Guild Wars 2

Redball.7236:

NinjaEd.3946:

Kolly.9872:

aimz.6287:

Why ARENA net WHY??? Why do you listen to these terrible players?

Just because Devs are terrible players too

Should watch the “Fractured” preview gameplay, where the dev died over and over and over on his p/p thief. Granted he was ridiculous for using nothing but p/p to begin with but… it was laughable. Even his buddy behind him was laughing.

Would like to point out that dev playing that thief wasn’t necessarily a balance dev, and has no obligation to even play the game even if he is designing the content. I’d imagine some of the people that work at Anet aren’t particularly good at the game because they don’t play much in their spare time.

Also throw in the fact it was a test account on a test server (not live), which means it’s not his actual character and likely pre-made by someone else and everything already selected. The guy might be playing a class he’s never played before.

Do you mean that Devs are balancing a class (Thief), they have never played before?They are balancing a class (Thief) without actually know how that class work?
…That makes sense

AikijinX.6258:

This does not show nor prove anything. The clips you had of your thief fights were against easy lackluster thieves that didn’t know how to play up to a thief’s true capability.

Oh My…
Instead when a thief manage to kill an opponent in WvW, the opponent is for sure a PRO player that didn’t do any mistake but the thief is an OP noobish class that can win easily vs anyone right?

That said I found that first thief of the video being quite good, not the best I have seen but even the worst, simply the warrior outplayed him cos he knew what to do against a thief. Unfortunately a lot of people in this game don’t know how to use properly different classes that’s why they complain on the forum.

Back on Topic: nice video OP, we need more people like you that can prove things with facts and not only empty words

EDIT: this deserves to be shown on other forums too

aimz.6287:

Why ARENA net WHY??? Why do you listen to these terrible players?

Just because Devs are terrible players too

Vitalij.7193:

hello guys. I am pure spvper multiple class. I want to offer to players reroll warriors. what for work hard with another classes if u can play powerfull easy mode broken warriors. and keep play it until Anet nerf this stupid warrior.as soon as pvp will have balance then will worth to play different class. I am rank 44 now, most of matchs I did with warrior “Lavinskij” its not a trolling post,all crap coments will be ignored. I just want balance in pvp,playng my self thief/elementalist/necro/ranger/warrior. its terrible how another classes ( with random builds) weak compare to warrior. I am 99% sure this is waste of time make this Topic,but I can spend my few minutes for write it. if most of peoples start play warriors,and on forums will be post about BALANCE spvp,nerf warior.then I think anet will stop creating new rubbish for pve,and will focus on pvp balance.

P.S I am very sorry about my terrible English. I hope most of you will understood what I trying to tell.

…or we can just quit this game all together like many others already did…

….Teso Online Beta test today….

I quit this game just before the last patch, when I read how this patch would balance the game.
Playing more competitive games as lol right now.
Having lot of fun finally and not planning to come back on this crap anymore, I’m having fun also checking the forum time by time and seeing the frustration of all these die-harder thieves that are still wasting their time on this game while still WvW noobs are crying for nerfs on the thief.
Nothing has change from Day1 and nothing will change at all.

Basilisk Venom is an Elite:
- it should be instant cast
- 2 hits
. Unbreakable by Stunbreaks
. and it should give 5 second of stability or immunity to melee attacks (Dagger Storm reflects projectiles and gives 8s of Stability on top of a decent damage output and cripple)
BV now it’s nothing more than a weak utility, usefull only with Lyssa Runes

Are you still playing this crap? Too bad

Tier 1
- Warrior
- Mesmer
- Ranger
- Necromancer
- Engineer
- Guardian

Tier 2
- Elementalist

Tier 3
- Empty

Deleted
- Thief

The Game Slayer.7632:

Kolly.9872:

Keiel.7489:

Kolly.9872:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Kolly.9872:

The only difference is that in the case of warriors there are no false accusations. warriors are really OP

L2P noob. Make a warrior, play around with it. Find out what a warrior does by playing one yourself.

ok you called me noob. I have over 100+ tPvP wins with my warrior, of course it’s not the only class I can play but I am sure I have a better knowledge than you on how to play this class. How many tPvP did you have? How many tPvP did you played on your Warrior?
I am honest when I’m saying that this class is so overpowered compared to anyone else. I have my personal experience supporting me, I don’t play many hotjoins if not for a quick testing, so my knowledge comes from tPvP only and I can compare Warriors to at least Thieves, Necros, Rangers and Guardians since I usually switch between those classes when I play with my team, and I can assure you that the warrior is the most easiest faceroll class I have ever played. And in conclusion I am not just talking of that perma stun\regen build that everyone and his mother already knows, there are even more OP builds around than that one. I would say that the warrior is the most completed class reguarding viable tournament builds that can be made.
Now go back to play your PvE mate and thank you for remember me I am still noob compared to better and more experienced players, of course I am not talking of you.

