Guild Wars 2

That doesn’t make any sense. How does clicking one link mean he isn’t cherry picking? All that means is that I was mistaken about one threads age. Cherry picking (which it obviously is) and being mistaken about a threads creation date are not related in any way that I am aware of.

Phantom.8130:

I went back through some of my own posts, since those were easy enough to find. If you expect me to produce a comprehensive list of every good suggestion that’s ever been made in this section of the forums, you have very unrealistic expectations.

Precisely. Cherry picking indeed. This also implies that if you didn’t participate in a discussion, that it didn’t happen.

Phantom.8130:

Are you honestly trying to say the CDI wasn’t one of the larger threads that occurred in the WvW section?

I have no idea how anything I said even begins to imply anything of that nature. Mind specifying something in my post that implies this, so I can address it specifically.

Phantom.8130:

Because the overall discussion is the same exact discussion that’s happening in multiple threads right now. People don’t like the new maps and they’re letting their opinions be known. However, It seems that some people feel the need to attack them for their opinions, in the most dishonest ways possible. I want facts to matter, not manipulative narrative.

You may not want to be so quick to point figures. Some of your comments to people who appear to like the maps, or who do not see why other dislike them, could very easily be called attacks.

That is a very bad design in my opinion. There are very clear differences between the green area and the other 2, when it comes to pathing, spawn area routes. There are proximity issues that favor one color over another.

I mean, I guess I can see what your trying to do, but it is so rough, unsymmetrical, out of proportion, and lacking information on how far things are apart in relation to siege range.

One thing I do not understand, is that in your post, you tell us where fights will happen. What is that about? No offence, but it feels a little hard to have an honest discussion about, when you go as far as to tell us what players will do, when in reality, you do not have a clue.

As many post as their are throwing out PvE hate in WvW (you have some yourself) what possessed you to believe a PvE escort quest is what anyone wants?

ArchonWing.9480:

Dude….. I click on the first link, and it says “2 years ago”

Furthermore, the game has changed a lot in 3 years; what was said in 2012 may not be accurate today.

Though the game may have changed, it doesn’t mean many of the request did. The game changing, does not dismiss others view, opinions, and request, unless those very aspects the posters were discussing, were specifically addressed.

I Just do not see how 1 picture in one threads, represents what everyone wanted, as he appear to be attempting to imply.

Phantom.8130:

coglin.1867:

It is not near as sickening as players who do not appear to know what was actually asked for. They listened to players, then they gave them changes that fir the criteria of what the posters unspecifically demanded.

If you lack of awareness of what was requested, “sickens” you, perhaps you should go back and read the “demands” for changes.

Once again…..

Specific, detailed suggestion on the map design: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Beside-bug-lag-Bal-how-to-improve-WvW/first#post3024534

And in the CDI: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/Collaborative-Development-World-Population/page/11#post3127179

And here, with a Dev post directly after it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Three-Likes-Three-Hates/page/3#post3550372

And here, and someone even included a picture for them to work from: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/I-think-WvW-needs-more-updates/first#post3921113

And a mention here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Three-Likes-Three-Hates/page/4#post3555006

And another mention here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Serious-zerg-question-for-REAL-discussion/first#post3678370

And after HoT launched, the same exact thing here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Constructive-Feedback-Desert-Borderlands/page/2#post5700665

And here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Like-or-Dislike-new-WvW-Bordelands/page/4#post5701734

Every time you try pulling this “it wasn’t clear!!!” card, I’m going to post these exact same links. These are extremely clear, and there’s even a picture if they couldn’t figure it out. Stop lying, stop bullying people, stop trying to play the victim after you do so. Respond to these. How are these not clear? How are these not specific? How can anyone not understand them?

I have a question.

With three years of threads with complaints, players demands, criticism, and discussion, Why do none of the threads you chose go back more then a year?

Are you cherry picking your threads or discounting any thread?

I find it a little convenient That you claimed to have been away from the game for extended periods of time, and thus chose to completely ignore many of the larger threads that occurred during the time you said you were away.

Is there a reason your ignoring 2/3 of the overall discussion?

Bridger.9245:

WvW was lackluster and broken in a lot of ways. I’ve been waiting for them to fix it for 3 years. Now they’ve finally fixed it and the people who got used to the old way are upset that they are no longer super knowledgeable about it. It happens in every major change to every game.

I couldn’t be happier with the changes so far. They are what convinced me to buy the expansion in the first place.

I kind of feel the same way. I had a negative opinion at first. Then last night we had multiple maps queued, and the opposing servers seemed to as well. After playing for several hours and learning my way around, I really came to like the new maps. The choke points are great.

The only issue I found, was that it felt like the day before, when keeps were T3, the health of the walls and doors was sternly over tuned. Personally, I think that could use some tweaking. Otherwise, had some really good large and small scale fights last night.

Sandrox.9524:

TLDR – roaming parties and solo roamers would not find fights often which will lead to ppl abandoning the map for EB which will lead to map emptyness.

Why can’t you find fights? The map literally tells you where other roamers are.

Strikes me as a bit odd after 3 years of thread upon thread demanding new maps, then to see posters who did not participate in the discussion, giving this feedback. If you do not like larger maps, why didn’t you participate in the discussion?

Larger, more open maps, were asked for regularly, and I do not recall anyone asking not to make larger maps.

Kanebrake.6192:

Jayne.9251:

Elysia.5019:

Show me one instance of Anet delivering something the WvW community has asked for. And no, fixing achievements so they don’t take a minimum 12 years to complete (3 years after launch) doesn’t count.

• They removed culling, which was a major change.
• They adjusted fov after people complained that some players had three-screen setups that gave them an advantage
• They changed siege despawn from 30 minutes to one hour
• They removed the quaggans because they were buggy and affected the entire map
• They added bloodlust to replace the quaggans because players asked for PPK effects.
• They worked to fix the issues from allowing fov with siege, and are still in progress of actively finding a solution.

