Guild Wars 2

SuperHappyGrunt.2591:

omg i’ve been doing all this with a mesmer too, better nerf mesmer too

Blasphemy

Mesmer is balanced because it was nerfed specifically against thieves for six months.

Cynz.9437:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Yawz.7841:

its just a typo man. what they meant was “Dead in one-on-one combat”

Oh.

Ok.

They should refund my thief then right

if you ask for refund and buy something again for your account, your accnt will get permanently terminated…. happend to some guy that got refund for HoT

Oh.

Sad life.

That’s nothing. I once saw a thief steal up a flight of stairs.

As a warrior this is incredibly offensive to me, thieves should have to use stairs like any other class. Nerf pls.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Dodge a rapid fire or other multi hit effects and enjoy all of the cleanse ever. DD was meant to be played as an evasive team fight brawler, or at least that was what anet was trying to aim for. Don’t run DD if you still wanna be the +1 back capper.

??
You’re talking like the trait is good.

You still only clear one condition per dodge.
A dodge lasts .75 seconds
Cooldown for that trait is 1 second.

you have to waste two dodges to clear two conditions on a rapid fire.

And people still think that’s op.

Yawz.7841:

its just a typo man. what they meant was “Dead in one-on-one combat”

Oh.

Ok.

They should refund my thief then right

Shogun.7401:

They have no clue what they are talking about!!!

Deadly on 1 on 1? Please care to explain? You mean deadly for us?

Originally, Thieves had “deadly in one on one combat” as a feature of their class. This information is still present on the wiki.

However, it is not present on the main site as regards thief character information, which some players took to mean that thief was originally meant to be deadly in 1v1 (as per the date of the wayback machine link), but that somewhere along the line the intent changed to +1.

If this information is still present under character creation for the thief class though, it means that “Deadly in 1v1” was meant to be a feature of the thief class, and that recent balancing efforts are not doing that measure justice.

I conceded defeat a while ago because a player convinced me that along the line thief class intent had changed, but apparently that is not the case.

We’re apparently supposed to be deadly, not just decent, in 1v1. And certainly not just the best at decapping uncontested points.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SlpJoV_kJRc/maxresdefault.jpg

If not, I rescind my concession of defeat on “Thief is not made to 1v1” and re-ask the following.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

RE: Above.

Oh boy I wish I could play some phoenix wright music at the moment.

I figured someone would chime in about “The wiki is player maintained!”, so before this I did some digging with the wayback machine. The original intent of the class, as seen on the official site, is as follows, and I quote:

“A master of stealth and surprise, the thief is deadly in single combat—particularly when catching enemies off guard. Thieves compensate for their relatively low armor and health by being quick and evasive. They can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Enemies should watch their backs, or the thief will watch it for them.”

Heres source.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110919124952/http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

So uh.

Yeah.

Deadly in single combat.

Erasculio is on the money more than you might think.

That does bring to the forefront a rather interesting question though.

Why did that snippet of being good at 1v1 vanish from the official site?

If someone could confirm, it appears (Thieves are good at 1v1) is explicitly stated as the intent of the class.

Original Thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Do-Not-play-lt-Thief-in-sPvP/page/2

You know, people come into the forums all the time saying Arenanet knows best and that people should just let them do their job, while conveniently forgetting that there is a board of developers paid to at the very least ensure that the facets of the classes are enjoyable.

They’re paid to do this.

If a developer can, after weeks of extensive polishing, allow, say, DH to ship without thinking that perhaps a player will just stack all of their traps and taking steps to make sure that a person that does that is not rewarded with a free kill for doing so on a mode where players have to move on specific paths to specific locations, and then leave that strategy live for a couple of weeks, then something is wrong.

They should be notified. Of course, people are going to be offended. People are going to be angry, because they come home from a busy day expecting to have some enjoyment and end up being on the receiving end of untelegraphed bombs. But someone should come to the forums and say “this sucks, and this is why”, and people should allow them to do that. Otherwise it’ll just be left as is.

We have no choice but to let the developers do their job. In fact, we cannot even begin to make them change the game, they have to take up that action on their own.

