Guild Wars 2

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

I am having plenty of fun on my thief. Then again, I don’t need permastealth.

You don’t play thief.

nagymbear.5280:

Zacchary.6183:

You don’t play thief.

So following you’re logic a perma stealth thief is the only way if you want to have fun? I play a s/p, sb thief and I’m having fun with it in wvw.

My charr guardian is a kitten. She likes to wear skimpy armors that show >99% of her tail.

So, by pointing out my belief that he has never played the thief and doesn’t know what he is talking about I am also saying that permastealth is the only way to have fun….

This is the exact reason people get trolled on thief forums.

nagymbear.5280:

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

I am having plenty of fun on my thief. Then again, I don’t need permastealth.

You don’t play thief.

So following you’re logic a perma stealth thief is the only way if you want to have fun? I play a s/p, sb thief and I’m having fun with it in wvw.

Where did you get that from? Seriously…

uknortherner.2670:

Banewrath.5107:

Still no valid reasons or arguments besides warcraft, I`m too poor, and balance issues that are already addressed and buying another game engine. Keep them coming.

Plenty of valid reasons, but you have simply decided that nothing less than mounts will do, no matter what other players think.

This.

Sanduskel.1850:

I am having plenty of fun on my thief. Then again, I don’t need permastealth.

You don’t play thief.

I feel that Shortbow > pistol/pistol because of the Shortbow’s AoE capabilities. Have you ever stuck a Superior Sigil of Fire on one and then spammed Cluster Bomb?

Explosions EVERYWHERE!

Banewrath.5107:

Still no valid reasons or arguments besides warcraft, I`m too poor, and balance issues that are already addressed. Keep them coming.

If you want mounts so bad, then buy another game engine, buy more server space, pay the devs to adapt GW2 to that game engine and then pay them some more to develop mounts.

NeroGuilt.4720:

stuff

It isn’t about destroying stuff. Its about having fun and right now thief players are not having fun. Every patch, the fun gets lessened or changed while the very unfun parts of this profession are not fixed.

This is why thieves are complaining.

Venoms suck and I would never recommend any of them.

Stx.4857:

Errant Venture.9371:

Stx.4857:

Errant Venture.9371:

Running a DD evade spam build while speccing for power is beyond dumb.

Sometimes experiments fail. Sometimes they yeild impressive results. Never hurts to be creative.

But thank you for being useless!

Useless? Lol just think for a minute and you don’t need to experiment. You’re burning initiative on a low-damage attack in order to spam evades…but then you won’t have initiative available to burst with. I’m halfway through a Ph.D. in physics, and if one thing’s for sure, you don’t waste time and resources doing a physical experiment when a thought experiment will yield the same results.

D/D is obviously designed as a condi skill, and anyone with an IQ above 20 can see that spamming it doesn’t make any sense for a power build.

Assuming it would be spammed instead of being used situationally is your first mistake. This build has tons of initiative regen, so its less of an issue than you’re making it out to be.

I’ve already tried it and I can tell you that using d/d for evades isn’t a good idea unless you plan on taking advantage of the bleeds. You can hybrid to deal damage as well as deal condition damage and still use dealth blossom as an Evade and Counter.

I do, however, believe that errant could have responded a little better.

If its meant for direct damage then using death blossom would be a slight waste of initiative because DB is weak damage-wise. You’de have to make up for it for evade utilities.

d/d conditions.

I only use it for the endurance refill.

No. Stop asking for them.

I think I have a right to complain.

I’ve played the thief since I started this game. I’ve theorycrafted and mathed the kitten out of every trait and every skill we have. I’ve racked up 1.2k+ hours on my thief and only spent 2% of those hours messing around in LA. I feel like I have mastered this profession because there is nothing else for me to learn.

I also feel like I have the right to call out stubborn scrubs when they post something ignorant (because they need it) in regards to this profession. However, I just recently got a 1.5 day suspension from the forums for doing that a bit too much. So now instead of arguing I am just going to let this class die because I only see overhaul/deletion in its future.

