Guild Wars 2

…was like DotA’s debuff Rupture.

Deals damage based on how far you walk while under it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Nm5pn4N4i3s#t=93s

Obviously it’s not going to happen (unless I’m psychic) but imagine how neat that would be within Guild Wars, especially on a necro? Could combo it with so much stuff, like fear, spectral grasp, or put down a bunch of wells and force them to either stand in the wells and take damage, or leave the wells and take damage. Even fits with the necro class description of being “difficult to disengage from”.

Anyone else got neat concept ideas for a new condition, horrendously OP or not?

This is actually a really good idea to me, PvP players should have a fighting chance in WvW because it’s also PvP, but they don’t because of the amount of gold you have to raise.

HOWEVER: The glory system needs an overhaul first. Game needs to reward winning with glory because getting glory and winning are not in cohesion right now; prime example is that you only need one person to cap a point but you have to be on that point the whole time to get the rank points/glory, resulting in a bunch of people sitting on the point. God forbid if they actually made glory USEFUL, all you’d see is people zerging about in a merry-go-round.

God yes. I wish.

I mean, I’d be happy if they just worked when you pressed the button, shorter cast times (3 seconds is rediculous, I’m all for something like that having a weakness but you can go overboard) and moving while casting is a pipe dream that would be amazing. I think it’d almost make the class OP though.

ddoi.9264:

When they designed the class traits back in release I don’t think they expected the meta to split so heavily into either power or condition for all the classes. Rather they probably assumed people would use a healthy mix of hybrid stats on their equipment and utility skills and built on that. Maybe they expected you to use power based weapons with condition damage coming from traps as a supplement than a main source of dps?
Take a look at the Orr temple karma armors for example. If you want a set of armor with the same six runes the stats are all over the place.
The problem is of course, the paltry amount of stats you get from mixing gear is often inferior to min maxing considering how dps/damage reduction/healing scales in this game.

Exactly. While “balanced” builds (IE temple stats, which is what gave me the same idea as you had there in the first place) kinda work, they’re just outshined by the hyper-specialised builds that have all their traits and stats working in sync so well that all your eggs in one basket just straight out beats being a jack of all trades. I personally would have advocated some kind of very slight “DR” on stats as you stack more of them (IE the more you stack of a single stat, the less you get per stat) so that hyper-specialist builds like HGH don’t just stomp on everything, but it’s too late now and the meta has developed around what we have. kitten shame, too.

All the hate is because people are convinced that “OMG DPS IS ALL THAT MATTERS” and refuse to look at the traits and build some kind of meaningful build, rather complain.

Can I ask, have you tried Clerics/Apoth regen/BM builds as well? I’m stuck choosing between the three stats, I’ve tried them all in PvP but it’s not quite the same and I can’t pick which is the best anyway, they all have their place.

Well you miss out on pretty much the kitten as far as it comes to build. Trait for traits, not for stats, stats are always secondary to important traits.

Also, carrion exists.

Spirit of renewal dies too quickly. You can kind of use it to self res but I find that it’s not worth the monumental cooldown, squishyness, and short duration. I’ve never seen it last longer than 15-20 seconds in a real fight.

Rampage as one is okay I guess, but it has a long cooldown for that mere 20 seconds of stability (and a bit of might, which goes well with the high cond damage, but as far as might stacking goes it’s a really inefficient method).

I generally find entangle the best because it scales with your own condition damage. The thing about entangle is that you have to use it as a good time. Can’t just run up to a bunch of people and entangle, because there are a million different ways to counter it – condition removal, blinding you, etc. I cringe every time I blow entangle while blinded. Best practice is to hold people in place with spike trap first (to prevent someone dodging it), and to use it at a time when most of their condition removal is blown. A warrior, for example, can easily escape it with the use of Mobile Strikes, so it’s best to use it right after they bulls charge or savage leap or whatever they’re running. If you can, use it when damaging attacks like Whirling Wrath are down too. It’s best not used as initiation because of how easy it is to counter for these reasons, I like to save it until the fight is midway, because if you entangle a group of people and then chuck down traps on top of that it can be a fight turner.

Also, wait until the class you’re fighting uses any kind of adds, because the adds don’t move out of it and they’ll eventually die. Good counter to Thieves Guild, for example.