All we can do is whine about x and y and hope they listen, or quit. If they don’t feel like listening, that’s fine. At least we tried.

KrayTsao.5604:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QehQaQvFn0

I thought this is the official trailer? Not the one you showed.

It shows the daredevil’s ability and features rather well.

Lmfao

I r8 10/10

Skyline Crash.6254:

Do you want some pepper with that salt?

I’d like some sustain but they were all out.

I applaud the OP for once again shedding light on what is causing the thief to suffer, but at this point I don’t really have any belief that:

1.) Thieves will receive a rework
2.) Players that do not play thief won’t cry in the event we get a rework.

Its like: we started off with all of these neat mechanics to devour people whole in 1v1, but gradually just had everything that made some inkling of sense removed. And now classes are getting reveals. invisible ones at that, in the case of dragonhunter, which is just a stupid counter to our only meager source of damage reduction in the game.

It’s whatever, really. There has to be one painfully difficult class for PVP to be ‘structured’. It would be very nice if a developer could sit down with mains, touch base with them and see what the general consensus was on gameplay and then implement the changes they request, while at the same time weeding out the “waaah, stealth so op!” from the players that dont know how to fight something they can’t see-

But I’m not holding my breath.

I knew what this was.

Rogue classes are never balanced. they start off strong and then end up being sandbags halfway into a MMO’s life. This was no different.

DD obv needs nerfs.

A third dodge bar? Didnt we just get past balancing acrobatics so perma-evade thieves wouldn’t be tumbling everywhere?

psssh.

MrKahwk.9524:

It’s not a coincidence that the superior rune of the daredevil has toughness in it =) I for one love the added sustain.

Delusion.

It has 100 toughness.

I mean-

Yeah! I agree!

All the thieves complaining need to pay for the expansion and l2p!

theyll just change it to “gain boons.”

You mean thief doesnt cost you exotics at a steady rate to play?

Nerf needed.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

How we make a class that has so much stealth/mobility be balanced? I feel like it being UP in fights is a good trade off for the map control they offer.

I can’t come up with a way to make thief be amazing without it causing cancerous cells to form.

Map control means thief is balanced

This thread is pure gold

arenta.2953:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

arenta.2953:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

arenta.2953:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Mefiq.7039:

Thief is op, it hits 3k/3k/3k autoattack chain with insane dmg + evade on 3rd skill, kittenton of blocks and sustain, HE CAN EVEN EQUIP STAFF and knock/block/heal!
Thats how op thief is! aaa not, i was talking about Revs!!~!$@!$!

Ye this

they need to be nerfed immediately so they have to actually try to get wins.

When they stealth, I can’t tell if they’re going to attack me or run away, and there are absolutely no options for counterplay.

I refuse to autoattack to fish for them, I am not a barbarian.

all they do is get low, port away, reset fight ad nauseum

Nerf staff too I hate when thieves can give up stealth for 6k crits

easy way to counter them
since u apparently have never played one

use AoEs

Thieves will either go in stealth or dodge inside your AoE. For each evade, it triggers their “on evade” traits. Thieves have done this inside SR while getting AoE’d.

Not a good solution. Apparently, you have not played a Thief.

this ranged from necro staff marks and wells

Again, “on evade” remember?

to warrior GS

Only bad Warriors uses GS and you shouldn’t encourage others to be bad Warriors.

or even normal sword 1.

Again, “on evade” traits. Not a good idea.

if u see the weapon’s auto attack chain going. then u hitting.

Not if they’re dodging.

or use ranger’s pet “sic em”

Not if they’re dodging.

or reveneant’s stealth reveal

Ugh, not if they’re dodging.

or engineers stealth reveal.

Not. If.They.Are.Dodging.

those 3 are all hard counters to thief.