I’ve moved onto warrior and am enjoying the ability to easily kill things 7 levels above me.

gebrechen.5643:

But he is almost right. After warrior thief is still the most versatile and preferable class for wvw. It’s easy to master, it has enough skills to reset or escape a fight and deals enough damage to win the 1v1. It’s still not number 1 in zerg fights but playable.

No. Everything you’ve said is based on popular belief.

I adapted by making a warrior. :I My thief is now on the shelf.

This game would be a whole lot better if people accepted the fact they got their kitten handed to them and improve themselves instead of waiting for nerfs by riding the Tear Train. :I

A red post!

Mathias.9657:

Zacchary.6183:

Mathias.9657:

Black Teagan.9215:

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

If you think thieves have zero mitigation then you are doing something wrong.

Give us an example.

Black Powder (Avoidance)
Dodge x3 (if you aren’t deep 15 in acro you are also doing it wrong won’t get them)(Avoidance)
Pain Instinctual Response (Avoidance)
Evade from S/P 3 (Avoidance)
Evade from S/D 3 (Avoidance)+ the boon it steals (mitigation depending on boon stolen)
Shortbow 3 (Avoidance)
Teleports from sword 2 and shadowstep which also happen to remove 1 and 3x condi respectively (OMG some mitigation!)
Lyssa runes (not class specific therefore null) with bask venom (CC not mitigation)
All bundles stolen give some form of mitigation – blind,reflect,fear,boons (the only mitigation from stealing is Eat Egg, Drink and Consume Plasma)

We are just missing a reliable form of stability. (besides dagger storm trololo)

Just to be clear, anything that causes you to take less damage would be considered mitigation which includes stuns. So to say or think thief has zero is ridiculous because we have a ton.

Clearly trolling, right? Maybe you should look up the definition of mitigation. I even explained at the end of my post to be clear of what it meant. I mean really, high school drop outs trying to correct me… rofl.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mitigation?r=75&src=ref&ch=dic

EDIT: To explain the term “damage mitigation”, regardless of the boons or skills you are equipped with you still take the hit but it isn’t as bad as if you were getting hit without the boons and skills.

All this because rangers don’t know how to manage their pets.

Clark Skinner.4902:

Lots of things have hard counters.
I don’t base my whole playstyle on one mechanic, expecting it to never be countered. It is time that stealth-centered builds have to fear counters the same that any other build that is built steeply on one mechanic.

Like they fear condition stacking and CC? Cool.

I’m going to say this for the umpteenth time: d/d conditions kitten s Rangers.

There is countering with skill and then there is countering with skills. If you really have to use countering skills to counter then apparently you don’t have the skill to counter anything.

Simple as that.

Ryan.8367:

DanH.5879:

Ryan.8367:

‘very good players should not dominate in 1v1s’.

this is what the community wants !

Are you blind or did you just quote that one section of my entire sentence to troll?

’ so not sure where you’re getting ‘very good players should not dominate in 1v1s’.’

I’m with DanH on this one. Congratulations, DanH…

If warriors get a torch, then thieves should get rifles and engis should get hammers.

Rym.1469:

With Thief – none of mentioned above. They just stick like glued, blinding constantly, without single cripple/chill even. No. Spammable, not telegraphed gapclosers, requiring no skill at all, without proper counterplays.
This state has to be fixed. Reduce spam, give more counterplay. That’s all I want.

You realize rotations is another form of spam right?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

It’s free as in: they didn’t pay money for it. Free doesn’t mean there’s no effort involved, at least not in this case.

Banewrath.5107:

Bright.9160:

Look at the search bar of your internet browser.

It says …/suggestions/Mounts-46

This means that this is the 46th thread that had the title ‘Mounts’, meaning that 45 people before you thought it was a good idea to post a thread about Mounts. That means that this thread is 45 times more pointless than any last thread about this beaten-to-death topic.

No.

Now stop suggesting it.

