Guild Wars 2

Jana.6831:

ArchonWing.9480:

Just curious, have you actually tried such a thing? If so, I’d probably have a thing or two to learn.

Dark path is not that great of a gap closer. The projectile travels slow AND you have to hit for it to teleport. Also, there is no reason why a ranger or anyone else is going to stand in your wells unless you immobilize them though I suppose you could chill them first.

Winning as a necro pretty much requires LOS and good abuse of fear, otherwise I would say the ranger enjoys an advantage in this. There is certainly more validity in a team fight where you have allies to hold people down though.

Thieves may not have invuls either but they do have more access to evades and vigor. Dodging is the best way to avoid damage in this game.

No, I haven’t, I’m a thief main and main alone. I can test that with my friend though, although I would have to play ranger as he refuses to create one. The rangers I fight, which are plenty in lower silver EU (“God, they have so many rangers!!” “Probably because the servers they usually fight have got as many – fighting fire with fire”), usually just stand still.

Try to dodge through 2 giant wells and land a backstab while you’re at it. Then get feared out of your shadow refuge, get entangled by death shroud 5, have your life sucked out by death shroud 4, get some 1111 and then the lich form.

I refuse to pity you guys, seriously – necros and rangers are the most fearsome enemies in wvw (in theory).

There’s no need to toss any pity towards me, since I switched about 2 years ago away from necro. =p I play enough classes that I don’t necessarily have a vested interest in this discussion, though if I feel that one class was badly affected, it would still affect my enjoyment of the game. It may come as a surprise since I’ve been defending ranger in this thread quite a bit even though in reality I’ve only played them for about a bit more than 200 hours.

Just pointing out that I don’t consider those to be reliable countermeasures and the necro is also getting nerfed. And just because they do well in certain matchups and situations doesn’t mean there’s not some work that could be done.

Though I did point out Lich form as a sort of faceroll thing earlier in this thread for a reason.

Jana.6831:

ArchonWing.9480:

Necros definitely got screwed over.

If you’re a necro getting killed by a ranger, I can understand, but the rage is misdirected. It’s a problem with the necro for the class was basically conceptualized with “This class has 2 life bars [more like 1 2/3] so let’s make them unable to sustain, mitigate, negate or avoid damage” in a game where these things tend to be crucial. Please move the QQ over there, because it really is justified. I mean they just got a massive penalty on their only good heal, and it’s not necessarily even better than other classes’s heals.

Necros have got a gap closer (death shroud 2), they can interrupt with either staff 5, death shroud 3 or spectral grasp – that is to avoid damage and it’s powerful. Necros are powerful in general – just when they’re interrupted they’re screwed and interrupts are the only real weapon against them.
They can partly avoid damage with spectral armor which is the second worst protection skill in game. The worst is thief – they have got none.

So, if I were a necro facing a ranger, I would use death shroud 2, put my wells under them and watch them die. Maybe dance a little.
The healing skills are bad though, I agree.

Just curious, have you actually tried such a thing? If so, I’d probably have a thing or two to learn.

Dark path is a very hard to use gap closer. The projectile travels slow AND you have to hit for it to teleport; so you’re better off targeting a critter or something. Also, there is no reason why a ranger or anyone else is going to stand in your wells unless you immobilize them though I suppose you could chill them if you managed to grab them with spectral grasp. But grasp is also very slow, and if the ranger connects with a PBS I don’t see what you could do.

Winning as a necro pretty much requires LOS and good abuse of fear, otherwise I would say the ranger enjoys an advantage in this. But this has nothing to do with anything being OP. It’s just like how engineers naturally spamming aoe that give thieves a hard time. There is certainly more validity in a team fight where you have allies to hold people down though.

[As a side note, it’s commonly accepted necros are bottom tier in pve]

Thieves may not have invuls either but they do have more access to evades and vigor. Dodging is the best way to avoid damage in this game.

There’s a lot of positive feedback in that other thread though. So not everyone is out for blood.

Sounds like they’re more ahead of the program that I’d think.

2500 range seems a bit small though.

It’s not viable in NA. You can take a look at some of our matchups, and the system has already matched most of them to be in close in rank as possible, but there’s still great disparity that would be worse if we have more variety http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/

I am currently on a t3 server, and it is simply not pleasant on either end if we get matched with a t2 or t4. Even karma trainers will get bored if there’s nothing left to capture.

