Guild Wars 2

Deus Fatorum.2473:

kdaddy.5431:

Deus Fatorum.2473:

Right now I feel it offers too much sustain for the damage output on classes like druid.

Why not swap the precision and healing stat.

so instead of

1050 power
1050 healing
560 precision
560 vitality

go

1050 power
1050 precision
560 healing
560 vitality

This way you still get some healing, but will be more killable.

I dont understand why menders is a problem though. A druid after the nerfs will even out a fight in 1 vs 1 but it has to trait to win a fight and might not use menders. For instance the ancient seeds trait line if you want it to win 1 vs 1.

Also druid isnt a auto win 1 vs 1 class anymore, im not normally the persona to argue for the HOT specs but people get killed so fast by any sort of 2 vs 1 unless the 2 are not up to par.

We are at a point where this amulet is the only support amulet in the game. It helps ele and druid players support other classes as well as old shout guardians. I wouldnt want to see support be straight taken from the game.

If you want to see every class run shield, trait for invulnerable, etc etc etc even more then it is. Go ahead and kill the amulet.

The idea was not to kill the amulet or nerf druid, but to stray away from bunker’s. Heck that is why cleric got removed. At the same time having healimg power as a stat on a pvp amu is incredibly helpful for eles, druids, etc.

The idea here is to make menders more damage oriented while still providing some healing. I think it would prob buff mender’s honestly as more classes could use it without a major damage loss.

I understand that, the problem is the class is no longer a huge meta class after the recent patch.

Also every class is using a offensive amulet other then druids and eles. We no longer have bunkers in this game.

Its a big reason build diversity is not here anymore. If you want to run a team comp it has to be 3-4 players running power/x/x build. With that it means you are gonna take the most defensive utility skills.

Its why you see eles using all shouts. It needs the regen,vigor and protection. Without it ele dies very quickly. Even druid is using some sort of double shout for protection for double glyph for team heals and condi cleanses.

You wrote “The idea was not to kill the amulet or nerf druid, but to stray away from bunker’s” which is not how it works. If every class is offensive then the classes with the best stun-breakers-access to boons- and highest level of dps and invulnerables will win.

You are literally trying to change 2 classes because you are upset with the amulet. 1 class is near dependent on it for high level play. I think it would be better if you asked Anet to actually re-balance the classes so we have have actual amulets.

Anyways ill just list amulets that i personally never used assassins- barbarian- cavalier- diviners- knights- magi- seekers- sinisters- Valkyrie.

These are 9 out of 21 amulets that ive have never used on a build and thought they were good. Then you bring in the fact that so many are so similar like beserker,marauder, demolisher and destoryers amulet. So with the addition of these 4 amulet which are so similar you have 9 amulets not in use and 4 if i picked blindly it wouldnt make a huge difference in my match.

That isnt good for amulet diversity so i dont understand how the changes you are suggesting makes the 2 classes any better or gives amulets better diversity.

Vavume.8065:

Something that has 100% chance of Magumma Liliys, preferably at least 3 per track.

Dont ask for anything, PvE players dont want you to have anything. If you want lilys you must spend hours in the HOT maps.

Yet you can get the armor/weapons/ other rewards from the mordre moth cache reward track, ohhh crap dont let them know. They will ask for it to get removed!!!!!!!!!!!

Oriori is about to reply to me that if i want the leystone armor i should farm the DS meta event because its for Pve players!!!!!!!!!

No you dont, have you seen PvP daily rooms?

You dont play PvP and you will receive your 4 potions, also why do you think they extended the maps?

For those who want the AP but dont want to take more then 2-3 matches a day to do it.

Most of us got all the ap for it in less then 2 weeks.

Which once again means that no they are not really playing PvP, simply making a slow grind towards something and im asking for the same thing. How about this for the next patch, Anet gets rid of the timers on all the bosses for raids? Same thing

Lastly its all relevant, GW2 has done nothing for the PvP and WvW scene. Yes this is a PvE game but they made PvP part of it with the huge patch. In that patch Anet made everything easier for casual PvE players to get some of the AP. Once again Anet caves to the casuals of PvE on PvP maps.

Here you have new content for PvE with HOT farming zerg maps and raids. Yet if you only PvP or WvW you will not receive anything. Anet came out with PvE legendary back pcs in fractals. Anet also made it easy to get the legendary back pc for PvP. Most of us had 1/2 threw season 2.

How is this relevant? Raids take 10 people to do them, from my casual PvP stand point. I dont have time to be looking for people to raid. (this is me crying, like all the examples i gave above) You say its because you should have to raid to get these rewards. Well guess what i and many others have said you should have to be decent to get the PvP rewards which hasnt happened. Many people have streamed games where someone sat home and were in legendary. If you want legit rewards for certain things then actually make the areas of the game legit.

I would like raid rewards tracks, Anet caters to the PvE player so why shouldnt PvP players get the same things or WvW players?

OriOri.8724:

kdaddy.5431:

I make a thread like this every couple months so thank you for beating me to it.

I would like a raid reward track, we have 3 raid wings and a raid reward track could earn you rewards from that raid wing. For instance the Guild Hall trophys for vale,gors,sab.

I have a scribe of like 288 and guild mate has 400 level scribing so it would be nice to make all the trophys since we are a smaller guild.

I would also like a consume all button for the tomes i have collected. I will not double click 2k+ tomes, these would be 2 features i would like to see added.