There`s more, but those are a few of the requested things that have transpired.

These are more bug and exploit fixes than they are new features.

Such as?

Why are you going to bother making a statement like that if your not going to list it? This thread has the attention of the development team with topic of HoT release. If there are bugs and exploits, it might be wise to list them hear to discuss as fixes needing to be addressed for HoT or soon after. I feel if your going to use it as an argument to claim there are more issues then resolutions, you might as well list them. Both to support the claim your putting forth as an argument, and to be certain they are brought more into light in a constructive manner.

Obtena.7952:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Arantheal.7396:

We already have a utility that rezzes players, throw elixir R. It does so on up to 5 allies, clears 1 condition per second, is a lightfield (so even more condi clears), can not be damaged, has a 1.2k range, rezzes faster than the function-gyro & even rezz ourselves if thrown right before we go down. Together with HgH & tools it can be used every 70 seconds, clears a additional condi and grants might+vigor on impact. If kinetic battery is equipped as elite trait, it can be used every 40sec, or twice in short succession every 70 seconds.

This is the best point that can be made against the mechanic of function gyro.

It speaks volumes when you have a single utility that out functions and entire Elite Specializations mechanic.

Seems to me that what this really says is Throw Elixer R needs a massive nerf.

I can see why you would say that. The funny thing is though, that it would seem it is rarely used because the other utility skills are used instead of it. Now I say this based on my experience of what I have seen of the engineer community in game and on the forums. I have not spent time on all 72+ servers to know that for certain. But in my antidotel experience, I almost never see it used at all.

If a skill is not strong or valuable enough to be utilized over that of other utilities, I do not see a logic in nerfing it.

displayname.8315:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Yes, it does occur.
The issue as I see it, is that it is not the fault of the players who are on. If something is capped, it is the fault of the server that lost it.

So we should blame ourselves for imbalance and not the antiquated server system that became obsolete when EoTM launched? Furthermore when megaservers were launched?

Sometimes you make sense monkey I’m not seeing it here.

You can blame who ever you like I guess, I am not sure why you are asking me though, as your question is totally irrelevant to the post you quoted. All I suggested was that in discussing population balance issues, that the players who are on during off peak hours are not doing anything wrong, thus posters should not speak so harshly about them in a bias and segregate manner.

I never mentioned anything about EotM so I am unclear how you jumped to conclusions with that in my post.

To directly answer your question, basically the community is absolutely at fault. Many have server stacked and bandwagoned. I sure wouldn’t say we are at fault, as I am still on the same server I was on since the 3 day head start at release.

What I do not understand, is how I quoted and agreed with you, and you suggest you are not seeing me as making sense in that post…………I don’t even know what to do with that,

Arantheal.7396:

We already have a utility that rezzes players, throw elixir R. It does so on up to 5 allies, clears 1 condition per second, is a lightfield (so even more condi clears), can not be damaged, has a 1.2k range, rezzes faster than the function-gyro & even rezz ourselves if thrown right before we go down. Together with HgH & tools it can be used every 70 seconds, clears a additional condi and grants might+vigor on impact. If kinetic battery is equipped as elite trait, it can be used every 40sec, or twice in short succession every 70 seconds.

This is the best point that can be made against the mechanic of function gyro.

It speaks volumes when you have a single utility that out functions and entire Elite Specializations mechanic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Post-BWE3-Scrapper-Changes/first

Blast Gyro’s toolbelt skill, Bypass Coating, is going to be a stunbreak

Kraljevo.2801:

Solution?

- Bring old stability back & decrease its duration to compensate

That is by no means a solution. That simply brings back the old problem. Which was much worse.

An actual solution would be to limit the traits, range, area of effect, duration, and player cap, of existing crowd control skills.

X T D.6458:

Its equally as dishonest to say the majority is not against it

I agree. Though I am unclear why you would post that when no one has suggested such a thing. Though there are multiple post and poster proclaiming claiming the majority are against it. So I am glad to see you agree they are being dishonest.

X T D.6458:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Chaba.5410:

coglin.1867:

What 500 posters (that is a high estimate of how many posters have complained) hatefully demand they think they want, and what the game as a whole and the other 3.5 million players who bought NA and EU accounts need, are not the same.

Ah yes, the silent majority fallacy.

I do not believe “fallacy” means what you think it means.

When we know how many accounts exist, and we do. At least approximately. And we can see how many posters complained in the thread. Which we can. It is actually very factual to state that it is a very small subsection of the GW2 owing community that are voicing an opinion.

So to address what your saying, it is actually a “fallacy” to suggest the majority of the community is unhappy with it.

I can link evidence of the 3.5 million GW2 copies being shortly after release. Now can you link evidence to 1.75 million plus offering negative feedback to support any claim of a majority?

Just because they dont post on forums, does not mean they are happy with this. I have many friends/guildies that do not post on forums and are very unhappy with the direction wvw is headed.

I agree, as I never even remotely suggested they were happy with it. So I am glad we agree on that. What I am suggesting, is that it is not honest of posters to proclaim that the majority of players are against the change.

Now if your friends dislike the change, perhaps they should express that. I could share that I have several friends that are fine with it, and essentially could care less what day it is on, as they are no more free on a Friday or Saturday then a Tuesday. The difference is, I speak for myself and do not attempt to claim to speak for others, as it is not productive for an honest discussion.

Chaba.5410:

coglin.1867:

What 500 posters (that is a high estimate of how many posters have complained) hatefully demand they think they want, and what the game as a whole and the other 3.5 million players who bought NA and EU accounts need, are not the same.

Ah yes, the silent majority fallacy.