Take Root is another option if you really hate entangle, it’s probably the best racial I can think of outside of Pain Inverter, strong counter to burst, and all the little plants apply bleeds – not sure if those bleeds scale with condition damage or not though, couldn’t tell you.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

-snip-

Where did I imply that everything needs to be overpowered instead of just equally useful? Why are you implying this is impossible? I played SC: Brood War for three years and I can’t say that during any point outside of just after release was any race overpowered in the slightest nor any unit beside Scout useless (Besides maybe Protoss at low levels, but hey, we’re struggling to meet balance at one gameplay level here, thieves are always going to kitten on everyone at low skill levels and we can’t stop that).

Going back to the FPS analogy you had before, if we had a sniper that one-shots people at range, an AR that also one-shots people at range but is automatic, and an SMG that has kitten range and takes something like 10 shots to kill, then it’s pretty kittening clear what everyone’s going to be using. You’re implying that everything has to be taken to the AR level of power or something, why not make the AR three shots and buff the SMG instead? Equal power, equal usability, all would have their own “niche”. Otherwise you’ve got kitten just sitting in the files wasting space.

In GW2’s case, there’s weapons/builds that are blatantly unused because they’re just out-shined by something else or just don’t do something as well as another weapon. Why would you NOT buff them to even attempt to make something useful in the long run?

I never said that every skill should do the same thing either, I suggested that unused things aren’t getting used for a reason. They just don’t sync with a build as well as say HGH does. I’m NOT suggesting that you should just make everything operate the same, in fact I think some weapons should be seperated to have their own niche or their own relative builds. Damage buff on mace would be stupid, for example, because then you’d just have warrior axe but now axe is redundant because mace now has weakness and stuns.

Why are you also implying that some state of balance is impossible? I mentioned starcraft before, another game I generally regard as pretty balanced is Dota, I play in the Very High bracket for 50% of matches and the only hero that I see getting consistently picked most All Pick games is Nyx. Out of 100 heroes. Every other hero has some kind of place in a lineup, even the “pubstompers” like Ursa get picked in high too. If you look at competitive tiers: http://d2htl.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/hero-tier-list-march-2013/ the difference between the “High” picks and the rest is kittening nothing, just trying to lever a slight advantage. Most of the case of things being High picks/bans is down to trend, like Dark Seer got no nerfs and buffs and went from an unknown hero to a top consistent pick because VP or someone won a tournament using him consistently, and Wisp while a first ban/pick in the Western scene is occasional at most in China. Heroes even get banned because of the enemy team, Lone Druid is a common respect ban against NTH because of a player called Admiral Bulldog who plays NOTHING but Lone Druid in pubs, pudge gets banned once in a blue moon against Dendi, AM against BurninG, etc. I’m trying to tell you this because balance IS possible to get near to. Perfect balance is of course impossible, even chess has a black bias, but you can get pretty kittening close. You’re saying we shouldn’t even try, we should leave all these traits, builds, weapons and runes that nobody in their right mind uses because of the risk it might make something op? Diddums, nerf it if that happens. Some things are better picks in dota, granted, but the difference between dota and this game is that we’re not talking a balance so close that a 4 damage nerf takes a hero from top pick to unseen (I’m not even joking, this happened to invoker), we’re talking 1-2 hyper-specialised builds per class across 7 classes (because one is kittene) and anything else and you’re just not staying competitive because no traits mesh together as well as hgh engi’s or trap ranger’s do.

“Buffing” something does not mean making it OP, provided it’s balanced correctly. I don’t know why you think that son. If the designers are smart like beaver, it doesn’t mean that in the slightest.

EDIT: And when I say this, I DON’T mean things like buffing guardian scepter to be as good as other ranged weapons, for example. Every class needs to have their strength and weakness. That’s balance. Every class being clones of another is also balance, but it’s also kittening boring.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

If everything is the same, someone will find a combination that is most optimal. Then you would want a buff to underused items.

What fails in all of your arguments is that there will always be one thing that is the best. When have you ever seen something in which options were balanced. So power creep is not a result of over buffing initially. It is a result of the optimal spec out performing the rest.

