yea it could be a clusterkitten, but i see many possible counters that are not seeing play atm because of the bunker v roaming burst gameplay. off the top of my head: warrior hammer F1 — save it for when enemy tries to spike your carrier. stuff like that. you know, teamplay.
im not talking about hotjoins, i’m talking about organized teams. 1 guy carries the orb, rest of his team works to keep the other team cced, and removed conditions (chill, immob, cripple) from their orb carrier. hammer warriors suddenly useful. rifle engineers suddenly useful. guardians can spec more offensively. etc. game becomes less about roam vs bunker, and more about cc, defending your team, supporting your carrier, moving as a single unit, coordinating spikes to get rid of enemies that are causing problems, etc.
idea for new game mode I hope we can do with custom arenas:
spiritwatch, turn nodes off, each orb cap worth 100 pts. (aka ctf)
jesus that sounds awesome.
then we would actually see real teamplay.
edit: turn off scores for kills, etc as well?Actually not. that would just force you into one thing you have to concentrate the whole game. You need several objectives to make the match dynamic and not only focused on one thing.
what a weird comment
is fighting other players not dynamic enough for you?
idea for new game mode I hope we can do with custom arenas:
spiritwatch, turn nodes off, each orb cap worth 100 pts. (aka ctf)
jesus that sounds awesome.
then we would actually see real teamplay.
edit: turn off scores for kills, etc as well?
(edited by milo.6942)
gw1 guild hall scrimmage cost ecto to use. /truestory
I dont get it. What ll exactly show that leaderboard?
Pvp Rank? Or MMR? (Wich is better imo)
MMR
it won’t show mmr, only top 100 players, etc
Award points for winning, and not for losing. Greatly reduce or eliminate any glory gain from things you do during a game. It is simpler and fairer to award glory for winning as a team, and not for individual pursuits.
I truly thought that was the way things were going to be when the game launched. I still feel as if that’s the way it should be
The way things are now, it strongly discourages team work and everyone is for themselves.
they are trying to make the game casual-friendly and kittening up everything they touch
edit: this entire thread is worthless debates about points gained here and there, and “think of the bunkers” and the capping and the killing points… all worthless. all distract from the object of the game: win
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guys
guys listen
guys
i have an ide
guys
what if we removed the nodes from foefire
i love useless polls
what are you asking, exactly? if the balance changes will be pvp only? they won’t be.
slightly offtopic: i’d like to see the concept of bunkers vs burst gone as well. i just don’t think it’s fun. i don’t like the idea of winning a match by getting 500 points. i think it removes most possibility of comebacks after a bad start. i’d like to see bunkers and burst toned down, and i’d like to see the classes be more vulnerable to specific tactics, and needing teammates to support them (e.g. warriors weak to conditions, needs someone to remove conditions from them). i think the conquest gameplay spreads a team too thin, so that only classes that are independent can play well — this removes most teamplay options.
if conquest is gone, and we focus more on teamfights in some new gametype (gvg pls thnx), and if we tone down burst and bunkers, i think we will see excellent pvp.
yes it is mostly good
that’s why i’m still in these forums (but not in game)
Yes, the top of the players base should be the only ones that get any say in balance changes.
actually no. top players have good input to give about top-level play, but they’ve no idea how to balance for lower-skill level players, which is still important. balance should be a series of steps and counter-steps from rank 1 to the top. e.g. the easiest play can be countered by a slightly more difficult play, which can be countered by a slightly more difficult play, etc. all the way to the top. at the moment, I think the balance in this sense is “ok” but still needs lots of work. input from top players and low players should be looked at carefully by a person that is not particularly invested in playing. it’s important to remain detached and fair in the assessment of game balance. in this respect, top players are probably the least suited to make direct changes to game balance (they are the most invested players of all). at the same time, their experience is invaluable in providing good top-level play.
it’s not impossible. it’s just improbable with the speed they’re moving at.
“if you only play hotjoin don’t point out that instant death is op.”
wow…just wow.
first these idiots tell you they want your part of the game removed because THEY don’t use it, now they tell you unless you play their part of the game you are’nt allowed an opinion.
we need gasmasks to survive the colossal brainfart they just released…
why don’t you play tournies? why do you like hotjoin better?
Award points for winning, and not for losing. Greatly reduce or eliminate any glory gain from things you do during a game. It is simpler and fairer to award glory for winning as a team, and not for individual pursuits.
bloodbird that is a good post. the only thing i disagree with is the last one. if we want a proper pvp, we must accept that there will be differences between pve and pvp.
other things: xp gain during pvp I think is ok, but it must slightly slower than what you would gain in pve. else we get all kinds of pve ppl in here trying to lvl fast.
