Guild Wars 2

and yet there are lots of lines of chat with Asian Characters…

I didn’t post earlier, because I needed to think what I personally would like to see as horizontal progression.

The first thing I had to do was decide exactly what I thought HP is. I decided that for me HP means things to do and goals to strive for without having to have more power, higher stats, or more uber armor.

So, with that in mind:

Elite Zones
I would love to see more zones that are most definitely geared toward the level 80 exotic wearing character. Isle of Janthir, Far Shiverpeaks, Maguuma, Ring of Fire, and Deldrimor come to mind. (I’m not bringing up Elona or Cantha here, as I am sure we all agree that we’d like to have them in-game. Let’s just leave it at that.)

These zones could have challenging content that require coordination and effort, although not on the level of Teq. These would be somewhat like the Underworld, Urgoz’s and the Deep were for GW1.

Rewards for completing the meta for those zones should be uber, great looking, and absolutely exclusive to those areas. No TP stuff, and nothing else should ever look like them or be the exact same stats.

In other worlds, elite content geared specifically for grouped level 80 characters with rewards that actually match the difficulty of the zone… Soloing could be done, but definitely difficult and time consuming.

More Guild stuff to do:
Examples: GvG with leaderboards active at release, not a month after GvG comes out. We need to see some guild loyalty and pride.

Add capes and/or tabards so that we can proudly show off our guild when we’re out in the world. Those who “win” a season get special things such as gold trim, tassels, or something.

Showcase Instance of some sort:
I really don’t want to see player housing. Suffice to say that my reasons are my own, and not needed here.

I would rather see players having somewhere to show off their stuff in one’s home instance, similar to a “museum” or something like it where all of your achievements show up as graphic examples. Kind of like to the Hall of Monuments in GW1, where there’s a place to show your minis, armor, weapons, etc. Also like the HoM in GW1, the player could show off his/her stuff to people in her group as the instance owner. Change instance owners, and the tropies change.

Less Gem Shop
Some of the skins in the shop are gorgeous. Others are pretty hideous. Some of the items are pretty good, and some are crap. The problem is that anything good that comes out is almost exclusively Gem Shop Items.

Some of the msot fun I had in GW1 was hunting for unique items from zone bosses. Examples: Ghial’s Staff, Rajazan’s Fervor, Oola’s Staff, and the Yakslapper. You had to actually kill the boss repeatedly to get them, but not so much that you spent hours upon hours of farming time to get them.

In other words, put more of the stuff from the Gem Shop in the game for us to hunt. Give us a reason to go to zone A or B or C. But please, make the odds so that it is actually doable, and not one of those 1 in 802,478,624,367,892 things like Precursors are.

About Precursors
I have heard tell that eventually there will be a scavenger hunt or some such to get precursors. Kudos if you ever implement it. The more ways of aquiring things the better, however I do have a couple of suggestions.

IF you are able to get a precursor through a scavenger hunt, make it account bound. Random drops, or MF items should still be sellable, but if you go through all the trouble of getting (blank) through a quest, it should be yours. No selling allowed. This will keep those who have the time and energy to repeatedly run the content from profiting at the expense of others. It will also give the current avenue of buying and selling a bit of protection from overpopulation.

In fact, I propose that the skins for the ones from the scavenger hunt be different than those found by other means.

The recipe’s for the Legendaries could be changed to an “or” situation, such as the Bifrost needs either The Legend or the new precursor from the hunt. If made with The Legend, it can be bought and sold, but if made with the new precursor, it would be account bound.

Summary
After thinking about it for a day or two, I have decided that these things are more important to me than a lot of what has been posted before. Yes, there are things I would like personally, but they really don’t fall in to “Horizontal Progression” but more into “I want, can I haz?” such as armor tabs, doing away with “town clothes” and making them armor skins, and minipet wars.

The key is that variety, difficulty (without being OP,) Less TP, and a place to show off are important to everyone.

WAIT!!!!

Shouldn’t there be a fishy tail or something?

I’m with WatchTheSnow… I laughed waaaaay more than I probably should…

I loved it, Kraag!

Much kudos!

Aeonblade.8709:

Ashabhi.1365:

Here’s another take….

Let’s say you go to 2 big 3-story department stores.

In one store, you buy a ticket to get in, and then you can go to any floor, and see/do/buy anything you like. You can even buy “bonuses” to help you along, such as shopping bags or carts.

In the other store, you buy a ticket to walk in the front door. Unfortunately, you can only go to the first floor, unless you buy a ridiculously expensive ticket for the 2nd floor, and in turn buy an even more expensive ticket to go to the 3rd floor where the stuff you really want is located. Whether you actually “buy” anything or not, you can’t even see it until you’ve bought your ticket.

In the first example, it is much like GW2. You can walk into the world, and go anywhere, buy anything, and see everything for the walk-in price (the box.)

In the second example, you are being forced to pay more and more just to see the content in the rest of the store, whether you actually buy anything or not. You are also required to buy an upgraded ticket to see the ultimate uber gear on the 3rd floor. This is not unlike many truly P2W games.

