Guild Wars 2

Dikeido.8436:

Azreell.1568:

1)GW2 you were forced to log in during a 2 week period or miss the content forever. That seems a lot more strict in terms of whats “required” for content

2)Your mount sentence was quoted exactly as you implied it. Do not use statements if you don’t want them quoted back in exactly the context you posted them in.

3)Wow has just as much exploration as GW2. If standing on top of and clicking F is your definition of exploration Webster’s would like a word with you.

4)You continually bash Wow and try to use it to enforce a positive light on GW2. Both games have merits and both games are flawed. But, as it stands right now Wow offers for more to both casuals and hard core players then GW2.

You obviously have a misconception about my remarks on these forums. I simply tell it like it is in hopes then Anet get’s it’s head out of its you know what and does something with this game.

The game is loosing players whether you like to admit it or not. I myself enjoy the game but am also realistic about what it offers and what it doesn’t.

People have to be honest and realize that Anet has to do something and do it soon to keep people interested because when I logged on today the game was almost identical to when I log on the game a year ago.

That is a VERY large problem.

1) How did GW2 force you to log in every 2 week? Did they put a gun to your head, they threaten to harm you pet hamster etc….?
1b) Did you do any research at all before buying GW2 or did you like many others simply bought GW2 because of the hype? I ask this because you seem to not know that LS is new content every 2 week and is now hating on it.

2) Having to pay full price+expansion and a monthly sub and still I have to fork out more $$$ for CASH-SHOP item, be it mount or toilet paper that’s just GREEDY.

3) I’m not even going to bother with this one.

4) Go and buy a brand new WOW account then get to max level+RAID gear while playing as a DPS. Oh no you don’t get the luxury of play as a Tank/Heal, you get the luxury of spamming LF tank/heal. Do this without any friend or guild help. Also you must play it without any ADDON. Get back to me when you are done. Most of the time when people claim its so easy or its not a grind, that’s because they are getting carry.

I’m not hating on any game I just play the one that is most enjoyable to me.

^never heard of the addon oQueue. Addons are part of the game. They always have been. Theres literally millions of people who do not have a problem with this. If you do, you’re just short changing yourself and not using tools available to you. You know what addons show? It shows a thriving community of people involved with the game. Should I now use any mods for Skyrim because they aren’t coming directly from the official devs? Moddable games are IN. Sorry if that’s news to you. Minecraft, Skyrim, CounterStrike, etc all have proven time and time again that giving the toolset to your community builds that community. If you don’t like people judging you by dps meters, then don’t raid with kittenheads.

Sorry brah, WoW isn’t like it was back in the day. It’s quite easy to jump in and go do something. I know, I know..most of you don’t want to see all that…afterall, it completely destroys all your arguments. So, just for the sake of it we’ll continue to act like it’s the same version of WoW from almost a decade ago.

On topic: Wildstar is dope. It’s got the action combat, the sick looking gear, and the trinity (thank god for teamwork, I’m so glad no other developer is copying this horrible design aspect from ArenaNet, opinions will vary but personally I feel other games not picking that philosophy up speaks wonders).

The art style may be a little over the top for some. I don’t mind it. The PvP is awesome and ORGANIZED. It has Housing…completely customizeable housing. When I can build a house, go to a dungeon..slay a boss..and take his head and hang it up on a wall in my house…that’s dope.

Anyway, obviously it’s not for everyone. Personally I can’t even believe people still play this game I find it so boring, but to each their own. I hope one day they overhaul some things to keep it interesting. See GW2 is the type of game where I don’t even understand why they even have stats on gear. It’d probably work better if all the gear in the game was solely aesthetic and the real diversity came from traits and skillsets, but hey that’s just me. I did like the jumping puzzles and will continue to come back to do that tho. That’s one area I can give GW2 an A+.

Recon.9461:

Whatever happened to the idea of all the “items” that are in the gem store would also available/attainable through regular game play drops. And by “items” I am referring to the items under the “Style,” “Services,” “Special,” “Boosts,” and “Toys” tabs.

Thing is, as many fanboys would tell you, they technically get away with it because you can convert gold to gem and earn gold through gameplay.

Funny side of this is the Diablo franchise recently tried the same thing. Oh, we’ll just make the drops during gameplay horrific so that people will farm gold instead and use the auction house to get geared up. Nevermind the fact that half the appeal was getting awesome drops from the actual gameplay and not making “currency” the top priority (making it feel more grindy than ever). Since then they have corrected their mistake, but a tad too late.

ArenaNet obviously designed this system to be very similar in that people find it most rewarding to grind currency then actually feeling good about getting drops at a decent rate. However, they don’t seem to even recognize it as a problem. Personally, I feel that fixing the loot system would do wonders in making the actual gameplay intriguing and not a snoozefest, train-riding, speed-clearing gold grind.

Vol.7601:

TIL there is no gold/gem exchange in GW2

I love how this is how anet is justified in making possibly the worst loot system in mmo history.

warbreaker.8154:

I played the content once and haven’t logged back in since. I can’t think of a better word for it than “flaccid.”

ArenaNet PLEASE fire your writers. I don’t want to believe this schlock was written a year in advance. I can’t believe it. It is utterly unbelievable.

I think this is what does it for me the most. I’ve come to terms a long time ago with how this game will always be this zergy, dps-timer, artificial difficulty type of gameplay. There’s other games I can go to for a challenge so I accept it for what it is….

However the writing for this content is so bad that I think screenwriters for mid-90s WB sitcoms could’ve done better. In comparison to how well the stories were written for GW1, this garbage can’t even hold a candle to it. It honestly makes me feel like I’m trying to decipher a 9th grader’s lit essay that they hastily wrote the morning it was due.

F

to solve your issue…get together with a group of like minded individuals who have the same goal as you (raid)..find an empty overflow if you can (instance)..get on teamspeak and collaborate and it should be cake getting the achievement.

Honestly tho…. what do you expect from developers that are openly against raiding? Instead they create half kitten ’ed versions and put a different name on it. They only have one or two mechanics they can even work with. My point is there will always be the kill timers making it a dps race because that’s their only option to make anything difficult.

honestly what do you expect from them? it’s been clear to me for a long time that they don’t posses the skills to create enticing content that doesn’t turn into a zergfest. So my advice is to just blindly dodge here and there while spamming 1 on your guardian staff.

Phoenixlin.8624:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I don’t even try to explain why OP and you and your kind of players should stop whining and learn to move on. Complete waste of time.

But anyways, if you don’t like it don’t do it. There are 902734929482 things you can do in game, and you can easily ignore one world boss among them. Life is too short for whining about one difficult world boss.

And, I do agree Wurm has the worst rewards in this game (effort/time wasted vs. reward ratio) and because of bad rewards people won’t return to Wurm, after they get their all achievements. None of the exclusive stuff are nice, probably the worst designed armor pieces and it is not even a full armor set, just 3 part of it. You may say only mini wurm is nice and it is nice because you can sell it for 2k gold.