If he has 200+ wins on his warrior in tPvP does it make his argument much stronger than yours?

in that case we can start a discussion on a solid base, cos both of us can bring valid points in the discussion based on the real experience, but since he doesn’t have any tPvP experience while I have on many different classes and still he is calling me “noob” not the opposite, well yes my point is more valid than its. I can compare thief, Necro, Ranger, Guardian gameplay to warrior and I can say Warrior is OP compared to these classes.
I never said I am pro and never called other “noobs”, actually I even admitted I am noob compared to more experienced players, what I’m saying is that tPvP experience matters a lot. But usually the less experienced players are the ones that fill their arguments with trash talking.

Ah. but the entire basis of this thread is what Zacharry(op) had posted. I was simply showing you the other side. Now you see. I hate thieves, but hey thats me and Ill get over it. Throwing the L2P argument is by its fundamentals simply discrediting the other players experience in the game. I literally wreck warriors, I don’t see how they’re a problem. But yet you do? Maybe its a L2P issue? See? Back to square one. You see how all these people defend thieves by saying ‘L2P’, and, that’s an okay argument to use apparently. Its in your signature. And you cannot deny it. But wait until someone tells you to ‘L2P’ against another profession that you clearly think is overpowered and you go crazy I think this is the point that the OP was trying to get at. The L2P argument is only as credible as the person who uses it, and somone who uses the L2P argument shouldn’t ever use it against another profession, or else they’re a hypocrite.

LOL where I have said that I cannot kill Warriors? I was just saying that I have experience in tPvP (not WvW) with different classes, something that you don’t have, and I can compare those classes and actually I admit that the Warrior is the most faceroll class that can accomplish many different roles in tPvP with easy and still kill anyone else 1v1.
L2P was used by thieves towards those people that showed their lack of knowledge and still cryed river on the forum.
I don’t cry river, Warrior is actually one of my preferred tPvP class, but I don’t lie by saying that this class is fine.

You can wreck warriors in WvW? fine
Wanna try to wreck my warrior 1v1 then while I hold a node and make point for my team?
Or in a team fight while I support my dpsser teammates using shouts heal and warhorn skills? crazy right? Actually this build was overbuffed too in the 15th october patch.
Well when you wanna have a try, give me a shot

Keiel.7489:

Kolly.9872:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Kolly.9872:

The only difference is that in the case of warriors there are no false accusations. warriors are really OP

L2P noob. Make a warrior, play around with it. Find out what a warrior does by playing one yourself.

ok you called me noob. I have over 100+ tPvP wins with my warrior, of course it’s not the only class I can play but I am sure I have a better knowledge than you on how to play this class. How many tPvP did you have? How many tPvP did you played on your Warrior?
I am honest when I’m saying that this class is so overpowered compared to anyone else. I have my personal experience supporting me, I don’t play many hotjoins if not for a quick testing, so my knowledge comes from tPvP only and I can compare Warriors to at least Thieves, Necros, Rangers and Guardians since I usually switch between those classes when I play with my team, and I can assure you that the warrior is the most easiest faceroll class I have ever played. And in conclusion I am not just talking of that perma stun\regen build that everyone and his mother already knows, there are even more OP builds around than that one. I would say that the warrior is the most completed class reguarding viable tournament builds that can be made.
Now go back to play your PvE mate and thank you for remember me I am still noob compared to better and more experienced players, of course I am not talking of you.

If he has 200+ wins on his warrior in tPvP does it make his argument much stronger than yours?

in that case we can start a discussion on a solid base, cos both of us can bring valid points in the discussion based on the real experience, but since he doesn’t have any tPvP experience while I have on many different classes and still he is calling me “noob” not the opposite, well yes my point is more valid than its. I can compare thief, Necro, Ranger, Guardian gameplay to warrior and I can say Warrior is OP compared to these classes.
I never said I am pro and never called other “noobs”, actually I even admitted I am noob compared to more experienced players, what I’m saying is that tPvP experience matters a lot. But usually the less experienced players are the ones that fill their arguments with trash talking.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Kolly.9872:

The only difference is that in the case of warriors there are no false accusations. warriors are really OP

L2P noob. Make a warrior, play around with it. Find out what a warrior does by playing one yourself.

ok you called me noob. I have over 100+ tPvP wins with my warrior, of course it’s not the only class I can play but I am sure I have a better knowledge than you on how to play this class. How many tPvP did you have? How many tPvP did you played on your Warrior?
I am honest when I’m saying that this class is so overpowered compared to anyone else. I have my personal experience supporting me, I don’t play many hotjoins if not for a quick testing, so my knowledge comes from tPvP only and I can compare Warriors to at least Thieves, Necros, Rangers and Guardians since I usually switch between those classes when I play with my team, and I can assure you that the warrior is the most easiest faceroll class I have ever played. And in conclusion I am not just talking of that perma stun\regen build that everyone and his mother already knows, there are even more OP builds around than that one. I would say that the warrior is the most completed class reguarding viable tournament builds that can be made.
Now go back to play your PvE mate and thank you for remember me I am still noob compared to better and more experienced players, of course I am not talking of you.

