Guild Wars 2

Delryn.7235:

TheGuy.3568:

I am sorry to say this but when the kitten did gamers get so lazy that failing a couple of times equals I need a manual? It is like if you don’t get a trophy it doesn’t matter. I do not know if you guys know this but their was time where you did a boss dungeon puzzle and you literally had to figure it out and that was half the challenge. Want your loots? Work for it.

Yeah there was also a time that games gave you information within the game itself.

The main complaint here isn’t “too hard, need nerf”, it’s how badly the information is given to players within the game.

I would love to learn and work hard towards whatever goal in game but that’s kind of tough when you’re thrown in the middle of the fight with little to no information on what to do.

Decent guide to player damging him.

If you take time to read the meta achievements you’ll see what you need to protect. From my first run where I got there with 5 minutes left we learned to protect the turrets and that whoever is on the turrets needs to be on their A game. They can get rid of the poison and keep his stacks of skales off. Range DPS is smarter AoE is the best. CC is best reserved for the adds and as I learned do enough DPS and you can kite them off the turret. The ‘waves" he has in the water that knock down can be dodged forward to not get hit or you can jump and not get hit. Eventually with some good commanders and guilds this kitten will be cake walk. So while you spam 1 realize some players are actually working to figure this out. In the long run you’ll get your guide…from them.

You additionally have this.

I am sorry to say this but when the kitten did gamers get so lazy that failing a couple of times equals I need a manual? It is like if you don’t get a trophy it doesn’t matter. I do not know if you guys know this but their was time where you did a boss dungeon puzzle and you literally had to figure it out and that was half the challenge. Want your loots? Work for it.

Anet should have figured out a work around for conditions by now period. It has been a year so there really isn’t a reason this should not have a work around by now. Those guys are smart and creative no reason this should still be an issue. That being said you have option and various builds use them. Not all fights can be melee’d so you bring a ranged weapon. Not all fights are condition friendly so you bring another set. I understand your build is not optimized for direct damage but concession must be made till a solution comes.

@OreoWolf read OP lol. “solo/group pve and some WvW.”

That being said there are lots of variations though generally the point is to maximize might gain in some way shape or form. If you have no strong boon duration in most cases it would be best to put the points elsewhere.

My personal build uses rifle and hybrid stats. You can run it whatever way you like though it is best to make sure you are keeping your might stacks up.

Basic build

Put another elixir in the last spot or utility skill.
Last 10 points are up to you.
From a general standpoint since you’ll have many boons as it is boon duration can be better than might duration solely but ymmv.

6/6 strength runes is not necessary or suggested.

Sylentir.8913:

Am I the only one that likes the current form of Elixir X? I swear, it’s awesome. Take two good elites, and put them on shorter cooldowns than the actual classes they came from.

You are not. The issue is so many engineers do not use it or get it. Looking for a buff where one is not needed.

Incurafy.6329:

A post filled with assumptions, excellent. I’m not even going to bother replying to that, sorry, I can already tell that it will evolve into a 2 page argument that goes around in circles.

Actually your reply to my first post was filled with assumptions as well. 2 pages is very unlikely (though I respect your choice). I would eventually just stop caring and let you continue with your own thoughts. Generally speaking all post are filled with opinions so it is very hard to convince someone they are wrong or that you are right as they are trying to do the same to you. In either case the anti stealth is going to be part of the game for some period of time.

This is one of the best suggestion I have heard in a while. Honestly it really is the chock factor of disappearing in front of their eyes that does it. That being said even this would need to be in moderation.

Fortus.6175:

The problem arises when the thief has D/D and can burst you for 8-10k hp without absolutely no counter. Aegis wont block the damage nor reveal them, blocks wont work either. Basically backstab is a guaranteed 10k burst that if you are an ele (12k hp) or a guardian (12k hp too)

I am going to say a couple of things here. I am going to try to keep this short and very civil.

DD has been the hardest hit build for thieves over the last ten months. DD burst thieves have seen some of the hardest (but in many cases appropriate) nerfs so far in the game maybe save engineer. Many of those players migrated the D/P as the meta shifted that way and to S/D as it was popularized and buffed. DD is actually one of the lesser played thief specs now a days. And they guys who still get those numbers are truly glass. They aren’t critting mugs anymore and the classes around them have literally been buffed in many cases. The people you see playing glass DD now a days are actually some of the better players. Many of them have stuck with builds that are already outdated and out played by the common builds you will see now a days.

You are complaining about a bygone build that doesn’t have endless evades that will not rip your boons, that does not have unstoppable stealth. It is the easiest build to counter play among all thief builds. It is not S/D where you have your dodge, S/P with blinds and an evade state, it is no P/D which can build tanky and kite forever, it is not D/P with blind and stealth that can barely be stopped. It is pure utilitarian DPS with 2 skills that are almost useless. Losing to this build is the equivalent of getting out played by the most kitten thief build there is now.

I not telling you this with anger but after watching the last 10 months even advocating for nerfs to thief burst myself with my first main being a thief I find these complaints ridiculous and short sighted. I am not going to call you a noob or tell you learn to play but looking at the big picture I am actually surprised DD hasn’t been buffed yet.

Thanks for reading.