That’s just an illusion. There is no “hard counter” to Thieves. If you Revealed them, they will dodge and evade, then go back in stealth.

but we can’t give all classes stealth counters, as otherwise stealth is useless

Stealth is not useless. If the Thief can force a Ranger to bring a dead skill Sic ’Em, the Thief have already won.

so yes, there are counterplays

There’s no such thing. There is no way to beat a Thief. They have so much utility, evade, block, and invulnerability that there is nothing you can do to beat them.

and traps work well against them

You cannot trap a Thief, they will shadowstep out of it or dodge around in it to trigger “on evade” traits.

and yes. u need to be a barbarian. CAUSE IT WORKS.

No it doesn’t. Barbaric approach never work. You need to be a 5-start General who’s really good at forming strategies and tactical maneuvers.

thief has lowest hp pool in game(with ele)

That’s nothing compare to their effective health — keyword “effective”.

and 2nd lowest armor

Their armor is part of the illusion because when they go in stealth, they receive 25% damage reduction plus the pulsing heal which greatly increase their effective health while in stealth. This is one of the reasons why your “solutions” will never work.

Everyone agree that Thief is OP and I just laid out some of the reasons why.

EDIT: typos

lol they don’t have unlimited dodge

also. dodge doesnt work vs all skills

example, Ranger’s skill “Sic Em” removes all stealth WITHIN 2K
dodge don’t evade it.

and Rev’s “gaze of darkness” pulls all stealthed enemies out of stealth, and blinds them.

again, dodge wont evade it.

also
Guardian’s Light’s jugement trap

this can be dodged yes. but it LASTS 8 SECOUNDS. aka as soon as your dodge ends YOU LOSE STEALTH unless u can jump OUT of the trap’s range before the evade ends.
with a attack radius longer than the trap radius. this means evade wotn work well.

for engineer
analyze.
and detection pulse.

both cant be dodged

there is also the engineer trait LOCK ON.
combine this with a AoE like grenades, or flamethrower. and NO EVADE will be able to outlast this. this will basically cancel stealth perminently unless the theif can get out of range of the engineer.

and guess what. by your logic. evade can counter anything. but u don’t have unlimited evades. they have cooldowns. and a period between evades.

so try again.

You do realize that dodging happens during the Revealed right? It’s not dodging the skill that Reveals the Thief, rather dodging every other skill after getting Revealed.

Even though you have the skill to Revealed them, they will simply dodge around until they can stealth again — and they can stealth more than you can reveal that’s why those reveal skills are useless and not a hard counter.

Do you understand now why Thief needs to be nerfed?

It seems to me that you have not played a Thief.

2 theifs lv 80
1 necro lv 80
3 rangers lv 80
1 rev lv 76
2 engi lv 56 and 80
1 mesmer lv 80
and 1 warrior lv 80

also you jsut bullkittented.
“they can stealth more than you can reveal that’s why those reveal skills are useless and not a hard counter.”

engineer skill lock on. no cooldown AT ALL. just hit the theif.
theif can evade yes. but guess what. it can’t evade 24/7. specially against spammed grenades or flamethrower. which will immediatly hit after the evade ends, blast the stealth to oblivion. and reveal the theif.

the theif will not be able to restealth as the lock on will continue(coupled with the AoE engi skill) to remove stealth

theres also the ranger skill sic em. couple this with the longbow’s 2 skill and after the theif restealths after sic em ends. the longbow will continue to hit the theif. even when stealthed.

also. sic em lasts 10 secounds, applying a 6 SECOUND reveal. if the theif stays in the 2k range. thats 16 secounds of FORCED REVEAL.

necro wells and marks can be used to track a stealthed theif with their spammability

and all AoE pulls (of which warrior, rev, and guardian have) can and will pull it. they can dodge it sure. but thats 1 less dodge when stealth ends

mesmer can summon clones and stealth itself. a theif will have to go through hell to kill it, most likely dying itself due to clone explosions and torment.

and ele can track theif easily by paying attention to the dmg panel to see which of its AoE attacks is hitting for dmg.

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heres a list of stuff to fight a theif with

revenant, hammer, swords, staff.

guardian. GS and that epic staff 1 with tis HUGE arc attack recking stealth.

warrior. Hammer(dem knockdowns), GS, shield(ruin back stab), and STOMP kitten

ranger. sic em, long bow, GS

engineer. lock on. reveal pulse. analyse. flamethrower. grenades.

necro. staff, wells, marks, shroud 4 and 5. GS.

mesmer….ANYTHING

ele. any AoE and evasion. knockdowns 2.