I should also say that I almost stopped doing Wurm after 1 week. I still need body achievements (my last one) but my problem is mostly leecher guests in Desolation.

Leecher guests = Instead of organizing or participating an organized group in their server, players that guest to another high populated server to use its organization for themselves.

Your entire ideology epitomizes what most people came to this game to escape.
It’s funny how so many people are so up in arms against instanced raids and choose to deal with this kind of attitude instead.

Now we are all ‘leechers’…a burden on other people. Might as well just call anyone who uses the guesting service a hobo. Am I right? Nevermind the fact that servers say full even though they are not and that organizing a group on many of these servers is logistically impossible. No…we’re just leechers.

Why would anyone want to play a game if you have to deal with this? Being called a leecher just because you want to get involved? Honestly? Why would you use your free time to be treated that way? I’m not. The whole ethos of this game is jacked, and the quoted post is a perfect example of that.

Sucks…but world events are so different than raids lol

Sicarius.4639:

Never had a greater feeling of community than when we downed the Wurm.

The support, time, effort, words of encouragement and general good vibes and feelings for 150+ people trying to achieve something no one else has done was euphoric.

Not everyone could sit there for hours on end, it gave new players a chance to stand next to “veterans” of the encounter on multiple occasions, something that is much harder to do in an instances.

Was that your first time raiding or something? Why exactly do you think raids are popular to begin with?

It’s really not harder at all in instanced raiding. In fact, without such a lengthy respawn timer it gives people more of a chance to teach other people the fights. People ge tthis misconception that all raiding guilds are elitist jerks… like they all are led by pro streamers who nerd rage if you forgot your flask… it really isn’t like that tho for the majority of guilds.

Anyway I’m glad you defeated the worm..that’s cool. I don’t see how it’s any different than an instanced raid. See, by manipulating overflows so you could all be together what you did was effectively ‘instance’ that fight anyway. There’d be literally no difference if you all walked through a raid instance. Well I guess the one difference would be you wouldn’t be able to just die and keep respawning and running back without resetting the fight.

Open world, at least in my opinion, means that this big kitten encounter/boss spawns and all the people in that area doing things see it happen and come together to kill it..on the spot. Waiting around for a spawn..gathering on TS or mumble or vent…none of that. Thats what people do in instanced raids. Open world should be spur of the moment epic encounters…which this game obviously just can’t possibly do because that just isn’t the nature of mmo-gamers. Instead of having people already out there doing something so that they’d be around if the boss spawned, they need to use the boss as the reason you even go out there.

The size of the raid? I suppose thats different. It sure does present a lot of pretty particle effects.

Ah… I see that the same 5 or 6 fanboys are still whiteknighting all day on the forums. You’d think after saying the same things repeatedly they’d learn by now.

Anyway, as for the OP… Let’s just say it was an expected disappointment. Logging in after 5 months and seeing it’s pretty much the same issues in every event…At this point in time I wouldn’t expect this dev team to learn anything. Might as well find a game with better support.

the underlying problem is that profit is the most important thing in this game due to everything being revolved around the trading post. Until they fix that, well..that’s just how it will be for most players. Sure, there are plenty of nice people out there that will run with you, but the others are about a dime a dozen.

new gem store rng box with a .01% chance at a weapon skin ticket in it and a 99.99% of garbage

chemiclord.3978:

dcypher.2590:

15 bucks might be a lot to some people, who am I to criticize that, but to me..it is barely anything. It literally cost my girlfriend and I 30 bucks to go see gravity in 3D over the weekend. It was great, but it’s not like I can walk into that theater all month long and watch it as many times as I want during that time. That’s just how I look at it. I’ve had many problems with world of warcraft, and I’ve subbed and unsubbed more times than I can count since 2006, but it was never about the money…it was about other things about the game.

My problem with sub fees is that (at least to me), I find myself forcing myself to play to make that month’s investment worth it. It doesn’t matter whether I like the content provided that month, it’s $15 out of my pocket. If I play 200 hours that month, or 200 seconds; $15. If the guild officers are on vacation and we don’t do anything together for those weekends… yep. Still $15.

And the company can claim that I’m a proud subscriber on their fact sheets.

Whereas with a cash shop option; I can actually show my support for content I like. If I don’t like what GW2 offers that month… I don’t have to pay them a dime. If I approve, yeah, I’ll drop them $10 on something I want.

Never bought a Black Lion Key. Never bought a random mini-pack, or anything else from the Gem Store that’s tied to RNG.

But apparently a lot of people do; because they’re still there. A lot of people like that gamble, and I’m tired of trying to tell them they’re idiots. Oh well.

I mean if you are only going to play 200 seconds then you shouldn’t be subbed up. I’m not saying the best route to go is to buy 3 month time cards, I certainly don’t. I usually pay 15 bucks to play when patches come out and whenever I feel like I’m done I unsub again. I wasn’t trying to imply you should just blindly pay for time you don’t use. In comparison 15 bucks for entertainment, even just a couple hours, is relatively cheap.

Anyway, I wasn’t trying to argue that. It’s ok if you personally don’t want to pay a sub, but that doesn’t mean sub models don’t work. Everyone in the world is not subbed to Netflix, yet it still works. It’s not magic. The point I was trying to make is people will pay for quality games and quality games should not try to encompass every type of mmorpg player, rather they should focus on a handful of types and make those elements amazing instead of just sub-par because development and direction is spread out across the board.

Devata.6589:

The whole idea is that with the B2P you lose the RNG boxes you buy for real cash or have to grind grind grind to exchange gold for and all other negative side effects from the F2P model. In a way B2P is a P2P model but you do not pay per month but per expansion. Cash/shop would become more an optional thing where you can maybe buy a few special skins or stuff like extra bank slots and char slots.

But while in a way it is a P2P model you do not have the timer above your head and P2P models have failed for over the last 9 years. No MMO was able to hold it up longer then 2 years so we must conclude that P2P does not work.

Thats why I like B2P so much. It has best of two worlds and is a fair way because everybody pays for the content.

Companies don’t go for it because they think they will not make enough money and maybe on the short run they will make less (not so convinced of that tbo) I also think it has a longer life-spawn. Besides, a few years ago those companies did also not think they could make money with B2P and GW1 already proved that it can work.

I’m sorry, but are you trying to say RNG boxes aren’t in GW2 because it is B2P? Because they are quite clearly in this game (maybe not at this exact moment) as they were one of the main driving forces behind the southsun patch and you could definitely buy them off the gem store. That is the epitome of trying to milk the player base knowing people will buy bundles of them trying to get the tickets for weapon skins.

Then everyone argues with the irrefutable “well, they have to make money somehow” and I agree… However this is the exact reason I prefer to just pay a sub and not have these types of things in the game to begin with. Just have everything obtainable in the open world and that’s it. If you want it work for it, if you don’t then don’t. Sure you can farm all day long for the boxes to drop in the open world events but obviously they skewed the drop rates to be low enough that people would feel like they had to buy the boxes off the gem store before the event was over.

