off – you not properly reading the feedback and only tweaking numbers when there are tons of mechanical issues with the skills. The fact not a single trait was touched or the fact we still have the worst elite in history of this game makes me think that the devs responsible for ele and tempest have no clue about the class. It just comes from the fuindamental idea of the spec which wasn’t recieved very well and I would argue overcharging was like you say. There were many issue with the spec that weren’t about numbers at all, but somehow that goes by unnoticed.

It’s not only bad for tempest, but for also for the whole game. One thing is not being able to actually make the spec good, second thing is the fact d/d hasn’t been nerfed for ages now. This imo just comes from the simple fact you just fail to balance it so we either have something broken or something too weak. That’s how the whole class have been since the launch.

Ario.8964:

Going through it once on certain terrain can give 6 stacks of burn due to some weird terrain pathing thing that makes the game register as you running through 2 times. In extremely rare cases it can go up to 12 stacks. Though if you’re complaining because you run through it multiple times and don’t cleanse then pay attention to what you’re doing and make better choices.

Or just dodge. Especially when you know there is a bug.

I don’t care about gameplay, I just watch Leeto.
#BestnecroEU
#321321321

Seriously tho, he’s the best streamer for me. Always dying watching him.

chibbi.3706:

How do you even get 17 stacks of burning against an ele ?

You facetank Drake’s breath, then walk in and out of RoF several times and finally you go complain on the forums.

Leo G.4501:

Laraley.7695:

Leo G.4501:

scerevisiae.1972:

I might add I think it’s pretty silly that warrior has more long range (1200) weapons than ele.

Warrior has 26 ranged skills in total. Ele has 55 not including utilities, transformations or downed skills.

Do you realize this has nothing to do with what the person posted?

Seems about as pertinent as mentioning amount of weapons in this context. So compare the number of 1200 range weapons (3 vs 2)? Why not the number of 1200 ranged attacks (17vs 34)?

Because both of the classes are balanced differently? Warriors have less skills, but usually on low cooldowns compared to ele which has lots skills but higher cooldowns. The fact ele has more 1200 range weapon skills gives you a false feeling of variety in playstyles, but in the end it only comes from one weapon. You’re comparing apples and oranges.

Leo G.4501:

scerevisiae.1972:

I might add I think it’s pretty silly that warrior has more long range (1200) weapons than ele.

Warrior has 26 ranged skills in total. Ele has 55 not including utilities, transformations or downed skills.

Do you realize this has nothing to do with what the person posted?

Mightybird.6034:

Laraley.7695:

I was referring to the part that he was complaining you weren’t running one. And I’m telling you that no matter what people think of some builds they’re still happier to see them on their teams, since it’s best to play. How is that not relevant?

I wrote that before I saw your post. Don’t assume I’m talking to you because of post order. I didn’t reference your name at all. Was talking to the guy who thought I was complaining about any sort of balance.

This was just a huh that’s pretty funny. This is the ele forum, not a balance forum. Can have other posts about eles -_-

That’s what I had to assume since you didn’t use the reply.

Anyways, I’m not saying you can’t. All I’m saying is the fact it’s natural people act like this. Not saying I agree with it.

I was referring to the part that he was complaining you weren’t running one. And I’m telling you that no matter what people think of some builds they’re still happier to see them on their teams, since it’s best to play. How is that not relevant?

That’s because people expect you to play meta builds in ranked, which is understandable.

Liam McColgan.7689:

Yes i do believe staff ele requires more skill than d/d ele.

Lol no.

/15 No’s.

Just the fact you can click on staff ele and still be in Go4 cup finals proves you wrong.

Orpheal.8263:

I think it really can’t be THAT bad to nerf D/D in favor of making Scepter, Staff and Focus more worthful to be used…

People won’t start using underpowered weapons just because you nerf the only viable one.

Simply a placeholder.

Tskales.2804:

“Tempest warhorn needs…”

…to be replaced with sword.

Adding salt to the wounds.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Tempest-Beta-Feedback-Thread/first

For me it’s: Remove it and come up with a different elite spec.

barbie.9576:

i personally enjoy not smashing my face against the keyboard as much as standard dd ele but to each their own

Except tempest has basically nothing to do with that. It’s a terrible elite spec and most people know it, time for the devs to find out.

I now get the idea why you were being insulted, tough.

1. Tempest (Overall): 1
2. Traits: 1
3. Warhorn: 1
4. Overloads: 1
5. Healing Skill: 2
6. Utilities: 1
7. Elite Skill: 1
8. Animations & sound effects: 2

Exedore.6320:

Laraley.7695:

Tempest is terrible.

If you’re an attunement face-roll ele, maybe. Tempest emphasizes risk/reward. It may not be totally there on the reward part, but the concept is solid.

Lol, sure it does. It only has a terrible desing, completely useless mechanics, such a bad trait line, weak utilities and warhorn. Theres’s very little good about the spec. It brings nothing new to the class and actually using it would be a downrade from what ele already as, but keep tinking it’s good, at least not everyone will hate it.

For pve: Less dps.
For pvp: Les dps and less survability.

But ye, it’s awesome.

Exedore.6320:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Now if your playing tempest… gtfo

Tempest isn’t that bad.

Tempest is terrible.

It’s a simply bad desing, even if you just focus on trying to overload in air, you will be able to do so only once cca 13 seconds at most. Not really useful, is it?

emendez.3705:

elite sucks but its the best option compared to other current elites eles has.

Except it is not due to the fact you will be stuck with useless trait line and overloads. And also just because it’s one of the worst skills ever implemented.

I find it quite amusing that they’re asking for specific feedback when there is tons of material on the ele forums. Oh well, they would actually have to visit them for once.

And all these suggested nerfs wouldn’t be needed if they just toned down burning, might stacking, shaved some durations of boons here and there and ele would be fine. There is a very thin line between ele being strong and underpowered. We saw it not that long time ago when it was gettin replaced by soutbows.