Incurafy.6329:

TheGuy.3568:

IMHO stealth should have some counter play.

But stealth already has counterplay. Dodge CnD, interrupt HS through BP with any CC, spam AA while they’re in stealth and use it to predict where they are before placing AoE’s and PbAoE’s, and finally, dodge their Backstab or use a block if you have one available on your shield (a lot of people do). There are tons of things you can do to counter a Thief, and none of them are as cheap as a utility skill that counters a core mechanic directly.

And this gets back to the core issue that has been debated for I do not know how long. Anybody says anything about thief is too much from OP or just too much work to counter and forum thieves lose it (tbf warriors ele every class does this). Through the rose tinted glasses of many thieves stealth is perfectly fine. The problem is in almost all mmo games stealth itself is a problem. Counter play to stealth not the DPS that comes with it is literally knocking someone out of stealth. It isn’t even more complex than that.

CnD as I have stated in the past has great counter play. If the thief misses CnD with its obvious animation then they are in trouble. Only pure spike builds could even be considered an issue and atm they have been nerfed into the ground.

BP D/P has no real counter. Most stun skills are melee and they blinded you with the cast so. Any counter leaves the person countering vulnerable and beside warrior not many other classes have interrupts quick enough to stop the application (not that they don’t have them they aren’t quick enough so before you write a response with 20 different skills and traits with daze pay attention). What you are really being asked to do is stand in the field and hopefully interrupt the cast by getting hit. The type of aoe you talk about really belongs to one class and that is necro (once again I know other classes have lots of AoE but this is about speed).

BS has counters like all melee skills it suffers from people walking away etc. Not many classes have shields (3) and only 2 use it primary in PvE and it is barely for the block. You dont usually have to dodge a backstab but keep moving and in many cases the thief will not catch up to use it. That being said it is like dodging any melee DPS skill so it is not really an issue.

Lets not get into great detail over the healing and the utility skills that stealth. In any case there is no real counter play to the stealth itself. I can tell you right now in the hands of an experienced player stealth is not an I win button but it is a you can not and will down me button. What having some (not a lot) anti stealth skills will allow other classes to deny some thief builds it’s primary access to everything. Implemented right it will up the meta and make the class better for it.

Right now stealth in many builds is access to main DPS, condition cleansing, and combat passive healing. Many other builds have these things. However most (not all as some do things we can not even imagine) can be interrupted or stopped with proper dazes/stuns etc. The issue is so many thieves run D/P S/D SR with enough dodging and mobility to stop most efforts to do this while never really being denied of stealth. Deny stealth as long as it is not spammed allows counters to stealth stopping these things from happening.

It isn’t about denying the DPS but the difficulty for fighting something you can not see. There is an inherent imbalance there not at the class level but at the player level. It is as simple as you can not see me but I can see you.

I do not see this as something to be scared of even playing DD I am going to be honest it is not even a test of skill at this point. It such a small bit of meta change like stability to stuns, ripping boons to boon duration builds, melandru to conditions and they are putting it on the class that it is easiest for us to down. This is not 4 sec revealed all the time. It is giving one class the capability to stop you from entering stealth every 40 seconds. Not a big deal and likely there should be more of it so we can expose the classes utter reliance on it.

TLDR

Stealth has no true counter play. Things that we do from stealth has come counter play but stealth itself does not as no skills knocks you out of it or stops you from getting into it.

the way I see it limited anti stealth isn’t really going to be an issue. However, this might push D/D power builds further back. Not a complaint just an observation. If stealth gets hit hard then thief meta in WvW will just shift more heavily toward evasive builds (sort of has already). If that happens there is chance that other things might be buffed for thief to provide more options in the play style. All that being said. Anti stealth on one skill that isn’t that useful should not have all that much of an impact. IMHO stealth should have some counter play. If this is the introduction then we will have a better idea if they will keep it or roll it back like 4 sec revealed.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Sic….repetitive

Umm

Superior rune of lyssa

You have got to brush up on your set knowledge or use the wiki.

(6): When you use an elite skill, lose all conditions and gain all boons for 5 seconds.

Is what i was talking about, If you have no conditions, how do you gain Boons? So again, whats so great about it?

First off it still always and continually boils down to the same suggestion. Find other players and hunt down a class with an elite you like. I just going to tell you its dumb. It is a bad, terrible, ridiculous, and stupid idea. This is your elite skill not thief steal. It is the game changer tide turner big one time skill not the Pokemon I chose you warrior (ohh crap no warriors around) skill. I should not have to ever rely on another player being logged on so I can use my elite. It is a bad idea not even worth arguing over so respond or not doesn’t matter. It is not even worth discussing anymore.

The fact you cant get it to work for you essentially means you do not know how use it.

Lyssa btw gives you every boon in the game for 5 seconds base time. Does not require conditions it just works as a full cleanse too. Brush up on your build knowledge or read other threads beside your own before you comment. Just because a response is there doesnt mean you need reply. Rune of Lyssa page 2 engineer forums not even that old.