Player control over the battleground can make up for lack of developer balance.

The original Starcraft and its expansion, for example, was in no way balanced on the game’s default maps. The player base (and eventually professional leagues) took advantage of the map editors to create more competitive maps.

Now certainly, I would never expect people to be able to change entire maps, but the point is if players can control various variables, then they will do well on their own as long as stuff doesn’t get randomly nerf batted. For example, currently in the OS, there’s no way to control unwanted interference or prevent people who don’t want to follow the rules from breaking them. This will change.

The fact that gvg can exist currently is already proof enough of this concept, I would think.

I certainly am appreciative of those testing efforts, but I think the input of those that have observed and participated in these activities on a regular basis will be very vital. Otherwise we may end up with another lolcourtyard.

Thanks for the info mistsim!

Ah, so less than 15s and there’s too much emphasis on gank. I’m guessing too many and it gets too blobby so 15-20 creates a proper balance between frontline and gank.

And somehow this thread got teleported.

It would seem that we need battleground size customization (or perhaps it could be an upgrade), an ability to set matchup sizes (honestly, it’s a guild hall, you should be able to decide it) and perhaps even some kind of brawling court? In any case, the size of the place needs to be more clear. Using OS as a measure seems to be a good idea.

So is 20v20 considered “standard sized”. If there’s a consensus in this thread, i’ll just be forwarding this over asap.

Puck.9612:

Yup, consume conditions was strong but it was so easy to interrupt and already had a pretty long cooldown. I just don’t understand how they thought that was a good change.

It seems to me that the philosophy to necro is “this could be used for too much, let’s nerf it” It’s a sledgehammer, “hammer the nail that sticks out” attitude. A power negative philosophy. Necros are the Oliver Twists of Gw2.

Compare to this to the attitude towards engineers and eles where the mindset is “how can we make this aspect of the class better, to open up more options and more make it more fun to play.” It’s a power positive philosophy.

Guess which classes I find to be in better shape, more engaging to play, and to have more to look forward to?

I don’t subscribe to power creep fears. If everyone is equally as broken, I would find it more fun as long as there are ways to abuse it all with some degree of equality of opportunity. If it were possible to win, of course. I don’t mind being forced to being able to exploit whatever profession I play to the fullest; sounds better to me than to have the developers hold my hand and just nerf whatever feels unpleasant that I would have to face.

Necros definitely got screwed over.

If you’re a necro getting killed by a ranger, I can understand, but the rage is misdirected. It’s a problem with the necro for the class was basically conceptualized with “This class has 2 life bars [more like 1 2/3] so let’s make them unable to sustain, mitigate, negate or avoid damage” in a game where these things tend to be crucial. Please move the QQ over there, because it really is justified. I mean they just got a massive penalty on their only good heal, and it’s not necessarily even better than other classes’s heals.

Great news!

Thanks for the detailed reply, Colin

The GvG community is currently a de facto part of the WvW community.

Although I suppose this begs the question— is it pvp gear, or pve geared?

Crapgame.6519:

ArchonWing.9480:

TakeCare.3182:

Puck.9612:

I’m confused. You think I’m a zergling because I main a ranger? What the hell sense does that make?

Sorry, bae. You said it yourself.

Puck.9612:

Any pug commander that tries to say any profession is worthless in a pug zerg has no idea what he is talking about… I personally love running ranger in a zerg.

Nice no scope kill, Methane.

Digging up stuff from another thread to attack someone seems a bit excessive. Besides, his statement isn’t mutually exclusive with not zerging though.

This wall of reflect brought to you by a guardian main. :p

No No No ArchonWing. We both know that the skill and mindless Ranger standing a few miles away, er, I really mean 1,500 range, number 2 button mashing SOB, rooting tooting rapid fire mother beaver brainless player arrows will pass through your mighty Wall of Reflection!!!

No, we can’t have that. You have no survival options to my mighty and over powered Rapid Fire. In fact, I’m pointing my long bow at your Guardian as I type this. Yes, those are my arrows hitting you.

Are you dead yet?

Yea really. How can anyone win when you take 6/6/6/0/0 with signet of stone, Quickening zephyr, Signet of the Hunt, Sick’em, Healing Signet, Shield of Wrath, For Great Justice, Elixir U, and Signet of the Wild? And don’t forget the panda that does 50k damage.