I think the overall headline of your post should be this:
it’s obvious the devs are not taking spvp seriously. this is a serious mistake. they need to consider the possibilities that gw2 pvp has, and act on them in a serious manner. there are many proven business models for esports, and many people expect something similar. and they expected it yesterday, not in some nebulous tomorrow where the excuse that LoL took years to get off the ground allows you to put development off.
hire more people. make pvp f2p. draw up a proper business model that can leverage the popularity of f2p into the cash shop and even into box sales. but above all, get a good team that knows how to develop appropriate features in a timely manner.
if you don’t take your pvp players seriously, they won’t take you seriously either.
edit: there are many examples of the pvp in this game not being taken seriously by the developers in addition to the lack of any substantial updates at all. E.G. the fact that glory exists as both an outward facing measure of a player, and a pve reward mechanism. I really don’t have appropriate words to express my disappointment with this. GLORY BOOSTER?? yes, rank is an excellent measure of player skill… in hello kitty pvp land, where no matter if you lose every single match you can still reach r40 if you keep grinding. the idea that mmr should be hidden is also another indicator that we are attempting to cater far too much to casuals. this entire system needs to be redone, bottom to top.
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xiv that was a good post
huH? we have a radar its the minimap on the bottom. it shows our allies on the map and mission objectives as well when they’re up. only thing it doesnt show is enemies, is that what this thread is about?
yes
by the way, remember that leaderboards won’t even be in-game.
they will put them on the website, and then after several months they might put them in-game.
nah I don’t think so. it’s ok with or without radar, just plays differently. but anyway there are other things to take care of.
no.
the closest you will get is wvw, and i’m not touching that with a 10’ pole.
i was going to just leave my reply like this, but i feel bad for you. you’ve been trained to think pvp should be “endgame” and you should have to grind out a max lvl character to get into it. i get that you feel like you’ve “earned” it by waiting until max level, but this is just years of indoctrination.
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custom arenas will replace hotjoins
you will see 90% of ppl make their servers into arena dm
if they removed glory gain for losing, none of this would still be happening.
cleansing fire says hi
edit: again i think people have skewed ideas about how fights should go down. the current situation is not good. there should not exist a brainless fight reset button. all arguments regarding ele squishiness are fine in some broader discussion about eles, but not this one. here, we are talking about how easily ele resets fights.
(edited by milo.6942)
ensoriki seems to be the only one understanding what i’m saying.
i began with “idgaf syndrom” because that’s exactly what rtl is a part of. you don’t have to care anything about what’s going on, you have to only use it in the opposite direction of the fight. you don’t have to care about your chilled or your cripple. you don’t have to worry about cleansing yourself and planning the appropriate time to escape. you don’t have to worry about getting outplayed by someone who anticipates your rtl and snared you.
you just leave.
and that’s bad balance.
it turns out that there exists a bunker build for eles that is quite good. they are not the poor helpless low hp class with no defense.
it’s madness to give the ele a 1200 gap closer that’s immune to slows. TWELVEHUNDRED. “poor defenseless eles need a way to reset fights.” right.
make rtl affected by slows. how is this still in the game?? we’ll see how the stealth nerf works out, but i have a feeling it won’t be enough.
if they are glass, then they need to blast or die. there also need to be way to leave combat, for sure, but it can’t be a get-out-of-jail-free card like they have now. rtl needs to be affected by slows, for instance. then you would need to actually pay attention to your conditions before attempting to rtl away.
thieves and elementalists suffer from idgaf syndrome.
it works like this. if you are a thief or an ele, you don’t have to think twice before you engage an enemy. you don’t have to consider if you are outmatched or if the enemy will send reinforcements. you can just say “idgaf” and begin fighting. if things start to go south, you can just leave. ele with rtl and thief with stealth. there’s little an enemy can do to stop you. in addition, the ele has great survivability.
idgaf syndrome is a balance problem the devs need to address. your choice to engage or not should be an important one. there should not be so many options for leaving fights.
so: ele and thief need to have their “lol bye” options restricted. then, all classes need to have their unused skills and traits buffed slowly to bring them in line with the rest of the good builds.
any way you cut it, it’s one less option for balancing, and it has a direct impact on making encounters simpler: use most powerful skills available.
certainly, there is room for skillful play. but it is less than available when energy is involved.
@mbh that is a good post
re: your points
1) yes. energy is a secondary resource that skills can alter. it adds depth to play.