15 bucks might be a lot to some people, who am I to criticize that, but to me..it is barely anything. It literally cost my girlfriend and I 30 bucks to go see gravity in 3D over the weekend. It was great, but it’s not like I can walk into that theater all month long and watch it as many times as I want during that time. That’s just how I look at it. I’ve had many problems with world of warcraft, and I’ve subbed and unsubbed more times than I can count since 2006, but it was never about the money…it was about other things about the game.

Other games may not have had success because they aim to appease everyone at first, when really they should start with a lower expectation and work up from there. SWTOr is a good example of what not to do.. they created a game that is highly niche but was marketed in the beginning to gather as many people as possible. They set the bar too unrealistically high for themselves from the gate, which explains why they dumped a ton of money into building it to begin with, so of course they needed to get as many subs as they could to support a studio they put together with that kind of money, which didn’t work out so well.

WoW is not the only P2P game on the market… so saying the P2P model is dead is far from the truth. People subscribe to netflix.. people subscribe to PSN and Xbox live. People sub to a lot of things in their life. It’s not subscriptions that are dead..it’s the idea of trying to create a game that tries to cater to everybody instead of just a couple groups of people that is really dead. Look at what wildstar is doing..they are straight up about saying this content is for hardcore gamers…these dungeons will be hard..etc, etc. It’s pretty evident who they are targeting. On the other side of the spectrum look at Elder Scrolls..they have pulled a 180 for the most part and are now targeting hardcore elder scrolls fans and RPG fans.

Sorry for the rant, but TL;DR it’s not the payment model that’s dead…people will gladly pay for something that is worth the money. What is dead is the idea that an mmorpg needs to cater to every gamer instead of just a select few groups of gamers.

Devata.6589:

dcypher.2590:

Lonesamurai.4852:

Eurhetemec.9052:

Lonesamurai.4852:

So basically you’re saying most people who left GW2 want a WoW clone

Well they have one coming with Wildstar

Yep and yep. And right now at least WildStar is like WoW plus massive time requirements. Be interesting to see how that does with people with jobs/kids/friends.

I was genuinely gutted that Wildstar was going to be a standard pay to play sub game, it looks fantastic, and annoyingly, the dev from Wildstar I said that to after the gW2 dev chat at eurogamer was surprised to think anyone would want it free to play

Well, I feel you on not wanting to pay a sub. I wish the standard was more around 8 bucks a month instead of 15, but it’s kind of taking the good with the bad…free 2 play games, yes they are awesome they are free, but they are really just games that want to milk you for everything you are worth, nickel and dime.

In Wildstar thy are having an incredible player housing system and if it were a free to play game I bet most of the stuff to decorate, instead of going out in the world and finding, would just be sold off a store. Also, f2p games notoriously bring in the worst gamers imaginable. All said and done, I’d much rather pay a sub if it’s a good game than to deal with all the nickel and diming.

True. Luckily there is the even better system B2P where you pay the game with initial box sales and expansions.. You know the system that made ArenaNet and Guild Wars big. To bad they dropped it for GW2 and we not have the F2P model with all it’s negative side-effects.

Well I still have an issue with B2P…I guess it’s a little more convenient than f2p, but you can still see things like RNG boxes you buy for real cash or have to grind grind grind to exchange gold for. It’s just a bad system, imo. I’d rather them just take 15 bucks and not put any of that dumb stuff that makes them design everything around an auction house in the game. The games end up being all about the auction houses, trading posts, etc instead of the world.

The only thing I’ll say is I don’t see any game that’s copying GW2’s style of “roles”, that kind of speaks for itself. Roles give your character importance. In this game it’s kinda like come and go, do whatever…it doesn’t really make a difference if you are with us in this dungeon or not because you just don’t matter.

Lonesamurai.4852:

Eurhetemec.9052:

Lonesamurai.4852:

So basically you’re saying most people who left GW2 want a WoW clone

Well they have one coming with Wildstar

Yep and yep. And right now at least WildStar is like WoW plus massive time requirements. Be interesting to see how that does with people with jobs/kids/friends.

I was genuinely gutted that Wildstar was going to be a standard pay to play sub game, it looks fantastic, and annoyingly, the dev from Wildstar I said that to after the gW2 dev chat at eurogamer was surprised to think anyone would want it free to play

Well, I feel you on not wanting to pay a sub. I wish the standard was more around 8 bucks a month instead of 15, but it’s kind of taking the good with the bad…free 2 play games, yes they are awesome they are free, but they are really just games that want to milk you for everything you are worth, nickel and dime.

In Wildstar thy are having an incredible player housing system and if it were a free to play game I bet most of the stuff to decorate, instead of going out in the world and finding, would just be sold off a store. Also, f2p games notoriously bring in the worst gamers imaginable. All said and done, I’d much rather pay a sub if it’s a good game than to deal with all the nickel and diming.

My personal opinion on the matter is the loot system in GW2 is very unrewarding. The very, very few exotics I have ever had drop for me from playing a wide range of content were just so bad that the best thing to do with them was to salvage them. Kind of feels like Diablo where I just grind and grind and grind to get enough mats to craft something or enough gold to buy something off the TP. Very unsatisfying stuff.

If I could create a system for them, I would do something that at least is a lot more rewarding. I’d most definitely ban the possibility of green and blue gear with level 1 skins dropping at all for levels 80s. I’d also make specific rewards for specific things. For instance this jumping puzzle has a chance to drop this rare chestpiece. The chest piece would be designed to look like it belonged in that jumping puzzle… then I would attach lore to it, something like this chest piece was worn by the creator of this jumping puzzle or so on.. I’m just brainstorming. Giving meaning behind things would be a neat way to increase value to not only the piece of loot but the player’s time invested.

Anyway, I’m not holding my breath/ There are plenty of games that already feel rewarding on the market.

Justdeifyme.9387:

In the MMO I played before I had over 100 skills. I used 10-15 of them regularly while fighting.

100? What game was this?

To the OP, yea kinda knew that this would start to become boring eventually. Maybe they could come up with a system where you level up a move the more you use it and are able to unlock different styles or particle effects. I don’t know, maybe. I wouldn’t hold your breath for new moves altogether tho… They can barely balance the ones we already have.

Mirta.5029:

Meglobob.8620:

You have to view WoW separate from every other MMO because WoW is awesomely successful and no other MMO as ever got near it.

WoW’s subscription base does show a constant decline over a period of years but every time a new expansion comes out they regain several million players. So expansions, at least in WoW ATTRACT players.

Last time I checked WoW still had 8 million subscription players which is AWESOME and any other MMO would love…

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1325466-WoW-MoP-down-to-only-6-15-million-active-subscribers

Well currently it’s 7.7 million subscriptions and 6.5 million players that logged in at least once a week.

yea thats still pretty good and thats after an entire year + of the expansion being out. Whent he expansion hit it was well over 12 million. I wouldn’t expect Arenanet to copy these kinds of numbers because its an anomaly, but it still shows expansions bring in plenty of people, plus their other incentives like recruit a friend, battle chest, etc..