I could have died you know. Fortunately, I just walked away but you know, it takes a lot more skill for me to use wall of reflection. After all, I have to click one button to almost kill you if you don’t react That’s much more skill than you, merely pressing 1 button to kill me if I don’t react.

Anyhow, I think I lost. Anyone want these? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Packet_of_Salt

TakeCare.3182:

Puck.9612:

I’m confused. You think I’m a zergling because I main a ranger? What the hell sense does that make?

Sorry, bae. You said it yourself.

Puck.9612:

Any pug commander that tries to say any profession is worthless in a pug zerg has no idea what he is talking about… I personally love running ranger in a zerg.

Nice no scope kill, Methane.

Digging up stuff from another thread to attack someone seems a bit excessive. Besides, his statement isn’t mutually exclusive with not zerging though.

This more looks like hitting a wall of reflect.

Regards, a Guardian main.

I would say to rest easy if you feel that this would take away from WvW.

This will allow guilds across all servers to fight, right? That means there’s much less need to hop around servers just to fight another guild?

If there were really groups on your server that only fight on OS and never come out to help your server, that wouldn’t change a thing. If they cared about your server to begin with, they will naturally come out. Plus you wouldn’t get any of those guilds that don’t care about your server just to solely gvg and take up your queue space or not.

In any case, this can only be a good thing I feel. If hardcore players have more incentive to play, the game will naturally last longer as they continue to innovate the meta which will spill into wvw fights. And as much kitten many people like to claim that those fight groups don’t help their server, chances are they are often a driving force behind activity behind all aspects of wvw.

Nuzt.7894:

Your missing the point I think. Op is asking which class in your opinion is the worst. Some classes are better suited for commanding than others. The player behind the character might be great but that doesn’t mean that class is the most optimal. For me it’s a toss up but probably teef.

I did list what I thought was the worst though, lol. That’s why the list is backwards.

The reason why I listed the best is because even if all choices are viable, you need to state why things are better and thus a hierarchy.

I do not agree with the OP’s reasonings that are based on players playing it badly.

I don’t think you can dismiss a class solely based on people not knowing how to use it. If someone doesn’t pick a frontline tanky build to command, it’s not the fault of the class itself. Why would a ranger need a LB to command?

I don’t really command myself, thus this is largely based on my observing the commanders. When I was tagged, all instances were either as a guild or an emergency pug tag, Ironically, the later usually happens on an engineer or necro….

IMO, a good player could use any class and all thoughts are anecdotal….
8.) Thief— Have seen about one good thief commander. In the end, too squishy and too much aoe/cleave negates the thief’s strength. Getting focused down is a major problem. Stability is an issue. Best choice would be to run a venom share, tanky build (don’t shoot me!), shadowstep helps tons.

7.) Necro— Have seen very few good commanders on a necro, as the stability change really nuked their best source. No way to stop being focused, bad stability, no mobility. Is mostly saved by wells, wells, marks, and plague form/chilling darkness which will buy you time. Necros are generally good anywhere in wvw, but I think their talents are a bit wasted up front.

6.) Ranger— Have seen very few good ranger commanders. Unreliable stability, but usually enough to last on contact. Mostly RAO and Signet of the wild/signet of the stone (sadly, stone does NOT make you invul, it just negates direct damage). GS/sw/d provides enough mobility, blocks, and escape route lest things get too dicey. Unfortunately, the pet is going to die close up, and thus that takes away Empathetic bond as reliable condi removal. If you have reliable stability in your party, you could easily take Entangle/LR with SOTF though.

5.) Engineer— Have seen very few good engineer commanders. Lack stability, but have good mobility and ability to avoid damage. Slick shoes can screw people up if they try to focus it down. Some kind of bomb heal/slick shoes with prot injection and melandru runes should be pretty kitten ed hard to kill though I am skeptical about the bombs. Capable of some serious healing

4.) Ele- Have seen many ele commanders. Capable of obscene healing/cleansing and sustain via water attunement. Tons of CC; only weakness is being focused down but mist form and of course vapor form makes ele not a sure kill.

3.) Mesmer— Have seen a few good mesmer commanders. Mantra of Concentration is one of the best sources of stability. Distortions are lifesavers and blink is one of the best escapes in the game. Plus, they are slightly harder to focus down due to their access to a number of interrupts and bring lots of utility. No real weaknesses, other than Guardians and Warriors existing.