You want raid rewards without doing raids? If you want those trophys then put in the work to kill the raid bosses, they shouldn’t just be handed to you because you don’t like to PvE

Right like Anet making getting to level easier for Pve players in PvP? Like when i had to get 200,000 glory to level and then Anet made it 20,000. There had to of been at least 15+ players in the level 70+. Thousands upon thousands of game played and Anet said what ever everyone is level 80 now. How can you even compare the amount of time/game played to raid kills. Talking about “they shouldn’t just be handed to you because you don’t like to PvE”.

How about the people who didnt finish coliseum or capricorn? They cried hard enough to make them permanent.

I was all for people yelling at Anet for releasing a new map during the PvP season but Anet caves all the time to casual PvE players.

I also thought hot join should be ridden of and many people said hey dont ruin it for casuals. I actually just wanted it made simply, no PvP dailys can be done in hot join.

Ive done W1 of raids and to be honest i dont like looking for a new puig group every week to get me kills. Why shouldnt i be able to get the trophys?

Name 1 decent reason, its not like Anet got rid of leader boards MMR based and gave it to farmers. Or made league a joke, so why is it that Leagues can be made for PvE players who were able to grind legendary wings and i simply cant have trophys?

I dont want the dumb skins, i dont want the minis or kill proof or Legendary insights. I just want to get trophys in a area of the game i still want to play.

Please give 1 real reason WvW and PvP shouldnt get these reward tracks when Anet does everything possible to make WvW and PvP easier for the casual PvE players.

Pache.9406:

There should be more added features, like GW1 effects (or better), for a longer period of time, dependent on how much you drink.

+1

Alot of GW1 stuff was really cool like /drums /guitar and a handful of other things.

Any year not we might get some stuff but probably more minis and wardrobe clothing you can buy for the low low price of $19.99

Deus Fatorum.2473:

Right now I feel it offers too much sustain for the damage output on classes like druid.

Why not swap the precision and healing stat.

so instead of

1050 power
1050 healing
560 precision
560 vitality

go

1050 power
1050 precision
560 healing
560 vitality

This way you still get some healing, but will be more killable.

I dont understand why menders is a problem though. A druid after the nerfs will even out a fight in 1 vs 1 but it has to trait to win a fight and might not use menders. For instance the ancient seeds trait line if you want it to win 1 vs 1.

Also druid isnt a auto win 1 vs 1 class anymore, im not normally the persona to argue for the HOT specs but people get killed so fast by any sort of 2 vs 1 unless the 2 are not up to par.

We are at a point where this amulet is the only support amulet in the game. It helps ele and druid players support other classes as well as old shout guardians. I wouldnt want to see support be straight taken from the game.

If you want to see every class run shield, trait for invulnerable, etc etc etc even more then it is. Go ahead and kill the amulet.

I make a thread like this every couple months so thank you for beating me to it.

I would like a raid reward track, we have 3 raid wings and a raid reward track could earn you rewards from that raid wing. For instance the Guild Hall trophys for vale,gors,sab.

I have a scribe of like 288 and guild mate has 400 level scribing so it would be nice to make all the trophys since we are a smaller guild.

I would also like a consume all button for the tomes i have collected. I will not double click 2k+ tomes, these would be 2 features i would like to see added.

Honest answer,

In PvE you can run almost anything. Some builds are better for speed runs for dungeons or fractals. Some are better for support which makes it easier to carry. There is no real way to do Pve wrong other then throwing stuff on and traits and just expecting it to work. If you take time on what you want you can make any PvE build effective.

For raids, you need to run the meta unless you get your own static group or raid guild with many members capable of doing them. The last patch has killed some diversity and as someone who pugged all his raid kills ive been unable to find a good pug group of recent. Now i dont raid often so dont take my comment as something the community struggles with or you yourself will struggle with if you go into raiding.

Simply put if you go into raids who have to find something your class can be good at, get elite gear, learn the mechanics of the bosses and find a group of people willing to work with you. For instance in the raid/dungeons/forum a new guild training group started and they got over 30+ members very quickly. People want to raid but it can be very hard to get into.

As for PvP once again in unranked you might be able to get away with alot of things. With match making the way it is and the burst meta currently going on you can run alot of different things in solo unranked que.

If you want to play seriously/competitive you will need to play a certain build at a certain level to compete with the better players in the game. At high level PvP in structured teams classes only have 1 real option for play.

Wit that being said ranked que will be changing as well as the team format. PvP is at a odd cross road where no one is really sure the direction Anet will take it. Its not meant for teams anymore it would seem but the question will become whether or not its skill based or grind based.

In either situation if you can get good at the meta build of it you can do some real things but if you are looking to have fun, you can run any type of build in unranked and do well.

Octaslash.9437:

sephiroth.4217:

ResJudicator.7916:

sephiroth.4217:

Nearly 1 million damage in the first photo… A lot more than those “OP DPS BUILDS”… pretty good for “support only” no?

Second Photo has me at 37k damage received using a staff. (due to evades and dodging instead of tank n spank playstyle)

3rd photo is a hybrid build.

4th photo is marauder staff arcane mixture. 1v1 a thief for that point too.

5th photo is a 5 man ele team I was in for a few games, as you can see I’m clearly not the best Ele. That should be a testament to what people can achieve, I could probably do better myself if my fingers didn’t have arthritis or if I had a pc that didn’t sit at an avg ping of 300 with fps of 17-22.