The only difference is that in the case of warriors there are no false accusations. warriors are really OP

let’s play another game now:
let’s show how thieves are OP 1v1 against any other class

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

No this class will not get any better unless the devs get off their warriors. stealthing is the least of this profession’s problems.

I don’t even know why you are still on here Sand.

I think you underestimate the hatred non stealthers have toward perma stealth. I hear it all the time from my guild mates and server mates. Intense hatred. I know anet hears it too. In fact developers on my server have said that they get tons of grief about it. So, logically, they will be reluctant to buff this class further when the source of that hatred still exists. I with for improvements too such as more tools to deal with lolwarriors, but the hue and cry from those who loathe permastealth would be overwhelming. Just logical.

Well A-NEt received a lot of awsome tips on how to deal with perma stealth thief (that btw is due to only one weapon set – D\P – and complained most and exclusively in WvW). Now I don’t want to repeat all these advices that were given out.
A-Net is simply unable to make the right choices and instead of listening to the most experienced players, is messing up the game patch after patch, breaking things that are working fine and still not fixing what realy needs fixs.

HOT FIX this kitten basilisk venom + daze bug
HOT FIX this kitten pistol whip not existing stun duration

how much time we have to wait for a fix on something that YOU and YOUR LAST PATCH broke?
I don’t care anymore if you take 3 months for a pvp patch that doesn’t change anything and let the meta being the mess it is now for another 3 months, I am downhearted nowadays, I know you can’t do anything good even given enaugh time, but AT LEAST you should fix in a matter of time the things that were working and now are no more working since your last update.

deepwinter.9015:

Oct 29th:
– Stealth has been removed from the game across all classes (except Mesmer).
– Replacing stealth, we’ve added a new game mechanic: Big Red Arrow.

Big Red Arrow:
All damage is redirected toward nearest Thief or Engineer. If nether profession is present, damage is directed toward the nearest Thief of Engineer in a random borderland. If no Thief or Engineer is online, Warriors have increased damage by 33% until a Thief or Engineer logs in.

this is a nerf to warrior, there are is always at least a thief or engineer online

evilapprentice.6379:

Kolly.9872:

evilapprentice.6379:

Kolly.9872:

the only fix I would see working on FS\LS is that it should activate LS only when FS actually hits the target.

This is a lose/lose proposition. While I’m not against the spirit of the change, it would allow Actual evade spam. Forums kittens would be up in arms about how thieves “evade everything” with their kittenty anectodal evidence, and It would be hard to counter in a logical manner, due to general forum IQ.

I see what you mean. And I agree that it would bring even more a FS spam meta for dodging, but not a lot different from SB skill 3 or pistol whip evade or D\D skill 3 evade.
If A-net wouldn’t be so lazy they could easily fix it by raising up the initiative cost on FS by 1 and lowering the ini cost on LS by 1. The total cost of the combo would be 5 ini like now, but it would prevent in part a mindless spamming of the only FS.

I disagree – FS evade is much different than Disabling shot, PW, and DB.

DB, as an evade, is garbage – there are periods during the animation when you’re open. Any half decent player will exploit them and destroy you. PW is…laughable at the moment – when it gets fixed, we can talk about it. DS’s evade is solid, but it doesn’t facilitate something like LS on hit (In this proposed change), so there is a noticeable difference.

On PW I was just talking about the evade part of the skill. I know that the skill is garbage at the moment since the stun duration nerf, but the evade part is on par with the FS evade.

Same for Disabling Shot, one is a gap opener that does few damage but cripple and evade, FS is a gap closer that does few damage and evade. I would say that on the paper DS is even better than FS if we don’t consider the LS chain.

Regarding DB I agree with you, I shouldn’t compare the evade on these 2 skills, but it’s the DB evade that needs a little buff for a 4ini skill.

I still think that making FS cost 4ini and LS activate only if FS hits and cost 1ini would improve a lot the thief gameplay on that set. Of course we cannot be sure about that without testing it and seeing how it evolves over time.

evilapprentice.6379:

Kolly.9872:

the only fix I would see working on FS\LS is that it should activate LS only when FS actually hits the target.

This is a lose/lose proposition. While I’m not against the spirit of the change, it would allow Actual evade spam. Forums kittens would be up in arms about how thieves “evade everything” with their kittenty anectodal evidence, and It would be hard to counter in a logical manner, due to general forum IQ.

I see what you mean. And I agree that it would bring even more a FS spam meta for dodging, but not a lot different from SB skill 3 or pistol whip evade or D\D skill 3 evade.
If A-net wouldn’t be so lazy they could easily fix it by raising up the initiative cost on FS by 1 and lowering the ini cost on LS by 1. The total cost of the combo would be 5 ini like now, but it would prevent in part a mindless spamming of the only FS.

the only fix I would see working on FS\LS is that it should activate LS only when FS actually hits the target.
Then thieves can still steal 2 boons, that was the only counter we had to boon stacking builds

Sanduskel.1850:

I do fine on my thief. Perhaps YOU are playing wrong?