Galen Grey.4709:

TooBz.3065:

Wildstar works as a decent counter example to me because if they do what they say, the gear system will have more of what I don’t like about gw2 than gw2; however, I still prefer it and will probably play it.

Why? because I know what I’m getting into. If I play WS I will never create more than 1 character. I will pick a class / race / etc. and stick with that 1 toon for as long as I play the game.

Here, by the time VP was introduced I already had a number of different characters and was attached to each of them.

I think even the ascended grind is manageable iff I had only 1 character 1 played.

are you really sure? I mean the same reason to create an alt exist in WS as well. In WS you’ll never have BiS… so if you’re not happy with having 2nd best in Gw2, how can you be sure you will be happy in WS? I mean okey, I did say the gear system will have more stuff you dont like then gear system in Gw2 but still prefer it, thats a bit confusing can you perhaps share your thoughts on that one… You think you will be happy with it or simply perhaps find the ways to acquire gear more fun.. what makes something worst a better option?

This is so out of context. You’ll never have BiS? You’re kinda just throwing that around like it’s proven fact, when it’s not. Do they keep raising the roof? Yes. Does that mean BiS doesn’t exist? Not at all. People raiding heroics in WoW right now are getting Best in slot gear. When the next expansion comes out will it still be best in slot? No. Does that mean it isn’t best in slot right now? Not at all. They don’t just add a new tier without letting anyone know well in advance, which you are trying to make it sound like suddenly your armor isn’t the best in the game tomorrow. If it were truly like that, no one would ever strive for it.

Also, you’re going down a slippery slope because all it takes to void your entire argument is ArenaNet EVER adding another tier. Ever…in the entire lifespan.

I never felt the heart system was any better than the quest system. Sure, I guess it “free’s” you up to roam wherever, but for some people that also can be a bad thing, as in you easily get to a point where you are kinda just running around aimlessly without any goals. Also I feel the old questing system also makes you interact with villages and the sort a lot more than these hearts. Basically, with the hearts you can run through the entire game without talking to any of the people you are helping. To each their own, there are plenty of games with quests so I don’t feel this is an important issue for gw2. It’s just one of those things where you either like it or don’t, it still works.

Galen Grey.4709:

dcypher.2590:

Draco.2806:

Galen Grey.4709:

What happened is players were greedy…

What happened is that the game ended up having a pitiful amount of content for an MMO, most of it repetitive and not fun, with most rewarding kind being locked to absurd by-the-numbers grind in one-two high-level zones (one of which is terrible).

People never asked to be subjected to this barren wasteland like a stuck record. They asked for it to be improved, because there was room for improvement. But ANet seemingly didn’t listen. Since the end-game wasn’t enjoyable enough, many people who leveled out to 80 simply up and left.

Why you’re blaming players for ANet’s own failings to deliver on its own promise of level-agnostic content, horizontal progression, and hordes of content is beyond me.

Galen Grey.4709:

5 laurels, 20 laurels, 35 laurels or even 50 laurels is still something you earn by just playing the game.

This kind of logic as well.

30 days worth of quests for one of five trinkets? Even WoW would blush at this kind of nonsensical grind.

Honestly I think a huge part of it is how god awful the loot system in GW2 is. For some reason this mmo doesn’t have set loot tables, so people go to Orr and farm because they get everything all in the same place and virtually nothing from different areas. The champion runs finally gave a chance to get a specific skin from the boxes but the chance is so small even that is hardly worth wasting time on.

I feel people like games even if they have a gear grind like wow, swtor, rift, and soon to be wildstar because the loot systems make sense. This boss drops this stuff..go fight him for it. These other bosses drop this other stuff go fight him for it. In GW2 it’s kinda like fighting bosses and baddies and getting a pile of junk, like here ya go.

Yes and that was done on purpose to leave people free to play as they wish. No specific drops from specific mobs meant you didnt have to farm that mob to get that drop. They hoped rewards wouldnt be that important to people, content would be… That was a great idea which unfortunately didnt work out. People want their rewards and are not content unless those rewards feel valuable.

I mean this is just common sense to me, and I’m not into business design or anything of that sort, so I can’t see how it escaped their discussion that people would do this. Who knows, really. It isn’t at all innovative to me. I can’t assume they were sitting around the design table saying ‘hey lets go back to the days where people didn’t play for reward’. Seems very counterproductive in today’s market.

Mirta.5029:

Xcom.1926:

MoP brought at least 1 million additional subscribers. Eventually the subscribers went lower but MoP did bring them back.

The market is too competitive for games to retain players. No MMO is doing it, every MMO is losing players.

Did Mop really bring in one million players? Because all I’ve seen from blizzard since a bit after Cataclysm is a never ending drop.

Vaxx.3178:

People keep saying the Living World added a dungeon. Let me clear this up for you guys….

1. Replacing one path in an existing dungeon is not adding a dungeon to the game.
2. This content was finished for me personally in one run through, more or less in an hour.

yawn

I stand by my view on expansions. A good expansion gives more than all the temp content we have been given so far.

If you finish the path and don’t want to run it again, you would be one of those people that would finish an expansion in half a month and stand there demanding more.

Mop pushed subs from 9 million to 12 million and started dropping off again. You can google their revenue reports if you’d like though it’s a very messy read unless you’re into all that jargon.

Galen Grey.4709:

Draco.2806:

What happened is that the game ended up having a pitiful amount of content for an MMO, most of it repetitive and not fun, with most rewarding kind being locked to absurd by-the-numbers grind in one-two high-level zones (one of which is terrible).

People never asked to be subjected to this barren wasteland like a stuck record. They asked for it to be improved, because there was room for improvement. But ANet seemingly didn’t listen. Since the end-game wasn’t enjoyable enough, many people who leveled out to 80 simply up and left.

Why you’re blaming players for ANet’s own failings to deliver on its own promise of level-agnostic content, horizontal progression, and hordes of content is beyond me.

This kind of logic as well.

30 days worth of quests for one of five trinkets? Even WoW would blush at this kind of nonsensical grind.

Pitiful amount of content? Are you kidding? 1100 hours now and i still havent seen all the game has to offer. 7 full zones I didnt even start yet much less seen every dynamic event, found every jumping puzzle, found every hidden secret, did every skill challenge, found my way to every vista, checked out the story of every NPC, etc….

Why am I blaming the players and not Arenanet, because Arenanet delivered all of that. There is plenty of level agnostic content thanks to downleveling. There is ton of content! Even stuff thats unheard of in other MMOs at least prior to it being revealed by Gw2. Which other MMOs had at least 6x the zones / quests / content required to get to max level at launch? None… which other MMOs had JPs? None, which other MMOs had hidden content for those who like exploring, ton of stuff that most players are never going to see cause its all well hidden outside the beaten path? None that I Am aware off.