Honestly my build will stay the same. HGH hybrid rifle/nades should still be working fine.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TheGuy.3568:

Do you know when I use elixir x the most? Solo roaming. You know the main reason I use it in zerg? CC. I do not need to hunt down a class get their elite and then use it. The 2 I have are great all on their own. You are literally suggesting for WvW always running around with a group making sure it consist of classes you want the elite from. I am sorry but that idea is bad really bad. the elite is fine as it is. Every complaint before this has to do with it not being our own yours is just pointless. If you do not get how to use it and how good it is that is your issue but the skill is fine as it is. It doesn’t even matter if you disagree they wont change it into the skill you suggest. End of story.

You are pulling a Daecello but you seem not to know when to stop.

How so? Do you start in WvW when you log in? As i said you can use the Elite and take the one you want into WvW, look at places like LA plenty of people, Plenty of people in WvW as well – so you 100% of the time are in WvW and then you are ALWAYS alone? If so, then yes this change wouldnt be good for you.

HOWEVER – if you spent even the smallest amount of time in LA before logging WvW or even spend 1-2minutes with a zerg then this would be great. We could get some other Elites for healing if you are support, condition if you are condition and such.

I am NOT suggesting that you would need to run around with a certain group of people, as i have said you can use in PvE such as in Lions Arch where ALOT of people just stand around doing nothing and then take that Elite into WvW and keep it until you decide that you would like to change it and just need like 1second cast time on an ally to get the one you want

Strange – have i said i dont know how to use it? No, i would just like more options what is so wrong with that How would this help you if say you are a condition build? what if you are a Heal/support build? other then the Knockbacks (wasted if they have stability) then what are your options with it?

First paragraph find other players and hunt down a class with an elite you like.

Second paragraph find other players and hunt down a clas with an elite you like.

Third paragraph Forced PvE in order to find other players and hunt down a class with an elite you like

Fourth paragraph skill doesn’t work in my build thus it needs a change to suit me. The elite should have no counter play.

“Strange – have i said i dont know how to use it?”

“So i have decided that i want to give Elixir X a chance, having been disappointed in it in the past and i was wondering what traits actually affect it and what would be the better traits to take along with it to buff it up as much as possible”

Edit:

Obscure One.4357:

Obscure One.4357:

Step 1 trait fast acting elixirs, potent elixirs, and HGH
Step 2 equip a valk set of lyssa and rifle
Step 3 use Elixir U right before Elixir X
Step 4 Enjoy God Mode Every 84 Seconds!

How would it be “god Mode”? Doesnt U increase damage you take by 25%
Lyssa doesnt seem that great, if you have no conditions they you get no boons

Umm

Superior rune of lyssa

You have got to brush up on your set knowledge or use the wiki.

ellesee.8297:

i don’t like elixir c in an hgh build because if you’re running an hgh build, you’re most likely running 409 as well. that’s plenty of condi removal already. i’d take s or r instead.

Well if we are talking about getting the best out of it then you honesty would do more than I described but generally you can run just 2 (H and B ) and be ok. That being said R is not good CD is too long and not all that useful beside the toss. S is great but is is your escape button and wont factor into you might stacking plus the toss has a long CD. If you are about the might stacking and maximizing DPS it is still C Also if you carry C you can drop 409 and take potent elixirs (pushing your might stacking even further). But to each their own.

Personally I only run B and H and use my last slot for RB. However in a dungeon it would be best to use C instead and optimize your DPS.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Chaba.5410:

I use Elite Supplies, Fast Acting Elixirs, HGH, and 409 with Elixir X.

how many Elixir skills do you take? i currently have B and X so not sure if HGH – that gives 1 stack of might would be really worth it, does it work on weapon skills that say they are Elixir as well?

tool belt elixir skills (toss) grant 1 stack utility 2 stacks last 20 seconds at base. Elixir grants 2 just like any utility skill. Does not effect elixir gun skills at all. Wki. On a general note hgh builds generally try to maximize might duration using b and toss b (random) you get a might stack lasting 30 seconds. Using 20% x 3 might runes or 15% x 3 boon duration runes you are looking at 52.5-57 seconds of might off those skills and 35-38 seconds of might from hgh and sigil of battle. Either way you need short CD elixirs and toss elixirs to maximize your might gains so generally that’s H B & C.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TheGuy.3568:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TheGuy.3568:

Is more RNG really what is needed?

How would it be adding MORE RNG?

….Sigh you accuse me of not reading. Did you even read your own OP when you wrote it? You steal an elite based on who’s around you ie it’s random. An option of 2 elites or 8 where you have no clue what you will have access to at any given time. You literally have to find a class you want the elites from target them then steal it. If their is no class x around you you have no access to that elite. Dude stop arguing and go back to the drawing board as this idea is simply bad. Ask Anet from another better elite to replace the unused and unwanted mortar rather then trying to mess with an elite that works with many other builds but not your own.

“where is the “more” RNG from that? It has none. Unless you are counting finding someone from a specific class – that is why i would say you could use the skill on allies – As you can see the class they are as well.”

I wouldnt really think that its that bad, When do you not see plenty of pretty much any class? You can use it on Allies and Enemies, You can use it in PvE and then keep that Elite when you go into WvW as well and it only resets your currently picked Elite based on:

1) Resetting it yourself
2) Logging Out

I dont quite see your problem, the 2 current Elites would stay and you would get to CHOOSE what one you would like, it would also add more options for various other builds – such as support, healing and such.