I could post heaps of these builds/photos because I print screen every match stats to cross compare the stats between builds. Back to the point, it’s easier to spam aura menders heals than it is to actually play any other build. Don’t give the “team and TS” argument either because when I’m on TS or playing with a team I’m running a Paladin Ele simply because there is already a Mender Druid. What I bring as an Ele is mass condition removal, I let the real healers like Druid do the healing while I mass cleanse condi and apply hard and soft CC to a target. We fill in each others weak spots so to speak. Also playing with a Rev on our team, my mass condi removal is very much needed. (not pro teams, I just fill in for guild teams here and there)

There’s build diversity if players can handle high risk builds. Learning those builds takes patience and practice, you will wipe lots of times trying to learn them but the pay off is worth it. (its also the closest feeling you’ll get to the original pvp before HoT where timing and watching enemy skills actually mattered, before the HoT spray n pray builds)

Don’t mean to knock your builds (more power to you), but post-match damage stats is not the sign of a high-damage build. In fact, it can mean the opposite. Here’s an illustrative example:

If you instagib a rev with a perfectly timed burst 5 times in a row, your damage stat will be about 100k.

On the other hand, if you spend 10 minutes fighting a rev on point without killing him because he keeps healing up in between your burst attempts, your damage stat will be like 500k+.

The more effective build/player ends up with a much lower damage stat at the end of the match.

Yea I’m aware of this factor, I use the stats, timer and total damage and reflect on the match to see what it is I’m looking to boost. That first match with a Million damage it was a full length match which rarely happens for my games, I was mostly trying to tell someone that build diversity exists across a wide range of builds. I got plenty of those lower stat ones but they only happen in ranked/team play and not solo/duo pubstomps. Either way I’m having fun on lots of builds, shame to see other gamers feel they are restricted to what esl players play.

Like someone else said though that makes a lot more sense: People are comparing ESL guild team builds as no diversity to that of solo q. My perspective is purely playing solo/duo and with guild teams, not pros.

You post pictures, yet I see no one in the enemy team that is a highly skilled player. In higher elo, your build would have been pretty useless. Unranked matches are matches where people tend to troll with builds, who’s to say that the opponents were running meta builds?

Good thieves would pretty much instagib you, revenants would apply pressure, so that your staff dps will be useless. A rev pressuring you means that you can’t kill kitten, because staff inherently, is a bad 1v1 tool, which means that you wouldn’t be able to kill rev’s 1v1 with it. You could perhaps hold him, but what’s the point of that build then, when its purpose is to dps? All those pictures show me is, that you haven’t been pressured at all.

this is what i was saying but i think you made a clearer point

Im just trying to make some suggestions fishball and some others have made some points that i can agree with so i can understand.

I just want to point out to Killthehealersffs.8940 that i knew 3-4 people in there level 60’s.

I was also around level 53-54 at the time and i faced players in team que with ranks 71-73, I had a old screen print of it in my old guild page. So even if people were farming it in hot join maybe Anet should of actually fixed the issue instead of completely destroying the PvP system. After my friends ( 2 guild mates ) got there 10k wins, they really dont log into the game any more.

Also i just want people to actually earn the rewards. PvP was given its own currency with shards of glory, new reward tracks and really its all nothing since you can PvP potion your way threw it.

Truly i just want people to get there just do. You hear it in all the forums. Raiders want there own exclusive rewards, PvP wanted leagues to do that, WvW is still waiting. Think about PvP last few things such and the ranking system and the grind boards. This wasnt for PvP players, this was for farmers. Im sorry i could only play 200-300 games while the top leader board players where playing 1,500-2,000.

Anet to me needs to look into this. IMO bring back 8 vs 8 for fun server fights or fix it.

Give PvP and WvW there own rewards that you get for actually playing it, then better rewards for playing it well.

PvP was unique to the PvP players with tickets for tournaments, rabbit/deer/tiger/ etc etc to craft in the MF. Im just waiting for a piece of the pie Anet took away. Including Anet fixing build diversity among other things that they broke with HOT.

Is it wrong to go back to basics?

No im basing the things off of who i had to play in the Seasons.

In season 1 when i was in diamond i had to face team PZ 4 games in a row, 1 game off and then face them again. 4 out of the 5 members. I then spent most of the season either facing OE,zoose and five gauge.

In season 2 i went straight to legendary with only about 10 losses from Amber to legendary.

In season 3 i spent alot of time seeing many ESL players. I actually took screen shots because in a 3 day span i say tarcis, trackstar and kaypud in almost every match on the other team.

These are the players i had to play against and no the builds dont work. I can do the exact same thing SEPHIROTH is doing.

Look at my screen shot of playing something not good and winning, wow this must mean its viable and we have good build diversity?

Look another screen shot of me and 2 guild mates running meta builds destroying another team when THEY DONT EVEN PVP.

Yes please lets all use screen shots to make our points and use fake numbers as well.

Im fine with people saying they had fun using X build and they got into legendary. Thats great good for you, im fine with a dev saying that he used a power necro to get to legendary. Good for him, he could be great for all i know.

But when we have a MM system that allows bad players to get to legendary and players with low MMR to get there. That means the ranking system is garbage.

If im having to face ESL level players i want to be able to run multiple builds per class.

You posting pics of you doing decent damage in UNRANKED against nobodys means absouletly jack when it comes to build diversity.

If i have to log in and face players 10X better then you or vice versa and are forced into certain builds there is a problem.

Quit using unranked and ohhh i play for fun out of it. This is a thread about build diversity and not only for you against unranked players but for everyone in the game.
Not just low skilled or average skill or slightly above average to the best players in the game but for everyone.