2.) Guardian— Have seen a ton, obviously. No real need to explain. Stab, cleanses, group support, and ability to mitigate damage via protection and blocks. Either Ring of Warding or Binding Blade is excellent for collecting enemies in an area for your group to blast down. Only weakness is the base health.

1.) Warrior— A lot of warrior commanders as well, for good reason. Similar to guardian, but more excellent at selfish survival thanks to the healing signet as well as high base health. Warriors edge out guardians slightly as they are more mobile although their stab is on some really long cooldowns.

Given that fall damage is the one thing that can kill you instantly, I wonder if that “deadly stairs” bug may not have been totally fixed.

Someone needs to fix the carpet!

So I was informed of the CC change, and was like “oh, that’s pretty awful”.

And then this, lol. Really? So are we removing the necro in favor of the new class or what?

………………………………………………………….

So the best way to remove condis on a necro is going to give you 10 vuln stacks. This is one of the most bizzare penalities just to use a heal.

It doesn’t even apply the vuln to anyone else.

This is one of the most uncalled for things I have ever seen.

Well, that just means my engineer is going to have to do those jump puzzles! :S

I have not witnessed it personally, but I have seen complaints in map chat about it and that there’s nothing in the combat log.

Well, a large concern among many is that there isn’t a point to have a tournament that won’t be competitive, and for a lot of servers that’s just the case. Cross tier fights just don’t work atm for many cases.

There is an interesting suggestion that was brought up here though: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/When-Will-We-See-Another-WvW-SEASON/5129284

Essentially, there would be “push week” just for that which would be a standard matchup. This would carry with it the same incentives and rewards but also keep the matchups more balanced relatively speaking.

Hmm, hang around DR or Southsun Cove. There seems to be quite a few around those parts.

Not gonna complain much, but the virtue range thing is nonsensical.

For a class that is supposedly a giver of support and boons, they’re limiting it quite severely.

pdavis.8031:

ArchonWing.9480:

5% was tolerable because it’s still existent and can make a difference, the gap between players is possible to overcome. 10% is of course still possible, but it’s making it harder. Also, if you take 10% less damage and deal 10% more damage, then that would be more than a 10% differenc? Of course, this is just an example; I know that it’s not scaling like that.

Just for clarification, a 10% increase in stats does not equal a 10% difference in damage dealt, or 10% less damage recieved.

I know you talked about how it doesn’t scale like that, but this is a very important distinction.

As for how it will effect WvW? I don’t think there will be a noticable change. You might notice it most in 1v1 or 5v5 stuff, but in large ZvZ it won’t really be noticed at all.

Someone broke down the math:

Current Exotic Armor Stats:
315/224/224
Exotic Armor Stats + 30% (Projected):
410/291/291

Current Ascended Armor Stats:
329/235/235
Ascended Armor Stats, Exotic+5% (Projected):
431/306/306
Ascended Armor Stats, Exotic+10% (Projected):
451/320/320

The difference from 5% to 10% (what everybody is all worked up over) is about 20 main stat and 14 off stat. Not that big of a deal…

As far as specific builds, and what not, I think the general change of removing stats from trait lines will have more of an impact than a buff to gear.

Thanks for putting out the numbers. I would guess in zergs it doesn’t matter unless they’re highly organized, but the effect on smaller scale (say 10v10) would be a concern to me.

Terrahero.9358:

If it’s not a big deal, than it won’t be missed if it’s gone.

It’s called consistency.

You cannot justify taking out one stat advantage because it’s deemed unfair to new players, but leave another one intact and infact make that one more significant.

I suppose there’s a problem of downplaying it though. An argument that downplays them too much is also an argument for not having it at all.

So the real question is really why it was done. If one wants to reward effort through grinding, that might be a reason even if people disagree. But if WvW wasn’t included in the thought process at all, then that’s a problem. If this is part of a greater program, say, a more interesting wvw reward track, then I could play a long. If it’s wvw being pve’s toilet, I would have to decline.

With the death of speedy kits, are people going to inventions to grab 25% speed? Or am I terrible for thinking about inventions?