Arenanet delivered on all that it promise a beautiful open world with tons of things to do where you didnt need to worry about gear all you had to do is go out and enjoy. A world where you didnt have to wait to get to max level to enjoy it what you do at level 1 is exactly what you do at level 80 the whole game is the end game play whatever you desire. We had all that exactly as promised but players like you didnt care for any of that. They dont care about keg brawl because while it may be a ton of fun it doesnt give you a ton of gold per hour that you get farming events in Orr. They dont care about exploring an enjoy other lower level zones they hadnt done leveling up, or try to experience all the events they missed in zones they already did or trying to discover any hidden secrets there in. They just wanted more gold and more reward.

The content is there and was there since day 1. You just ignored it because there was bigger profit to be done else where. Dont blame the game for not having it just cause you decided it wasnt worth your time. Dont blame the game for being repetitive if you choose to repeat the same handful of events over and over again.

30 days of playing whatever you choose to play isnt a grind its at worst a long wait. And no WoW wouldnt blush, it would call you a newb. You wish it only takes 30 days to get a single BiS item in WoW 10 years of playing the game will not get you BiS because BiS in a vertical treadmill doesnt exist, all you get is BiS today which tomorrow might mean nothing.

All that is well and good, but it doesn’t really matter how many zones or events they have if it’s just the same boring junk. Centaurs invading here, escort this guy, clear this mine, whoop de doo. In the grand scheme of things, there really isn’t much variance in gameplay and that’s why multiple zones filled with the same stuff is still boring.

Draco.2806:

Galen Grey.4709:

What happened is players were greedy…

What happened is that the game ended up having a pitiful amount of content for an MMO, most of it repetitive and not fun, with most rewarding kind being locked to absurd by-the-numbers grind in one-two high-level zones (one of which is terrible).

People never asked to be subjected to this barren wasteland like a stuck record. They asked for it to be improved, because there was room for improvement. But ANet seemingly didn’t listen. Since the end-game wasn’t enjoyable enough, many people who leveled out to 80 simply up and left.

Why you’re blaming players for ANet’s own failings to deliver on its own promise of level-agnostic content, horizontal progression, and hordes of content is beyond me.

Galen Grey.4709:

5 laurels, 20 laurels, 35 laurels or even 50 laurels is still something you earn by just playing the game.

This kind of logic as well.

30 days worth of quests for one of five trinkets? Even WoW would blush at this kind of nonsensical grind.

Honestly I think a huge part of it is how god awful the loot system in GW2 is. For some reason this mmo doesn’t have set loot tables, so people go to Orr and farm because they get everything all in the same place and virtually nothing from different areas. The champion runs finally gave a chance to get a specific skin from the boxes but the chance is so small even that is hardly worth wasting time on.

I feel people like games even if they have a gear grind like wow, swtor, rift, and soon to be wildstar because the loot systems make sense. This boss drops this stuff..go fight him for it. These other bosses drop this other stuff go fight him for it. In GW2 it’s kinda like fighting bosses and baddies and getting a pile of junk, like here ya go.

Devata.6589:

Also this. “loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play” THAT IS FUN! It’s exactly one of those things I miss in GW2. You know what is not fun.. Doing a dungeon over and over again to get money (or other currency) so you can then buy that item.. thats boring.

I definitely agree with this. This is exactly what drove me away from the Diablo franchise. Instead of getting that sense of accomplishment by finally getting what you needed to drop, or sense of fulfillment rather, you are forced to just grind gold as the best way to just go buy the item off the TP. In Diablo it’s the same nonsense, very rarely does anything drop even remotely close to being useful so you are funneled into just grinding to buy off the auction house, which is 0 fun. It just rubs you the wrong way when you feel like even if you dedicate your time and energy into going for something you just can’t get it without grinding.

As an example in wow I spent nearly 2 full years running Heroic Sethekk Halls for that kitten ravenlord mount. Off and on, but at least twice a week. And it was a tough road of bad RNG and whenever the mount did drop other people in the group would win the rolls but I finally ended up getting the mount and it was probably one of the best feelings I’ve had in any mmo, like finally I accomplished this task. If I had the option to buy it off the AH I probably would have, but there would be zero fulfillment in that.

Mirta.5029:

We’re already in one big storyline, but nobody seems to have noticed.

If I had to guess it’s because the story telling is pretty bad, at best sub-par. That definitely wasn’t clear to me, at least.

As far as expansions go, sales are sales. If you are still selling 10+ million copies for an expansion to a 9 year old game, I’d say it’s pretty kitten good. Maybe not as good as when it peaked, but still pretty good. Can you realistically expect to have even an 80% retention rate at that stage of the franchise?

Back to GW2 however, I would actually be surprised with 4 new zones. In a whole year we have only seen the addition of one new zone which, besides being pretty pointless to go to (I guess it’s cool for the occasional farming run), wasn’t all that much. The reason I’d be surprised with 4 and not more disappointed like you said would be basically because the way they have the game set up with the events and all tells me they probably are pretty tense about expanding the world too much because of the need to have people around doing these events. (I feel like that sentence was a run-on..too tired…apologies no grammar checking tonight.)

Mirta.5029:

Xcom.1926:

The players that quit GW2 will come back for an expansion. New players that never played GW2 will come back for an expansion. Right now if a player wants to play a new MMO he will pick between literally a dozen MMOs most of which are free to play. However, if GW2 had a new expansion with a reset new players are likely to come back since it is a new shiny thing.

I was looking for GW2 on Amazon yesterday and it was doing really bad in sales. There isn’t enough to attract new players. I hope we see an expansion by Spring 2014 or we are in for a hurting.

To be honest I never felt like purchasing an MMO that has expansions. It kind of feels like you’re buying a full game, but you’re missing 3/4rths of the content, so you have to buy the full game 4 times over.
How do you check how much of a certain product was sold on amazon recently exactly? Because judging from th in game population and more and more game shops agreeing to sell gem cards, the game still being on the shelves I do not see it as doing badly in sustaining itself.

Skan.5301:

Expansions bring more areas, races, skills, content that isn’t temporary along with it.

It was already said that living story does not equal temporary and no real content. The new dungeon path is permanent, the new tequatl is permanent, upcoming fractals will be permanent, upcoming extra skills will be permanent, upcoming extra weapons will be permanent and we were told that if they would decide to go with the no expansion model eventually living story will lead to opening new areas.

Meh…maybe. For the most part when expansions hit the original prices usually drop a decent amount. Maybe it scares you off but it seems a ton of people still buy expansions as many other games have shown. Expansions normally indicate pretty big changes and a whole lot of ‘new’ so people get intrigued and go get it.

All the content you just named is cool I guess but is just fluff really. An expansion would probably come with 4-5 now zones, a handful of new dungeons with multiple paths, new weapons for classes, new races with, new storylines. I’m just saying things off the top of my head from what I know of other games expansions. They can say whatever they want about living world but so far it’s been very underwhelming, imo.