Seriously unranked games? I might as well join a HOT JOIN map and farm new players and come back with look 38 kills and 10 million damage. I ventari/dwarf rev build is so good. ( sarcasm, please this last sentence is sarcasm. Dont try to make a dps ventari/dwarf rev)

Lymphy.1276:

kdaddy.5431:

LOL i will bring my warrior and you can bring for marauder ele, i say good luck to you

GW2 doesn’t have 1v1 ranked pvp. Suggesting that some builds are stronger in 1v1 situations doesn’t make them any more viable in 5v5.

Ele is a support character since HOT. Currently a ele will lose to multiple professions in 1 vs 1 with any build if they builds are played right.

It is only viable threw the support of other classes giving healing.

Take away other players heals, the lack of sustain or stability, (the nerf which gives 40% protection on overloads which means only earth overloads) and couple that with you need to run shouts or weapon sets with multiple auras.

Take away 1-2 things from the meta and try running it against good players. You will crumble hard. Im not talking unranked where you can run P/P thief or full trap ranger and have success. Im talking where people will play there best class with the best builds and you are sitting there running a glass ele.

I didnt say because he couldnt win a 1 vs 1 that it is less viable. But if you want to break it down ele does almost everything to the least amount except support. You could bring a dps DH, warrior, necro and it would have better team dps. You could trade a dps thief to play the outsides and that would be better then a glass ele.

You can run terrible builds when you are far superior in skill then the other players but when facing equally skilled player where classes/comp and rotations matter. Running marauder ele is not useful in almost every aspect.

Even if its not a 1 vs 1,

In ranked matches in S2-S4 if i was in a good group (because i mostly solo qued) we caught on to what people were running quickly.

We noticed the the glass ele, the hammer rev and we targeted them first.

When im with my guild team for guild missions or during the season. We would call out if he was running arcane or if the ele switched to earth for stone heart/stability etc etc etc.

Im sorry but obviously when in TS, running a odd build will get caught very fast.

When you get good pugs, once again the same thing will happen. Having a ele slightly outside the group fight will be a tell for thieves or anyone else to chase that player and farm them.

sephiroth.4217:

Xillllix.3485:

Lymphy.1276:

Xillllix.3485:

If you played the game since launch you know there are way less build possibilities now than before the new trait system, specially on some classes like the elementalist that has become brain dead boring to play.

I don’t play elementalist enough to be qualified to discuss about their builds, but our of curiosity what builds did they have pre HoT vs now and where are you getting it from?

I was playing a custom power/celestial elementalist build that used condi-duration from the fire trait line, water and arcane.

It was amazing fun, it was a build made to maximize damage burst on an immobilized foe by controlling the quickness and intelligence sigil. It only used 1 specific combo for opening fights. At the same time it was really situational and needed personal investment to succeed.

Not all 3 lines were maxed but points 4 lines were possible in some variations.

The opening combo had a great burst potential.

Passive in air:
At 900 distance: Opening using Signet of Earth, started 4 sec immob – Triggered intelligence sigil
Switched to fire once in combat.

Under the intelligence sigil:
Burning Speed 100% Crit – Triggers rage sigil quickness

With quickness:
Ring of Fire
Fire Grab 100% Crit

Earthquake 100% crit (interrupt synchronized with the end of the first immob)
Magnetic Grasp (second immob)
Churning Earth+Lightning flash (still with quickness if pulled off perfectly)

While channeling churning earth:
Frost Aura

(There is no time for anything else in that chain if you wish to get your churning earth under quickness, I’ve tested it thoroughly.)

Then if somehow he’s still up the typical:
Frozen Burst
Updraft
Ride the Lightning
Lightning Whip

The extra condi duration really gave an edge to the elementalist class for a condi/power hybrid, since condi damage on the elementalist is mostly bad.

The meta just doesn’t support that type of gameplay anymore, and the trait system doesn’t either. Too many passive dazes and interrupts, too many condis, everyone is equipping stun breaks because of the damage creep, too many boons and immunities. Everything has cheesed up.

Before HoT was exactly like you said, Celestial.

Only Celestial. Then it was Clerics.

Now it’s Sage, Marauder, Paladin, Menders, Vipers and so on….

I find this build diversity thing to be limited by the players, not the game. It’s always Easier to spam Auras on a Menders build than it is to evade the damage on a Marauder Build.

LOL i will bring my warrior and you can bring for marauder ele, i say good luck to you

fishball.7204:

I don’t use these rooms every day, maybe once a week or twice but they’re good if I need a quick daily.

The guys in there mostly don’t even PvP anyway, they just want a fast daily done and go back to PvE or whatever else they’re doing irl.

The only thing that will happen from banning daily/hotjoin rooms is that more people get frustrated and quit the game.

The new titles from PvP (Legend, Sea Dog, Eternal Gladiator) can’t be farmed in daily/hotjoin rooms already so you already have those exclusive things, just leave the hotjoin rooms to the non PvP players, their game play (or lack thereof) hardly affects you personally.

Also the rewards from hotjoin are CAPPED per day, you cannot farm hotjoin for 24 hours and progress faster than rated matches due to this.

TL;DR: killing hotjoin rooms won’t suddenly increase your real PvP population but rather just frustrate players who don’t care much for PvP in the first place.

agreed but why are they in there then?

If Anet wants to to be casual for everyone make it casual for everyone. Make it so raid rewards can be a reward track for PvP and WvW.