It’s not how much you spend for “perceived” gains, it’s how much you’re FORCED to spend just to make it to the top level.

By this definition, GW2 is most definitely not P2W.

So what about for people who think GW2 is more like the second store? It’s not like their opinions are invalid, as you said it’s all about how it is perceived.

EDIT: Bah I got roped back in here somehow. Darn.

I don’t disagree with you. Everyone has their own opinion of whether or not P2W includes thinking you have to have the penultimate anything.

The point that I am trying to make is that GW2 does not require you to buy anything in order to compete in the highest level of competition. Even with some in Ascended and Legendaries, someone like me, in “lowly” exotics that I obtained wholly in-game can still do good in that type of theater.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that purchasing the uber gear doesn’t help, and I am not saying that having all the latest fashions (skins) isn’t fun.

Using the store example, I can still walk around on the top floor for the walk-in ticket. I don’t have to purchase a thing. I’ll take this over real P2W any day!

Considering the cost of pretty much anything else, I don’t mind paying a few silver after dying once or twice. It’s one of the few gold sinks in the game.

Just 3?

Beautiful, Zergs, and Trains

and yes, I still love it!

Here’s another take….

Let’s say you go to 2 big 3-story department stores.

In one store, you buy a ticket to get in, and then you can go to any floor, and see/do/buy anything you like. You can even buy “bonuses” to help you along, such as shopping bags or carts.

In the other store, you buy a ticket to walk in the front door. Unfortunately, you can only go to the first floor, unless you buy a ridiculously expensive ticket for the 2nd floor, and in turn buy an even more expensive ticket to go to the 3rd floor where the stuff you really want is located. Whether you actually “buy” anything or not, you can’t even see it until you’ve bought your ticket.

In the first example, it is much like GW2. You can walk into the world, and go anywhere, buy anything, and see everything for the walk-in price (the box.)

In the second example, you are being forced to pay more and more just to see the content in the rest of the store, whether you actually buy anything or not. You are also required to buy an upgraded ticket to see the ultimate uber gear on the 3rd floor. This is not unlike many truly P2W games.

It’s not how much you spend for “perceived” gains, it’s how much you’re FORCED to spend just to make it to the top level.

By this definition, GW2 is most definitely not P2W.

I think the big issue isn’t whether the game is P2W (I personally believe it is not) but what one considers “winning.”

Accodring to the Oxford Dictionary:

Win – verb (wins, winning; past and past participle won /w?n, wän/)
[with object]
– be successful or victorious in (a contest or conflict)

This implies that one can “win” by being victorious. This is especially true in WvW or sPvP. If you’re #1 at the end of the match (or season,) then you’ve “won.”

This also implies that there is no “winning” in PvE.

There is, however a sense of accomplishment. Whether that is getting every skin, leveling each profession to 80, or map completion, it isn’t “winning” because the game goes on whether you continue or not.

In short, to “win” means that you’re done. You came out ahead of every other player in the game and your time in GW2 is over.

If it’s all the same to y’all, I don’t want to “win.” I want to have a sense of accomplishment, and I want to continue playing the game. So far, GW2 is satisfying my wants, so I will keep playing.

Cheers!

I was kind of disappointed that Tixx didn’t visit the cities this year. He made a b-line for LA and bypassed everyone else… Maybe they were all naughty this year?

Oxford Dictionary:

Pay:
verb (past and past participle paid)
1 [with object] give (someone) money that is due for work done, goods received, or a debt incurred:
[with object and infinitive]

To:
1. used with the base form of a verb to indicate that the verb is in the infinitive, in particular. ( expressing an outcome, result, or consequence)

Win:
verb (wins, winning; past and past participle won /w?n, wän/)
[with object]
1. be successful or victorious in (a contest or conflict):

Just so there’s no doubt. Until there is forced buying in order to access specific content as there is in so many other games (PWI mentioned often in this thread) there is nothing in the game, whether it be purchased or not that falls under the category “Pay To Win” as described in the Oxford Dictionary (Not some “internet slang” dictionary as someone called it.)

I can’t help that some people are upset that buying things make it a bit easier to play. The thing is that no matter what you buy in this game (so far) you will not have any glaringly unfair advantage over someone who does not buy.

If that ever happens, and I discover that I cannot go to (insert coveted place here) until I buy (insert item/armor/weapon/upgrade here) then it will be truly P2W and I will find another game.

For clarification, I do not count Fractals because I am not required to go there in order to play the game. Fractals are a choice, just as WvW and sPvP are. I choose not to go, and I am not barred from going because I do not have (blank.)

Echo!

/requisite 15 char

I reiterate:

P2W is NOT buying pretty skins to make you look different or buying boosts that get to from point A to point B faster than if you don’t buy them .

P2W is being FORCED to buy something with real world money in order to compete or complete content designed for said item.