Do you know when I use elixir x the most? Solo roaming. You know the main reason I use it in zerg? CC. I do not need to hunt down a class get their elite and then use it. The 2 I have are great all on their own. You are literally suggesting for WvW always running around with a group making sure it consist of classes you want the elite from. I am sorry but that idea is bad really bad. the elite is fine as it is. Every complaint before this has to do with it not being our own yours is just pointless. If you do not get how to use it and how good it is that is your issue but the skill is fine as it is. It doesn’t even matter if you disagree they wont change it into the skill you suggest. End of story.

You are pulling a Daecello but you seem not to know when to stop.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TheGuy.3568:

Is more RNG really what is needed?

How would it be adding MORE RNG?

….Sigh you accuse me of not reading. Did you even read your own OP when you wrote it? You steal an elite based on who’s around you ie it’s random. An option of 2 elites or 8 where you have no clue what you will have access to at any given time. You literally have to find a class you want the elites from target them then steal it. If their is no class x around you you have no access to that elite. Dude stop arguing and go back to the drawing board as this idea is simply bad. Ask Anet from another better elite to replace the unused and unwanted mortar rather then trying to mess with an elite that works with many other builds but not your own.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TheGuy.3568:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TheGuy.3568:

ellesee.8297:

elixir x is already good. in pvp. with power builds.

^This. And don’t we a see a thread like this once a month?

Surely that says something. Because it works in ONE mode doesnt mean that it works in them all. Strange thing is, people saying no when it wouldnt actually change being able to get Tornado and Rampage but ADD to that, allowing for different builds – Like if you are condition – use it on a Necro and get Plague, Support and use it on a Guardian for example.

…..Sigh works in Spvp, WvW, and PvE. Is more RNG really what is needed? At the same time you really think they will remove RNG from elixirs? And elites do not have to work well in every build. Your complaint for condition thief is pointless as you suggestion would nerf some power builds. Which would make not a lick of sense. Works fine as is.

Maybe actually READ my idea, it would remove ALL RNG from it, so how would it be adding more? – You simply use it on someone from another class, you get given that class elite, cool down starts when you use the elite

where is the “more” RNG from that? It has none. Unless you are counting finding someone from a specific class – that is why i would say you could use the skill on allies – As you can see the class they are as well.

“Works in” and “Good in” are 2 very different things….

Perhaps you should do the same before you rant (read the bold text). Additionally “works in” is something you said. I said it was “fine as is” so….

digiowl.9620:

On that elixir stealth thing, how does it interact with acidic elixirs?

If we toss it on ourselves, will we break stealth if the explosion hurt anything?

Looking forward to try the improved GT mode. Just wish it was not nearly a month away…

Depends when the damage is dealt. If it is dealt on stealth then no issue. If right after yeah it will put you in revealed. Generally though if they happen at the same time stealth will activate and no reveal.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TheGuy.3568:

ellesee.8297:

elixir x is already good. in pvp. with power builds.

^This. And don’t we a see a thread like this once a month?

Surely that says something. Because it works in ONE mode doesnt mean that it works in them all. Strange thing is, people saying no when it wouldnt actually change being able to get Tornado and Rampage but ADD to that, allowing for different builds – Like if you are condition – use it on a Necro and get Plague, Support and use it on a Guardian for example.

…..Sigh works in Spvp, WvW, and PvE. Is more RNG really what is needed? At the same time you really think they will remove RNG from elixirs? And elites do not have to work well in every build. Your complaint for condition thief is pointless as you suggestion would nerf some power builds. Which would make not a lick of sense. Works fine as is.

Swagg.9236:

All the people having a cry about Elixir X probably play pistol main-hand.

ellesee.8297:

elixir x is already good. in pvp. with power builds.

^This. And don’t we a see a thread like this once a month?

Iarkrad.8415:

Lyssa has always been one of the less useful runes. For almost any task, there is always a better rune.

My apologies to the Lyssa fanatics i might have just offended.

There is truth in that. That being said on thief and warrior there are builds that do well with lyssa runes.

“Stun breakers now break blowouts and launch as well”

……sigh

My real question is with the reduction plus melandru wtf happens to conditions in wvw?

Edit

I will say though I know I shouldn’t say it. But looking at those patch notes I see a lot of warrior love for nerfing stuns that tiny bit.

Ohh and overall the patch looks pretty good for us.

Player Character.9467:

TheGuy.3568:

If somebody was only dps and had no support then those dps groups would have 0 might stacks, never have fury, use 0 of the class specific buff mechanics, attempt all skips without swiftness, never use vulnerability, etc. They would attain substantially lower dps. Support isn’t just about healing/protection/aegis, you’re confusing defensive support with support in general.

Not really. Many classes can stack might on their own and there are very few things outside the regular build needed to do this. You are over exaggerating things for effect. No might? No fury? (your’e joking right?) For example I could run full dps nades on my engineer and still give high vulnerability stacks some swiftness and some might. Same with my warrior. Same with elementalist etc etc. Offensive boons fly around but you are correct some builds excel at giving them and still at the end of the day they invest nothing into support stats. Now do you understand? You are confusing support with DPS boosting a common mistake but a mistake none the less.