Have you never seen a game in a state of balance or near balance before or something? Are you suggesting we should leave these unused things unused and not even bother buffing them because they “might get too OP”? Not even giving them a niche, like this boon removal crap anet are doing with thief sword?

Maybe we should just nerf warriors some more, so they don’t become too OP. I mean they’re underused, it’s only natural that someone finds another class is more optimal.

What WvW are you playing where ranged actually matters on a guardian or warrior? In this version of WvW do zergs charge at each other then stop 20 feet away and take potshots until everyone falls over, like it’s the Crimean war or something? Defending towers, you say? Should every class really be good at everything? Guardians are already borderline vital for the retal they can pump out, wall of reflection, stability, protection, light fields, the works.

Just playing devils advocate here. if we buff everything we don’t like about our specific class they become a god. You have to look at balance within the context of all classes, instead of looking at something being nerfed or bad as a personal insult.

The spectator mode actually looks really polished. Good stuff anet.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

So you buff something, and then something else becomes unused. Then you buff that original thing, so on and so forth. Then you have power creep and everything is over the top.

Or you could make it equally as viable instead of overpowered, hence no power creep.

Ever played Starcraft: BW? The only unit I could ever describe as unused/useless is the Scout. Everything other unit had a place and there were several builds available because Blizzard actually balanced their game.

Can you please stop saying “boon bot” before I lose the rest of my brain cells? This isn’t WoW, or Swtor, or whatever MMO you said you play and get all this rediculous terminology from. Everything you’ve said is just… wrong. Guardian is NOT required to play as some kind of buff giver – I mean you can, but you’re rediculous suggesting that they’re required to play in this slot and given the relatively small amount of buffs a guardian can give out I’d find a guardian purely dedicated to giving buffs to be a bit useless. There’s what, empower, retal, 3 seconds of protection, and stability every 40 seconds? What the kitten ever gave you that idea?

Also I had to rub my eyes when you honestly suggested that a guardian is more squishy than a warrior. Have you never seen a bunker guardian, IE potentially the most unkillable kittens in the game without relying on a get out of jail free RTL? Have you actually played the game for long enough to realize that pure EHP does not a tank make? I’d almost call this a troll/bait if I hadn’t seen this kind of brainless tripe in-game.

TL;DR: boon bot yourself in a corner m8

What’s the song in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZH42X_doMc and do you have some kind of playlist? I like it alllll.

Also best build, I’ve been running a similar thing with clerics, you’re basically an unkillable machine. I’ll have to try apothecary if I can get enough laurels.

BLU.8961:

Edit: Caed has graciously donated an account that I may use for casting on NA, so I am available in both regions now!

Caed is the kittening man!

I wish you good luck. Keen to see if custom servers, spectator, the works will kickstart tpvp again.

I heard that CC diminishes in returns if you dodge or use stunbreaks by a huge factor of 100%

Use your laurels to buy unid dyes or T6 mat bags, open them, and sell the results.

“I feel like rubbing some salt in the wounds. That’ll teach you to pick Ranger!”

~ Jon Peters, Anet Game Designer, 2013.

Traps, traited. Three of them. Put them down, watch people melt.

Wolf howl, if you can get it to work.

Counterattack is pretty good.

Swoop is two combo finishers so you can heal for 3k through a healing spring.

Entangle is not OP but really really good if you use it at a good time – which can be difficult to gather

Speaking of which, Healing Spring and Troll Unguent.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Flesh Golem, Flesh Wurm, and Shadow Fiend are the hardest hitting/most annoying.

Alright. I’ve always tried to focus the golem first because the knockdown is a royal pain and it hits hard, but it’s just so bulky. Thanks for the clarification on the others though.

Yeah.

15 characters.

This thread is a mess. OP is probably talking about warriors in the context of PvP and then some guy comes in with PvE analogies and then another with WvW zerging, someone else with WvW roaming, and then we’re back to PvP again.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Phantasmal Mesmers have to wait on a 16+ second cooldown for each of their Phantasms. They are also very fragile.

Treat a Phantasmal Mesmer like a Minionmancer, kill the hard hitting Minions, THEN focus on the Mesmer. Granted the Phantasmal Duelist is a little bit on the strong side for being so hard to dodge, but there are ways around it. Most good players know the ways around it.