There is plenty of frustration going around for everything.

I simply want for PvP players to get PvP rewards. PvP can have its own unique items.

WvW to get there unique rewards for Leveling to say 2k, 3k, 4k+ rank

Fractal players got a back pc.

Raid players are getting legendary armor.

I simply dont see why PvP is the ugly step child Anet doesnt take care of. You yourself said “rather just frustrate players who don’t care much for PvP in the first place”. If they dont care for PvP why are they in there? If Anet whats to give incentives to people for PvPing. Make it legit with good Match Making, good build diversity and a real system in place such as leader boards and que areas. They are hurting the other areas of the game by doing this. If someone needs tokens from dungeons. Instead of doing dungeons they just use the PvP potions they got from standing in a map for 15 minutes.

If Anet wants it easy for everyone why not just give people a majority of the rewards for simply logging in?

I agree with many of the things you are all saying.

Do those that do not agree, i would like to say that many people have already fixed the problems you have proposed.

Daily profession wins will be replaced with win 2-3 games. It forces people to actually play the game, i know its a crazy thought.

Also this will fix stacking, just a few days ago i had a match where everyone played thief or Dh including myself for a daily. Please tell me how this is good?

Anet just announced they are giving AP points for old maps and continuing the old maps.

PvP hasnt been for the PvP players in a long time. With the legendary back back grind, with PvP daily rooms, with Anet removing 8 vs 8. (which i agree, some of the most fun games i had was running some crazy build for fun in a room full of chaos)

Id like to point out that sky hammer ruined HOT JOIN for me when it came out. Then the level fix to bring PvE into PvP and more casual.

I just like to point out that everything Anet does is for the casual PvE player. HOT JOIN and PvP DAILY ROOMS are for PvE casuals.

WvW players had crafting stations removed because it ruined a numbers aspect. I say PvP should do some changes to make it better as well. We havent seen a good PvP update for awhile.

surrge.3214:

i don’t get it, you find it odd that they are dropping people so easily yet you don’t want them to multi class and complain about their lackluster performance off of their mains?? so don’t drop them and play a sub par comp to have everyone play on their mains is what you are saying?

That part is more or less the competitor in me.

I would like for each people to play there mains. (especially when they are significantly better at it)

Its like when the Spurs got to back to back finals in like 13-14.

Duncan and ginobli who were the faces of the team were still the faces of the team. Yet roles changed and they were still able to win a champion ship 10 years after there prime years.

Here you have multiple teams/players moving left and right and i understand this.

There is just something more memorable about teams that stick together and sticking to there guns whether its riding with the wave or against it.

Rednik.3809:

Sure, because deleting game modes is definitely makes people happy. Like, it greatly increased PvP population when they gutted previous iteration of hotjoin (which was most popular PvP mode) and deleted soloQ (which was second popular), right?

I love 8 vs 8 hot joins, i can say you got me there.

But solo que was dead. At the end there no one was solo queing. I remember having 1-2 hr long ques in solo and then when i yolo qued i got a match in 2 minutes.

People cry for solo que because we used to have it and we dont have it now and they need a excuse for not winning but no one was playing it.

For me its

Healing ele- shouts and such (power, vitatility healing -stats)
Condi ranger- shortbow with like axe-torch with some heals ( condi – vitality- healing -)
Rev with glint ( zerk gear)
PS warrior (zerk gear)

5th is optional but DPS thief, DPS DH, condi Necro, DPS mesmer, any will do.

Simply put i like being in fractals where people dont die and you can go full ham on something without worrying about anything yet the DPS is good enough that the frac goes by quickly.

Yeah i have to agree, the build is odd.

If you are roaming with a small group why even take PS?

The tactics trait line makes it really hard to take seriously. Then not choosing defy the pain in the defense trait line, wow.

Lets just say your 5 friends are running around and you get ganked by 5 other players coming out of SR.

Dont mean to dump on like everyone else but it just doesnt look like steak when people are looking for steak.

Im wondering if Anet should do this?

I recently was looking for a server to play on since i didnt want to wait in que for a match.

I ended up joining a PvP daily room where i got flamed for killing 2 people who were on the winning team.

This was my first time in a room like this and i thought this really defeated the purpose of PvP rewards and dailies.

I personally would be for this. Just like the PvP seasons, i want people who PvP to get the PvP rewards. A big reason why the people i played with left GW2 was the big patch some time ago where Anet made leveling easier for casuals. Not only did Anet made getting to level 80 in PvP easy now, it seems alot of people just go to daily PvP rooms and collect rewards.

I personally think HOT JOIN servers should turn into 1 vs 1 rooms where people can practice but dont get rewards to tracks or dailys from these rooms.

I dont know, it just be nice if Anet actually gave PvP back to the PvP community.

Azukas.1426:

kdaddy.5431:

Azukas.1426:

Doctor.1905:

Azukas.1426:

So what did the Abjured change up their roster or just have sub

The abjured (astral authority) replaced Chaith with Zoose. After their huge loss against Vermillion, the abjured decided to kick out Chaith which is really odd considering Nos is the absolute worst abjured. NA will be caving into EU pressure by not playing the worst class in this game (tef) and using a meta mesmer for superior rotations and moa spams. Right now it seems like…
STRONGEST TO WEAKEST

Big Man Toker- rev
Captain Phantaram- DH or something else
Wakkey- ele
Zoose- mesmer
..
Nos- only class he can play

Let’s hope they can rip that smug smile off of Helseth.