Oh my divinity that never and ever did 1 single tournament! Oh wait, tPvP is for noob right? WvW is the only thing that matters, where I can kill uplevelled scrubs with all my shiny ascended gears… and my OP foods up.
Only 1 thing, Thieves are not viable in TPVP do you understand dude? I don’t give a kitten of your ability to kill people while roaming in WvW.
Of course thieves are still being used for a fast backup decontesting but they are no way as efficient as other classes, nor in 1v1 nor in a team fight.

And in case you missed that one, go here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Competitive-Builds/3096336/quote and read the Lux answer, it is realy well explained why thieves are not viable in the current meta compared to other classes

The thief will disappear but in its place we will have the new SpiritWarriorMancer

Stealthasaur.2198:

Kolly.9872:

Locuz.2651:

For example: Getting hit by thieves from stealth for 12 k (backstab), while being in full “defensive gear” (2840 armor) as engi is imo absurd. I cant imagine what he would hit me for if i was in zerker gear. 1 shot maybe?

What? the max a thief bs can hit me when I run a full glass cannon spec in sPvP is 10k and only if the thief is running a 25 30 x x x build with 10+ stack of might + assassin signet and if critical attack. That thief has 14k hp and has to use at least 2 out of 3 utilities and hope that everything goes well.
When I run a full tankish build with 3k armor, I see 5k BS at best.
Show some proofs of those 12k BS and link your build.

I guarantee you that I could backstab you for more than 5k easy lol. I was testing googles build out the other day and I backstabbed a bunker guardian for 9k without fire proc, might stack or vuln.

First 9k is not 12k as stated by the OP, it’s funny how these threads always start with high and unreal numbers and then after a couple of pages end up being nearer to the reality of things.

Second I have yet to see screenshots of those mythical 12k-9k BS in tPvP on a real and expert guardian bunker. Link the bunker guardian spec also. I can guarantee than on my bunker your damage alone is laughable for me.
Two coordinated high damage dpsser instead could be a problem, and it’s right in this way.

Third Google build is a 30 30 x x x build, a build focused for dealing the max single target damage possible for thieves, as I said it require perfect timing and the use of all its utilities just for 1 single hit, leaving the thief “naked” after that one and even then he cannot 1shot anyone from 100 to 0 in 1 second as the OP want us to believe.
Google build needs a coordinated spike damage with another dps, like every other dps build in this game. I have yet to see a build able to down from 100 to 0 in few seconds another build specced bunker in a 1v1 only situation, if the bunker is not afk and know what to do.

Fourth this is just another useless QQ thread

Locuz.2651:

For example: Getting hit by thieves from stealth for 12 k (backstab), while being in full “defensive gear” (2840 armor) as engi is imo absurd. I cant imagine what he would hit me for if i was in zerker gear. 1 shot maybe?

What? the max a thief bs can hit me when I run a full glass cannon spec in sPvP is 10k and only if the thief is running a 25 30 x x x build with 10+ stack of might + assassin signet and if critical attack. That thief has 14k hp and has to use at least 2 out of 3 utilities and hope that everything goes well.
When I run a full tankish build with 3k armor, I see 5k BS at best.
Show some proofs of those 12k BS and link your build.

- I think hotjoin should be some sort of un-ranked match where you can still join with your other 4 team mates and test team composition and tactic without gaining or losing rank.
- if you want to play ranked match then go soloQ or TeamQ
-if you’re solo but still don’t want to play rank, you can always queue for hotjoin and be assigned to a 4 men team. You will still learn to play better than in the current hotjoin state.

Lux.7169:

Builds aren’t the problem with thieves. There are a variety of solid builds out there even though 2 have solidified its place as the alpha predator builds.

The main problem is two-fold, the condition meta coupled with the shift towards a tank-meta.

The lack of condition removal is crushing to a thief. Not that we can’t access it, but rather by doing so we sacrifice the necessary pressure to 1v1 the meta condi classes.

Why do I say 1v1? In team-fights thieves are a liability. If you get focused you have to blow CD’s to JUST survive. Meaning there goes your burst or your safety net (depending if you ‘survive’ with disable shot or shadowstep or stealth). While you can be useful in team-fights, it’s unusual to see a thief consistently in them; hence the roaming title we’re notorious for.

Back to 1v1. In this meta far (enemy close) will typically be defended by warrior, engi, spirit ranger, guardian or in rare situations some form of necro.

Put all of the machismo stuff aside. I don’t care how many rangers you can 1v3 etc etc etc. Can you beat Elita One in a 1v1 at far? Can you beat Eurantien at a 1v1 at far. Eura is a bad example since he’s running a plethora of off-beat builds. Just because you 1v1’d some ranger means nothing. It has no bearing on whether or not rangers are where they should be with regard to the meta. To do justice I find it useful seeing how the top players are performing against each other AND considering how the builds fade throughout LB. I’m using LB as a reference only because it’s where I actually have experience. They are definitely flawed and need to be re-worked. But it’s no surprise that caed, cruuk, magic tokerr are CONSTANTLY in the top 100.