I truly hope that one day if you ever make a post to support something you like. A flood of naysayers like yourself will rush to chime in with pointless comments like you made.

It would definitely happen if they made a mounts thread.

Mathias.9657:

Black Teagan.9215:

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

If you think thieves have zero mitigation then you are doing something wrong.

Give us an example.

Black Powder (Avoidance)
Dodge x3 (if you aren’t deep 15 in acro you are also doing it wrong won’t get them)(Avoidance)
Pain Instinctual Response (Avoidance)
Evade from S/P 3 (Avoidance)
Evade from S/D 3 (Avoidance)+ the boon it steals (mitigation depending on boon stolen)
Shortbow 3 (Avoidance)
Teleports from sword 2 and shadowstep which also happen to remove 1 and 3x condi respectively (OMG some mitigation!)
Lyssa runes (not class specific therefore null) with bask venom (CC not mitigation)
All bundles stolen give some form of mitigation – blind,reflect,fear,boons (the only mitigation from stealing is Eat Egg, Drink and Consume Plasma)

We are just missing a reliable form of stability. (besides dagger storm trololo)

Just to be clear, anything that causes you to take less damage would be considered mitigation which includes stuns. So to say or think thief has zero is ridiculous because we have a ton.

The simple solution is to make food that increases player’s skill level.

MeGaZlo.9516:

uknortherner.2670:

Banewrath.5107:

Zacchary.6183:

You are pushing down possibly good suggestions with more mount threads.

Some of us think mounts are good suggestion. You don`t see me naysaying anything you support do you?

Emphasis on some. The majority of GW2 players could not give a toss about mounts or how other MMOs are somehow uber-amazing because they have sparkly flying unicorns for $18 each.

You speak on behalf of the Majority? In this topic, likely, there are fewer than even 30 different people. Dramatic part of majority does not come to the forum at all.

I stopped to write on this forum for a long time, because suggestions ??drowning in the streams troling and, sorry, stupidest comments in type of “your idea is kitten, because my idea in the next topic seems to me much better and it must be implement before yours, and devs should not waste time on yours”

Therefore it is better to end bickering about what topic has no place to be and to give more constructive comments. You do not want mounts – so describe why they should not be.

If there was a good amount of people actually buying the broom and drill, you’de be seeing more sales or at least additions to the Gem Store. However there have been no promotions for almost a year.

Maybe itll happen during halloween for the broom or another flame and frost type thing after that but anet looks at their numbers ALOT and act upon those numbers ALOT and it seems the numbers didn’t show a sale or additions would be a good idea.

Da Sonic.6521:

Zero.5034:

A thief is a gorilla tactics type of class.

You make me proud.

(o. o ) ….. good lord.

Leveling a thief is a pain in the kitten .

How many people are going around LA with the broom or the drill? Not very many.

High burst for below average sustain.

Stealth, blinds, teleports and evades for mediocre armor, healing and HP; pidgeonholed condition removal; very little regen, reflection and stability; and no protection, invulnerability, damage reduction, and aegis.

Great utility traits for kittenty utilities that require all associated traits for the utility to be viable.

Skill system that allows for skill chaining at the cost of having 1 attack out of an entire weapon set that is neither weak nor costly.

Having the most powerful single-hit attack in the game for said attack requiring plenty of setup to be the most powerful.

High-utility attacks for few damaging attacks.

All signets are instant cast for said signets sucking without traits or when not in the proper circumstances.

Those are a few I can pull off the top of my head.

You are pushing down possibly good suggestions with more mount threads.

Everyone who complains about thieves only looks at what they have and NEVER look at what they give up for it in exchange.

Sweetbread.2679:

lol how is block a counter to stealth? even if you get blocked, evaded, or just flat out miss you won’t lose stealth and can instantly spam the attack again thanks to the wonderfully thought out stealth and inititative systems. The fact thieves exist at all is mind boggling, the only thing I can think of is that Anet was trying to boost sales by catering to the inept moron that needs training wheels to compete demographic.