BTW the example you give is not support but maximizing DPS. A DPS group maximizes DPS (obviously). Even swiftness (which moves you to targets faster over the course of a dungeon) adds to the speed. If you consider might stacks support you need to widen your scope. That DPS tunnel vision has many of you blind to the bigger picture.

to summarize do not put lipstick on the DPS pig and call it support.

Edit:

It needs to be reiterated that support isn’t really necessary (which you actually illustrate in your post). It isn’t something to get angry or argumentative over. No one runs it because it is inefficient. That is a fact not a complaint. That is the situation. As long as you have yourselves convinced that the little support you bring to your DPS build is equal to running a support build then no progress can be made. Like I said before in terms of what players need the dungeon community is fine as is. If players need gear there are better and faster ways to get it. Same with loot and karma.

Midnight Gypsy.9360:

Until they come out saying that an enemy race or a minor race will be playable I will not believe it. The choices are Largos, Tengu and Kodan as the first new races. I was not just talking about undead, but Krait , Centaurs and so on. Until Anet somehow promotes them as a non enemy race, or promotes the minor races as equal to the playable ones they wont be playable. The races I said are not viewed as a minor race or an enemy race making them much more likely to be playable due to not being labeled for a pacific role in the game already, but existing. Could that all change? Yes, but not before Anet uses what they still have. The Char were an enemy race, but lo 250 years later and a new game they are playable.

Minor races you have point but, about enemy races it doesn’t even matter. Why you ask? Because each major race has a group that consist of itself as the enemy. Flame legion for Charr, Nightmare Court Sylvari, Bandits (and others) for Humans, Sons of Svanir for Norn, and the Inquest for the Asura. Aetherblades consist of each playable race and they are an enemy faction. No promotion is needed to non aggressor at all. I think the devs will do as they said, Whatever it seems the player base wants they will put in the game.

CelebrityX.7014:

TheGuy.3568:

CelebrityX.7014:

TheGuy.3568:

Champion Zerg.

Open to all classes, builds, and levels in the area.
Give PvE commanders something to tag up for.
Highly profitable.
Requires community interaction and cooperation in open world.

Ruins Jormag on some servers but you can guest smaller ones.

I don’t see how it ruins Jormag. Even if I’m in the zone and not champ farming I never do Jormag, it’s not worth my time.

Uhmm if other players (not you since you do not do Jormag and would sit in the area when people want access to him thus taking up a slot) want to complete the Jormag event and can not due to the area being filled in part due to the champ zerg the yes it does ruin the event for some. Some player still want their celestial weapons and Jormag like other world events provides loot that helps with that. Additionally even if a player just wanted to fight the boss just to fight the boss they should be able to do that as they paid for access to the content just like you did.

BTW there are more people playing then just you yourself.

(sic…nonsensical anger) If by some chance you want to do Jormag and cannot because you are put in an overflow (for whatever reason) there is a little thing called guesting you might want to check out

EDIT: By your logic if I’m on a map and a world event pops up that I don’t want to partake in I should have to leave the map so someone can take my spot….I don’t think so. That request is pretty selfish imo.

Hurt much? That being said you don’t read either. Next time you want to make a point and quote someone read what they said. And yes by my logic you are selfish. Did you miss that? 3 – 4 hour wait vs gathering you can get when you get back with no time barrier. Or you could just do in the overflow with no penalty (unlike Jomag).

CelebrityX.7014:

TheGuy.3568:

Champion Zerg.

Open to all classes, builds, and levels in the area.
Give PvE commanders something to tag up for.
Highly profitable.
Requires community interaction and cooperation in open world.

Ruins Jormag on some servers but you can guest smaller ones.

I don’t see how it ruins Jormag. Even if I’m in the zone and not champ farming I never do Jormag, it’s not worth my time.

So……..next time read or just do not comment :-)

Lets not do the whole forum battle thing you win and I do not care. Please do not bother quoting me over your nonsense in the future.

CelebrityX.7014:

TheGuy.3568:

Champion Zerg.

Open to all classes, builds, and levels in the area.
Give PvE commanders something to tag up for.
Highly profitable.
Requires community interaction and cooperation in open world.

Ruins Jormag on some servers but you can guest smaller ones.

I don’t see how it ruins Jormag. Even if I’m in the zone and not champ farming I never do Jormag, it’s not worth my time.

Uhmm if other players (not you since you do not do Jormag and would sit in the area when people want access to him thus taking up a slot) want to complete the Jormag event and can not due to the area being filled in part due to the champ zerg the yes it does ruin the event for some. Some player still want their celestial weapons and Jormag like other world events provides loot that helps with that. Additionally even if a player just wanted to fight the boss just to fight the boss they should be able to do that as they paid for access to the content just like you did.

BTW there are more people playing then just you yourself.

Zelyhn.8069:

Here in gw2 the 5 members of the group are 60% dps, 20% survivability and 20% support. I think it’s only logical that we invest most in our characteristic that pays out the most.

At the end of the day that is still 5 players running full zerk gear. That really needs to get through. No matter how support your build is that is still 5 players running the same stats on the most expensive part of any build with the most opportunity cost. So while your break down (those percentages came out of no where so…..) might have some truth the situation is that DPS is king in dungeon meta.