GW2 is simply not P2W. There is literally NOTHING in the gem store that you cannot play without. There is no content in the game world that requires purchase of a gem-shop item. There is NOTHING in the gem shop that cannot be purchased with in-game funds.

Even if you feel that winning means buying skins or boosters, you still don’t have to spend real world money unless you wish to.

@ the OP:

There are people on both sides of the fence, and no matter what anyone says, there will always be someone spouting the “GW2 is P2W” drivel. If you do a forum search, these threads have been around since day 1.

P2W as I define it is placing something in the cash/gem shop that one cannot compete without. I don’t mean a bit of a boost to something, and I don’t mean something to make you look pretty.

If the devs place an event or dungeon or fractal level in the game that cannot be completed without the shiny new “Sigil if Silliness” that is sold only in the gem shop, then I would agree that it would be P2W, as you would have absolutely no choice but to buy the sigil in order to complete those activities.

As the game sits right now, there is absolutely NOTHING in the gem shop that one has to have in order to progress or compete. Literally everything in the shop is optional, convenient, or skins. Even if someone had everything in the gem shop at their disposal, the differences to me just are not that great.

Let’s look at a couple of the things that Lord Byron mentioned:

1. The enchant argument wasn’t so much about the enchant itself, but the gold ratio. Gems are becoming harder for the players to actually buy with in-game gold. Yes, they are, and I do agree with him on this point. What I don’t agree with is that they are absolutely needed.

2. The advantages gained by the in-store items are not so much as he would have you to believe. Rez orbs and Repair canisters were mentioned. I bought one of each once. Notice I said “once.” Neither of them are required in order to play the game. The mechanics that the ANet team gave them make them anything but P2W.

3. All of those items are readily available in-game except the 20-level scroll, which is not needed in order to play the game. None of them are directly available in the gem shop except the craft booster, which doesn’t give that much of a boost. Not enough to make me say I absolutely HAVE to get one in order to “win” at crafting. The rest are all RNG BL chest things. These two points make that entire concept invalid.

4. In any game, gold is king. Having, making, spending, and bragging about gold has been around since the beginning. The P2W aspect of this is based solely in aquiring enough to buy gems and get those “other” P2W items that can only be purchased with gems. Unfortunately, I just debunked the “other” P2W arguments.

TL;DR:
Those who think GW2 is P2W have a skewed view of what P2W actually means. I don’t begrudge their right to feel the way they do, I just don’t understand it with the current offerings in the gem shop. There is simply NOTHING in the gem shop that is required in order to play the game.

Cheers!

July 4th – ’Splo-do-tron

Chris Whiteside.6102:

/snip

Meanwhile I have a question. This thread is BIG. Would the folks who have already commented on Horizontal want a new thread which is just based on Horizontal or should we just carry on with this thread?

/endsnip

Yes, please….

In fact (although I know it may be too late) I personally think this huge mega thread needs to be divided into a few threads…

1. Horizontal progression (involving the current state, suggestions, and thoughts about what HP should be)

2. Vertical Progression (see item 1)

3. Fractals (mostly because Fractals are their own entity as far as I am concerned. There is nothing else in the game like them, and they don’t affect the rest of the game in their mechanics, even though their rewards do.)

I think that it would definitely clear a few things up for those of us who are looking for focused discussions concerning issues that are pertinent to each of us without having to hunt for them through pages of discussions concerning things we have only minor interest in following.

1. No GvG. WvW is a zerg fest, and sPvP is limited to small groups. I would love to foster some guild pride with being able to say “Look! My guild is better than your guild!”

2. Armor stats that are unchangeable – I do miss this aspect of GW1. A level 20 Obsidian light armor piece had exactly the same stats as a level 20 vendor item. The weapons were where you get your bonuses, and you could change them with adding components and upgrades. Being locked into a certain set of attributes without being able to switch (via tabs or something) locks you into one play style. If armor and weapons are going to have attributes, why ot let us add “buttons of echanting” or “epaulets of strength” and change the base attributes for a fee?

3. Risk vs Reward issues – Why should I do the “hard” content if I can get exactly the same rewards for doing low-level content with my 80?

4. Making PvE content require WvW to complete and vice versa – PvP and PvE should be relatively separate. Exclusive WvWers shouldn’t have to go to PvE to level, and PvE’ers shouldn’t have to go to WvW to complete PvE achievements. (just examples)

5. No alliances – If I have a group of 5, and you have a group of 5, and we’re trying to coordinate a Teq run, why can’t we “join up” in an alliance of 2 or 3 groups to be able to actually help one another? This is just an example, but there could be any number of instances where an alliance of 3 or 4 groups would make sense.

In general, the whole idea of instanced world goes against the principles of an MMO.

Open World and Instanced are almost mutually exclusive. In order to be open world (which GW2 is open World) everyone must have access to the same maps at the same time. In an instanced world (as in GW1) only the player is in the world, and whatever group they are in.

Having instanced maps limit the experience of an MMO. It would also make DEs useless, as they are specifically designed to let random people get together for an event rather then only one group.