Back on topic, here are my thoughts, and I have a TON of experience:
Spirit Ranger 1v1 far: I honestly have no idea how other thieves do it or if they even try. I have personally found my niche to beating them and it was conveniently what I’ve been running even before that point. By this I mean I haven’t lost to a spirit ranger 1v1 far in as many top tier matches I can remember. Elita, Deku are the two most recent that come to mind. However I don’t run meta since I bring smoke screen.

Since I don’t know how other thieves have been performing I consider it an extremely difficult match-up for most since they can’t afford to make mistakes and the enemy can afford to make tons.

1v1 Bunker Warrior. From my knowledge it’s literally impossible and a complete waste of time to 1v1 them. I don’t care if you SAY you’ve 1v1’d a pure bunker warrior. Have you 1v1’d Juaraz? If no, then unless you name a credible top tier bunker warrior it means nothing to me. If they’re more of a hybrid then it’s less of a problem. Even if someone like Caed CAN take down Juaraz, I’m estimating a 2minute fight while Juaraz owns the point and doesn’t get decapped those entire 2 minutes.

1v1 guardian. The problem is high-level home pt guardians have become increasingly rare since warriors are doing it better (passive proc to stability and an active proc). A top tier guardian shouldn’t die -quickly- to a thief. Meaning expect a 1 fight even in top tier matches.

1v1 Necro. Now we get into necro a shadey area where there’s a ton of really bad ones, and some amazing ones. The biggest name coming to mind immediately is Jery E, someone who has been play necro before they were buffed and has had that experience advantage. No recent 1v1 with him comes to mind but I am pretty sure he could obliterate me. Scrub necros will blow their evades when you’re not even bursting so it doesn’t even matter. What matters is the necros who KNOW when to blow their fears, their dodges, hit you with chill, torment, etc. It literally becomes a hard-counter at that point since they can react to you, and your only reaction besides blowing your dodges on as many wells as you can is to disengage…

My thoughts on thief. I think thief is in a good place. I do not think the meta is in a good place. Risk vs Reward: thieves typically put everything on the line to go as high in damage as possible while still maintaining some nifty tricks. I think thieves should be rewarded more for taking this risk, and they should be rewarded more for interrupting key spells.

It’s just not fun for most people to play thief when your friend can hop on a warrior, attach the meta build and just eat your attacks with no punishment for speccing to be so tanky. He would even kill you if you didn’t disengage.

Right now thieves are great for destroying bads, and fun in casual play, but when you start playing in the higher echelons you realize how easy it is to exploit the evades, condi spam, and tankiness in the game.

We can close this useless topic now. Finally someone competent spoke true things.

let’s make every elite having shorter cd when missing ok?
Man it’s your’s and your teammates fault if you miss a ress. Just coordinate better next time. And I always use the ress banner on my warrior when in tournaments, but it’s just my bad when I can’t ress someone.

I have been saying this from 5 mins after the last patch, but A-Net seems to not care of us.
If you are running a 30 points in trickery build with daze on steal and you use basilisk venom and then steal, the daze effect overwrite the stun effect from daze. Basically is like we give a free stun break to our target. it’s a shame that A-Net broke in such a way 1 of our elite and it is still doing nothing to fix it.

Arganthium I like your build, I keep using it when I go on tPvP on my thief, but saying that this build does more daage then a 10 30 0 30 0 s\d is false.
Your build is still good if not better in a team fight situation where your damage is supported by at least another heavy dps. Nowadays against people running more tankish build, your damage output is not enough, in an 1v1 situation you lack the burst that other builds have. This build is very strong against other squishy dps build, cos it has high mobility and good sustained dmg.

add 1 second invulnerability to stun everytime you’re stunned = spam problem solved
add cooldown to Burst skills if they are dodged or missed = same as above

Sanduskel.1850:

Well many of us enjoy playing our thieves and don’t agree that this class is broken. You attack anyone who disagrees with you on the state of this class.

Well I still like to play this class too, it’s my main and my only lvl 80 since my gameplay is restricted to tPvP and I am too lazy for levelling other chars. But even if you like this class, you cannot say that the thief doesn’t need a lot of serious fix, and patch after patch I am seeing more things broken than fixed, that’s why I am disappointed. We voice our problem or A-Net will always think that thieves are good and don’t need nothing, while we still need a lot. We don’t need buffs on our strongest builds but we need more builds and utilities and traits viable. And the things un-intentionally broken with the last patch MUST have an hotfix, but I don’t see it coming anytime soon, and we know that A-Net is fast at hot fixing when it is a PvE related issue.

Serious Thought.5394:

Well, hopefully, someone will try out my new-found build and at least tell me how viable it is [[IN THEIR OPINION]]. I have used it in sPvP and WvW with a high success rate. If it doesn’t work for anyone else, I need to closet the Thief and look elsewhere for a good class.

30/0/30/0/10- Pistol/Dagger and Shortbow
The Power row- Venoms grant might, venoms recharge faster, venoms last one extra time.