So they booted their long time captain to pick up Z

Interesting since Wakkey Toker and Chaith were from the original GF team.

Wasn’t Chaith the one who quarterbacked the deal with Atral Authority?

I asked Olrun about it and its so odd to me that people quit there teams or kick team mates to me. It would be totally ok if someone left the team because people didnt get along but having a captain kick someone 1 season and then the next leave the team for another. So crazy to me.

Obviously the League is a win now mode. I might be to old to understand but when i played Summer League ball in the 90’s. It was with the people i played with in JH and HS.

If we were to win i want to win with them. Obviously many of the top tier players are friends even though they are not on teams but its such a odd thing to me.

Well ever since HoT that team hasn’t been the same. They’ve had real trouble since HoT and I think this is due to their inability to multi class effectively. You could also argue that they’ve not had a favorable meta since HoT due to their native classes vs the EU players native classes. There’s literally no mesmers in NA tbh and mesmers have been such a huge deciding factor in games since HoT released.

I dunno there’s more to it and we’ll prolly never know.

yeah i agree still, i still find it odd that you could drop someone so easily.

It would also be nice if they would quit trying to pretend that they can play all these different classes.

So far we have seen zoose try DH S1 (i think?) mesmer and engy and perform below the elite standard as well as wakkey try DH, five gauge on druid, even phanta to me is below all the EU mesmers in the top 4 teams maybe even 5.

I agree who knows but its crazy to me.

Ohhh i understand but like you said, there are pug groups in this tournament.

Until i see a thief do well against in a actual tournament were teams are fighting for placement, to get to a playoffs. To face off in a land event, I still feel that is the case.

Its one thing to face people in a day were people are tired or havent been playing and rotations might be off.

Its another to face a team of people who have practiced a few hours a day and have faced competition week in and week out.

You can prove me wrong, im all for it. I believe im right and nothing from this TOL showed me otherwise other then a really good thief was on a really good team where alot of pugs and teams were picking up randoms.

Azukas.1426:

Doctor.1905:

Azukas.1426:

So what did the Abjured change up their roster or just have sub

The abjured (astral authority) replaced Chaith with Zoose. After their huge loss against Vermillion, the abjured decided to kick out Chaith which is really odd considering Nos is the absolute worst abjured. NA will be caving into EU pressure by not playing the worst class in this game (tef) and using a meta mesmer for superior rotations and moa spams. Right now it seems like…
STRONGEST TO WEAKEST

Big Man Toker- rev
Captain Phantaram- DH or something else
Wakkey- ele
Zoose- mesmer
..
Nos- only class he can play

Let’s hope they can rip that smug smile off of Helseth.

So they booted their long time captain to pick up Z

Interesting since Wakkey Toker and Chaith were from the original GF team.

Wasn’t Chaith the one who quarterbacked the deal with Atral Authority?

I asked Olrun about it and its so odd to me that people quit there teams or kick team mates to me. It would be totally ok if someone left the team because people didnt get along but having a captain kick someone 1 season and then the next leave the team for another. So crazy to me.

Obviously the League is a win now mode. I might be to old to understand but when i played Summer League ball in the 90’s. It was with the people i played with in JH and HS.

If we were to win i want to win with them. Obviously many of the top tier players are friends even though they are not on teams but its such a odd thing to me.

bluri.2653:

I understand your sceptisism and i’m fine with that.

Helseth is saying how he would optimal want to play against a thief comp of course and thats natural since he knows the weakness, however executing that is different than knowing the weakness.

It’s natural that they have ideas on how to stop thief otherwise all teams would play thief if you don’t know how to deal with it, right?

But what I more or less meant was the team that got placed second who already beat a thief comp should have enough understanding how to counter it yes? Yet they got beaten by a mix team, that should give you the understanding that it just isn’t do this and do that

Everything you say is correct.

But once again lets get Helseth or TCG or what ever they want to call themselves in the situations.

Of course having a elite thief will counter some of the mesmer/ team comps you can mess around with because of rotation and personal skill issues.

Lets just say we have the best 4 teams from EU and the 4 best from NA. And they are playing at the highest level. Out of these 8 teams lets just say 3 ( since Eu had 3 last tournament who did not play thief and crushed the thief team comps) know how to rotate and handle a thief in 1 vs 1 situations.

Because these 3 teams know how to do it, the 5 other teams can not play thief. It also allows these 3 teams to play the most effective builds possible without worrying about a niche team comp that might give other teams problems due to a lack of skilled rotations or ability to handle a certain player on a certain class.

Thats all im trying to say, is when the best play the best i personally dont think thief and warrior can be used in a team comp in this current meta.

Lymphy.1276:

I have seen few posts related to lack of build diversity and i kinda disagree, here is why.
In GW2 you build around a playstyle of a weapon, and a weapon is designed to excel at a specific role. When looking at builds in competitive PvP game mode most if not all favor versatility over a niche. Does that mean non meta builds are bad? No that just means they are not well rounded. For instance Rev hammer build does insane damage at long range, but lacks utility to survive vs a high mobility melee. That niche opens you up for certain hard counters while makes you a hard counter for others(including strong meta builds).

I think the reason players say GW2 lacks build diversity is due to idea that meta is something of “be all end all”, while in reality of GW2, its just a build equipped with tools to handle wider range of other builds(some builds more then others) at the coast of definition. Meta is in a sense a way to fight a random pvp que.

P.S. GW2 has the best pvp in mmo to date.