Having said that, I could see where there could maybe someday be an instanced version of the existing world for a “vanquish” type play style a la GW1 Hard Mode. I really don’t see it happening for a long time, though. There’s simply too much to do right now.

Redenaz.8631:

Generally, I actually like the male light armor better than the heavy armor; all those suits of chain/scale/plate really struggle to hold my interest, surprisingly. So it is, to some degree, a matter of taste.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Heritage is the best light armour skin in my opinion – but of course it’s only available to those who have played GW1.

I struggle not to put it on more than one of my characters. There are other light sets I like, but, dang, they really nailed it with the Heritage light armor. (I could take or leave the medium/heavy Heritage armor.)

Agreed.

The Heritage Light Armor was a win…all except for the baggy stockings for the female…don’t know what they were thinking there,

but the Male is truly awesome!

In the game world, though, light armor in general all falls into buttskirts or one-sided scarf looking stuff. The only classes that have it worse is the Medium, although what they do have is much preferable to some of the light skins.

I believe you need to be 80 to get the weapons, but if you’re part of the group that kills him, you will get something.

The key is that you can’t solo him. There’s a guild (cross server) called TTS (amongst others) that can help you out.

As I may have mentioned before, I don’t really care whether I get Ascended gear. I still enjoy the game.

Having said that, there are time-gates in the game that kind of defeat the “play how you want” credo.

Hypothetical Situation:

When I and my friends log in, we do the dailies for the laurels in order to buy (whatever.) It may not be Ascended items, but many like those dye packs and some want the mini snuffles.

By the time we’ve spent an hour or so on them, many of us are done. The real world calls and we log out. But, if we don’t do our dailies, we don’t get our laurels, and we don’t get the dye pack, or T6 bag or anything else.

These are not things that we absolutely have to have to enjoy the game, but it is still time-gated, and it still needs to be done if we want our shineys, so how is it helping us to play the game when we’re directed into specific content for the duration of our time online?

As others have said, if we don’t want to do it, then don’t do it, but still, we know it’s there, and with the mentality of some of the players, not doing it isn’t an option.

I am not trying to do away with dailies. I don’t mind them, actually, and I do them when I feel like it. I am more trying to draw the attention to the time-gate of dailies forcing us into specific content therefore predetermining what we do when we log in.

This kind of time-gate isn’t too bad, but in a sense, that’s what is happening on a larger scale with crafting.

Rotation goes:
1. Log in
2. Check the Achievement tab for the list of dailies
3. craft a component
4. do dailies
5. look at the clock (late again)
6. log out

How does that encourage going out and seeing the world, or doing events, or dungeons, fractals, PvP or anything else?

TL;DR:

In your post, you said that time-gating is good for “casual” players, but in my opinion, it does the exact opposite. When you magnify the issue to the level of those who spend a LOT of time in the game, it’s even more obvious that some time gates are truly wrong.

It’s been a long day at work, so please understand that if I come across as less than pleasant, it is not my intention.

When this thread was started, we were discussing vertical vs. horizontal progression.

We, en masse, were trying to discuss what types of vertical progression was acceptable and what kinds were not, and also suggesting ways to incorporate more horizontal progression.

What it has seemed to turn into is a large discussion of Ascended gear. We truly need more discussion of horizontal progression.

I am one of those players who truly does not care if I ever get ascended gear or a legendary. (if it happens someday, cool, but not actively pursuing it.) The key for me is that there be no content that requires ascended gear. I do not want to be locked out of something simply because my gear doesn’t cut it. Yes, I know that some players will be elitists and ask to ping armor, and if you don’t have ascended, you’ll get kicked. That isn’t what I mean.

Horizontal progression to me is having the world at my fingertips, and being able to gain shineys or awards that give me the sense of accomplishment other than having a specific set of gear that says “Hey, I’ve got money!!!” or “I can farm better than you can!!!”

I think that some of what we need is less Gem Shop items and more In Game items. Why should all the cool armor and weapon skins be Gem Shop? I am not opposed to them, but there needs to be a balance of in-game rewards as well. We have a number of sets of back items (just lovely…/endsarcasm) but “special” armor or weapon skins are almost exclusively gem shop items or BL Chest lottery, which again, is Gem Shop related in that you have to get the keys from somewhere since they don’t drop in the world very often. I can honestly say that the only keys I have ever gotten have been from PS rewards or purchased. I can’t remember any other time I have ever had one drop.

I also suggest that there be a chance to get unique skins from Champ encounters. I wouldn’t want them to drop from low-level champs, but anywhere there’s a level 75-80 champ that takes more than a few people and more than just spamming 111111611111 to kill. If that’s still too much, how about Temple events? or maybe completing the zone meta event for a level 80 zone?

Anyways, I digress. The point of this post is that we have pretty much forsaken the discussion of implementing any horizontal progression in favor of discussing the pros and cons of Ascended armor and how to go about getting it.

TL;DR:
Might it be a possibility someday to open a CDI solely on ideas for horizontal progression and leave this one to the discussion of Ascended gear?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Is it fair to say that regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method?