No but you will know someone is trying to backstab which gives you the hint to press dodge or move so you may waste the thief’s stealth time and stealth attack. So yes it is a counter, it just requires a little work.

This thread needs to be locked.

Turamarth.3248:

Using Flurry would cost you 10% damage if you have traited Burst Mastery.

How do you get the 45% bonus damage?
10% Runes
5% Sigil
5% Dual Wielding
15% Berserker´s Power
3% Stick and Move
= 38%

:o For some reason I though SaM was 10%. Sorry about that I’ll fix it. :P

Olba.5376:

stuff

The point of this thread was to compare 2 attacks from different professions by using math to get approximate damage so even though most of your critiques are valid they do not matter in this thread. I already know those builds suck but regardless I am using them to prove a point.

As for Whirling Axe being avoidable, so is Backstab and every other attack out there. It still has a great damage capability.

Turamarth.3248:

Final Thrust also requires that the target is immobilized or stunned.
Otherwise the enemy would just dogde away.

Flurry immobilizes. In fact I can see Savage Leap > Flurry > Final Thrust doing the trick.

Well TWAC can go kiss my Warrior’s fuzzy brown Charr butt.

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

The only people who should worry about d/p are scrubs. Against average players, it takes effort. Against good players, it takes luck. Even if you do land it, its no guarentee you’ll get a crit on backstab unless you are traited for 100% in stealth.

The scrubs are the ones who rely on permastealth and ruin the reputation of thieves.

Maybe they only use stealth because they can’t play the class as easily as the others? Probably because you can’t mindlessly rotate skills on the thief? Probably because the class actually requires you to pay attention to a universal resource pool instead of cooldowns?

I don’t know….

In light of me getting hooked on Sword/Axe on my warrior I learned about Final Thrust so 4s&g I decided to see how it compares to Backstab.

So after some playing around with traits and self buffs in sPvP, I came up with:

Warrior
2654 power (2484 unbuffed)
58% crit damage
+38% bonus damage

9863 with final thrust

Thief
3004 power (2484 unbuffed)
58% crit damage
+65% bonus damage
+3 Vulnerability

12,216 with Backstab.

Now these are mildly irrelevant. However, I decided to take the stats from my thief and apply them to FT’s formula vs heavy armor to see what the difference would be if both attacks were on even ground:

(3.0 * 3004 * 1000/2597)2.08 * 1.73 = 12486

Then I went back and did Backstab’s formula:

(2.4 * 3004 * 981/2597)2.08 * 1.73 = 9516 * 2 = 19599

Although Backstab does beat Final Thrust, Backstab requires more setup and thus it is harder to pull off. Here are the two builds I used in their raw form, only reflecting the stats above, and what I used to test:

Thief, raw.
Thief, test.

Warrior, raw.
Warrior, test.

With Final Thrust, I only need them down past 50% HP which tends to be easy for a warrior because having a high crit rate and sustain is almost natural for them. With Backstab I must be stealthed, behind them and have them down past 50% HP to get the full effect.

Just a note….

- Notice how I had to put 60 points in Crit Strikes and Deadly Arts to match my Warrior’s stats. My warrior only needs 10 points into arms and he can get plenty of extra precision.

My thief has 10 points to spend on survival while the war has 30. Not only that after my Warrior is finished with Final Thrust he still has Whirling Axe which I have seen hit up past 10k easily. Then you have to factor in the continuing damage from sword bleeds and Flurry, if it hits.

In conclusion,

20k single hit that requires stealth and positioning behind a moving target every 3-4 seconds max with a heart seeker chain for whatever damage to a single target.

-vs-

19-27k AoE assault that does not require stealth or positioning + continued assault with bleeding.

…. now go bang your head into some cement until you pass out.

Dead Muppet.9718:

So as the topic says, whats the weakness? Specifically to rangers if you could help out

The only people who should worry about d/p are scrubs. Against average players, it takes effort. Against good players, it takes luck. Even if you do land it, its no guarentee you’ll get a crit on backstab unless you are traited for 100% in stealth.