I agree with the " GW2 has the best pvp in mmo to date" comment but you do realize you pointed out the fault in the game with your own hammer rev comment right?

If you are playing hammer rev and im playing the meta rev, the question becomes can a team build around 1 another to accommodate your build? The answer is no, so in team fights you will be weaker and in 1 vs 1/ 2 vs 2 you will be weaker against equally skilled players.

Lets say you are playing axe/axe warrior and im playing greatsword. I get 1 gap closer and 1 evade movement skill. Our bursts skills do the same amount of damage. Yet your a/a build has no evade/stun/block. Who will win?

This is simply the complaint about build diversity. Right now every class is offensive other then ele. Which forces the game to be played a certain way.

So right now, we have a lack of diversity with in each class and a lack of team diversity.

In this last TOL we had many teams run 0-5-0 splits in the fear of getting ganked.

Of course metas change but you want things to get better. S1 of HOT it was the bunker meta where everyone ran to a different point. This is the exact opposite where everyone runs together.

Is one better then the other? to some yes but to me its the same thing. We all might as well be playing revs/ele and bunker mesmers. The only difference is ESL only allows for 1 class per team.

I would like to join in on this

So im not a AP hunter thought im at 28.3 AP. It mostly since i have been playing since Pre and i do a bit of everything. I would like to say a few things.

1- The daily cap is a good thing, no reason for people to have 50k AP because they do dailies. 15k for monthly and dailies was good. I think having alot of AP shows you play all aspects of the game and it shouldnt be grinded too. So the AP from LS, events, WvW, PvP shows a players commitment to the game. Which makes the titles more enjoyable for the players who have spent the time in the game.

2- I and many guild members think people are having a issue with AP is simply because there has been a lack of content. For instance i have not done the TD-DS maps and i am at 130 HOT level because i dont have the mastery points.

There are just some aspects of HOT that many people just dont like. For me its the zerg meta events which cause maps to be empty when the event isnt going on. I did core Tyria with 2 characters to 100% and full ascended gear before HOT came out. I am yet to finish all 4 HOT maps with all my characters combined.

Throw that with each map has its own currency, there are things i and some guildies want but dont want to do AB meta event 100 times. It just wont happen. So now AB-TD-DS- blood stone fen -Ember Bay all have there own currencies. It takes away from the game to the people ive talked too.

The immersion is gone, we spend more time now looking for squads ( though the LFG doesnt remove full maps) or events to grind then playing to get certain items.

This is another reason why alot of people are asking for AP dailys to come back.

3- Hidden AP
This one gets a topic because it strikes me wrong. Its a really odd thing to hide things away from players. For instance i still havent taken down all the posters and Ebonhawke stuff but i know where it is if i want to go for it 1 day. This is something i know i could do if i have free time.

So HOT as well as the new farming maps are striking people wrong, the lack of content for alot of players who are not raiding every week and then to cap off hidden AP that people are now starting to find.

I know a few people who are frustrated with the game. They dont raid and struggle to get in these meta event maps. They can only farm a map so much before they dont ever want to go back. Halloween became a zerg fest with only the easy dungeon and LAB to do for rewards.

So all in all you have people stuck all over the game. Alot of people bought HOT since they were done with core Tyria.

If you dont raid, dont like looking for squads in maps for AB-TD-DS and are tired of the new farm maps. This person here which i have 2-3 guild mates who are. They simply log in and not sure what to do other then dailies which they dont get AP for.

I understand both sides, i dont think daily cap should be fixed. I like where it is. I think Anet needs to put out some content where it keeps people active with the amount of content instead of asking people to farm maps/raids.

xKratos.4758:

You guys do not take into account the team comps as well as map choices. The reason people do 0-5-0 splits is because usually on maps like legacy or forest if you send 1 home 4 mid or 1-3-1 vs a team with stealths then it will often result in one of your player getting 100-0 by the gank squad, and in this meta 1 death = instant stagger at high level plays. I can’t speak for other teams but my teams when we played NL used the 0-5-0 solely for this reason because they have a thief which add the threat of ganking. Yes, we didn’t win but that’s because we made small mistakes which cost us. In this meta if you make 2 or 3 mistakes the match could instantly turn into a snowball. It’s not like unranked where you just go far 1v2 and hope your team win 4v3. At “high tier” teams like Abjured, NL, Pz, etc. Will punish you for not regrouping or splitting like soloQers. Meta changes, teams adapt. Saying you just need to zerg to be effective is very wrong. There are rotations upon rotations in those ToL games. Even in NA scene which I know is a meme but sadly y’all too ignorant and salty to accept that meta changes and you gotta move on.

No one here is saying that zerging is the only rotation/ move you make.

Your guys seem to be reading this wrong but when most of the fights are 4 vs 4 and 5 vs 5. That is zerg fighting.

Just to point out the match, 5 went mid and all 5 went to the far where zoose and the DH ran to blue home where the Abjured was able to force a 5 vs 5 at the blue home.

There were many rotations in between but when you can say you are trying to force the + 1 by 4 vs 3 and 5 vs 4. That is zerg fighting.

Metas change all i was saying is zerging is the new meta which so far no one has said differently other then maybe i dont know how to rotate or i dont know whats going which is fine. Yet when the comments by storm, Heurix, jebro and helseth are my examples.