Irrelevant to the original topic, but what are the “hard hitting” minions you’re talking about for a minionmancer?

I have one issue with ranger. No, I don’t care about their low dps, they make up for that in other ways. No, I don’t care about sword “root” because if you understand the weapon and turn off autoattack it actually has huge potential. No, I don’t care about spirits being kitten, make up for it by not using spirits. But I am on the edge of changing class from my favourite class because of one simple issue: Pet skills on F2’s unresponsiveness. It’s infuriating. If I press the F2 skill while in combat, I would like the pet to stop what it is doing and howl. I don’t want them to leap first. I don’t want them to walk around in circles first. I want the dog, to howl. It’s that simple. And it’s often very important that in that moment the pet howls, as I’m often taking advantage of that howl to say, push people off a point or interrupt someone stomping a friend. Yet I’m reliant on pure luck that the pet won’t flip their kitten and harass a nearby butterfly instead of using the pet skill that I’m really banking on them running.

So I ask you, is there ANYTHING I can do to increase the chance that the Wolf will, when commanded, use it’s howl skill on the F2 button? Is there any way to make it interrupt the current attack (most commonly the pounce attack) in order to command a howl? I’ve tried everything. Mashing the button doesn’t work because it interrupts the last attempt. Pressing attack and using it seems to make them go to the enemy before using it. Pressing return to me before using it seems to not do anything either. Swapping into the wolf and using the pet skill seems to give a 50/50 chance of the pet giving a kitten that I’ve just told it to howl. Worst part is that F1 and F3 skills work whenever I need them to.

I’m ripping my hair out here guys. It’s extremely kittening frustrating.

Quakeman.9378:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTzyn6CGHw

For those of you who say that kill shot maxes out at 12k watch this mayhem. I laugh every time.

Wow look it’s a youtube compilation of a series of people who seem to have removed their “dodge” key from their keyboard being shot by an extremely edgy and disproportionate norn. Neat, made my day.

EDIT: Also AC/DC without bon scott, shiggy

You can’t look at other classes and say “they have it so why don’t I!”, that’s not how balancing works and it’s almost the exact opposite tbh because otherwise you’d have 8 extremely androgynous classes with no variation in the slighest.

Shortbow is good. I have no idea where you got this concept of it needing buffs from.

Exarthious.5792:

DPS tests against an opponent that never moves are pointless.

I think this is more pve because you’re completely right. But rangers need everything they can to stay compeditive in PvE and finding out the best damage rotation is a good start.

Just bend over so you get to respawn quicker.

I don’t get the point of hide in plain sight. It’s removed when you move and applied when you’re stunned… so there’s logically only one place you can be. Am I missing something here?

Jabronee.9465:

Due to the word —--> Ranger?
Masters of Long Range Combat?

Its a typo dude. It should be called Beastmaster!

Except that’s not what it means in the slighest. Common misconception.

Ranger=/= ranged combat, even though it shares the letters. Ranger means ranging the land, etc.

Example: Aragorn is a ranger of numenor. He does not specialize in ranged combat because he is a ranger, he is a ranger because he ranges.

Legolas on the other hand, may or may not be a ranger, but it is not because he specializes in ranged combat.

Quarktastic.1027:

Writetyper.1985:

Empathic bond is bugged (since launch) and the conditions are just removed, they’re not transferred to your pet at all.

Not anymore. It was nerfed fixed in a recent update. Your pet now takes 3 conditions from you every 10 seconds.

Well that’s news to me and it certainly changes things. I did feel like my pet was dying a bit quicker recently, that must be it.

Frankly I hate how all our condition removal besides healing spring is at the expense of the pet.

For pure, maximum PvE DPS would 2 GS auto hits>maul>2 GS auto hits>swoop>2 gs auto hits>maul repeat not be way better than letting the full chain hit?

Also, would that be possible?

Yes, the Molten Alliance storyline is cool and all,

Hahah, oh wow

PvE isn’t compeditive in the slightest, it’s not even difficult, so what you’d be doing is mashing as much damage and luck into a run as possible to find some kind of compeditive touch in a gamemode that is (At least in this game) all about co-operation. A bit rediculous.