Dungeons are just another way to get loot so I do not think this is major issue besides farming which has been nixed. Not really worth a full blown debate over as much of the pop has moved onto champs for their farming and it provides exactly what is missing from dungeons. An open door policy (can not be kicked or kept from content based on the community and it views). When it comes to the most important part of most players reasoning for doing anything (the loot) dungeons are far down on the list. This is a good thing. Much like Teq until the contents difficulty is boosted, stats worth bringing diversified, and the other blaring issue (kicking) is dealt with there isn’t much room to complain or demand changes. Anet already provided an alternate more lucrative route.

Bright.9160:

TheGuy.3568:

Organized groups use support but not support stats which is kittening stupid since those stats are on gear. Not the groups fault but a key design fault. Lets not get this mistaken most organized groups run 5 dps and just happen to have a class or 2 that has support built in that doesn’t require an sort of stat investment. You are not playing support. You are DPSing and tossing in support when it is absolutely needed. OP has point but it is not a community problem.

So, we’re supporting, but not supporting?

Basically. Nothing all that complex about it. The builds are designed to maximize DPS while tossing in support as needed none of which requires support stats. There is no trade off and in many cases while limited support makes runs smother it is not necessary. Like I said it is not a community issue and if the truth is not particularly nice to hear then take that up with Anet. I got no issues with players doing whats right for the team but the complaint is valid.

Edit:

Your question might read better like this because that how responded to it lol.

So we are supporting but not support?

In response to your actual question. Not answering that question as it makes no sense.

Champion Zerg.

Open to all classes, builds, and levels in the area.
Give PvE commanders something to tag up for.
Highly profitable.
Requires community interaction and cooperation in open world.

Ruins Jormag on some servers but you can guest smaller ones.

Organized groups use support but not support stats which is kittening stupid since those stats are on gear. Not the groups fault but a key design fault. Lets not get this mistaken most organized groups run 5 dps and just happen to have a class or 2 that has support built in that doesn’t require an sort of stat investment. You are not playing support. You are DPSing and tossing in support when it is absolutely needed. OP has point but it is not a community problem.

The main issue is a simple one thus I will keep this part short. In any game where you have no assigned class roles you will run into the issue where players (being logical) will try to clear content as quickly as possible to save time. When this happens more players will play dps roles vs support. Now a zerk build in this game no matter your class is going to give relatively kittenty support compared to a cleric build. The question to ask is how much support do you need? The answer not much as the game is not designed around it. Players will run optimal builds with optimal classes to save time and there is nothing wrong with that.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Now the real underlying issue here is that content is too simple and too geared toward dps. In no game should the general max dps spec be THE SPEC to run. Content should be hard enough that running that is for the risky players and the elites not the causal and clearers. It says something about the design of this game and its dungeons when 5 players with many stat option all run zerker. I can not blame the players but it reminds me why dungeons content is often forgotten in favor of open world. When there was cash to be had by running CoF many players (including myself) jumped at it. Now that it is gone many have moved onto Champ zergs and other content to gain loot. If dungeon content was strong and or challenging that wouldn’t happen.

“But Guy there are still people running fractals at a high level how can you say it is not challenging?” It might be challenging but it is not strong. The majority of players do not run fractals and the reasoning isn’t particularly complex. Fractals are repetitive, a grind, and give very limited rewards. Additionally as the content gets harder and survival time shorter the builds push in the zerker direction all over again.

Basically it breaks down to that in open world you can run whatever build you like and in many cases not running full zerker can be advantageous. In WvW the builds are so diverse that you can run any build you like with any stats and still be very effective. Dungeon content = Zerker content which bottlenecks builds.

XelNigma.6315:

Do you really want them to increase the amount of HP regen gives?

Yes and I would like it’s healing power scaling to be bumped also to 25%.

XelNigma.6315:

Do you really want them to take away cleave on melee attacks?

I think cleave is fine where it is in terms of melee weapon. I would like overcharge shot ot cleave though akin to rifle butt.

XelNigma.6315:

Do you want them to change all enemys into vets ,and vets to champs, and champs to legendarys?

Eventually with gear scaling they will have to bump the stats on mobs. That being said what your question entails would be too much but if we keep on a gear treadmill eventually something along this line will happen.

XelNigma.6315:

Do you really want them to give magic users a mana bar that they have to drink mana potions to replenish?

That wouldn’t work in this game due to the pace of game play and there being no “ammunition” what so ever.

XelNigma.6315:

See, I can ask random question that have nothing to do with the topic too.

You most definitely can but, my questions were not random. Perhaps you should read more carefully next time.

XelNigma.6315:

Do you really want them to increase the amount of HP regen gives?

Yes and I would like it’s healing power scaling to be bumped also to 25%.

XelNigma.6315:

Do you really want them to take away cleave on melee attacks?

I think cleave is fine where it is in terms of melee weapon. I would like overcharge shot ot cleave though akin to rifle butt.

XelNigma.6315:

Do you want them to change all enemys into vets ,and vets to champs, and champs to legendarys?

Eventually with gear scaling they will have to bump the stats on mobs. That being said what your question entails would be too much but if we keep on a gear treadmill eventually something along this line will happen.

XelNigma.6315:

Do you really want them to give magic users a mana bar that they have to drink mana potions to replenish?