I do not believe “fallacy” means what you think it means.

When we know how many accounts exist, and we do. At least approximately. And we can see how many posters complained in the thread. Which we can. It is actually very factual to state that it is a very small subsection of the GW2 owing community that are voicing an opinion.

So to address what your saying, it is actually a “fallacy” to suggest the majority of the community is unhappy with it.

I can link evidence of the 3.5 million GW2 copies being shortly after release. Now can you link evidence to 1.75 million plus offering negative feedback to support any claim of a majority?

Diku.2546:

@Dancingmonkey

Yuffi.2430:

For lower tier matches and non-prime times however we would not only have to capture the objectives but keep them active to gain the score. This idea would end the situation where a small group can cap a dead borderlands and leave to cap another yet still gain points from the empty map. With Active Claiming Circles, to retain the score from a borderlands you would need to leave a small number of players to run between objectives keeping them active. A small defending force has a chance to stop these people so even if they can’t reclaim the objectives they can at least stop them counting towards the score and so can influence the match outcome.

It’s a solution to Night Capping…OP explains it very well in this quote above.

I am well aware of what the OP said. Did you even read what I said?

You lost any opportunity for my support the second it specifically stated that lower tier and non-prime time have to deal with this, in a way that is worded that other servers and so called prime times will not. A bias and direct segregated treatment of the player base is an unfair and despicable idea as a whole. I do not support treating players differently for not playing how or when you do

I simply explained how it will have little to no effect in actual practice. It is by no means a solution to your fictional night capping in any way. Because I cannot be night capping if the sun is shinning where I live for one, and two, it will do little more then be a slight inconvenience if someone is trying to maintain off peak PPT. As I explained, they are often already on a keep rotation to refresh siege in keeps they hold. So they are already on the move in a “refresh” rotation at times. Refreshing the keep as well, while already there, would be little more the an inconvenience to off peak players. I do not see making a minor convenience for off peak players, as a beneficial use of dev time, nor is it a solution to off peak PPT.

Diku.2546:

Yuffi…

What do you think about this:

…Implement PPT Objective Decay Timer
……Objectives with zero become Inactive & Do Not Earn PPT
……Objectives only earn PPT when Decay Timer Is Not Zero
……Decay Timer value increases when a player stands in Claim Circle area
……Max Decay Timer value – 60 minutes – Adjusted by ANet

If this looks good to you…I’d like to borrow your idea to post it in my thread…that keeps track of really good ideas like this.

Diku

---

p.s.
Excellent idea…oh…I’d say 60 minutes would be a good max…then let ANet adjust it…based on their research from player feedback.

What is all of that intended to accomplish or solve?

If I am playing late at night with little to no resistance, this wouldn’t change anything. It would simply promote me to map hop from map to map and run a circle on each map, refreshing locations. This is often what players do to refresh siege. In my experience, it will literally change nothing about the WvW experience or score differentials.

I appreciate what your trying to do, but this suggestion just waste development time to make the keeps work like siege. The same siege that players are already cycling through the maps to refresh. All they will do is refresh the keep when refreshing the siege.

Johje Holan.4607:

Don’t get stuck on the semantics or terminology people use. Call it “Time when a Large Population Imbalance Exists Capping” or Twalpie Capping for short.

Twalpie Capping does exist. It has existed since launch. It has been one of the most complained about aspects of WvW since launch.

Twalpie Capping is something that needs to be fixed. It needed to be fixed a long time ago before we lost so many people from WvW.

Yes, it does occur.
The issue as I see it, is that it is not the fault of the players who are on. If something is capped, it is the fault of the server that lost it. Yet so many posters make post demanding the solution be to change the rules to work against those who are on and playing at the time. That is where I, personally, take issue with a lot of those suggestions.

Swamurabi.7890:

Some people just don’t read OP, even when it’s a red post.

That would be relevant if the comment you cherry picked was referring to the OP. The comment you cherry picked was referring to the comment it was quoting about specific player complaints, not the OP.

Isbot.6701:

Nightcapping doesn’t exist. People play GW2 from around the world and I have guild members from a number of different countries and time zones. One person’s night is another persons day.

Yup. It is the equivalent of political rhetoric. The funny part is that most of those complainers who made up the fictional term, are the same ones who are band wagoning server stackers, who transfer when their server doesn’t win matchups.

Isbot.6701:

There are a number of threads where players complain about it but seeing the game devs mention it is something that I find disturbing. People play WvW 24/7. If some servers have more on at non peak NA hours then they do. This is not something that needs to be fixed.

Exactly. If you want to force effects on players to initiate fixes for real issues. Force transfer all those bandwagoners to their original servers.

That will solve the real problem and the imaginary one. There are infinitely more complaints about population imbalance then anything else.

Isbot.6701:

I understand that people are frustrated to play for a number of hours, go to bed and wake up to find that the lead they went to bed with is now gone. However, the people on the other server that took that lead away are just as frustrated that their compatriots couldn’t stop YOU from building up that lead in the first place.

Yeah, it is hypocrisy at its finest isn’kitten The bandwagon and lemming to specific servers. Then cry and demand Anet changes the rules for those of us who were already there.

Isbot.6701:

I read on another thread where somebody said in jest “WvW should shut down every time I log out”. To me that is the summary of all of the complaints against nightcapping. Please don’t penalize players who happen to play at a time which is less than peak for their server.

Yeah, that says it all about some players doesn’kitten

Kanebrake.6192:

But the fact is that most people have a lot less they are responsible for in the evenings. That’s when people typically sit down to watch tv, play games, read, and whatever else they find relaxing. On the other hand those who have things they MUST (keyword is must) do weekend evenings are much fewer than those who have things they must do during the day. Must meaning obligated. As in must go to work, must take care of a newborn, must run errands because there’s no other time, must whatever.