All the competitive pve content has already been done (World first lupi solo, fastest lupi time) and doesn’t really involve something you can quantify.

If they introduce new content which is actually – difficult – then maybe. There was highest fractal level but they decided to stop that by killing the revive bug at maw because muh ascended.

No because I often can’t be bothered, I just play the game and sometimes I’ll get it done incidentally, others there will be one or two left and I’ll have to go gathering or crafting or something like that.

I can understand doing them aggressively for the rewards but if you do something you don’t have to do and then complain about it you’re a burk.

Ryan.8367:

“But empathic bond is pretty good, so there is that.”

Not really, if you’re BM it may be alright because your pet can take the 3 condi you dumb onto it. But that’s all it is though,remember you’re still giving condi to your other half essentially. To me that in no way classifies as complete condition removal like other classes get and I will always argue this. but to each his own.

Empathic bond is bugged (since launch) and the conditions are just removed, they’re not transferred to your pet at all.

Super swell post son, I’ll be sure to bookmark and redirect anyone requiring the guidance towards it.

Also,

To quote a decently fun fps dressed up with an MMO loot system. You. Will. Die. You are going to lose.

Which one?

jportell.2197:

Writetyper.1985:

Make it scale off either precision or critical damage instead. You should do glass damage if you’re glass, yet a bunker using p/v/t or clerics amulet can do ~250 every time he’s hit because it scales off power and pvt is major power, the same as some total glass cannon is doing and there’s very little that the attacker can do about it.

Off clerics? Wut no? Absolutely not… The only way retal can do that much damage if it is AOE retal against someone spamming AOE damage…

Uh my bad, I could have sworn clerics was major Power. The point still stands, with any amount of power you’re doing a lot of damage every time you’re hit, it allows bunkers to kill people without actually being offensive in any way because their opponents simply don’t have the health to keep up. The amount of base damage it does is not to scoff at too, it’s something like 135 a hit.

Make it scale off either precision or critical damage instead. You should do glass damage if you’re glass, yet a bunker using p/v/t or clerics amulet can do ~250 every time he’s hit because it scales off power and pvt is major power, the same as some total glass cannon is doing and there’s very little that the attacker can do about it.

All hail Jon Peters, gleaming beacon of passion, pillar of the community, harbinger of glorious Signet dominance

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Immobilize is a condition, bring more condition removal….problem solved >.>

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilize

Top right corner

Effect type
Condition
Stacking
Duration

All hail Nay of the Ether, high overlord of the bleeding obvious.

Durzlla.6295:

Quarktastic.1027:

Durzlla.6295:

Yes, and all of those are more than a simple sword swing, which is why I said maul -should- be 5 targets if its not. All our other attacks on GS wouldn’t follow the same rules the other profs go by.

That’s also what I said. I never said we should get a 5 target auto attack, just maul, and perhaps swoop.

Swoop seemed more like a melee cleave to me, and if maul became a blast finisher I’d forgive them for the lack of 5 targets xD.

Oh god that would be beautiful. It wouldn’t make sense in the slightest but kitten would that be so good. Ranger obviously lacks blast finishers, I’m not sure if this was an intentional design choice but if it wasn’t then this should happen

Not a bad idea, not really OP either. I’m all for it.

I feel like half the time when I use a pet skill it doesn’t go off. This is particularly pertinent to wolf pet, it’s really important to get that fear off when I use it because I’m often using it to interrupt. It’s bad enough that pet skills almost always have 2-3 second cast times. Mashing the button doesn’t work either because the pet would rather use some kind of long-windup skill on a nearby butterfly.

I would absolutely prefer that the pet’s passive skills be interrupted for the active skill, hell I wouldn’t even mind the passive skill in question going on cooldown in exchange for reliability on the active. All I want is that when I press that pet skill button, the pet skill goes off. It’s that simple.

On top of this, semi-relevant, why can’t I see pet boons and buffs? Blind being the important one here, I’ve wasted many an important skill to wonder why it didn’t work, summarizing that it must be blind. If I could see that blind above the pet’s bar then I could run some kind of condition removal or wait before using important pet skills.