The only thing they really have going for them is that this game doesn’t require a sub. So that in itself relieves them of feeling like they aren’t providing enough so I’ll give them that. People can walk away, but really can’t ever quit. Maybe they’ll figure something out…it’s just wishful thinking that they’d do an expansion because my gut tells me they never will, and at the end of the day that’s ok because there are plenty of other games to play when this gets boring, I’m fine with that.

yea I’d rather have an expansion instead of this shallow content. An expansion being new races, new zones, new dungeons, new armor, new jumping puzzles, I mean theres so many ways they can go with it, but whatever I guess it’s cool to have a new baddie attack out of left field every other week and then just disappear.

Vayne.8563:

dcypher.2590:

Vayne.8563:

dcypher.2590:

Vayne.8563:

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

Unless you want to call the devs liars, you can. The devs have said straight out concurrency is on the rise. I believe them from my own observations.

Some people are coming back, some people are new from the free weekend, and of course, some people have left. No different than any other MMO.

They said it was a rise after the post launch slump. So the player base could have gone down 60% post launch and from there on in it stabilized. We won’t know exactly what the number is.

No. they said it recently and the dev I spoke to said it’s been a consistent rise, particularly on patch days. People are playing.

I’m not talking about an old quote. I’m talking about a conversation I had with a dev (wearing his Anet tag) just a few days ago. The same dev said the dragons in Arah story mode look dorky. lol

You should know better, really. None of that is enough evidence that the player base and concurrent player numbers are any bigger. Until we have factual numbers, your statement is just speculation, just like lower numbers being speculation. A chat with someone who from a PR standpoint could very well be biased does not mean anything really.

Except that everything else he was saying wasn’t PR bullkitten, and that makes a difference. This guy wasn’t spinning stuff. He’s not in PR. This guy was talking down more stuff than up and when I mentioned the living story coming too often, he told me about the response they were getting to it.

So you can believe what you want, but I was the one who spoke to him and if he was doing some PR job on me he did a lousy job of it. I didn’t come away from talking to that guy thinking this was an amazing game or company.

Well, I could tell you that I spoke with Obama yesterday and he told me that aliens colonized mars. Trying to use that as proof to support an argument would be rather dumb, though.

I don’t care if you believe me. The conversation happened. It’s not relevant to me whether you believe me or not. The fact that my own observations back up what he said is another matter.

Anyone with eyes can see people logging in and playing on patch day. Multiple overflows all over the place. Even if people only play for a week, and stop again for a week, there’s still high concurrency for that week.

Or did you think overflows spawned all by themselves for no reason?

Hmm..the only map I’ve experienced overflows in was Sparkfly fen… never anywhere else. Since the map limit is only around 200..thats really not all that many people. I don’t care what you care about really… I’m telling you that doesn’t support your argument in a public forum. Whatever you believe that’s fine, but trying to use it against other people who were not present during your chit-chat as some sort of proof is silly.

Vayne.8563:

dcypher.2590:

Vayne.8563:

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

Unless you want to call the devs liars, you can. The devs have said straight out concurrency is on the rise. I believe them from my own observations.

Some people are coming back, some people are new from the free weekend, and of course, some people have left. No different than any other MMO.

They said it was a rise after the post launch slump. So the player base could have gone down 60% post launch and from there on in it stabilized. We won’t know exactly what the number is.

No. they said it recently and the dev I spoke to said it’s been a consistent rise, particularly on patch days. People are playing.

I’m not talking about an old quote. I’m talking about a conversation I had with a dev (wearing his Anet tag) just a few days ago. The same dev said the dragons in Arah story mode look dorky. lol

You should know better, really. None of that is enough evidence that the player base and concurrent player numbers are any bigger. Until we have factual numbers, your statement is just speculation, just like lower numbers being speculation. A chat with someone who from a PR standpoint could very well be biased does not mean anything really.

Except that everything else he was saying wasn’t PR bullkitten, and that makes a difference. This guy wasn’t spinning stuff. He’s not in PR. This guy was talking down more stuff than up and when I mentioned the living story coming too often, he told me about the response they were getting to it.

So you can believe what you want, but I was the one who spoke to him and if he was doing some PR job on me he did a lousy job of it. I didn’t come away from talking to that guy thinking this was an amazing game or company.

Well, I could tell you that I spoke with Obama yesterday and he told me that aliens colonized mars. Trying to use that as proof to support an argument would be rather dumb, though.

Galen Grey.4709:

dcypher.2590:

Galen Grey.4709:

dcypher.2590:

Vayne.8563:

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

Unless you want to call the devs liars, you can. The devs have said straight out concurrency is on the rise. I believe them from my own observations.

Some people are coming back, some people are new from the free weekend, and of course, some people have left. No different than any other MMO.

They said it was a rise after the post launch slump. So the player base could have gone down 60% post launch and from there on in it stabilized. We won’t know exactly what the number is.

No. they said it recently and the dev I spoke to said it’s been a consistent rise, particularly on patch days. People are playing.

I’m not talking about an old quote. I’m talking about a conversation I had with a dev (wearing his Anet tag) just a few days ago. The same dev said the dragons in Arah story mode look dorky. lol

You should know better, really. None of that is enough evidence that the player base and concurrent player numbers are any bigger. Until we have factual numbers, your statement is just speculation, just like lower numbers being speculation. A chat with someone who from a PR standpoint could very well be biased does not mean anything really.

At the end you’re right its all impressions and impressions can be deceiving like for example I think if you ask people which part of gw2 has lost the most amount of players? I think you’ll get an unanimous reply there which would be sPvP I image. Correct me if i am wrong. So imagine my surprise at this post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/My-concerns/first

specifically the following statements by colin:

“People tend to play in different places in Gw2, hot join, solo and team queue and custom arenas combined account for a much larger population than GvG/Team/Random/HA arena ever had most of the time. This doesn’t include WvW, which population wise blows the roof off on top of this.”

As for the number of players playing:

" the population of WvW who plays any given week regularly is larger than the entire population of all of Gw1 the game any given week for a large chunk of the games lifespan. Just want to put things in perspective, Gw1 was amazing, but there is a reason we made Gw2."

I really wonder how many of the players who consider Gw2 as “death” really feel that Gw1 was always death considering that it seems WvW alone has a bigger player base the entire of Gw1 !

Either way, I don’t know what that means since I never played Gw1. For all I know they had 100 people playing that game so of course WvW would be bigger. My point of posting wasn’t to say either claim was more valid than the other, just pointing out it is ridiculous to argue about something there is no proof for. On one hand people really can’t leave this game..since they own it, on the other they certainly can stop playing. The only thing that could tell us which happens more often are numbers.

But there is proof, developer statements !

if they’d have an issue with player numbers they wouldnt say they’re satisified, the game is triving and player counts or on the rise, at worst they’d just not say anything.