In the past, those pies didn’t have a cooldown, so it’s kind of one of those things you’d actually wish it was actually satire, but the sad truth is, it existed in the game, and someone allowed it to exist. Sorta like the skale venom situation here.

10% is not “minuscule” You are free to send me 10% of your gold. I’ve only requested a minuscule amount, right? Many traits offer damage boosts around the area of 5-10%, to compare.

5% was tolerable because it’s still existent and can make a difference, the gap between players is possible to overcome. 10% is of course still possible, but it’s making it harder. Also, if you take 10% less damage and deal 10% more damage, then that would be more than a 10% differenc? Of course, this is just an example; I know that it’s not scaling like that.

I don’t think it’s catastrophic, and heh, I have full ascended myself, but you can’t just dismiss the problem simply because it could be worse. In close fights, these things can throw a wrench into the problem.

Of course, if they add progression to wvw so we can acquire these things more easily, I would not be opposed to that.

But this is kinda irrelevant. The real question is “why?” Why do we need stat creep?

Mattmatt.4962:

nacario.9417:

@Mattmatt.4962 I wonder what makes you think GS has “insane mobility”.

Swoop: 1K1 gap closer, 12sec cd, even warrior’s rush is weaker (and since the end is litteraly a “leap” its faster than a rush)

Sword have a bit less range but greater evade frame (cause yes, swoop even include an evade frame

“GS switch”. Well, it’s not like there’s no disadvantage to the ranger doing this. First off, suddenly he loses his ranged advantage. Second, it is powered by the most utterly telegraphed move in the entire game.

Disavantage of going melee when your opponent finnaly closed gap after you bumped him with your lb forcing him to dodge and/or use all his gap closer ? GS is very strong contrary to what you seems to say. Maul might have a great activation (dont complain about it unless you want to become the ennemy of warrior) but you need dodge to be able to dodge it, remember that you had to use some to close the gap with the ranger. Or you can also use your daze to prevent ennemi to block or blindyou and land it ? :x

About the range, i’m not complaining about the high use, every class can (even tho only the ranger has such a ridiculous AA dps at 1K2+ range). I’m complaining about the bug with the travel time of arrow. Try to AA in a perfectly plane area, you’ll see you can hit further than the tooltip. You totally skiped that part, no worry accidently forgetting argument that you can’t contest is normal in an argument ^^

Don’t warriors have whirlwind attack too to add to rush?

I never said ranger gs is weak. I’m saying it’s not a surefire way of ensuring a kill against people that close up— there are weaknesses to the weapon espeically If they have any form of range themselves. And sure, if you get the bash in, you can ensure a maul— if they haven’t stunned or blinded you in which case your attacks will just hilariously miss. The ranger would have to rely on their amazing stability (lol) or maybe the 1 stunbreak they have; though most glassers won’t even have that.

As for projectiles going further then they “should” as by tooltip, I thought I already addressed that; in fact I already said that I play the class so yea I know the projectiles can go further than stated. Are ranger arrows unique in that sense, in that only ranger projectiles go further than the tooltip? Anyhow: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/List-of-Mesmer-Bugs-Older-Thread/3750901
Feel free to provide more confirmation on this, anyone.

17. Intended. All ranged and melee skills have a 15% buffer range to take account for tracking.

So who’s ignoring what now?

But it hardly matters anyways. It’s not like they can appear from nowhere. That would be the job of something else.

Every class have to some extend “masshing button”, but ranger do not need, it just have to target and press 2, the AA will do the rest

While that is probably true that the ranger is mechanically less demanding; the difference of effort between that and a number of other faceroll stuff from other classes would not be impressive to anyone that’s played their respective class for any extended period of time. It would be akin to a novice in street fighter going on about how hard dragon punches are but they end up getting thrown or low jabbed to death and then complain about the later being “unskilled” (Sorry, I’ve only really played 2, so the newer ones are above my head)

coglin.1867:

I don’t get this entire mentally of allowing the score to dictate if you will play WvW and have fun, or not. In my opinion, the score is irrelevant as to whether or not I want to play with my guild and friends.

Well, a lopsided matchup can be problematic for finding action. I would agree that losing one’s kitten over just losing by some points would be silly but If morale breaks and it puts too much pressure on the dedicated players who typically provide the leadership and defense, it tends to lead to a more uneasy atmosphere, and even if you’re not affected yourself, the people around you might. A lot of people unfortunately aren’t willing to do the dirty work as it is quite costly,

And there’s also the opposite where if you’re doing a blowout, then there’s nobody to fight and then there’s many more pugs that see dailies are easily done here and it snowballs the situation.