A thief stealthed and backstabbed me for 20k

Faceroll class, should be deleted from game

no counterplay to stealth

No other class lets you 22222222222 to win

My main is a mesmer

skogkatt.7586:

Think my posts are garbage?

Nnnnoo?

Where did I say that?

Let me try again with 100% blunt this time.

“Shortbow range buffs are a good suggestion. Thieves should have several range buffs since their ranged attacks are unrealistically short when compared to other class range attacks. However, since these ranges have been standard for a long time and any range bonuses we once had have been quickly nerfed, it seems unfeasible that we will receive any range tweaks anytime soon.”

Better?

skogkatt.7586:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I will leave with […] Kek

I’ll just leave you with I already said “I know as has been said Arenanet doesn’t read this forum”, but does obviously listen people who say we should be nerfed. Thank you for the FYI, anyway.

You’re welcome anytime~

I will leave with these two facts.

People want SB5 As it is nerfed.

Pistol shots fly a shorter distance than ranger’s longbow.

you let me know if 1200 is feasible.

skogkatt.7586:

we could use more Thief voices (who aren’t just being told “you just suck” by other Thief neckbeards-

Kek

Jana.6831:

Just wanted to say:
The amount of trolling going on on this forum lately is really good – outsiders (and probably devs) won’t get it, but I love it.

Only when you’ve lost everything you’re free to do anything, right?
So, thanks for the laughs I’m having while reading your insanity.

The wittiest thing in the world is an individual at wits end.

Galandil.9641:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Karl is watching the meta to see if we need it.

He’s training us to be superwarriors.

Patch notes were posted.
Withdraw coeff. was not buffed.
Teef still played in PvP.
Teef doesn’t need the buff.

/careaboutpatchnotesevenifhewrotethem

Training regimen confirmed

TheMurkMuffin.8213:

I was very much #teamrifle, however this staff is pretty bad kitten . I’m having tons of fun with it, although its not very…thief-y

Moreso than rifle though, in hindsight.

Update:

Traitlines are fine: (Except acro. Why does acro exist.)
Only problem is every other class got a stark damage buff -and mitigation, and thieves did not while the mitigation they did have in the form of traits was taken.

And now (I like to assume, Ilu Karl) the dev is sitting pensively on the 10% healing buff to withdraw, chewing his fingernails as if it would be too strong to implement it.

The fast paced gameplay is all well and good, but the shifting to the damage numbers has left thieves more melty than they were originally, when originally they were slightly less melty than ice cubes in the Sahara.

Jana.6831:

Azure, say, do you miss your thief?
You seem a bit out of con troll lately

puns are the lowest form of humor, nerf immediately

On topic:

I don’t miss him at all. I play him more than my warrior and wear broken chest armor as a fashion statement. Just because he’s underdog doesnt mean hes not fun.

That, however, doesn’t mean he should stay underdog. Bitter sarcasm is part of my theorycrafting process.

TheMurkMuffin.8213:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

TheMurkMuffin.8213:

well thanks to DD, I can solo veteran mobs and most groups of mobs… Something I couldn’t do previously. SO I’d like to think thief is in a better place. (Before I get verbally decapitated….“better place”, not the place it SHOULD be.)

I’m gonna still verbally decapitate you because DD is not core thief, and core thief is actually worse off because of the improv buff/nerf.

so:

Swish

thock

thunk

~Rolling noises~

Rule 1 of GW2 is Thief is always OP, nerf immediately.

Fixed that for you.

Thank you, I knew somewhere in my post there was the pungent stench of heresy.

TheMurkMuffin.8213:

You just wanted to verbally decapitate someone because I put the thought in your head. You’re welcome.

However, thats the problem. It SHOULD have been the core thief lol. THIS is what acro should have been…

I should have went with ASCII art.

Acro should be nothing but guarded initiation.

