This paladin build looks very intresting. Change the sigil for air or blood or leeching.
Condi removal might be an issue. You can try leadership rune here and run classic eather renewal. This will loose your main teamsupport skill but you are more of a damage dealer and 1:1 build annyway.
DS was a psycological trait that stopped condi classes, because they felt bad to get all thos “Invul” and had no way to win without power. It was the main change that made necro rise.
Long post and a lot of good stuff. In the end you need a dedicated person that is good in building such systems. Its a fulltime job including forum reading, network thinking, psychology and math (for me its statistics and must not be exact because i build self regulating systems). And this guy could get demands from marketing like elite has to be needed for selling, but never should someone intervene and change or override his decisions/work because its a complex system (unless he obvious is not capable at which point someone else must take over). I did it and overiding a singe point in a system i built can topple alot … And then the dev is blamed because his system does not work as intended. Here too many cooks ruin the meal.
Currently reapers are strong and mesmers can also realy hurt with condies.
But yesterday again i did see what a revenenat can do… Niffel due to some reason only the revenant an i (hybrid ele) reached mid. Usually bad but we downed one per 5 seconds. The damage was extreme. This 2:3 was over in about 20 seconds and it was power damage. Power damage especially in focus fire is superior unless you shoot into invuls or reflects …
And yes bring a strategy against condies or live that you might die on it. Its good that we don´t have only power viable (at least in a few classes). This brings diversity.
If i see two condi classes i switch to cleansing water and all three aura shouts ….
Tis build (the previous version) normaly has mirror image not portal. But portal is a main skill in PvP and i guess this is no option … And i fear removing signet of illusions would hurt much. If i take it instead of the disenchanter maybe but then the already low condi defence suffers. The teleport is clasical and good i know this…. Decoy or signet of midnight would also fit …. This build should do a lot damage and help with blinds.
Focus ele is often a bad idea. But it depends on the team composition.
Usually focus on one of my teammates is much better then focusing me (ele). If i am on guard you can focus me with three but the focus from my team will down someone much faster. I loose teamfights mostly as last man standing. I had it similar in WvW in 2:2 or 2:3 fights. Focus me you lose, focus my teammate you might win despite me healing. The only exception is necro focus. The boon corruption + prolonged condi spam/bomb from 2+ condi classes kills me after important cleaners and invul is on CD, which happens fast in this case.
FSG is such a great weapon i always use it in WvW. But its high cooldown kills it. I can´t use it in PvP due to this… In WvW after a fight i usually have those three minutes to recharge it ….
I also tried lava axe but the lost slot rarely pays off. I have 4 elements annyways.
So think i will try to learn playing mesmer again with the following variant.
when i tired mesmer last time in PvP it felt super squishy. But maybe because i tried viper XD. thanx for the advices. Well i usualy would like to add slow as active support and as another condition but if its so bad …
(edited by Wolfric.9380)
As written in my first post. I had been totalyl surprised how fast a warrior killed me. I think some kind of viper burst zerker build will do it. But i rarley meet one that does this.
I prefer stone heart and using sage. Shure not as necro resilient, but can absorb direct damage in earth well and ist does more damage (adds condi). Ist personal preference. And for the necros. When you kill them you don´t wait for cleanse CD´s ^^.
I like it exact the way it is. … Its my most loved skill and while i would trade obsidian flesh for somethign offensive i don´t want to change the wave. Also please not more synergies with water traits ….
The thief won´t kill me. He usually dies. I killed a thief in 5s. And most that case me when i disengage at 50% also die or run ;-). They only kill me when they are good and fully hit at the right moment like in my back while in a hard fight and out of earth. This +1 is what a good thief should do :-). And as i wrote. Mesmer for the win :-).
I play tempest. Not meta but still a lot support. The diffrence to meta is is i can kill quite fast but have less sustain.
I die when i get bursted not expecting it or reacting lazy. Especialy when i am hit out of earth. Usualy by 2+ but a warrior might do it in 1:1 … eh yes warrior for something ..
Reaper and Mesmer kill me. I have to play perfect or get werecked by the codsispam, even with a lot of cleanses …
Anny other 1:1 composition is either a win for me or not worth attacking me. (not counting rarely played condi engi and condi trapper that brings huge cleanse and CC himself which are more dangerous).
So if you want to kill an ele i would go for the agressive meta mesmer …..