2) the problem i’m addressing is one of pacing and matchups. gw2 skills are balanced with long cool downs, elites in particular. in order to justify calling a skill “elite”, it must be powerful. if it is powerful, it must be balanced. the only way to balance a powerful skill is to make its recharge high. if this were gw1, we could also balance the skill with higher energy costs, but lower cool downs (e.g. searing flames).
the champ titles mean nothing at all
it’s laughable how easy they are to get
at best, they demonstrate that a person normally knows which buttons to press on their favorite build
i have engi champ title and i don’t consider myself a ‘champ’ engi at all.
when skills are balanced there are now only 2 considerations.
if a skill is too powerful:
- reduce its power
or - add more recharge
often, balance changes in gw1 involved adding or removing energy to the cost. if the skill was simply too powerful, then it would get a small recharge adjustment, or perhaps a skill feature change.
energy acts like a global skill recharge, and helps give pacing to a fight.
a few skills that can’t exist without energy from gw1:
searing flames
mind blast
mind burn
energy surge
most monk skills
etc
these skills are strong, but balanced along a secondary axis (energy cost). instead, now we have problem in gw2 where team deathmatch can’t work well because everyone just uses their elites (all long-recharge skills) and the fight is over in 30 seconds.
i’m strongly considering just going back to gw1. there are so many aspects of gw2 that cater more to casuals than to pvpers, and it’s baked into the game at the lowest levels. gw1 pvp > gw2 pvp. gw2 pve > gw1 pve.
i don’t think it’s all karl’s fault. again, consider they’ve no data collection systems, and no resources from anet to get it. certainly, he seems to not know what’s going on, but lay the blame at the feet of the people responsible, and not just the only people we interact with.
I agree, it also could’ve been the fact that Karl could’ve possibly been nervous he is only human, and it could happen to anyone; I know that in my life I have had those blank out periods.
Anyways all I can say is, I was very grateful to the devs for the experience and their patients.Ye sure, Karl is just not as talented as Jon in speaking to people. But for public interviews you need ppl who are good in talking and have not “uhmmm” as every second word.
the way karl speaks is irrelevant. what he said demonstrated a disconnect between dev-land and player-land. to my mind, this is not his fault, it’s the consequence of other game modes being prioritized in the company.
arena combat is coming, actually. everyone seems to forget that custom servers will likely allow node disabling and setting max player limits. they’ve said they will monitor what players will do with the servers and if they can learn anything from it for future game modes.
i still play pve every few days, believe it or not. fractals are actually pretty challenging and well-made. you guys should give it a try.
i don’t think it’s all karl’s fault. again, consider they’ve no data collection systems, and no resources from anet to get it. certainly, he seems to not know what’s going on, but lay the blame at the feet of the people responsible, and not just the only people we interact with.
they can’t even add solo queue in 7 months, and you want them to develop mod capabilities?
they’ve already said they’re not gonna do it
i am hoping the “spectator mode only for hotjoin” wasnt as dumb as it first sounds. maybe he meant to say tournies. or it’s for hotjoins because they dont want ppl using a voice comm spy on other teams with a 6th person on spectator.
gw1 solved this problem in last century: obs for match available only after match is done.
The positive: I am just happy they mentioned traitlines and weapons, making less used weapons and traitlines more appealing. Build diversity will do much. The ranking and spectator programs coming sound good too.
The negative: However the rate at which changes occur feels too slow. The amount of changes happening are often minuscule, making you feel that the road to build diversity is lightyears away.
exactly
when i hear them talking about things they will do, i think “it would be great if all of what they say would come in the next patch, but more likely they may do some of this in a month or two.”
my impression is whatever balance changes we get, they are actually pve table scraps. the pvp devs have plans, but no resources. when they were asked how it is they balance stuff and what they mean by “looking” at something, they did not mention anything about having tools to gather data or observe player matches or statistics, etc. they’ve nothing. they are undermanned, underfunded and always at the mercy of other game modes.
in gw1, you could really feel that balance changes revolved largely around gvg and to a lesser degree ha. occasionally there were pve-centric changes as well, but by and large skill updates and explanations were talking about gvg.
anet has shifted priorities. they are more interested in other game modes that cater to casuals. i don’t say this lightly, but we’ve reached a point where it is obvious. we can even see this in how much rng there is in all the skills and traits and weapons and armor and sigils. “select all the traits and sigils that give the highest chance to proc the biggest dmg and smash all your keys”.
you know what you should do anet?
make gw1 pvp edition hd. release on steam. profit.
2) Move on? Where too? Is there another game with pretty well balanced action-combat instanced pvp?
gw1
mouse clicking will always be faster, and therefore better than tab targeting when available targets exceed 3-4. if i am interested in playing well i will click my targets, if i am feeling lazy i will tab through all those minions.
to your second question about rtl: click the ground
i’m sorry guys, but i stopped when i got to this part:
nero: “So what do you mean when you say you’re ‘looking’ at something? are you seeing which classes with certain skills have a higher win/loss ratio, or what?”
anet: “we ummm look at how many people umm complain and how many angry pms i get in game…”
hey, while we’re on the topic of builds, I’m looking for a trustworthy website resource on pvp and pve builds. googling for gw2 builds seems to give many outdated results (often from beta periods). there are many builds scattered on youtube as well. is there 1 site in particular that has a good collection?
wvw culling was a major issue for anet. they probably devoted the lion’s share of their programmers to it. now that a fix is coming out this month, there will be more people able to work on spvp. ergo, we will see faster development of spvp infrastructure. exactly how much faster is anyone’s guess.