DD is a good save. Its palatable, but still lacking.

I ignore this because it’s a really good mask on a very poor splicer base class. Once the core is at the very least fine, I’ll be content.

This doesn’t mean DD is bad, far from it.

Morwath.9817:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Thieves are balanced

Only if everything else isn’t.

balanced

TheMurkMuffin.8213:

well thanks to DD, I can solo veteran mobs and most groups of mobs… Something I couldn’t do previously. SO I’d like to think thief is in a better place. (Before I get verbally decapitated….“better place”, not the place it SHOULD be.)

I’m gonna still verbally decapitate you because DD is not core thief, and core thief is actually worse off because of the improv buff/nerf.

so:

Swish

thock

thunk

~Rolling noises~

Rule 1 of GW2 is Thief is never good.

arenta.2953:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Mefiq.7039:

Thief is op, it hits 3k/3k/3k autoattack chain with insane dmg + evade on 3rd skill, kittenton of blocks and sustain, HE CAN EVEN EQUIP STAFF and knock/block/heal!
Thats how op thief is! aaa not, i was talking about Revs!!~!$@!$!

Ye this

they need to be nerfed immediately so they have to actually try to get wins.

When they stealth, I can’t tell if they’re going to attack me or run away, and there are absolutely no options for counterplay.

I refuse to autoattack to fish for them, I am not a barbarian.

all they do is get low, port away, reset fight ad nauseum

Nerf staff too I hate when thieves can give up stealth for 6k crits

easy way to counter them
since u apparently have never played one

use AoEs

this ranged from necro staff marks and wells

to warrior GS

or even normal sword 1.

if u see the weapon’s auto attack chain going. then u hitting.

or use ranger’s pet “sic em”
or reveneant’s stealth reveal
or engineers stealth reveal.

those 3 are all hard counters to thief.

but we can’t give all classes stealth counters, as otherwise stealth is useless

so yes, there are counterplays

and traps work well against them

and yes. u need to be a barbarian. CAUSE IT WORKS.

thief has lowest hp pool in game(with ele)
and 2nd lowest armor

This makes too much sense
I only understand nerfs

I have two that I use and one that I’m leveling.

My other char slots flux in and out of existence to learn how to counter builds in pvp.

Thieves are balanced

It hard counters chronomancers. It should be nerfed to only remove vulnerability when you land an attack above 90%, because a guarding action if done properly is not vulnerable.

Karl is watching the meta to see if we need it.

He’s training us to be superwarriors.

Gabe.3426:

Maugetarr.6823:

As people have been saying, it’s about learning the mob and what attacks you need to dodge. It’s not for relaxed play.

Thief is still a lot of fun in PvE, both HoT and core. I ran a fractal (Thaumanova) today that ended up with 4 thieves+1 necro and worked out just fine. I’ve done some of the map meta events in HoT and can’t say I’ve died more or less than any particular class there. Thieves have problems with the defensive lines, but offensively we’re still alright. One thing I have to say is that I have the most fun on my thief.

This

+1 to this.

Thief is highly reactive, which means to be effective with it you need to know what attacks your target can use, when theyll use them, and the best strategies for avoiding or ruining execution of those attacks.

Get that down pat and youll be fine.

Magi.

Crit build Magi.

DO IT.

Mefiq.7039:

Thief is op, it hits 3k/3k/3k autoattack chain with insane dmg + evade on 3rd skill, kittenton of blocks and sustain, HE CAN EVEN EQUIP STAFF and knock/block/heal!
Thats how op thief is! aaa not, i was talking about Revs!!~!$@!$!

Ye this

they need to be nerfed immediately so they have to actually try to get wins.

When they stealth, I can’t tell if they’re going to attack me or run away, and there are absolutely no options for counterplay.

I refuse to autoattack to fish for them, I am not a barbarian.

all they do is get low, port away, reset fight ad nauseum

Nerf staff too I hate when thieves can give up stealth for 6k crits

LastHope.8127:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

update:

I meant I DONT Think Regen needs a nerf.

I got so tied up in sarcasm that I ended up having a Freudian slip.