The Healing row- Stealth blinds, venoms siphon health when they hit (it adds dps and makes you far more survivable) and venoms apply to nearby allies as well as their benefits.

The Class row(steal)- This is preference, you could toss this into Acrobatics for might dodges or faster stealth movement. I have caltrops for the cripple because this is a ranged build.

HiS, Spider/Skale/Basilisk Venom + Shadow Refuge.
Single target, very easy- Cloak&Dagger+Steal for that ranged stealth + gap closer- dodge for caltrops that don’t break stealth and use Pistol 1 in stealth (no venom yet). Wait for revealed to end (number 3 is great, it gives you a free evade basically-use on HB or similar). Use HiS and Spider/Skale Venom- toss down Shadow Refuge, tap Basilisk venom- stay in the SR field, use Auto 1 for a massive lifesteal. Field+skill+trait. Also applies high condi. Should be downed or will down soon- if not down, your steal should be back shortly, keep evading repeat rotation or swap to shortbow and escape.

Multi-target is Shortbow- Pop Spid/Skal venoms and just auto (this works for 3 targets or less, otherwise just run- I haven’t made this work for 3 yet, but 2 is fabulous) until you run out of venoms. Tap your 3 if they are close otherwise, HiS and do poison field and immob the melee if there is one or the fragile if not. Stay alive for that revealed, make sure to use steal on whichever is situationally profitable (always thief if there is one, makes escape possible), SR when you get stealth available again- pop poison fields on top of them until you get 4s of stealth left. Use Basilisk venom on whichever is lower or more dangerous. Lower-burst it down with your might stacks:Dangerous-kill the weak one.

Again, this works for me (shortbow is just if they aren’t perfectly coordinated (blind guard+fear necro for example) and I want someone elses opinion. =/

Sorry for wall of text. I have noticed that thieves are less and less viable per patch… only reason I see for nerffest is that no one seems to understand thief gameplay unless they run a backstab build… =/ Above post, your signature says it all.

by the way I have never said this build or the other builds you posted before are not good. I’m just saying that before talking about “competitive builds” you should at least try them in a serious tournament (that is the only place where competitive builds realy work), everything else is counter productive.
have you tried those builds with success in wvw? realy? who cares! That’s not competitive. Your opponent were good? They were using top gears and foods? We will never know cos WvW is not meant to be balanced.
At the moment the only 2 builds that are being used by those few thieves that still play this class in tournaments are d\p Caed’s build and Jumper’s build with few changes. We have proves that those builds are still competitive. Everything else might be good for hotjoin and some soloQ.
In the end, the p\d venom share build you’re talking about is nothing realy original, I think that was already tested by many of us and it didn’t worked simply because venoms require too many traits for being viable like other utilities.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Don’t sweat the little things man.

Hot Join is filled with baddies that rage about all kinds of stuff. Most of the time they are just angry because they are frustrated about sucking at this game. If someone really goes out of their way to get under your skin, then you can make a little game out of it.

I had a guy cursing at me, getting real personal and being really over the top one time, so I put him on my friend list temporarily, farmed him until he left the server I was on, and then followed him as he jumped to 4-5 other servers trying to get away from me. I usually just ignore the rage, but unleashing the fury on a particularly irritating player from time to time can be cathartic. Do with this what you will.

oh you’re so mean dude

evilapprentice.6379:

Kolly.9872:

Incurafy.6329:

I don’t mean anything bad by this at all, but if you think that any of those builds with the exception of the 20/20/0/0/30 one are viable in a competitive environment then you have no idea what you’re talking about. :S

The two builds mentioned by infantrydev are the only two real viable builds that we have, and I would even go as far as to say that the 10/30/0/0/30 D/P build isn’t even that great since you don’t even have that much burst damage and hardly any survivability.

To not be a kitten and answer your questions though, the builds work roughly like this:

10/30/0/30/0 S/D + SB: Far point assaulter and roamer, uses AA, Infiltrator’s Strike and Flanking/Larcenous Strike for great sustain and mobility and to remove boons from boon bunkers. Can survive in the team fight if necessary thanks to high evasion and 30 in Acrobatics. Can also apply heavy damage and poison with SB when necessary.

10/30/0/0/30 D/P + SB: Same deal again, far point assaulter and roamer, uses burst combo to bring down low health targets and turn a fight in your teams favour. Cannot survive in the middle of the team fight but is able to apply heavy damage and poison with SB until a burst opportunity arises.

I can provide links to these builds if you’d like.

This!

Also the only way to prove that a build works in a competitive environment, is to show it with a video.
The only thief’s builds that work at the moment are those 2 posted by Incurafy.
Why? Because they are the only thief’s builds that we are seeing everytime a thief is playing a Final right now.
In the PAX finals as an exemple there were Lady Nag Nag 10 30 0 30 0 and Caed 10 30 0 0 30

I would say that also 10 0 0 30 30 s\d sb is a good build but since no one is showing it in a real tournament I cannot prove it right.