This is a fact? Last I checked, what you consider “evening” where you are is not the same everywhere else due to time zones. Worse, your claiming it as fact when you do no more then assume what others are doing, when and why.

What facts are you using to support the idea that is the reality of it at all? For example, you suggest television on the weekend evenings, when it is a provable fact that Friday and Saturday evenings , for example are the least watched times for television in the week, at least in America. (source : BLS American Time Use Survey, A.C. Nielsen Co.)

My point is, and this isn’t aimed at you specifically, that posters are making claims, to support their perceived “wants”. Yet have no factual basis to make those claims. Thus offering no substantial bases for the rage and accusations across this thread, other then their perceived wants.

cillard.3986:

#1. 50 person active roster guild. 100% of whom are unhappy with it.

Perhaps you should let each of them share their own opinion, and stick to sharing your own, that is best for everyone.

cillard.3986:

#2. Full map queue on reset last night with all but 5 people extremely unhappy about it. Out of those 5, 3 didnt care one way or the other and the other two it was more convenient for them.

Are you presuming to speak for 5 other people? Or am I misunderstanding what your suggesting? How many of the 4 maps were queued? 3pm in the afternoon today, there were 2 maps queued for me.

cillard.3986:

3. The straw poll results. It isn’t perfect, but at least you can only vote once per IP address.

How many people voted on that random unsecure poll? .ooo1% of the GW2 accounts that exist (I rounded up)

cillard.3986:

4. Numerous threads on different forums where people are complaining about it. Here, Reddit, server forum, guild forum, etc.

Most of which are the same hundred people making multiple post as far as I know. Seems like a vocal minority to me.

cillard.3986:

I am using a combination of queue numbers provided by the game, feedback from people will no longer be logging in Friday to Saturday night, and general (and I would hope by now!) common knowledge of how the game works in regards to meaningful WvW in a matchup.

Queue numbers where?

A few post and guild chatter do not define common knowledge as I know it.

cillard.3986:

So you logic is that moving reset from a weekday to a weekend evening means that ANET doesnt have to work an extra day a week. What proof do you have of that because it just scream contrarian BS to me? Define ‘small’ …how do you know it is ‘small’ ? Besides, working for a gaming company, software company of any sort, hosting service, and even IT work directly comes with the understanding that you work when and where you have to. If you are in the industry yourself, you will know that I speak 100% truth on that.

No, my logic in Johns post in which it was explained.

Small? Like the amount of people complaining? Early on there were what, 3.5 million copies sold of the game, NOT counting the China release. I hardly call 750 post (many are multiple post of the same debaters) even touches feed back from a small amount of the community. I kind of figured if it was that important, we would see at least 1% post about it.

Kitta.3657:

here’s a poll on the WvW forums that are being officially recommended by Anet for anything related to matchups

Got a link supporting they have deemed this poll as “official”? I see nothing of the sort in the dev tracker.

Baldrick.8967:

And what do you base your claims on?

Feel free to reread my post. I very specifically made no claims, I simply stated what I believe about some others. The difference being I did not write it as if it were a statement of fact, but specified it as what I see in my circles, and my own experience. There is a difference when it comes to having a discussion.

Baldrick.8967:

Your comments are even worse than any posters, in that all your argument seems to consist of is ’you’re not representative of the whole’, where clearly you are in a tiny minority yourself as regards people who post on these forums and indeed on other forums too.

I do not know if I am a tiny minority or not. That is my point, thank you for agreeing. Know one here can know what goes on with everyone else’s playtime, other then the metrics Anet has. Yet so many with no metric at all are proclaiming them to be wrong.

I am simply suggesting that I do not know about their information, and neither does anyone else, so perhaps posters should avoid making disingenuous proclamations.

Baldrick.8967:

Your white knighting doesn’t change the fact that there are a pile of posts on the subject and apart from the usual one or two (or 6 ? not bothered counting) who defend everything Anet do no matter how absurd, the majority of posters are opposed to the idea of a change which wasn’t highlighted until literally the last minute- when surely they knew this was planned months ago as part of the pre launch planning phase.

Perhaps it would be best if you avoided name calling.

Didn’t they officially suggest that less then 10% of players have ever logged into the forums? I hardly feel 500 or so of the negative feedback here even comes close to representing the community across 72+ servers. I see half to three quarters of that in player count on my server alone, in game on a Sunday evening. I have posted screenshots of the queues to support that recently.

That suggest to me that the posters on this thread are not even 1% of the game play community who are concerned about it so little, that they do not bother posting. But this is just my opinion based on my perspective.

Baldrick.8967:

Bringing it up in the last week before it actually changes just smacks of cynicism and a lack of any thought as to how wvw operates or respect for those affected.

Your welcome to presume that. I do not know why you would.

Seems to me like a crunch time decision to intelligently have the manpower available at the times their official metrics suggest they should. I am not entirely sure why anyone wouldn’t want the game properly supported.

Baldrick.8967:

Not to mention the actual reasons given, that they want to have as many on hand to deal with problems and bugs for the rest of the game, shows that wvw is way down the list when it comes to fixing anything- as has been the case for the last three years (think wvw achievements…).

Seems to me like a crunch time decision to intelligently have the manpower available at the times their official metrics suggest they should. I am not entirely sure why anyone wouldn’t want the game properly supported.

Baldrick.8967:

So are they keeping a pile of people on specifically to deal with the many issues that will crop on on Saturday reset night, meaning those people are now going to be working through Saturday night and into Sunday, rather than Friday into Saturday, or will wvw just be ignored until people get back in the office Monday?

I don’t know. I do know they said WvW would be a main focus after release, and they feel it is wise to have the reset moved to work with the expansion. I feel they know more about what they are doing and why, then any poster here.