Besides I am not sure why this is even an issue, just play the game now with culling gone I dont know why this is still being argued at all just going around a bit will make you realise there is no player count issue in the game, there’s seas of players all around. I played a ton of different MMOs and short of EvE online I have yet to see this amount of players together in different areas of the game!

Sorry, but that isn’t proof. According to your logic they outright lied about the manifesto then..which in turns makes any statements from them too unreliable to hold as proof in any case.

Galen Grey.4709:

dcypher.2590:

Vayne.8563:

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

Unless you want to call the devs liars, you can. The devs have said straight out concurrency is on the rise. I believe them from my own observations.

Some people are coming back, some people are new from the free weekend, and of course, some people have left. No different than any other MMO.

They said it was a rise after the post launch slump. So the player base could have gone down 60% post launch and from there on in it stabilized. We won’t know exactly what the number is.

No. they said it recently and the dev I spoke to said it’s been a consistent rise, particularly on patch days. People are playing.

I’m not talking about an old quote. I’m talking about a conversation I had with a dev (wearing his Anet tag) just a few days ago. The same dev said the dragons in Arah story mode look dorky. lol

You should know better, really. None of that is enough evidence that the player base and concurrent player numbers are any bigger. Until we have factual numbers, your statement is just speculation, just like lower numbers being speculation. A chat with someone who from a PR standpoint could very well be biased does not mean anything really.

At the end you’re right its all impressions and impressions can be deceiving like for example I think if you ask people which part of gw2 has lost the most amount of players? I think you’ll get an unanimous reply there which would be sPvP I image. Correct me if i am wrong. So imagine my surprise at this post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/My-concerns/first

specifically the following statements by colin:

“People tend to play in different places in Gw2, hot join, solo and team queue and custom arenas combined account for a much larger population than GvG/Team/Random/HA arena ever had most of the time. This doesn’t include WvW, which population wise blows the roof off on top of this.”

As for the number of players playing:

" the population of WvW who plays any given week regularly is larger than the entire population of all of Gw1 the game any given week for a large chunk of the games lifespan. Just want to put things in perspective, Gw1 was amazing, but there is a reason we made Gw2."

I really wonder how many of the players who consider Gw2 as “death” really feel that Gw1 was always death considering that it seems WvW alone has a bigger player base the entire of Gw1 !

Either way, I don’t know what that means since I never played Gw1. For all I know they had 100 people playing that game so of course WvW would be bigger. My point of posting wasn’t to say either claim was more valid than the other, just pointing out it is ridiculous to argue about something there is no proof for. On one hand people really can’t leave this game..since they own it, on the other they certainly can stop playing. The only thing that could tell us which happens more often are numbers.

Galen Grey.4709:

snip

Granted it’s probably been a while since you played WoW or whatever, but the way they implemented phasing means exactly the opposite of what you are saying it does. The whole environment progresses to where you are. Operation Shieldwall is a good example of this. Once you stormed the beaches and cleared out the hostiles, you were able to set up shop. So yea, the area does evolve with progression unlike what youa re saying.

I’ve leveled four characters in GW2 and my experiences in the zones are not any different than the first time. Same events, same everything really… Same champions spawning every 2 minutes after you kill them, same centaurs attacking the same forts. It’s not bad, it’s certainly a different take, but at the end of the day it’s the same stuff.

Vayne.8563:

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

Unless you want to call the devs liars, you can. The devs have said straight out concurrency is on the rise. I believe them from my own observations.

Some people are coming back, some people are new from the free weekend, and of course, some people have left. No different than any other MMO.

They said it was a rise after the post launch slump. So the player base could have gone down 60% post launch and from there on in it stabilized. We won’t know exactly what the number is.

No. they said it recently and the dev I spoke to said it’s been a consistent rise, particularly on patch days. People are playing.

I’m not talking about an old quote. I’m talking about a conversation I had with a dev (wearing his Anet tag) just a few days ago. The same dev said the dragons in Arah story mode look dorky. lol

You should know better, really. None of that is enough evidence that the player base and concurrent player numbers are any bigger. Until we have factual numbers, your statement is just speculation, just like lower numbers being speculation. A chat with someone who from a PR standpoint could very well be biased does not mean anything really.

kRiza krimos.1637:

You dont have to be teenager, but you sure act like one.

I dont have to prove anything, this isnt courtouse. Also, your zealous praising of raids in world of kidcraft speaks alot. Along with your insults and personal attacks, while not really providing even answer on my simple question, but instead naming 20 raid boss names shows your comprehension skills and ability to discuss reasonably.
I dont have to downplay wow raids, they are pathetic way to keep daddys wallet 15$ lighter every month. Enough said.
I suggest you pull your head out of your screen, see some Sun my dear mature person. Peace.

Yea…sure. Tell yourself whatever you have to. I named plenty of different bosses. World of kidcraft? Yea, you aren’t biased. Now you just come off as a blind fanboy. Does it hurt that there is more than 1 game in the world? QQ more about it. Whether you like it or not, WoW does raiding well. Swtor even does raiding somewhat well. GW2 is now trying their hand at raiding..and they are not doing it well mostly because their infrastructure doesn’t support it.

The only one who hasn’t been able to discuss anything reasonably is you. This entire paragraph shows exactly why you are biased and can’t view anything objectively, but sure… keep thumbing your nose and telling yourself whatever you need to.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Too much Ad hominem and i had my share of angry teenagers.

Ok…now you resort to assuming I’m a teenager. That definitely shows how mature you are. You presented a question… I answered it, multiple times with multiple examples… you then showed your extreme bias by ignoring all of that and posting video footage that were out of context to purposefully try to downplay the raids. Even a third party came in and pointed out your ignorance… now you resort to calling your opposition teenagers in an attempt to attack credibility. Ad hominem? Haha! You just defined it.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Since all your examples were probably wow raids I looked up some and posted videos to show you what ive seen. And i’ve seen booring old trinity numbers game, one guy watching health bars and others trying to put some dmg, nothing glorious or epic. It looks ridicoulous, but never played or cared for WoW so…
But when i look at those raid vids and teq vid, i see alot more things happening at teq, alot more people taking care for alot more things within encounter, that is what i consider complexity. Seeing Lich King doing same 3 things in tight circle is really what i call raid well done, but i guess afterwards you get nice t12 pink carrot.
I did however played raids like Baium, Antharas, Lilith, and while still not as near engaging as tequatl its at least not static screen with numbers flying all around like your wow raids.
Its beyond me why wow fanboys always potentiate wow raids when there are sea of raids done better and more fun in other games…oh yea, is “dense” new popular term in world of wowcraft?

Huh? So because you weren’t able to prove anything, you are just going to lie and say that people just stand there and watch bars the entire fight…cool. There’s only one fanboy in this conversation who can’t be objective and that’s you. Sorry to burst your bubble.

kRiza krimos.1637:

tequatl is alot more complex than main raid of wotkl expansion, alot more coordination, tactics and strategy included..