So please show proves or stop saying that Venom Share, D\P perma stealth with health regen or P\D cond dmg build are competitive builds, even if they “came out of your mind”

10/0/0/30/30 s/d sb isn’t a bad build, but it has too many glaring weaknesses for the current meta, the biggest one being it doesn’t do enough damage to kill even the kittentiest played warrior with 20 points in Defense and HS. Its TTK is too long, allowing even a semi-coordinated team to overwhelm you. The only appreciable benefit is you can keep a point flipped in a 2 on 1 for a -long- time and still escape.

yeah exactly what you said, well explained also.
I used to play this build before the meta changes but it’s not rewarding anymore.

Incurafy.6329:

I don’t mean anything bad by this at all, but if you think that any of those builds with the exception of the 20/20/0/0/30 one are viable in a competitive environment then you have no idea what you’re talking about. :S

The two builds mentioned by infantrydev are the only two real viable builds that we have, and I would even go as far as to say that the 10/30/0/0/30 D/P build isn’t even that great since you don’t even have that much burst damage and hardly any survivability.

To not be a kitten and answer your questions though, the builds work roughly like this:

10/30/0/30/0 S/D + SB: Far point assaulter and roamer, uses AA, Infiltrator’s Strike and Flanking/Larcenous Strike for great sustain and mobility and to remove boons from boon bunkers. Can survive in the team fight if necessary thanks to high evasion and 30 in Acrobatics. Can also apply heavy damage and poison with SB when necessary.

10/30/0/0/30 D/P + SB: Same deal again, far point assaulter and roamer, uses burst combo to bring down low health targets and turn a fight in your teams favour. Cannot survive in the middle of the team fight but is able to apply heavy damage and poison with SB until a burst opportunity arises.

I can provide links to these builds if you’d like.

This!

Also the only way to prove that a build works in a competitive environment, is to show it with a video.
The only thief’s builds that work at the moment are those 2 posted by Incurafy.
Why? Because they are the only thief’s builds that we are seeing everytime a thief is playing a Final right now.
In the PAX finals as an exemple there were Lady Nag Nag 10 30 0 30 0 and Caed 10 30 0 0 30

I would say that also 10 0 0 30 30 s\d sb is a good build but since no one is showing it in a real tournament I cannot prove it right.

So please show proves or stop saying that Venom Share, D\P perma stealth with health regen or P\D cond dmg build are competitive builds, even if they “came out of your mind”

I don’t understand why so much hate on the OP.
I agree that simply crying about the thieves state won’t bring anything to support the class, but let’s face it, we are not getting the same love some other classes got. Patch after patch we are seeing undeserved “fix” to some of our skills that no one understand and we are not realy get fixed where it realy needs. We sill have a lot of skills\utility bugged or under used because under performing compared to others.
I don’t think we should just cry but making A-Net notice we are unhappy with something is good. At least that is what other classes did and are doing and they received buffs and nerf on the right things. We should voice ourself and not just keep saying that “everything is good cos I can still kill scrubs in wvw”. I don’t want huge buffs to my class but at least seeing the right things fixed.
Also the last patch broke a lot of things that required an hotfix but still A-Net has not done anything about it, even if they said the problem was on their list.
Just 2 things that come to my mind:
-Pistol whip stun duration was broken with the stuns change that was mainly a fix to warriors
-basilisk venom effect (an elite skill) is overwritten by daze if used during the stun duration

Not fixing those 2 un-intended nerfs very soon is like not showing love for us

Why even you care about some hotjoin scrubs? Everyone crying about hotjoin zergers “omg you’re only good at zerg me 5v1” or just spamming “noob” to everyone, he doesn’t need any reply. Keep playing and block\report him.
Everyone that feels pro while playing hotjoin simply makes me laugh.

fugazi.5139:

Kolly.9872:

fugazi.5139:

Kolly.9872:

but what about if I am low rank but I can play better than many rank 60+? I am stuck with low rank scrubs? rank means anything nowadays.

That would make you a prodigy and you should be playing on one of these pro ‘e-sports’ teams…blowing us all away with your God giving gift of Epicnes. Who r u?

that’s exactly the reason why I play with rank 60+ in my team and they prefer me over all those 60+ skyhammer farmers
but on topic I realy don’t care about soloQ but I still don’t like to split soloQ in different tiers based on ranks because rank still means nothing at all.

First let’s reset all ranks and second give back proper rank to people based only on tournament experience, after that maybe we can start making tiers for soloQ

I agree to a point. I’m talking more on the lower rank. Like less than rank 20 or 15. Just enough time to get people fully rounded in some sense. Of course spliting the ranks in anything higher would just be a disaster.

Might I ask you, What rank are you?

rank 32, I think I have been in 10 hotjoin match since I started to play tho, I don’t want to be forced to play with other rank 30 that farmed their way to 30 doing hotjoin all the day long. But I would realy like if ranks would mean anything in this game, the only thing to do now is to reset ranks and re-assign ranks based on the real team\soloQ experience. I want to see a real rank 60+ and say “crap, this dude have realy spent his life doing pvp”, right now I laugh at many ranks 60+ instead.

fugazi.5139:

Kolly.9872:

but what about if I am low rank but I can play better than many rank 60+? I am stuck with low rank scrubs? rank means anything nowadays.