Quarktastic.1027:

Durzlla.6295:

Writetyper.1985:

Warrior’s GS cleave only hits 3 targets, I’m 99% sure of this. I was under the impression that all melee cleave (besides third hit on warrior hammer because it’s “aoe”) is 3 targets but I cannot confirm or deny Guardian.

Guardians is only 3 as well, I think the Symbol it makes (is that during attack chain?) is in the same boat as Warrior Hammer.

Here’s a list of guardian greatsword attacks that hit 5 targets.

-Whirling Wrath
-Leap of Faith
-Symbol of Wrath
-Binding Blade

That’s 4/5 skills which hit 5 targets.

…And everything there is an aoe. Not melee cleave. Your point?

I run this build pretty much so I can give you the weaknesses:

-Squishy. To get the “most” out of a traps build you need to run Rabid (or maybe carrion) which leaves you with one defensive stat. Consistent burst can quickly take you down, a long protracted fight is much easier to win because I just regen it all back and can outheal most “low” dps attacks. The problem here is probably “tanky” necromancer, you’re there to tank and outlast your opponents, there’s no way you can really do quick burst. Another thing is conditions – rangers don’t have that much “reliable” condition removal – signet of renewal requires the pet to be alive, and essentially kills the pet, and empathic bond, while really good, is on a long cooldown and doesn’t protect from condition spam – it only removes three. Rabid, which is what I run, doesn’t protect from conditions very well (toughness) so if you were able to layer on massive amounts of conditions a trap ranger would go down quickly. Also vulnerable to plague signet, because of the amount of conditions a ranger can put on you.

-Mobility. Strangely enough, guardians are arguably the easiest class to kill as a trap ranger because they just don’t have the mobility to get out of traps consistently, especially if it’s tpvp and they’re trying to bunker a point. I understand Necromancer is not good in this respect but you probably want to save Dark Path for if you get imobilized by a trap.

-Adds. Mesmers and minion master necros, strangely enough, are arguably the hardest class to deal with as a trap ranger even due to the level of AoE. Clones, phantasms and minions all proc traps, essentially “wasting” them because the real target isn’t taking damage. I know whenever I see another trap ranger the best strategy is to send my pet at them first because it will proc all the traps and then I’ll just waltz on up and put my own down.

-Lockdowns. A trap ranger will often sacrifice stability and stunbreaks for more damage. Getting chain lockdowned really hurts, your survivability while using sword or gs comes quite a lot from evades and blocks, and you can’t use these while stunned. Regen doesn’t protect against getting bursted down while stunned.

-Don’t turn your back. Ranger shortbow only bleeds from behind or the side. Without this the only damage you can do outside of ~200 damage autos (retal outdamages it) is an on-crit chance for a 1 second bleed for a whopping 120 damage and a sigil of earth proc which can only proc every 2 seconds. It’s often extremely frustrating when all traps are on CD and I switch to shortbow to chase something down, and he just turns around and attacks and outdamages me and I can’t find a window to get to the side.

-Kite the pet. Seriously just keep moving, the pet is a BIG chunk of damage/utility, especially if it’s a bird – those things won’t hit you at all if you keep moving.

-Poison. Poison reduces the effectiveness of healing skills and regen by 33%. If you can’t interrupt the troll unguent animation then your best bet is to put on poison repeatedly and hope empathic bond doesn’t remove it.

Warrior’s GS cleave only hits 3 targets, I’m 99% sure of this. I was under the impression that all melee cleave (besides third hit on warrior hammer because it’s “aoe”) is 3 targets but I cannot confirm or deny Guardian.

Brigg.6189:

why use a warrior here and not a ranger?

Because warriors can trait for 100% combo finisher on longbow auto, which is two shots, hence the confusion through spectral wall.

As far as I know, rangers can’t.

Feels bad to be on the opposite side of this too. I have no idea why I’m being matched against a stack with several top ten ranked players on it. Oh well.

A spike trap is too much. Trap ranger is already really really strong in PvP. At most a small trap that applies 1-2 bleeds or small muddy ground. But, what really should happen is what Ryu said:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Personally I’d prefer something where you end up throwing up dirt while dodging and give any enemies nearby blindness.

at least partially because that would be so kitten cool.