Baldrick.8967:

Don’t see how it helps in the smooth deployment of wvw at all, given that a lot of the bugs in skills and such will come out of combat against other players rather than spamming 1 against some meaningless npc boss thing.

Lets not make this a “bash PvE” issue. PvE players could suggest it is better then your mindless blobbing in which you spam 1 against another mindless blob. Both game modes have value. I suspect many posters play both. No reason to make it a one or the other issue.

kefro.9312:

Isn’t this a little to late now arena net?
My experience on running private wow servers is that if you add a new expantion to a low population game you will divide even more your comunity, the players will go gvg others will go wvw and ultimatly will make both things even more empty.
Unless this is some kind of beta test for gw3 maby… i dont even know what are your intentions anymore…
Can some one help my to understand?

Historically an expansion to any MMO bring back a very large portion of previous players who stopped playing, as well as bringing in a large influx of new players. As well, the new free to play aspect is drawing players into the game who are trickling into WvW.

Kanebrake.6192:

On weekends most people do not have the luxury of sitting around in front of a computer all day. They work, they take care of things around the house, they visit friends and other family, they run errands. They catch up with life and responsibilities.

Most people work weekends?

They do not have life and responsibilities on Friday evenings? Kids to feed, bath, get to bed? Friends to go out and do things with?

Most people I know, Are free during the weekend days, and busy every evening. The difference is, I do not presume to believe that my experience represents the entire world, as you appear to me to be trying to do, nor should you presume and project that on the rest of the world.

I do not know what everyone is doing, and neither do you. The difference is you claim to tell us what they have going on, with no real facts to support that. That is not a productive presumption to make for a feedback discussion.

Atoss.1056:

I base it on my opinion that most WvW players are people ranging from school students to working ppl, who spend their weekdays from morning to afternoon in school/work and evenings at gaming/other..

Yes, your opinion, but you state it as a declaration of fact.

Atoss.1056:

Why I think it’s correct or close to truth? “Where are your queues during middle of day then?” Now is your time to acknowledge it and realize “Oh he might be right”…
I’m sure Anet has even more data about player activity during 24hrs and every day of the week..

Whose queues? Yours or mine? I see queues on two maps on Saturday at noon, regularly.

Atoss.1056:

No idea where you take these 5ninenineninenineninenine999nine numbers from, but it just makes you look even more funny and points out that you are really mad or disappointed. I understand you though..

I take that number from the general population of the world being known to be approximately 6 billion.

Not sure how you feel it makes me look. Perhaps it would serve the discussion best if you avoided making presumptuous accusations. If you want to know my state of mind, feel free to ask. Presuming to claim to know what the rest of the world, my self included, is not really based on any facts that I am aware of.

Perhaps posters should stick to speaking for themselves, as it is the only opinion or perspective they can truly know.

Atoss.1056:

I don’t read every topic or every post, but your claim about ‘too many posters disingenuously claiming to tell us what people whom they know nothing about, in places they have never been, are thinking, feeling, or wanting’ maybe comes because ‘there simply is more ppl willing to accept the changes’ than you might think.

I was referring to this thread specifically.

I hope more are willing to accept the changes. I do not see a problem with the changes at all. As I see it, when a match begins or ends is essentially irrelevant. The duration is the same regardless. I feel what players do in that time is what matters, not when it begins and ends. Based on what I bolded in that statement, it appears you agree?

Atoss.1056:

My only problem was the ‘time’ of the day, because most ppl are busy during day time and have free evenings, that’s all.

What do you base this claim on? Who are “most people”? Why would they have free evenings and not free days, on a weekend? What metric are you using to claim and state what the other 5,999,999,999 people in the world do?

As I see it, this is a common theme in this thread that is problematic. Too many posters disingenuously claiming to tell us what people whom they know nothing about, in places they have never been, are thinking, feeling, or wanting.

Artaz.3819:

Until GW2 follows suit with other MMOs and provides diminishing returns on hard CC, this will always be an issue of Stab either too up or too down in large player encounters.

Like which ones?

My experience suggest very few use this bad mechanic because most players dislike having the value of their skills diminished for random arbitrary reasons.

GreyWraith.8394:

Personally I’ve hated the stab change because it changed WvW from a hectic melee smashfest into a cautious pirateshipy tippytoe-dance.

I do not see that. At least it is not the experience I have on my servers. I feel you are likely over exaggerating and assuming your experiences in this are the case on the other 72+ servers

GreyWraith.8394:

From a balance perspective I won’t argue against it. One stab used to counter an infinite number of CCs and now it is more balanced.

Yeah, that is where it was a problem for me. Personally, I see logic in making changes to large AoE CCs when stab was changed.

GreyWraith.8394:

The problem is we’ve only shifted what was OP because CCs like static field can CC an infinite number of players. That’s just as unbalanced as the old stab was.

Yeah, as I said above, I must restate here, personally, I see logic in making changes to large AoE CCs when stab was changed.

cillard.3986:

I am sorry you arent happy that people are this upset, but the truth is you gave us a preposterous alternative to help sell an already horrible one.

As I see it, the people" who are not upset, are simply the same %1 or less spamming the same thread over and over regurgitating similar complaints. That hardly shows any representation of “the people”’s perspective.

cillard.3986:

Your metrics on this are absolutely wrong

Proof?
What metrics are you using to determine your counterclaim?

cillard.3986:

This is a huge hit to the WvW community and the only real reason you gave us is because it is more convenient for you.

And?
If you were forced to work an extra day a week because a small subsection of your customers were spamming complaints, would you find it reasonable?

This particular thread seems to be filled with a lot of assumptions, personal projections, and misconceptions in my opinion.

Perhaps those who make such stern claims about how a reset time or day change will effect their lives, should step back and reevaluate their life.