I’m sorry, but that may be the funniest thing I’ve heard in months. I think all we have cleared up is that you are in no way qualified to compare the two. It’s apparent you have no experience in a real raid and that obviously leaves you biased. Tequatl is probably one of the most basic encounters I’ve ever seen..the artificial difficulty created by a time limit and a gigantic health pool does not make the contest any more complex.

ITS ALSO VERY HILARIOUS that you posted level 90 players going through ICC instead of any footage of when it was actually relevant… LOL Nice try, though… couldn’t prove your point without getting footage of people farming him 2 expansions later right? Thought so.

Also, the Garrosh video you posted isn’t even of the raid..it’s of the Alliance attacking Ogrimmar .. PvP…So…yea…you failed yet again, on both videos…/facepalm

kRiza krimos.1637:

So many words and nothing really said. You havent even answered question i repeated twice.
Yes healers manage their cooldowns and cleanse dot-s, guess what, in gw2 everbody has to cleanse dot-s and manage their cooldowns. They dont have to predict anything, since they already know what rotation boss has and what big attack they can use. Plenty of dmg spikes on teq too.
Tequatl is static, but area in which battle is going on is much bigger than any other raid ive see. Maybe there is some raid with boss that is flying around bigger area than this, which i havent seen. I count into encounter area battery locations, since groups need to be able to reach up there.
So once again, if its not insane dmg numbers which you can’t survive without t12 legendary gear, what makes other games raids hard?

Really? It’s mechanics that make raids hard. You can’t just have DMG with no sense of what you’re doing. Are you that dense? go look up fights…here’s a few: Lich King, Dark Animus, Horridon, Tortos, Iron Quon, Lei Shen, Durumu, Immerseus, Sha of Pride, General Nazgrim, Malkorok, Garrosh Hellscream, Kalakras, Immerseus, …..the list goes on for months so have fun looking up each and every fight that requires strategy to overcome HARD raid mechanics. Also, if you don’t think that they don’t have to predict anything then you haven’t played the games…it’s as simple as that. Predicting damage spikes is very important as a healer and even though the fights have phases it doesn’t mean the moves are not randomized, and certainly the damage people are enduring/going to endure is not something you can predict right? For instance on Lord Marrowgar you knew people were going to be bone spiked, but you didn’t know who so you had to predict and pre-hot, bubble, etc. But yea, you’re right…those other games have such huge raid followings because there is no challenge…haha, please.

Tequatl’s health bar was drastically increased and a timer was put in to make some kind of artificial difficulty. The mechanics? Jump the wave…or dodge the wave…Protect the Turrets….Turrets cleanse area…. not hard at all. The only thing hard about Tequatl is LOGISTICS.

I’m starting to think you don’t know what logistics means so I’ll put it this way, getting the group together and in a vent service and on the same map is the hardest part about the fight..not the actual fight.

And even including where the turrets and and beams are located the area is still relatively small. It’s a static fight….a dragon who doesn’t move.

Derek.9021:

Why won’t they respond to this thread?

They only ever seem to respond to threads that praise them and/or compliment them for their decisions. So I wouldn’t get your hopes up for a response.

kRiza krimos.1637:

dcypher.2590:

lordkrall.7241:

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

The boss isn’t strong…as far as mechanics go Tequatl isn’t even remotely hard. The only thing challenging about Tequatl is logistics…..Raids in other games? Hard. This game? Well I guess it’s kind of hard getting everyone on the same map.

I would like to hear what is hard about raids in other games? I will go ahead and asume its healer keeping tank healthy while dps-ers macro their rotation, right? What is hard about standing in place and pressing heal skill over and over while tank stands there and soak up?
On other hand, Tequatl fight requires each individual to be on top of its game, dodging and hitting, while it also demands high organisation and strategy, and takes fight to a much larger area than any raid ive ever seen in other games i played.
So i think tequatl has better mechanics thn raids in other games, and is more casual friendly gear-wise…and again, what is hard about raids in other games?

Well to begin, you don’t stand still in raid fights in other games. Sure theres the odd tank n spank fight every now and then but there are plenty of mechanics you must adhere to. Standing in a zergball while the only people who matter in the fight are on the turrets is not really that strategic. Like I said, this fight is basically just logistics.

Healers do a lot more than just heal..they provide cushion, they have to manage their cooldowns approprietely, they have to try to predict spikes in damage….they have to cleanse and purge DoTs and Debuffs…all while managing their resources like mana at the same time. So if you think they are just sitting still spamming 1 button, you are far from reality.

I mean I guess I can start spitting off every fight that requires skill and teamwork to get down in other games if you want…SoO just released that has a lot of great bosses in there if you want to look.

Also about the size of the area of the fight…Tequatl zone really isn’t big in comparison. Sure its a world boss, but it’s not like he is flying around or anything he stays still the entire time you fight him minus the intermissions. It’s not really that different..unless for some odd reason you are considering the entirety of sparkfly fen to be the battle? Because that wouldn’t make sense since you are fighting in only a very small portion of that map.

the only good thing that has come out of this is so much wasted time sitting waiting for the boss to spawn or sitting waiting for the que for my server to pop has given me the opportunity to get back into FIFA so, that’s a plus.

TBH blues should not even be an option to drop off a raid boss. The loot tables are whacked out..and designed to force you to grind the content instead of enjoy it.

lordkrall.7241:

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

The boss isn’t strong…as far as mechanics go Tequatl isn’t even remotely hard. The only thing challenging about Tequatl is logistics…..Raids in other games? Hard. This game? Well I guess it’s kind of hard getting everyone on the same map.

personally, I think the last two have been the worst.

Derek.9021:

Can we get a response on this?

They haven’t said squat in this forum for days now; the truth is they either don’t care or have no clue what they’re doing.

Vol.5241:

dcypher.2590:

Vol.5241:

You do know that if Teq dropped several rares/exotics every single time, that reduces the value of rares/exotics?

Do you know why rares/exotics have value currently?

because of ectos? quite frankly, even they have little to no value

Yes, but they have some value.

You increase the drop rate of rares and then the value of ecto goes down.

Those people who clamor and complain over inadequate rewards need to understand that if they make changes in rewards, it will change their value. You can’t expect a situation where ecto right now is 25S and then also expect it to remain at 25S when Anet introduces 4 guaranteed rares upon completing Teq.

I get what you’re saying, but honestly I don’t see why the bosses in this game don’t just have a set loot table. Instead it has a chance for like any green, any blue, any yellow, etc to drop..why not just a set table? I’ve seen a lot of complaints about other games but don’t recall seeing any problem with loot tables.

The game shouldn’t be balanced around what kind of mats you can salvage loot into, that should just be a choice…a hard choice. Here I have this awesome exotic piece that I could use or sell as is on the TP, or I can salvage it. But when the gear is just so horribly bad that the best option is to immediately salvage it for any kind of profit…well that’s just ridiculous imo. I see what you’re saying tho…but to me that still means the drops are pretty bad.