Chris

Yes, to a point…

Higher random drop rates are only the beginning.

I (personally) would like to see a relatively high chance of a drop for specific tasks that don’t involve crafting for hours, spending ungodly sums of money or grinding (insert insane number) of special rocks to get.

For instance, one could aquire through a legendary (no pun intended) quest chain, or reaching a certain global achievement level, or a higher than “normal” chance of getting it through a raid-quality boss (Tequatl doesn’t count.)

If you’re needing a gold sink, there could be a casino or other odds-style gaming, or maybe even an epic running race, where you pay an entry fee of say…10g and race with a group, with the winners getting a piece of ascended, 2nd place a rare or exotic, and 3rd the standard mix of blues and greens.

The key is variety. Those who wish to grind and craft for the guarantee of getting a set can still do so, and the rest could either win it, find it, or take their chances in the (games.)

um… as a side suggestion, (adding more work for you, I know, but…) Have the ascendeds gained through crafting look graphically different than the sets gained through open world content. It allows for the “look at me” factor and still gives those who crafted their own sense of uniqueness.

Just a thought…

The only problem I see with downscaling is that with all our traits and armor bonuses, we are only downscaled in level, not in gear. This doesn’t make the content “more challenging.” This only makes us receive the same rewards as if we were hitting level appropriate mobs. The big difference is that we can steamroll the lower mobs.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ashabhi.1365:

Respectfully, no…

The grind in this game is nothing compared to the older “grind til you level” games of the past. Please don’t try to “catch up.”

Grinding isn’t the answer to anything. Adding more grind to fill yet another hall of monuments would only add to the frustration of those who don’t want to be forced to grind in the first place, while those who do not mind will tell those who do that “this game is not for you…”

But I want something to work towards. I want to collect armors, and display them somewhere. I want to collect various rare weapons, and put those on display as well. I want to see statues for each elite dungeon that I’ve completed, and a display for all my miniatures. These things are not grind, they are a visualization of your progress in the game and some recognition.

You are still able to do these things. You can collect armors, and you can collect rare weapons.

What you can’t do is show them off.

I may have misunderstood your post in that I assumed you meant the HoM in the way that in order to get rewards, you had to grind. Example: Collect (X) minis, and collect (Y) elite armors in order to receive (in-game reward.)

The thing is, we already have a place to “see our progress.” If you open your hero window, and you see your Achievement tab, there it is. It shows you everything you can do and everything you have already done, along with how far you have progressed in (whatever) category.

Having a place to show them off (maybe in your home instance) would be ok with me, as long as I don’t have to grind 10K skritt shineys, 200 Greater Ego Insignias and a Left Nasal Inhaler (which is RNG based in the MF) in order to raise my Artificing level to 600 so I can craft my showcase, and then have to go kill “over 9000” evil quaggans for a rare drop called “Shelf” for each type of item I wanted to display.

However, again, I say, if you are talking about the HoM as a way to earn in-game rewards, I am against it.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Bring back the Hall of Monuments.
It’s already in the game. Use it.

Respectfully, no…

The grind in this game is nothing compared to the older “grind til you level” games of the past. Please don’t try to “catch up.”

Grinding isn’t the answer to anything. Adding more grind to fill yet another hall of monuments would only add to the frustration of those who don’t want to be forced to grind in the first place, while those who do not mind will tell those who do that “this game is not for you…”

There is plenty to do in this game. The problem lies in the risk vs. reward category. Whatever plan Anet comes up with to foster character progression will fail horribly if the reward isn’t up to the risk. There needs to be somewhat guaranteed rewards for the effort.

For comparison:
GW1 – Most of the named mobs had their own unique weapon with a drop rate that was decent. A lot of us farmed Ghial, Rhazan (sp), and the Lady of the Lake. Yes, we sold some of them, and we did make money, but the thing of it is that if a casual player (and I use the term in the manner of describing someone who plays occasionally and doesn’t have much money) decided that he wanted Ghial’s Staff, he or she could farm him for an hour or so and usually come up with one.

GW2 – We fight a named (champ) boss for 10 minutes (train notwithstanding) and we get a green, two blues and 5 “unidentifiable objects.” Where is the incentive for that?

I would love to have unique items a la GW1 to go find. I can see people standing around in LA and seeing a unique sword skin and thinking “Wow… he worked for that one…” instead of “wow, he’s rich…”

John.5732:

/snip

1) Greatsword You get a great quest from an NPC in LA about the legendary greatsword. He tells you a story about who created it and how. He tells you that the last the greatsword was seen was before Orr fell. This starts the Great Quest to seek out info in Orr. After a few temple events, an NPC there would tell you that her history research shows that the GS wkittentered when fighting the rise of Zhaitan and fell into the sea. Using her notes, you are able to locate two places in Orr. You must recover the hilt and the blade. Each of those are instances, like personal story.