It seems clear at this point that moving reset to Saturday is non-negotiable for the time being. While this may upset many people, I think this is one of those times where we need to cut Anet some slack. They are pushing out their first expansion and want as many developers to be available as possible during the weeks post-launch to fix the inevitable series of bugs and exploits that come with any new content.

Is it a major inconvenience to some, yes. Is this the end of WvW, absolutely not. The sky is not falling people; the game will still run all seven days, whether you give up on some of them as “karma train days” or not. And as was stated, it may only be temporary.

Also, to those stating that this is a terrible change because of even more bloated queues, you do realize you are making a case FOR Anet to do this right? The idea of readjusting the server population caps was to spread people out and long queues would do just that.

Samis.1750:

Nobody is belittling your contribution. Most players realize that your contribution is immense, holding waypoints when outnumbered, etc.

With respect to PPT/score, it is difficult to make a decent argument as to why off hours scoring should be equal across time zones since the vast majority of players on NA servers play during NA time. A server gets 15 new NA players and it is no big deal. A server gets 15 new OCX or SEA and the balance of power shifts.

This is why JQ has been the number 1 server for years. They’re rarely ahead after reset (at least when I was in tier 1 on TC), but they cap stuff when everybody else goes to bed.

To rephrase the question, scorewise – why should 15 players in Australia, Taiwan or Singapore count more than 15 players in the US or Canada? California and Ontario have more legislative seats than Delaware and Nove Scotia – so why not weigh the scoring by time period?

You are very much inaccurate in your statements here, as well as contradictory. Are your claims based on personal experience and conversations in TS with the players?

My guild has general 20-25 players on all night, who work night shift. I know because 15+ of them are my coworkers. We play late at night in the time your inaccurately claiming Australia, Taiwan or Singapore players are making the only difference. We have others we play with who are late night players due to their work schedule.

Dusk.4708:

cool, I keep that in mind, anyone else got something to add to any of this? The more info the better for everyone, not just me

Well it depends on if your building for solo roaming, small group roaming, back line zerg build or front line zerg build. A little direction with what your looking for would aid in assisting you a fair amount.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Jayne.9251:

Blah, no wonder the red names stay away.

Any single change results in mass protest.

Lack of change results in mass protest.

They can’t win.

And who’s fault is that?

They neglected WvW since launch, not us!
We’ve given them great ideas, but they implemented their own awful ideas instead.
Any red post will be met with much criticism now, even if it’s the best thing for WvW. We simply do not believe in Anet any more.

I think “we” have given them some ideas, yeah. Personally I feel most of them are not nearly as good as many think. Many of them were down right bad ideas.

None the less, the WvW scoring week will have the same amount of days in it either way. it seems to me that way too many are over reacting, as well as putting to much artificial value on playing at reset.

Alekt.5803:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Grenades can be reflected before impact just fine.

Tell that to my Magnetic Aura, because it does not reflect it.

That is your fault.

Grenades, as well as mortar are a slow arcing angle. Simply because you have an active reflect doesn’t mean anything. If your not putting your reflect into the path of the grenades before the impact the terrain, that is your fault. Do not expect thing to be so passive in this case, because that will not work for you. You are required to move in a manner that reflects the grenades/mortar before they impact the ground near your feet. If you expect your reflect to just bounce them back with poor positioning, may I remind you that they only have to be close, like the old saying goes.

illenos.5134:

1) Learn to think like a mesmer, use destealth traps at the right time and start to treat your engis right. They are the most awesome mesmer hunters out there. It’s hilarious how fast PU mesmer die to them.

What engineer build are you suggesting is particularly strong at killing a PU mesmer build?

Chaba.5410:

Like, there’s other GOOD reasons for why weighted PPT might not be a good solution. Attacking the idea as “unequal” is not one of them. How weighted PPT might be used to game the system, how it would affect the gaming experience when populations are at the border of triggering the weighted PPT scoring system, on the other hand is.

No, it actually is a very good reason to attack it.

When you have a section of the community that believes giving different scoring values based on bias reasons, as equal, then it is important to educate them.

Dawdler.8521:

No it wouldnt. Scaled back PPT would be based on total population. Even if we make “50% PTT” below 20% max population, thats still around 200 players across all borders and servers.

What does that have to do with the argument that it is not equal? Unless you literally have those numbers spread out equally, it is an unequal scoring system.

Besides, what difference does it make if the total population outside of prime time is say 20% of peak times? As long as all 3 servers have around 20% of their peak, then the population is equal.

Frenk.5917:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Canceling a cast is basically using an exploit for self benefit. If you do not care for a skills function, don’t use it. I see no reason to change stow weapon or swap weapon to support skipping the designed effect.

Its not exploit: you can do it by pressing “esc”, but thats clunky since it can cause the menu to pop up. Moreover, canceling casts is not only because you dont want to use that ability but it also helps you to bait dodges (cast magnet, press esc, giggle at your enemy dodging the air).

That is precisely what an exploit is. Your exploiting a function to do those things you listed. Changes in the past to skill canceling effect have suggested to me that it is not intentional or by design, as they have changed the skills function due to this act.

My point is, l do not support making a change for this reason and what I mentioned in my previous post. You do not have to like my view on this. That does not change the fact that I am against what your complaining about and asking for.

Canceling a cast is basically using an exploit for self benefit. If you do not care for a skills function, don’t use it. I see no reason to change stow weapon or swap weapon to support skipping the designed effect.

Chaba.5410:

Servers like JQ, SoS, DB, and IoJ historically fall into the category of servers that do not have a majority NA Prime population. I’d argue that the scoring system is a contributing factor to those servers’ need for NA players after three years since launch! The NA population on those servers struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating just as the OCX population on servers like Mag, FA, and YB struggle to be competitive. The truth of the matter is that it isn’t fun to be severely outnumbered or to severely outnumber no matter which timezone you play in. The uglier truth is that most lone guilds are not willing to take the risk to be the first to try to equalize the population (there are rare exceptions) and some actually enjoy outnumbering the opponent because it makes winning easier. No one likes not being able to call for reinforcements..