Scepter is a combination of burst and sustained condi damage at 900 range. This is a bit weired and the weak auto attacks let it fall behind dagger. You burst and then are in kitten because if traited for burst you can´t use the condi auto from earth to a useful extent and the other autos are also weak. If traited for condi you get a weak condi spec because you now have a large number of power skills but are speced for condi …. So if you go scepter there are two options for me : fresh air zerker/maurauder or a hybrid damage build. I like the hybrid and am one of the rarer eles often using sage in PvP. For PvE a burn build with scepter should also work.
While i agree that i want balance and diversity, accept that the old system is gone and elite specs are the core of a character. But i want that there is diversity in it. Elite has three traitlines + two out of four core lines each with also three traitlines. This alone is huge and if its focused to have a lot of diffrent builds for each elite, then its fine. Core should not fall back to unplayable but its not required to play diomond + with core. It would also impede the busines model.
Thanx for the detailed answer. The torch was there because it synergizes for the blind and would be a disengage or engage option. Also the burn from the phatasm will add nicely. But i understand that shield is good and better in teamfights. I am not bound on torch and never used it only used double sword before hot.
I see that mistrust is realy powerful better now. Still not shure if the clone on dodge might pay off.
Lost time has 1/4 internal CD. This sould only dampen the rate slightly when i use wanderer. But you are more experienced for shure.
For the disenchater: yes the cast time is the bad part … But this additional phantasm on 16s CD did work well till now.
I play ele, but i don´t want it back. But i woudl like a more flexible system annyway that splits weapon, armor and amulet.
Agree. I play ele main and i am only blamed for not rezzing. Usually when i decided to stomp for a rally and it did´t work as intendend … I play thief secondary, but i am far from competative with it. Maybe i should play it on foefire in unranked to see what happens … and get blamed XD.
I made the experience that in 9 of 10 battles on foefire, the side that dominated mid whiping the enemy there wins. Of course they move after breaking the oposition. A revenant should be available here.
Hi
1.) Most seem to use shield. Yes the block creating clones is nice but is it realy so much better then other offhand? Will torch be viable here as tactical cloak?
2.) I made a build long before current meta that is close what emerged now.
There i use dueling with two swords and trait for lower cooldown. This gives more summons and damage. Bad or a viable variant?
3.) I understand improved shatter fits especialy with Inspirations. But i would take Ineptitude if dueling with blinding dissipation is used. Or is improeved shatter still better? I doupt.
4.) When using dueling i have the clone on dodge. There are not this large number of interrupts. (Diversion and propably shield wave + fear from rune). I agree the 4 stacks will hurt but how much interrupts will land? Maybe without using nightmare and shield i never felt its to useful.
5.) I use berserker rune but its a non crono build at the moment. Straight forward more damage on both sides instead of duration. Good option?
6.) Would wanderer make sense?
7.) For shattering chronophatasma is good, but you already gain one clone on shattering fromillusionary reversion (respawing will overwite it?) and if you have a high crit chance is lost time a good option?
Here would be an option like i would try. Shure much more offensive, condi focused and low condi defence.
Thanx for answers in advance :-)
Greetings
Wolf
Maybe its still useful but on foefire mobility is not so impactful and being squishy also bad. You want to win mid with the strongest team composition possible. I had a great thief on foefire in the past too but this is rare. 9 out of 10 thiefs on foefire lost the match …. At leat this is my experience.
The thing is thiefs are not easy to play if you want realy be useful.
A good thief on the right map is great. (Please don´t use thief on foefire …).
Last match i had one that wrote in the chat i go far and anoy them. I did´t rant i just told him OK but don´t die …. He only died once the match and did a good job moving around on their side in niffel (far, creature, mid) and we won it.
It realy depends on the player. He has to be able to move fast and know where he goes. And he has to disengage. I always lough about the thief trying to kill me like running against a wall till dead. But i hoour the thief that realizes no way an moves on decaping or +1 elswere. A thief should have a second class (like scrapper) in his sleves and swap depending on map or enemy team. Such a thief is valuable. Bad or average thiefs that insist playing it on foefire or don´t care for their team bring the bad press to the class.
Warrior works fine without berzerker. And its kittened annyway XD.
This map is just straight forward win mid, control map afterwards and kill lord. Theres low tactics, lots of classes irrelevant and a pure stronger team(composition + fighting skill) blowouts. Its the most booring map. But its easy, fast and straight forward, which some might find fine.
It means that it has to be watched. It was quite clear that it adds to the reapers power and especially easy build choice without thinking.
Maybe not as written here, but a summoner that also makes use of counjures and focuses on one element would please me and propably many other. And it will bring another playstyle and a lot of builds not to hard to balace because you don´t have 4 elements at once.