Next, you must find someone who can reforge the blade. This leads you back to LA, where you show the initial guy the sword pieces and he tells you of the living descendants of the original blacksmith. The great great granddaughter of the blacksmith carries on the family business and she lives up in the Iron Marches. She is impressed you found the blade that he father had told her about. She always thought it a family tall tale. She agrees to attempt to reforge it. She sends you on a quest to find the hottest flame, which would be a special event in the CoF dungeon. Taking the flame and money to her for supplies, she begins work on the GS. She needs a week to experiment and forge. When the week is up, she tells you that she was unable to reforge the blade because she does not have strong enough metals. She tells you of an experimental metal the Dredge are creating that sounds ideal. This leads you to Dredgehaunt Cliffs and another personal story instance. Taking back the experimental metal, she asks for more money and time to complete the weapon. A week later, you have your legendary GS.

I rather like the idea, but a couple of “tweaks” that could be made are:

1. Keep it out of the dungeons/instance trap. Keep it in the open world. An instanced story would be ok, but not part of the PS. Also, many people will not do dungeons as a matter of preference, just as many will not PvE or PvP. WvW can have relatively the same quest, but placed in the WvW “world.”

2. Try to keep money out of it. It would be better if everything you need is in the world somewhere. Paying for it only “cheapens” the experience.

3. Make it difficult. It should be a “badge of honor” to obtain, so that not every generic player can get it.

4. Definitely make it not tradeable! no TP sales!!!

Faowri.4159:

I don’t think it’s a question of casual vs hardcore, although it does somewhat depend on your definition of the terms. Some people define it as easy (casual) vs difficult (hardcore), but the game can have easy content and it can have hard content – that isn’t the problem, or wouldn’t be, if players could easily achieve a statistical level playing field and content difficulty was matched by skill instead of gear level.

It works if you define casual as ‘limited time to play’ vs hardcore as ‘lots of time to play’. The problem is time investment, and gating character progression behind significant time investment and repetitive activity. Hardcore players are willing and able to do it, but casual players won’t, or very often can’t.

This definition of hardcore and casual can apply to a lot of players, but there are many more such as myself that do not have a lot of time to play, but when we play, we are as capable and as passionate as someone who has tons of time.

With the system as it is right now, I will never have Ascended gear, nor will I have a legendary. I simply don’t want to use my precious time in-game to stand at a crafting station or run endless loops trying to get materials.

Time alone shouldn’t be the determining factor in whether or not I am able to gain the BiS gear.

There are a lot of good options in this thread. I fervently hope that the devs come up with some way that I might have hope to gain Ascended or Legendary gear someday that doesn’t involve endless grind or hours crafting.

In the meantime, i am doing well with my exotics.

I do understand the OP’s concerns, but the tone of the post almost made me ignore it.

After rereading it, I am prone to agree with the OP to a point.

Heavy armor wearers are almost to the point of steamroll easy in the lower levels (I am leveling my first heavy wearer) compared to the experience I had with my casters. While I agree that they should do a bit more damage than casters, the disparity is amazing. I am doing almost as much damage on my level 22 warrior as my level 80 elementalist. (I did not include crits or bonuses. I am just talking about base damage.)

As for the time gating on the ascended armor, I think it should have its own thread (or added to the myriad threads already in existence) or everyone is going to jump on that aspect and ignore the actual topic, which is ANet’s preference for plate/heavy wearers.

Andrey, they gave you the canned response for submitting content for them to add. I think you should go back to them and ask about licensing and using the world for your ideas.

Also, you might try emailing them through the ANet parent site rather than the game. I believe they may take ideas more seriously when you go through their marketing department rather than trying to get the support department on board.

Good luck to you.

Before I go on to explain my feelings on progression, I need to define what I think of when asked about vertical vs. horizontal progression. I will not discuss WvW or sPvP, because I truly do not have enough experience in those areas to know what I am talking about.

Vertical Progression

This to me isn’t going out and getting the BiS gear because it’s better than what I have. It is more the need to go out and get new gear because I can’t do the content without it. In this game, there is simply not much of that, and I hope that there never will be. Getting that extra boost by getting Ascended (or Legendary for that matter) is great for those who want it, but I am thankful that 99% of the content is doable without it.

I have played a lot of games that made you go get the best for your level because you can’t go on without it, and after a bit, it loses the “fun factor” because in order to progress beyond where you are, one is forced into spending a lot of time/energy/money obtaining (insert uber named item here) or it is literally impossible to go on. My time online is limited. I don’t want to spend months getting something for a week’s worth of content.

It’s the roller coaster effect. Wait in line for an hour for a 2 minute ride. Unless the ride is worth it, once will be enough, and I’ll go on to something else.

Horizontal Progression

I look at horizontal progression as gaining titles, skins, cosmetics, awards, and little extras that are unique, along with new areas to explore as I am now. No extra gear needed.

The Issue

In GW1, literally everyone was level capped and running in the best armor possible very quickly. Not only that, they reached top level long before the end of the story line. After that, everything was as I mentioned, cosmetics, titles, exploration and collections (and of course, GvG, RA, TA, and Arenas such as Heroes Ascent.)