Certainly, a strong community can weather these times, but time takes its toll, and if they feel that the game isn’t going to be improving in these regards, things can get kinda bad. I mean, I often do tell people to stop losing their kitten when stuff gets lost due to lack of coverage and just play but some situations are just so lopsided where any attempt gets zerged down so badly that even I would just consider taking a break.

Caedmon.6798:

ArchonWing.9480:

Sounds like a bug. It’s not supposed to work in wvw, but there are apparently ways to get it if you do it beforehand.

Well it says

Not usable in WvW, but if used prior to entering WvW it will stay active.

Which doesn’t make Any sense at all to me,if we are prohibited from using it in WvW,why does it stay active when we come from pve to wvw ?

Right, it’s definitely a big oversight, and that’s sort of a huge one.

Well, that’s because they freeze up and a complete lack of ability to gauage safe reaction times, not because of a suicidal frenzy. But maybe there should be less bright attacks in this game.

Think of the deer. Wait no, I hate deer.

Mattmatt.4962:

You can walk out of ele’s aoe and you’ll end up with way more health than if you got AA-ed by a ranger. Wasting dodge for AA …. AUTO ATTACK … skill 1 is just plain kittened (same goes for power necro in shroud of lich but that’s out topic)

AA shouldnt kill you in 2sec. AA should pressure to neglect sustain like regeneration or passiv heals

Oh, we’re dragging those necros in this now? But you really have to consider if everyone dies in 2 seconds to it. I mean, if it’s glass vs glass, you don’t need much to get through, plus glass is built around killed or being killed.

And my point of course was that there were a number of methods to survive this kind of thing. And besides, as a thief, there’s no real such thing as waste in an infinitely large battlefield where you can reset the fight. If you IA twice away, your endurance is going to come back really fast anyways. Can the ranger do the same on open ground?

ArchonWing.9480:

ArchonWing.9480:

MethaneGas.8357:

ArchonWing.9480:

If you get killed by a single player when you’re a thief in the open, it is always your fault unless they are hacking.

The only problem is that WvW is not 1v1. You will be roaming / fighting and sure, you can handle certain situations but when a ranger (like in the video) comes along, click on you from miles away, pushes a button and you die… it surely is thrilling that you got so out-skilled.

I find the “miles away” thing to be incredibly disingenuous. They have which is 300 more than the projectiles of most classes. And if you are distracted, a lot of classes can guarantee you die.

No it’s not 300. Ranger can perform 2K range (for instanc elook at the video linked. All spell are touching the thief while beeing supposedly out of range (red line under the skills)
Why ? Cause projectile doesnt have a travel distance survivability, but a travel TIME survivability. When Anet buffed velocity, they didnt nerfed time survivability accordilingly. Making projectile going further than described in the tooltip. Add to this the fact that you can be higher than your target, you reach the 2K range AA 4K damage ….
Dare tell me there is counter play to this. Gap closer ? Get bumped. dodge roll ? Get killed by the GS switch.

Yes, unlike a lot of people I have played a ranger beyond shooting down uplevels and people out to dailies, and yes it is of course longer than the tooltip. Although my experience with multiple classes suggests that ranger projectiles aren’t unique in that sense and I haven’t seen any godly ranger that’s been able to kite away from 1200 ranged weapons so easily. Any videos welcome though.

“GS switch”. Well, it’s not like there’s no disadvantage to the ranger doing this. First off, suddenly he loses his ranged advantage. Second, it is powered by the most utterly telegraphed move in the entire game. And yes, I’ve gotten smacked by it, and again, that’s only because I was an idiot. Of course, a good ranger might use it to run away and block your attacks instead of trying to 1.) use that crappy AA, 2.) gamble with bashmaul ,but don’t worry, everyone loves big numbers!

Mattmatt.4962:

ArchonWing.9480:

If 3 people are distracted on one guy, I can hit something like lich form and faceroll them all. Nobody outskilled anyone; it’s just how the game works.