It depends on the map. But more fights are lower then 4 or 5 on one side. It´s a lot spam but if you only spam you will loose.
I do not change class. I just can´t play other classes beside ele to a level i can compete in ruby or beyond and unfortunately the classes i trained a bit are thief and warrior and swaping to them is usually not an option. But i constantly adapt build depending on the team compositions. Yesterday i did see 3 necros and changed to sage full group cleanse and destroyed them ….
I said it from the begining that mercenary is critical. Shure more problems are in the classes themself but mercenary is a bit to solid no brainer.
Shure you can kill a merc necro. The diffrence is not very huge to carrion but it makes the necro more stable against power builds.
Yes. I can hold 1:1 with s/f quite well but a +1 when there is a necro or mesmer in the fight usually ends deadly for me quite fast. I can´t bunker a 1:2 as good as the meta ele to wait for our +x as soon as there is an offensive condi spamer on me.
But i can support a teamfight quite well and the option to fight ranged is very helpful there. So teamfight and 1:1 good and especiall in a 2:2 i shine. Outmanded the build falls back behind meta ele. The only thing i can stand outmaned is two full powerbuilds and even kill them if at least one is a glass cannon.
I play only tempest since hot. I have good success with a bit strange roaming build but its funny and works quite well.
Of course you can do changes like take diamond skin. And it can use dagger. I also swap food often running precision oil.
I also realy like nightmare rune here but its anoying klicking all 5 seconds for permaswiftness…. So i often run air signet.
(edited by Wolfric.9380)
I also prefer scepter over dagger. In melee i have overload to scare someone off. With scepter i can also fight from range and this helps alot to spread your team and not eating all the AOE. I go close if needed (wash the pain away) or the oportunity is good for an overload ride. But i also use sage often and this makes a diffrence too.
And yep its about forcing oponents to case you. You still heal your team from range.
And with sage i do significant damage. Ignoring that dragon tooth is painful because it burns hard.
(edited by Wolfric.9380)
This looks useable. Options i would consider when going written in stone.
Signet of fire + Rune of lyssa + Sigil of acuracy. For second sigil i would then take torment, generosity or doom.
Other option: berserker rune not undead.
Next option: Use diamond skin or stone heart, switch healing to aether renewal + cleansing flame and trait soothing disruption.
Without wash the pain away your teamhealing is very weak.
I gave up on written in stone and prefer wash the pain away and cleansing flame.
You want damage and enough cleanse and self sustain. This one might do it better.
Team will shake heads about dropped support but you will perform well 1:1.
(edited by Wolfric.9380)
This is the type of build i am going for and experimented much.
BUT. Your version has some flaws which will cost you fights.
Rune: While it looks great for burning, you can´t rely on it. If you realy want a condi rune pick nightmare (duration for many synergy reasons). Otherwise soldier is still top on tempest and you will need the condi clear.
Then utilities. Arguable flash is good but in this build i pick flash freeze (extra condition chill + protection)
Traits: In earth you live and die with protection. Go for elemental shielding! Same for geomancers training. You are dead without it in current meta. Its much more valuabe than the condi damage.
so more Synergies:
Tempest: You have nothign that synergizes with regeneration and no healing power. also lower auras. Here is the trick: Go Tempestous aria. Synergizes with Nighmare duration + its another condi and team damage mitigation + might. You want to damage not heal subpar.
Unstable coduit. This build does´t need it. Pick gale song. Another synergy. And yes it fires as shout triggering also aria and it saved me a lot. Speedboost instead of stun can be top.
Try it. Maybe you are surprised ;-).
But be aware that your teamsupport suffers compared to auramancer. But it can kill a lot also in 1:1. So its more 1:1 focused.
Thanx. I play no full meta auramacer but basically i am a tempest that can keep a team alive long enough to win.
1 and 3 was clear to me. 2 i am not shure. I usualy feel its good to keep 2 busy. On or offpoint but indeed it doesn´t always work . Your team might loose despite 4:3 or can´t make good use of the advantage….
I am one of the eles using sage on a regular basis. And it works well for me and i use fire traitline with earth and tempest. I adapt build before start and might go water. But it works well for me. And i usualy run 4 shouts and cleansing flame on my toolbar.
I am a fan of tempestious aria. When i don´t go water for more cleanse i use it. It synergizes with the shouts well. I keep oponets weakened which is active mitigation (and less doges). But its diffrent. I like lyssa but usualy run classic soldier. Did test a bit with sage + lyssa + acuray sigil but was not convinced. Running leadership over lyssa is often the better choice.
Well the main survivability comes from protection. We live and die with it….