I also look at horizontal progression as having new and exciting things to do that are geared toward the highest level players. Personally, I think this is one of the places that the devs (in general) got it wrong.

In the process of leveling, you blow through almost the whole world map before you reach level 80. This gives us no incentive to go back to “lower” zones except for events such as the ToN or world bosses (champ train in Q’dale doesn’t count.) Once you’ve gained level 80 in your cultural areas, the others are redundant.

Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, I think it would have been better if it were designed a bit more like GW1 in that we should have been at cap long before we reached Orr, Frostgorge or any other level 70-80 zone that exists now. There also needed to be cross-region (map related, and not in the NA/EU sense) quests or events that actually made you to go to another cultural area. (i.e. if you’re human, then there should have been “quests” to send you to the Norn homeland, or the Sylvari, etc.)

In both Factions and Nightfall, we were capped before we exited the “beginner” island or shortly thereafter. The rest of the game was all designed for top-level players. There were even story arcs that led you to the other chapters if you had purchased them all.

The Summary – a.k.a. the TL;DR version

GW2 has the potential to be the greatest game of all time, but placing us in the position of having to gain the next tier of armor isn’t the way to go. I don’t want to have to grind a new tier of armor in order to be able to complete content.

Gaining it because we want to is encouraged, but we definitely need more horizontal and less vertical progression, possibly in the form of new areas to explore, new stories, new skins, new titles, and maybe even new Dragons.

(Apologies for turning this into a GW1 vs. GW2 post. I truly wasn’t trying to say one was better than the other, just comparing the differences in GW1’s horizontal progression and GW2’s.)

1. Do away with “town clothes” and make them ALL skins. There are some pretty nice town clothes that I wouldn’t mind having for armor skins.

2. Build slots. I miss having weapons tabs, templates and 5 sets of armor depending on what I need to do. I would pay gems for slots to be able to hit a button and boom! new build, traits, armor, weaps and accessories.

3. Guild tools. I would even pay gems to have a “last online” column.

4. Risk vs. reward adjustments across the board. I can receive just as much for taking 10 seconds to zerg down a champ in Q’dale as I can soloing in Frostgorge for 20 minutes. What’s wrong with that picture?

5. No more tiers of armor/weapons/etc. Stop with what we have. Everything else should be cosmetic only.

6. Make skins you buy from the gem store go into your locker so you can withdraw them. Unles it’s a truly special skin, I am not going to pay that much for something I can only use once unless I buy (insert number) transmute crystals.

7. Take a good hard look at your RNG. Rare should be rare, but having a 1 out of 267,197,651,372 chance is a “bit” over the top (ok, a LOT over the top.)

I was wandering around the Shiverpeaks and I came across this NPC armor.

Please, ANet…for my birthday next year, can I haz? I know it’s NPC armor, but I think it would rock a Necro

Regardless of why they’re taking a break, I am glad that they are taking a break.

Putting out content ever 2 weeks is not only hard for people who are completionists (thankfully not me) but the quality is lacking. I believe that if they take their time with the updates and LS releases a bit more, that maybe the quality would be a bit better, and we would be more relaxed going into it.

I will be happy when Scarlet goes away, but not for the reason you’re thinking. I will be happy when she’s gone because I am tired of people whining at how bad she is. That’s way more irritating than anything Scarlet is actually guilty of.

Azure.8670:

because people are just entitled gamers these days. If you played old MMOs you would be thankful for GW2 and love this kitten like no other, similar to how I do.

Im from the Ultima Online days where you can be killed by anyone near anywhere and lose all of your gear and items in the snap of a finger. The horror stories of that game still make me and some old friends cringe. THAT was real grinding. Took me 4 and a half years to get the best katana, announced it in a dungeon that I got it and was murdered and lost 3 years worth of loot. yep. THAT was punishment, and dont know why I played it for so many years.

Now GW2 isnt really a grind. Ascended gear is for long term investment so you actually have something to do besides getting the easy to get exos. Its whatever and nothing to complain about but people today just love to cry. People that dont want new gear confuse me… why are you playing an MMO? Why are you playing the same content over and over if you want no growth? Play a good JRPG, you can level up and get the best gear and actually have an ending to boot.

Todays gamers? want the story to be delivered exactly how “it needs to be” or its kitten. Gear grinding? thats kitten. Everything is kitten. No one appreciates anything and in games today, and devs have it rough. GW2 is unique in how its build and I could tell from jump it was going to take awhile for it to fully flesh out. How they are going about it is interesting, and the living story is a great concept even if the story absolutely sucks, but the crying… and kittening… its unreal.

I have work in 20 minutes and needed to vent, thank you and good quaggan.

^This… 1000 times This…

Unfortunately the “I want it all right nao!” crowd is the underlying cause of everything that’s wrong with the GW2 community.

So, the answer to the questions “What’s wrong with you” is simple. You have the attitude that you are entitled to everything the game has to offer without actually putting in any effort to get it.