So you’re saying let regen stack but don’t nerf the scaling to healingpower? I think that would be a bit to much, but I’m sure these things would get tested if the devs would ever give it serious thought.

direct access and outging/incoming sources would have to be looked at, yes, but it could open up some new builds.

update:

I meant I DONT Think Regen needs a nerf.

I got so tied up in sarcasm that I ended up having a Freudian slip.

Warrior is now no longer bad.

Regen is op because thieves get it

I do think regen needs a nerf. how people would go about stacking regen though. Most classes that have access to it only have it for a few seconds at a time.

seems like a buff to guards and a nerf to everyone else, imo

You know what I love?

When players say a game that they paid 50 bucks for is p2w as if the content that would clearly allow them to win is not more or less easily attainable, if not obtained already.

What do you want, lmao

Jana.6831:

Anyway, I think at some point people will really be convinced that it’s impossible that a thief can kill them, so they will cry hacks every time it happens.

Thank you for this

Daharahj.1325:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Crinn.7864:

ya’ll dumb.

Hot is b2p not p2w.

It’s just like how back at launch you had to buy the core game to play the core game.
HoT is the exact same, you have to buy HoT to play HoT.

By ya’ll definition of p2w, every single MMO on the market is currently p2w.

P2w:

“If someone can give a company money and get something good for it, then the game is pay to win.”

Lol, then every game in existance is pay 2 win, including single player rpgs…

Of course.

Anything to blame something but myself for my dissatisfaction with these mmos.

Crinn.7864:

ya’ll dumb.

Hot is b2p not p2w.

It’s just like how back at launch you had to buy the core game to play the core game.
HoT is the exact same, you have to buy HoT to play HoT.

By ya’ll definition of p2w, every single MMO on the market is currently p2w.

P2w:

“If someone can give a company money and get something good for it, then the game is pay to win.”

incisorr.9502:

ofcourse its p2w , you don’t even need to use your brain for this

any game in which you can pay to have more skills in “equalized” pvp than your opponent is p2w lol, this is pure common sense how hard is it to comprehend it?

i’ve never seen a mmo expansion or patch that adds new content and skills and blocks them for people, you can block new content and areas and kitten but skills? in equalized pvp? please who the hell are you kidding? most ridiculous f2p model i’ve ever seen

i guess you could argue having the option to play with base game without having to buy expansion is good but its still equalized pvp and extra skills which you’re going to have to go against and that makes it p2w

the issue of how insanely overpowered these specs are is completely different
DH is broken as F
DDevil made thieves go from already pretty good in 1v1 against non-direct-counters to the most overpowered one button spamming kitten. It not only made them stronger but it also made them easier and dumber to play since your new dodges and skills do insane dmg and are permanent dodge animation, lowered the class skillcap even more
Revenant 1 does 3 times more dmg than any other class’s 1 and in general the class has so much mobility , survivability, dmg but they are more or less ok to deal with in comparison with all the cancer that was added

and so on and so forth

overall the way the pvp is evolving is also dumb, the new specs are overloaded of everything that was good and mattered from before hot

No clearer truth has been spoken.

Nerf thieves

Edo.9048:

So it’s OK for a flavor/offspec sort of playstyle, but one should keep a different set of weapons for actually contributing to a group, no? The lack of any AoE damage sounds frustrating.

How often do professions see changes? Could it be possible that six months from now PP would have a multi-target attack, for example? Or buffs to its single target damage, as it seems to be the weapon’s specialty?

Once upon a time it had one…

Its okay. I can get a bit of aoe with sigil of fire, but single target dps is very comfortable imo.

I prefer it when im not using d/d.

Xillllix.3485:

It’s not just the Dragon Hunter that has been balanced poorly. Ever played staff ele in PvP? Yesterday I got destroyed by a reaper with 5-6k cleaves and 1-shot by a Daredevil with a 11k vault and a 6k uppercut following.

Meanwhile on staff ele it takes 3-4 seconds to channel any kittening skill that does 40% that damage.

Reaper
Daredevil
staff elementalists

one of these things is not like the others