So that your basic AA hit as hard than an ult AA is balanced according to you ? …. no comment

Well, that’s a fair note, but before you gloat lich can allow you to overpower multiple people which is not something I can find on a ranger. Lich is also really strong compared to most elites—so I still think it’s fair.

And you’re sort of missing my point. Point is I can mash buttons, and kill people, and it’s really just as mindless.

ArchonWing.9480:

ArchonWing.9480:

And again, it’s just silly to use someone on a wall as an example of any form of balance. You usually aren’t winning a fight vs someone on top of a wall unless you pull them down. It means very little when you take in account game design.

“on a wall” is just an exemple, its very common to be fighting while roaming, then suddenly a wild ranger appears (cause of insane mobility on GS or Sword) and destroy you from 2K range.

And well, since we have a lot of situations, it’s only fair to examine it in different contexts. And if you fail to see someone on a wall that must go to the edge to attack, then you would most likely be toasted by a number of classes anyways.

Besides, I’ve been killed more by thieves +1’ing a fight against me far more than a ranger. The special situation is when they kite me into something else.

MethaneGas.8357:

ArchonWing.9480:

I don’t know. Try standing in a meteor storm and lava font as full glass and see what happens. It’s technically 1200 range but the radius increases the reach.

You can walk out of a meteor shower or lava font (not to mention meteor shower has an insane cast time). Landing combos with a staff ele is 10 times harder than clicking on a target and pressing a button. Eles also don’t have a 2000 range 6-second reveal which essentially shuts down one of thieves’ only modes of escape/survival (stealth).

Oh, you mean those aren’t instant killers if you avoid them? Because anything can kill if you make no effort to evade them.

The thief took 3 seconds to die. There were zero dodges. Even if he was caught off-balance, which happens to everyone, it’s simply their fault. You can get your heal off in that time, much less dodge or use shadowstep.

I mean, maybe the thief had a bad day, but they would have to blame themselves. At least I would if I’m wandering next to a wall.

MethaneGas.8357:

ArchonWing.9480:

If you get killed by a single player when you’re a thief in the open, it is always your fault unless they are hacking.

The only problem is that WvW is not 1v1. You will be roaming / fighting and sure, you can handle certain situations but when a ranger (like in the video) comes along, click on you from miles away, pushes a button and you die… it surely is thrilling that you got so out-skilled.

I find the “miles away” thing to be incredibly disingenuous. They have which is 300 more than the projectiles of most classes. And if you are distracted, a lot of classes can guarantee you die.

If 3 people are distracted on one guy, I can hit something like lich form and faceroll them all. Nobody outskilled anyone; it’s just how the game works.

And again, it’s just silly to use someone on a wall as an example of any form of balance. You usually aren’t winning a fight vs someone on top of a wall unless you pull them down. It means very little when you take in account game design.

Yes, I do understand rangers make a lot of +1 scenarios a lot worse, but honestly, that’s sort of the point of the entire class. Though I am glad to note that wvw isn’t just 1v1, so you can’t just nerf rangers based on these cases, especially when large scale combat is a factor.

MethaneGas.8357:

ArchonWing.9480:

The problem with the OP comments is that it lacks context. I can possibly accept “rangers are OP when attacking from a wall that protects them” The problem is where does this really fit in the grand scheme of things? Are hardcore wvw guilds posting rangers everywhere to blow away would be attackers in towers and keeps? Why is there no GWENR?

WvW is a lot more than just zerg fights… and I’ve been all over Bronze and Silver tier. WvW is infested with Rangers. The last time Necros were OP (beginning of Dhuumfire) you saw condi Necros everywhere. Last time Warrior’s were OP, all you ever saw was warriors. Now all you ever see is rangers. It’s a common pattern.

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People go for easy kills. But honestly, I’ve only seen mass rangers since the initial month when they buffed rapid fire,

In pretty much all cases except for necro, I find condition rangers a far bigger threat because they seem unkillable. Bow rangers are generally pretty much one trick, most of them. On a thief, I’d rather complain about engineers or medi guardians because if you want lopsided….

I don’t know. Try standing in a meteor storm and lava font as full glass and see what happens. It’s technically 1200 range but the radius increases the reach.

I know of a button that would have prevented the ordeal from happening, though. Well, it’s actually 2 and a click.

If you get killed by a single player when you’re a thief in the open, it is always your fault unless they are hacking.