O Krait, Wherefore art thou, Krait?

We are worried about you with the tower and all that…

I don’t know if there’s a specific way, but if it’s truly bad, you can always open a support ticket.

Hi, everbody!

I am one jump away from my Dive Master achievement. Yes, it’s the one at the top of the Not So Secret lair of the Aetherblades.

I understand that it’s not an easy thing to do, and I don’t have a problem with it in that respect. It’s just taking me forever. Finishing the JP to get there is only half the battle. There are so many spars and bars that you have to avoid on the way down that there is only ONE path you can go and not die repeatedly. Sadly, I haven’t made it yet.

The question I have for everyone is this:

IF you have your Dive Master Achievement, how many times did it take you to get this jump done?

On a side note, I think one of the jumps onto a big pipe in the early stages is either bugged or else you have to be on a speed buff and be a Norn to make. Just sayin’…..lol

Aeonblade.8709:

/snip
They are already intrusive enough into other’s gameplay…

/endsnip

I am curious. How do they “intrude” on your gameplay? They are simply graphic pets that don’t affect the game in any way except to make people happy by having one (or more.)

If they gave buffs, take loot, kill your mobs (a la Ranger Pets) or anything else directly affecting the game itself, then I would agree, but right now all they are is eye candy to those who like them.

Off topic and for the record: I don’t mind having to jump through a minipet following someone around in a jumping puzzle, but I can’t see kitten through a ranger pet. Please put them away until you’re actually fighting something? please? pretty please?

Something that the server-wide TP did as well is keep prices in check more or less (yes, I know there are uber expensive items.) The nice thing is that if a log is 5s on TC, it’s also 5s on BG, or SoR, or JQ, or every other server. No more “server hopping” for a better price.

Yes, there are some issues with GW2, but in general, it’s the best game on the market right now and for the immediate future. I’ll probably be here until they turn off the last server and shut the game down.

I just wish they would let us fight them. I laughed my kitten off when I saw the squirrels in Rift fighting. Get one of each (Fire, Ice, Earth, and Lightning) and it was hilarious to see them zapping one another.

If GW2 ever implements mini pet arenas, I’ll the the first one in line.

I was kind of hoping for new skins myself.

No big deal, though, there will be new skins come along.

Every mini I have is one I have either won through an event, gotten in a BL chest, or gained through means other than outright purchasing a mini.

…I take that back… I bought a mini fire imp from the TP once.

I don’t have many, but I really like the ones I have.

I just wish I could afford a Jack-a-lop. If anyone wants to give me one for Wintersday, I would be ever so thankful

Say what you will about the tower, good or bad, but I personally had FUN!

It was good in that one couldn’t solo the content leading up to the Hyrbid, nor could one “run” it without dying horrible deaths often. It was definitely more “difficult” than general PvE. Isn’t that what people were asking for?

Keys were relatively cheap at the vendor, AND you got them through drops, AND you got them every time you killed the Hybrid (or at least I did.) As for buying them with spores, I think I maybe bought one a day? No RNG involved in trading spores for keys.

As for the reset, so what? what “progress” are you speaking of? Having to go through levels 1 and 2 again? Not that big of a deal. Grab a few friends and have at it. I think it took me all of about 20 minutes to gain what was reset. After that, I saw blue doritos on the map almost every day, and in all 3 levels.

RNG? Well, let’s just say that RNG is RNG. We all know how it is in this game, so if you don’t go in expecting a guarantee, then you won’t be disappointed. All I got was a few rares and a lot of greens/blues and bags. Oh…and a mini Hybrid, and a mini toxic krait.

As far as LS events go, it was a pretty decent one. I have no regrets about it.

I will miss the Kessex of old, though. It was beautiful before this thing.

I solo a lot.

For general farming and PvE solo and champ trains I use my elementalist, just because she’s a lot of fun for me to play. Others may have a different opinion.

But, for all around ease of leveling or solo roaming Necro has it down! you can run either a minion build or a condition build and your enemies simply melt in front of you.

Guardian and Ranger are great for sustainability, and Warrior is fun at lower levels. (Don’t know about higher levels because I’m not there yet)

What it all boils down to is that you need to play what makes you happy. Every class can solo content, even the poor little thief. Some are just better at it than others.

Gratz on the Ascended armor.

What are you going to skin them with if the replacement skin ANet is designing sucks?

Seras.5702:

Too busy shoveling snow….

^This!

and scraping ice and finding the fusebox and waiting for someone to plow…

Best wishes to everyone affected by this round of the winter “wonderland!”

My Necro is Priory. I hate to admit it, but I went that way because I liked the armor for casters. Then, once I got into the story a bit, I found that I really liked it.

Cheers!

dusanyu.4057:

Look at the size of that mosquito! I did not know Tiria was in Minnesota.

No… Minnesota mosquitos are a bit small for that to be one… That one must be from Wisconsin.

((Merry Wintersday, Everyone!))