That wouldn’t work in this game due to the pace of game play and there being no “ammunition” what so ever.

XelNigma.6315:

See, I can ask random question that have nothing to do with the topic too.

You most definitely can but, my questions were not random. Perhaps you should read more carefully next time.

DesertRose.2031:

The damage output of each profession’s “best” build doesn’t differ much from each other very much anyways, what’s more important is what besides damage those “best” builds add to the team, particularly damage boosts.

The Engineer’s issue is that his “best” build requires conditions, and it takes 7-8 seconds to inflict 20+ stacks of Vulnerability and ~20 seconds to inflict 20+ stacks of Bleed; in this time speed clear teams have already killed most foes so the Engineer isn’t very useful in that regard.

What the Engineer misses is a “good” direct damage option, a few buffs the Tool Kit could help out here.

You do realize you can run your basic nades build with zerker gear and be top tier DPS at range right? Forget if you close the gap and melee jumpshot and blunderbuss just to boost it more. The problem is that the speed clear as it is right now is pointless. There is no more strong CoF farm. The idea that everything must be cleared for speed is a waist. You want a world record go for it but that has little to do with the engineer. Fact is the class is so versatile that most players get caught up in the BS that engineers do not have good direct damage (here’s a secret we do). The issue is many players are still getting caught up with big pretty numbers vs DPS and that will not change.

All joking aside we could run builds with consistent fire fields for group might stacking, still have group condition clearing still stack vulnerability, and still be ranged most of the time.

Look assuming conditions are the best build is wrong imho. too many builds that are direct damage have passive condition overwrites. Condis simply are not the best build you can get out of engineer or any class for that matter outside PvP. If your PvE either go direct damage or hybrid that still leans toward direct damage. the miss conception that engineer does not hit hard is so strange.

Here are a few question.

Do you really want them to reduce the range on grenades?

Do you want them to increase the range on all ranged projectile sets including rifles and longbow for warriors, shortbow and pistol for thief, and longbow and shortbow for ranger?

Do you really want to challenge the reality of range in a game and not include infinite ammo as a complaint?

Does it even matter in a game?

Nice idea but

GTA V release date = September 17th

Half the devs won’t even be on to see it.

ukuni.8745:

I’m not sure how to take this comment, on one hand we are in quite a good place on the other hand there are class that are in a ridiculous position, so while I’d like to see more attention given to the engineer I think that more focus on other classes is in a way a buff for the engineer, and obviously there’s the bug issue that we all hate but we still have some viable builds (wvw we have a lot of viable builds) all in due time I guess, balance patch soon and it’s certainly been while so who knows how much attention Thayer have actually shown us but havnt given us

Like I said its not so much a complaint about balance but it feels like sometimes we literally get random buffs and random nerfs. No warning no meta issues just tossed out at us. I would love to think that they have got a guy who loves engineer and is working on whats broken and making power builds ever so slightly more viable (SD is fine). I think we are like guardians but I am not sure if they think we are actually Ok or just do not happen to notice that we are still around. I have not played this class for a full year like many of you but I have invested the majority of what I have in it. So now I am kind of wondering if anyone actually has there eyes on us or not. That the core intent of my question. I like where my build is. I do not need a buff. However i would love to know if some crazy nerf or buff is on the horizon.

I listened to this whole thing but, engineer is not once really brought up as the main topic of conversation. The closest thing I heard was how turret (like minions, and spirits) can gunk the field of vision both for the player and the spectator in PvP. Some times I wonder if they remember this class is around. I do not mean that sarcastically either. I literally mean that so many other classes have builds that are considered OP or UP to the point that they commands major attention that we are simply forgotten. Honestly it could be the low pop of engies. It just seems to me from time to time we are tossed a random nerf or buff and that’s it for 3 months with no communication. I do not say this with anger but I do end up wondering what plans (if any) there are for this class.

Not a, “The devs hate us!” rant just wondering if they remember us lol.

Chase.8415:

Excuse me?

I have spent over $1,000 in this game and I am predominately PvP.

Don’t judge PvP players for not supporting the game because that is a complete lie.

On what did you spend $1,000 pertaining to Spvp?

As long as the changes are Spvp only I think it is fine.

Depends on what they do. Atm things are already out of hand in PvE so I have no expectation that they plan to right that balance failure. That being said I hope they do account for this class. Often they simply balances and lets the chips fall where they will and balance again and do the same thing.

Deniara Devious.3948:

TheGuy.3568:

About your rifle comment who cares? Rifle is for CC and control. Rifle players know this. Most of you who do not use rifles and obviously do not. Our rifle pierces naturally, has limited aoe, and much better CC than warriors rifle.

Or really?

I have 1000 play hours as an rifle engineer and 400 hours as a rifle warrior.

Tell me how engineer rifle has better CC against a skilled opponent?

I know immobilize is more powerful than cripple

I know launch is more powerful than push

That was what your post boil down to. If you have 1k hours ( I have 336 btw) as a rifle engineer and have issues controlling a fight than there is something you need examine in your playstyle and timing. I am not going to tell you how to play your class but if your skills are not landing do not assume it is the same for everyone else. The CC skills are there. The self cc on OS is actually not bad is really useful. Not going into all this but tossing around hour played does not equal skill and understanding.