The problem with the OP comments is that it lacks context. I can possibly accept “rangers are OP when attacking from a wall that protects them” The problem is where does this really fit in the grand scheme of things? Are hardcore wvw guilds posting rangers everywhere to blow away would be attackers in towers and keeps? Why is there no GWENR?

I always felt the ability to report cheaters was a bit cumbersome. I don’t even think there’s a cheating option in the report window.

Aggressively attacking does are fine.

Suicidal does that charge into a fight with explosions going everywhere just because it was grazed, well, it’s just kinda silly. If anything, they should run!

Previously there was a lot more variation in the matchup selector, and there were also seasons which would lead to a number of varied matchups as well.

But given that matchups with servers even one tier apart resulting in ridiculous blowouts, there is much reason to keep the matchups the same; since blowouts still even exist even amongst servers that are closely ranked.

We unfortunately just don’t have the population for variety, at least when it comes to NA.

Well, it would definitely seem that arrow carts are way too flexible in their use. Their damage has been increased by so much, and zooming out further seems to give you the advantage, and it does seem bizarre that they can magically shoot through anything.

Perhaps they could be changed to be made consistent with other siege (hold down) or be fixed to a certain view, since demanding LOS wouldn’t be too effective defensively. Would putting in a damage penalty against other siege be too much? (Say, -75%)

Sounds like a bug. It’s not supposed to work in wvw, but there are apparently ways to get it if you do it beforehand.

Issue: Rangers can kill other players
Priority: Critical
Solution: There is currently no solution because damage can prove fatal to your character, especially if the enemy is located on a wall.

Workaround: Walls are meant to obstruct your progress and the enemy can use higher ground against you. It would be a bad idea to go attack a wall by yourself as you cannot damage a wall without siege weapons. I would suggest not approaching the wall.

Workaround 2: There is also pve. Player damage cannot kill you there.

Hope that helps! I will apologize that currently that rangers are indeed exploiting the game by being able to kill players. Now if you excuse me, I’m just going to stand on a wall for a bit.

I’d also like to apologize to necros, because they really don’t have much to fight a pew pew ranger actually.

Although I think there’s more to doing well, anything, than just winning and rewards, it seems that many would think the rewards are truly too low. PvP at least has reward tracks, wvw has 2 greens, the occasional yellow, and a rare exotic, as well as a mostly useless purple waiting.

I just got a magi ascended armor piece from my level up chest. Utterly useless, and it can’t be salvaged— just sold for 3s! At least a weapon could sell for 1g. Actually I want my green back; if it were cloth, it’d be more valuable!

To me at least, I think it’s pretty nice to play with the same group of people in a community effort, regardless of success or failure. It’s certainly not going to be a farm, eotm is way better for that. It’s a large scale outing, meaning that a few people won’t affect much, but I just come and do my part. It can also be somewhat unpredictible with whatever enemy zerg possibly hiding in the corner which tends to be fun too.

The difficulty of killing golems is a red herring. It doesn’t matter how easy an exploit is to do, and it doesn’t matter, because I do clearly remember our golems being destroyed.

“It’s not a big deal” is not an argument either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

Yes, it wouldn’t be more desirable if said fix would take more time away from more valuable issues, but there is no indication that doing all of this is mutually exclusive or even the same people are working on this so called “trivial” issue or “important” issue.

Well, it would be very strange to just fix the NPCs since they can’t be attacked by anything that legitimately is in that area, so either they would be working with the assumption that it’s okay to enter your enemy spawn or they don’t know/want to fix it. Neither is particularly desirable.

I mean again, it’s not the biggest thing in the world, but it’s just that this thing has been around for way longer than it really should. I mean, imagine if you could kill the NPCs in Lion’s Arch. (Well, actually, I’d definitely have a go at a few of them)

What…

I can’t imagine this being intentional, though I’ll have to pass this along. I know you can venom share with a gate, but that does nothing. A cannon on the other hand throws things off.

Well, that’d be amusing at least. Maybe hold a user contest of some sorts?

Also, I think mine should get a castle in the flag.

Oh they actually fixed the NPC part? Well, talk about band-aids.

Ranger Emeritus.2905:

They are bored and what they are doing is harmless. The Legendary Defenders would tagged them if they got near to anything.

It’s not harmless though. They can kill the NPCs which is merely annoying, but a bigger problem is that golems can be destroyed.