That would make you a prodigy and you should be playing on one of these pro ‘e-sports’ teams…blowing us all away with your God giving gift of Epicnes. Who r u?

that’s exactly the reason why I play with rank 60+ in my team and they prefer me over all those 60+ skyhammer farmers
but on topic I realy don’t care about soloQ but I still don’t like to split soloQ in different tiers based on ranks because rank still means nothing at all.

First let’s reset all ranks and second give back proper rank to people based only on tournament experience, after that maybe we can start making tiers for soloQ

but what about if I am low rank but I can play better than many rank 60+? I am stuck with low rank scrubs? rank means anything nowadays.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Explain me please 9k damage backstab from thief, when i was in tanky warrior build with ton of toughness

don’t give your back to the thief

Knote.2904:

Lighter.5631:

Knote.2904:

Lighter.5631:

so they spam cc on your stabilized character? what do they do? kitten damage
what you do? alot of damage
???
profit?

if not? you delete the game.

and an ele talking about spamming skills…what on the earth is that.

Judging by the grammar and bias, safe to say : Warrior Player.

sorry im now 3 signets thief.

Aw crud… I was close.

please don’t compare this 2 classes anymore. Warriors are much more spamming than Thieves and with good success. A thief mindless spamming is dead before even realizing it

Dee Jay.2460:

It’s the same with Thief Stealth attacks. If they hit Aegis or get dodged they don’t de-stealth the Thief.

Kind of makes skill slightly less important.

Something is not less broken just because there is another thing that is broken too.

Darnis.4056:

Warrior Warrior Warrior Warrior and Warrior

Spike Damage Spike Damage = All 5 Warriors dead

Shortbow 4 and you stayed inside the AoE for the full duration

infantrydiv.1620:

Siva Mira.3546:

First off all, there is no way you can get 5sec AoE chill by yourself. Venom doesn’t work that way. If your AoE hit 4 people then everyone of them will get 1.25sec chill and thats all you will get from a single use Ice Drake Venom.

Secondly, you have no initiative regen to pump out your Unload as much as you can.

Third, you can do very good damage IF no one dodge your obvious Unload attack animation.

Fourth, in a game like GW2 where jumping on someone and then burst him down is a simple task and you still think 2 dodges, 2 Stealths and one Shadowstep is enough to keep you last the fight then I have no idea what to say.

Lastly, 300 toughness is NOT going to touch the skin of what D/P offers in term of defensive and offensive.

You are right about the 5 second AoE chill. However, P/P with a venom proc halves a D/P thieves HP right off the bat. It also locks on even if the thief stealths. (It can probably do almost 10k in a mid fight if I’m being buffed by allies. You are also forgeting that Shortbow has a dodge on 3, shadowsteps on 5.

ok I aplogize for being such aggressive. I just wanted to say that for me this build doesn’t bring to the table any support that other classes at the moment can’t do better.
Also its survivability is underperforming since no stealth, no high hp, no high evasion and only 1 breakstun every 50secs. Also venoms requires too much coordination (not that this is a bad thing) for a coordinated long CC and burst, something that actually warriors and necro can do much better with less effort and even with more frequency.
Also in high end pvp matches I think SR is a must, if you know how to safe and use properluy this skill, it’s always a free ress for a team mate.
I was aggressive because even if I don’t consider the thief too bad, I think that there are still too many classes that are better than us in almost every role in a team, and arguing that venoms can be in some way viable while they are not (they also require to to fully trait for venoms for being viable a bit), it’s bad information, and we don’t need to give A-Net bad informations about thieves viability in tournament.

infantrydiv.1620:

This is a build I made today and started using in tournaments more successfully than any P/P build I’ve tried before.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cRRV;1Rwk0-Z57PFd0;9;4T9T;037B4;018B;4INV4;2KJG4KJG45BI

Leeching venoms adds over 2k damage onto your unload skill as well as a 2k heal (from spider venom, less from the other two).

Basically you buff your teammates giving them longlasting might stacks and venom procs while dealing large amounts of damage from range with unload for single targets and clusterbomb for team fights. Try to stay out of the middle of the fight except to share your venoms.

how many tPvP did you win with this crap?
or should I say, did you even find a team willing to play with you with that crap build?
sorry mate, I seriously like when people try to theorycrafting something unusual, but let’s not post everything that comes to mind

please rollback all the glory farmed by everyone in hotjoin, not only on skyhammer.
At least since the leaderboard started

EDIT: after that start rewarding glory based on tournaments wins and defeats only

Guardian dps or elementalist is the right choice

if you use both daze on steal and basilisk venom, the duration of basilisk venom is cancelled by the duration of daze. Basically the daze acts as an instant break stun for your enemy, I guess it’s a bug and I hope to see this fixed very soon

Siva Mira.3546:

I think Guardian and Warrior need Stealth too, just saying.

and thieves stability protection and retaliation… and since we are already there why not an heavy armor set?