+1 OP signed

Hmm. When I take a a step back and look at how content has been added in other games over time i can’t help but think a lot of the complaints come from experienced gamers who simply do not enjoy the pace of here one second gone the next content. Personally I prefer it. Quick turn over and free patches mean even if a patch does suck (I personally didn’t do much of Dragon Bash because i did not like it) it will be gone in 2-4 weeks. This system makes more sense to me than the big content update where it could be a complete miss and just ruins the player bases expectation. Hit or Miss they are learning what works and what doesn’t work. What more can we ask for? As much as I can complain/comment on balance etc content here is a cut above but I think the general burnt out demeanor of the MMO pop kicks in and the complaints get rampant. Compared to where we were a few years ago (lets not even go into a decade ago) we are in a much better place.

You may not realize it but the game is actually heading in the right direction for the overall population. I remember when I would play free MMOs from PWI I would always wonder why others wouldn’t use their economy system. If you do not know it is relatively the same as ours (except better in places actually). Right now from the richest players to the cheapest ones everyone is in the RMT economy. For this reason it is hard to say how much they are pulling in as factually they could be pulling in F2P money from the gem store. It wouldn’t surprise me either. If that is the case than a quick expansion (which might hurt the player base) would just kill their gains. Think about it a sec. How much money have you tossed in the gem store? How many gold coins have you converted to gems? For many of you it is more than you paid for the game in the first place.

Nialiss.6459:

I’d love to see some end game content with maybe 10+ man dungeons
witch might require some party members to have a more tanky set-up or support set-up. At the moment all there is, is 100% pure zerker dps which is worse than the “trinity” ever was or could be.

You basically have this is higher end fractals tbh.

Angewaire.6319:

TheGuy.3568:

Chaba.5410:

Elixir X does not suck. I’ve seen engineers break up blobs and scatter the enemy almost entirely solo when used right, done it myself even.

QFT

However most players aren’t going to understand this. Elixir X is actually one of the best elites in the game if you use it correctly.

Really?
You reckon that funny moment in WvW when with your entire zerg You rush upon enemies, enter among them and pop up Elixir X hoping that “this time it shall be AoE tornado”…
…and instead You get a single target slow giant that is soooo easy to target, without any resistances, or extra heals.
You all that are so confident about engii being so kitten ’ good at anything do A TEST:
- go to PvP,
- pick a warrior, build it
- pick a rifle
- train with a golems
- do the same with engii + rifle
- compare damage output.
…And warrior is a HEAVY ARMOR class.

ps: someone mentioned that engii trait “incecndiary powder” is on ADEPT tier, while necro “dhuumfire” is on grandmaster…
Instead of making Yourself a completly ignorant just READ what You post- how many conditions does engii have ( except granade build) and now compare that to necro.
Answer is – necro goes slighly better while engii’s condition output is based on LUCK ( see elixirs).

Sigh…

No one runs into a zerg (note the word blob) but that is antics with semantics. In small fights it can be used as above. In a zerg you would be better off just sitting back and tossing nades so not really up for discussion.

BTW if you get juggernaut 2-> 4 -> 3 -> 5-> Spam 1. If you just want to run 3-> 3 you’ll have enough mobility to outrun most. Funny thing is most of the time I am hoping for juggernaut lol.

About your rifle comment who cares? Rifle is for CC and control. Rifle players know this. Most of you who do not use rifles and obviously do not. Our rifle pierces naturally, has limited aoe, and much better CC than warriors rifle. Your only concern is DPS thus you should play a warrior and no other classes as you will generally find yourself lacking.

Hybrid builds are fine imho. I run one with hgh which I think is the key to making up the gap.

Chrispy.5641:

TheGuy.3568:

Tom Gore.4035:

I read you the first time. My point was, it’s a crappy way of doing progression. Making everything super-grindy to get and then “give” you events where you can ease the grind.

It makes no sense, at all.

Compared to other titles this is not a grind. At least not a real grind. The way I see it this was shoring up the economy for what is about to happen. It is good because it is temporary and will be gone soon. While you may want innovative content each and every LW patch there are times where devs need to look at the pop and see what would be best for them. In this case a 4 week voluntary participation grindfest to shore up the wallets of the poor. It is a good thing that this happened. Yes it is boring an repetitive but it is lucrative and will usher in SAB which is challenging and fun. No matter your complaint this was good for the vast majority of the player base.

So what you are really saying is, Anet doesn’t care about new players?

Not really (not even sure how you came to that conclusion). Considering the current player base is several million strong I doubt I could even give an argument for new players besides the fact they can still get to where we are it will just take longer (as in the vast majority of MMOs). I do not work for Anet so I have no clue. That being said I wouldn’t really give 2 kittens as far as this issue goes. A player with a couple of thousand hours in game is not really going to work about the other player past PvP. given Spvp is a level playing ground and PvE is simple and rarely requires gear checks (past farming easy runs) it simply does not matter. There are huge gaps in the current player base that needed to be closed.

New players have access to a plethora of cheap exotics so I fail to see the point of your one line post.

Let me respond in kind.

Are you trying to say Anet shouldn’t care about the current player base that already bought the game?