I do not believe you know what your talking about. You make some dishonest statements. For example, JQ has the most T1 first place wins of any server to date. Then you claim they “struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating”. How is the number 1 tier struggling? How is the number 1 server on the number 1 tier struggling? That doesn’t make any sense at all.

The oddest thing to me, is that you make a lot of claims blaming the glicko, then every argument you use to back it up is one about population and player base scheduling.

Chaba.5410:

Players, particularly the more competitively minded GvG players, have made attempts to create equalized populations, going so far as to use spreadsheets to ensure the NA timezone can remain competitively equal (reference semi-recent T2 exodus to T3). The effect of that though is stagnation of matches, which can also be undesirable.

Your drifting out of the realm of speaking out of a lack of subject knowledge into the realm of pure fabrication at this point.

Some server get some guilds transferring off of them and fall. It was player to player issue. In know way did it have anything to do with the mythical spread sheet your claiming.

If players were organized and hive minded enough to make this mythical spreadsheet
“have made attempts to create equalized populations, going so far as to use spreadsheets to ensure the NA time zone can remain competitively equal” then we would not have steep population imbalances.

Macilien.3078:

Few people take longer to build a house than many, the point of a scaled tick is that everyone is able to contribute equally. The point of the rating system is to determine fair and fun matchups, but this is much harder if people that are around during low activity count much more than people who are around during high activity..

Not sure you understand how that math works or that you understand what equal means in this case.
If you want to use really bad analogies like building a house. Lets call the points your pay. You asking players to take less pay for the same real estate.

Robert.6790:

If you can’t survive being attacked by a thief, then you probably are not very skilled. For a lot of the players who complain about thieves being OP, they are probably the same people who, when they see a non-stealth class running at them in wvw, choose to run away. Yes, if you’re not a skilled player it’s annoying to get killed by someone you can’t just run away from in advance of the fight.

you seem confused in my opinion. It appears to me that the complaints are not about the thief directly, but thee stealth abuse they can be capable of at times.

Example :

https://youtu.be/nfsylqFPJuE

https://youtu.be/jpOb3YO0p8c

Chaba.5410:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Chaba.5410:

dancingmonkey.4902:

By demonstrating their efforts are worth lesser of a point value, and thus punishing them for it.

Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that non-peak player efforts are of equal worth to peak players? If the efforts are not currently equal, how do they become of lesser worth?

Claims? You appear confused. I never made any claims my friend. I simply stated “in my experience……..”. I rather specifically qualified each post I made with one statement or another expressing that my comments were my opinion based on my experience.

I didn’t address your “in my experience” line which is not even from the post I quoted. Nowhere in the post of yours I quoted did you qualify anything. You appear rather confused. I understand. In PvP parlance, your rhetoric style is called dodging.

Tell us how non-peak player efforts are of equal worth to peak player efforts in the current system. How is 30 players spending three hours to cap a single keep equal in points to 10 players capping an entire borderland in 10 minutes? Maybe you’ll have a leg to stand on when you say that weighting PPT by population creates inequality instead of dodging all the time.

I never said it was equal, it is irrational in my opinion to suggest that much is “equal” in WvW with consistent changes in the rivals player counts and professions they are using at any given moment. Not to mention the same happening with the population of friendlies. I simply suggest that as a general rule, your example is an unreasonable over exaggeration. On the 8 servers I play on, I have never seen 10 players have free reign to do that with out resistance, on any sort of regular basis.

I am not sure what your getting at about dodging, it is a major game mechanic, why wouldn’t I dodge? I am certain you are rather confused to suggest I need your approval in some form in order to have a leg to stand on though. I am simply speaking on my experience, your delving fairly deeply into rare and extreme hypotheticals and extreme hyperbole.

Adamantium.3682:

I don’t see it ever happening, and that’s fine by me. I don’t see a future in which we have no cooldown kits and weapon swap, so that choice is pretty easy for me to make.

This echo’s my sentiment fairly well. I mentioned what we would lose, and saw some arguments asking why we have to lose anything. The thing is, I am not suggesting what we should or shouldn’t lose. I am suggesting experience has demonstrated the dev team will inevitably decide we will lose something, like it or not.

Chaba.5410:

dancingmonkey.4902:

By demonstrating their efforts are worth lesser of a point value, and thus punishing them for it.

Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that non-peak player efforts are of equal worth to peak players? If the efforts are not currently equal, how do they become of lesser worth?

Claims? You appear confused. I never made any claims my friend. I simply stated “in my experience……..”. I rather specifically qualified each post I made with one statement or another expressing that my comments were my opinion based on my experience.

As well, I feel your way off base to assume off peak hours players do not invest equal effort of peak players. There is almost always resistance. Similar to how you can be against much larger forces on various days in peak hours, there are fluctuations going all three ways in off peak hours.

Have you ever regularly played in what would be considered off peak hours on your server?

The Ace.9105:

I noticed that you can stomp downed enemies while using Elixir S. Is this intentional?

You must have taken some serious beating from engineers over this beta weekend. You made 2 separate threads demanding nerfs to skills in which you describe their functionality completely incorrectly,

What’s worse, all your post suggest you play a D/D ele, worse then that, you demand eles are under powered, need a buff, and demand a special “ele only” amulet.

In my opinion, you are not offering reasonable complaints, your offering bias demands that only favor you. That is no way to go about having a balance discussion.

The Ace.9105:

This is the first time I’ve played engi and I lived in this beautiful reality of every invuln skill being as bad as mist form but apparently that’s not the case.