And of course when necros bomb you cleanse right …..
I do go miles away from meta build. I am in ruby and my build is still successful. (Well its hard generally and constantly breaks anny win streak but i still hope i won´t go into the much feared MMr hell. Currently i have good fights in solo Q.
What do i do with my ele:
I paly condi with scepter… Strange yes. The build emerged last summer when i wanted to counter zerker meta. (with success).
It´s a tactical build fighting ranged and close if needed.
But i do something important: I look at the oposing team and change my build.
Rune is 90% soldiers. I did test svanir with success when i face a necro army …
I prefer offensive support. Wanderer works well with my tempestous aria setup. I destroy power compositions with it and if i see rangers + guards i smile …
The other setup is sage with diffrent cleanse load depending on necro/mesmer in oposing team. I wanted to play viper but this fails due to being a squish ball …
So i will always do much more damage then classic bunker ele but heal less. I can still keep a team alive if i have the right setup. When going wanderes/aria against 3 necros well .. thats usually a fail ^^.
So i always play ele and want to learn the class best. I like it. I don´t swap classes in pvp but i swap build!
While maurauder looks better then zerker for me the setup from Frowny is quite nice and about what i would do myself without tempest.
An for elite. In WvW its always FSG for me!
I alwys build myself and i build according to playstyle and wishes. Of course it should be efficient. I like to help with building when i get a description of what is wanted. (OK somtimes whishes won´t fit an efficient build).
I personaly use septer/focus and sometimes staff if a situaton in PvE or WvW demands it. But scepter is usually not recomended. It´s a personal preferende being able to fight ranged. The classic weapon set at the moment is dagger/focus.
In PvP i use soldier rune and switch sage/wanderer (yes wanders is exotic for ele but it surprises me constantly how well it works for me).
I have fun with sage + svanir rune when facing lots of necros XD but soldier is the top allrounder that spports the team too.
So for what game mode and what playstyle / picture in mind and propably skill level. I won´t suggest fresh air for a beginner :-). There staff fire is realy solid for PvE and WvW.
Greetings
Wolf
In PvP as tempest i always use rebound now. Its cooldown is OK and it synergizes. It´s not a good elite but useful.
For non tempest i always use the sword. It is our best elite but the long cooldown ruins it for PvP…. So i guess the elemental ist best for non tempest ….
I know… Distracted a moment, not swap/use right skill in time, go down, sowballs on team whiping and game lost …. And the ele gets blamed ^^.
Got some QQ ing when i did things right but not as expected. They do´t know that i am not standard ele and can do things like kill thief in a few seconds. Its very hard in solo Q because they don´t know i can take down nearly all power builds … I usually try to disengage a condi reaper unless i see hes bad.
Fully agree here. This is the core problem in PvP taking out the fun and exitement.
Nice post.
I did´t do analysis. It was quite clear that this system causes grief in a mixed environement.
Well i am a scepter ele myself and had neve been asked to change ^^. They luckily don´t know what i play. Scepter with wanderer XD. It performs very well. I am not the heal bot expected but i can still keep people alive. It strongly depends on the setup. Multiple necros are always a pain while thiefs, druids, guardians, scrappers are good matchups. Ele is stalemate and revenant and warrior depend on their skill and is mixed realy good beat me if not full zerker. But i change my setup if i see multiple necros …. I know my setup is not the best in necro world.
Burn from fire overload is usually huge. Sinister might do most damage with fire spec (burning precision) throwing in flame blast. But here dagger will do more.
Even in zerker the might + burn will add strong to fire camping doing more then air.
Hmm you paint it quite black for PvP. I play ele (tempest) and its not this bad. I would teat such a fresh necro with a couple of games appart and i support my team. Its as many already stated. Most eles on´t want to be full healbot bunkers. I play hybrid but when the team is expecting a cleric meta ele and i heal less it might have an impact. I can´t realy tell if my build can compete in legendary. In ruby it´t fine. The lack in coordination and random teams have much more impact and there it can matter much more to actually win that 1:1 in a reasonable time.
I would like to see a huge buff to one with fire to make fire aura and the trait useful …
Frost aura is OK. Quite often used by passives.
Agree water is crap if you don´t play water bunker. I don´t play meta and thus don´t use water. Earth is OK because of the extra stab. I use fire in PvP. It even might be my death ;-). Mostly used on a downed oponent. Air is a fine combat opener for me.
Hard for me to decide. I go for acuracy when:
I try out a build and don´t want to pay for air sigil.
My crit chance is low so i want more.
When i already reached about 50% crit rate i go for air.