Bad as mist form? Engineers cannot gain might, regeneration, vigor, and a 66% movement speed buff, simply by going into their form, like elementalist can.

Geez, now that you make me look at it, they sure need to nerf mist form.

The Ace.9105:

You can’t dodge through Slick Shoes

You mean you can’t dodge through slick shoes. I most certainly assure you others can. I know, I see them do it. I do it myself. It can be done. It appears you are demanding a nerf about effects you do not fully understand yourself. That is not particularly wise in my opinion.

Doug.4930:

SM Mass stealth Fountain. Why Anet why?

Because post after post, in thread after thread, posters aimlessly complain and demand a change. Yet the vast majority offer no reasonable suggestion or idea as to what kind of change. When posters repeatedly demand changes and offer repeated complaints about what they have now, they get a change. It is the old, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Dawdler.8521:

dancingmonkey.4902:

By demonstrating their efforts are worth lesser of a point value, and thus punishing them for it.

I would argue that the effort of taking an undefended keep with 4 Omega golems in 5 minutes is worth less than spending 2 hours draining supplies, killing siege and just generally trying to get in a keep defended by 60 people, 10 arrowcarts, 4 trebs, 2 catapults and that one guy spamming emotes all the time.

But what do I know, nothing I guess.

If you desire to discuss issues with siege, please make a separate thread for that.

The taking of a keep is the fault of the defending community. It seems irrational to me to justify punishing players for taking a keep, simply because no one arrived to defend it.

Macilien.3078:

dancingmonkey.4902:

That is a suggestion, it is by no means a solution. It will do little more then drive players away from the game who cannot play on each servers peak hours. By demonstrating their efforts are worth lesser of a point value, and thus punishing them for it.

Their efforts may be worth less than they are now, but the entire point of tick scaling is to make sure that every indivudual can have the same impact and those who can raze t3s while nobody else is around still are a great advantage for a server, because they don’t have to take these t3s while it’s heavily defended.
As it is now people who can’t play when their server needs more coverage are punished.

That is not their fault. That is the defending servers fault. Nor does a tower need to be “heavily” defended. As well, those who cannot play when their server needs defending are not punished. Because the rule set does not change in a way that targets them. The suggestion you are supporting changes the rules to specifically segregate and punish others for the playing the game, simply because it isn’t the same time you play. Unless you offer a solution that does not biasly segregate others, your are going to not only push players out of the game, but you will get heavy pushback. Perhaps instead of arguing this terrible idea, it would be best served to focus that effort on finding a good idea.

Manuhell.2759:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Right, and kits are effectively the class mechanic, so if those get nerfed we have a bit of a problem/revolt on our hands.

Better do it soon than later. Any elite spec they plan to do just further increases the amount of work they’ll have to do to rebalance all the utilities and weapons once kits are finally made as optional as they should be. Since right now anything must be balanced over the assumption of their use, and thus forcing their use instead.
And while you talk about nerfing, it’s just a matter of effectively rebalancing the whole class. Some things would be nerfed, others would be buffed.

No, better to not do it at all. As I see it, this is a bad idea. So bad in my opinion, that I would rather see what the same dev team that thought we needed another AI utility set, can do to find a solution, rather then go with this profession crushing suggestion.

It has been around since long before this beta. It doesn’t knock you down for 8s. You can dodge out of it, or use any movement skill. It is very situational, and has a very long cool down. It can be walked right past with stability. Personally I think it needs the opposite, and should be buffed by lowering the cool down.

Macilien.3078:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Indeed. That is part of the problem as I see it. Some posters seem to make the inaccurate assuption that what they see in their tier is what happens to everyone. There are what, 70 servers after the China release? So why posters think thier experience with 3, 6, or even 9 servers, come close to representing all servers, is beyond me.

It doesn’t really matter that it’s only a problem in some tiers and not in all. The solution that was suggested to scale the tick based on active population means that the points are in relation to the amount of players that participate, so if your tier has coverage for all time zones it will hardly influence you, while solving a big problem for other tiers.

That is a suggestion, it is by no means a solution. It will do little more then drive players away from the game who cannot play on each servers peak hours. By demonstrating their efforts are worth lesser of a point value, and thus punishing them for it.

Part of the issue is that you seem to be unaware of what the entire problem is. You specifies “tiers” for example. Well if tiers had similar player distribution over similar times, the off time point accumulation wouldn’t be an issue now would it? the tiers themselves are irrelevant. The player participation imbalance throughout various time frames are what the complaint seems to be here. That is not a tier to tier issue, because if it was equal across a tier, their would be no complaint. It happens between servers within a tier.

The issue would be made worse with the suggestion your promoting. Forcing a lower value during another players time, because it is not consistent with your play time, displays an intended devaluation of the other players time online. Disincentivising their play time. All that does is make player outside of each servers so called prime time, lose their desire to play. Your suggestion will inevitably push players out of the game in my opinion.

Ansau.7326:

reddie.5861:

EU is mainly +1 gmt thus if u take +1 gmt as prime time from let say 19:00 till 00:00 and after that u change the ticks in a way that capping stuff doesnt make the

Here is where you make the biggest mistake you could. Settling a prime time based on what you’re used is just plain wrong.
I’m from Spain and here the prime time is from 10pm to 3am CET. Then you need to count English and Portuguese people who live in CET -1. Then all Russian people who play CET +1 or even more. Then…

The same way you want score to stop after midnight, I want it to stop after 3am… Don’t you realize how selfish is this?

Indeed. That is part of the problem as I see it. Some posters seem to make the inaccurate assuption that what they see in their tier is what happens to everyone. There are what, 70 servers after the China release? So why posters think thier experience with 3, 6, or even 9 servers, come close to representing all servers, is beyond me.