Its easy to say there is rotations in rotations, that not what im arguing. Its the fact the meta is zerg zerg zerg which im not wrong. Also when there is no other play style, thats another issue.

bluri.2653:

Just to clarify some things kdaddy

1. The team we obliterated was a full ESL pro leauge player team.
2. Helseth said in the future that he would want to play the thief setup not in the past, and since there’s nothing coming up right now how do you know they are not preparing for it?
3. We beat vM in the finals with thief, a team who never played together. vM beat Abjured’s thief comp at worlds. And this was also a stronger vM with frostball back on roster who is miles ahead of kerv on mesmer fyi
4. Just because you say do this and that, applying it in a game is completely different. It’s very easy to say what things should be done and then actually do it, then enemy team can also adapt and change up stuff. You think way too one dimensional mate, mesmer allows you to do so much with portals and thief combined

Peace

Thats fine im more then willing to accept im wrong but i would like to see it.

Also i wasnt saying these things it was helseth. At this stage im like the reporter saying Jordan says and everyone say reporter your wrong when all im doing is reading what they are saying and what im seeing.

Dirame.8521:

kdaddy.5431:

Its pretty clear there is not a place for thief and warrior in the elite PvP scene which is probably 4-5 teams. You can also see that there is very little room for team comps.

There is plenty of room for team comps. There is plenty of room for experimentation. The difference between Pro teams and non-pro teams is practice and experience. They have experience fighting good Thieves and fighting good warriors and fighting good mesmers, so therefore if Thijsken holds a 2v1 it’s not only because his build is good, it’s also because he’s actually been in that situation many times and he knows how to handle it.
So if the other players are playing whatever build they are playing, they would have to know how to use that build EFFECTIVELY against Thijsken in order to be able to down him fast.

kdaddy.5431:

helseth was literally listing off the reasons players shouldnt be doing such and such. You were talking rotations, about how EU did it better but its still the same thing. Helseth was literally saying how you make the thief unviable in the current meta which once again forces the 5 vs 5 zergs with the 5 vs 5 zerg comp.

So let’s say blue team tries to force a 5v5, is red team obligated to take that 5v5 or can’t they just out-rotate the people trying to force the 5v5? Is there just 1 tactic in the game or are there not any counters?
Kdaddy, just watch how the good players rotate and you’ll understand that “zerging” is just one phase of the whole dynamic. There are too many factors at play in a game to say “Oh, this one tactic, boom, that’s the best.” If you do that, then you’re not going to be good at GW2.

Your comment is incorrect, the engy that held a 2 vs 1 against lets just say good players. Was completely nullified by players of equal level. The next 2 matches they played they were destroyed resulting in a 192-0 loss which brings that comment to a halt.

So on the point of skill/ability level. During the game The Abjured loss heurix said he wouldnt take anyone from the other team over anyone from the Abjured. He is literally saying that everyone from the Abjured is better at the respective classes which showed when toker got some of them on islands.

Think about that, they won 1 and controlled another map for 1/3 of the match by simply engaging the 5 vs X.

The Abjured didnt struggle in the finals against equally skilled players. They did struggle against players who were supposedly of a lesser skill level who ran a WvW like comp.

Thats not me saying thats the only tactic, that was me saying that is the best tactic. I believe Helseth comments reinforce my argument when he was discussing rotations and how you want to move the thief in the very last match.

NA played it differently then EU and you saw that from the Semi final scores. The NA side had non-ESL teams able to actually compete where the EU teams tried to play old school rotations and the result was not pretty.

Patrick.2987:

Maybe you should rewatch it as helseth said his team is gonna use thief and it is rly hard to work against it in rotations. From far what i have seen thief is doin pretty good.

I be careful with that comment, he said that then didnt really give a explanation of why his team didnt run thief.

He also spent a heavy amount of time explaining ways to counter thief in future games with sind in it.

So as i try to put it all together it looks like he already has in mind what he would do against people like toker, levin or sind who could possible take thief into a tournament.

So the question becomes can thief out play X class in a 1 vs 1 or have enough mobility to pull off the +1. IMO thief might be able too but is not useful in team fights which is were the game is at.

Dirame.8521:

Reaper Alim.4176:

AHAHAAHAHAHA. I know right! That’s what I’ve been telling people. I still remember the days in PvP where if your team zerged yall automatically lost. But ANet has made GW2 even more social and casual then took away most of the skill that used to be required to PvP. Now the casual zerglings win most of the matches. Then people still try to tell others that bold face lie that GW2 is competitive and skill based. LEL

Watching a match is very different from playing in a match, you can say “pff that’s easy” until you actually get in there and get your fists dirty.

It takes skill to get rotations right and even to get the zerg right. 1 false move and 4 people could wipe 5, 3 people could wipe 5, etc etc because the game IS about skill. If you’re prone to throwing your hands up every time you’re outnumbered, you’ll never be able to win in those outnumbered situations.

You can take a look at EU’s ability to out-rotate and counter each other as a plain example of this game requiring quick decisions and forethought.

I have to disagree, i just watched the EU TOL and the few things i noticed were not about rotations till the final match up.

1- Helseth casting is the best. Dude is funny and calls it like it is. He is the Doug Collins of GW2 play by play. Awesome work there.

2- In the match of Bee Yourself vs RgR, you saw what is wrong with HOT. Simply put the meta builds are stronger in every possible way. You had the viper shout necro and the retri rev. Helseth on the first map pointed that out for the reason they lost that first map. He called them safe builds but i dont know how you call them safe when they are not as effective. Might as well of called it pug comp.

You also saw the level ability. Twice you saw the engy handle a 1 vs 2 vs a warrior and a thief. Very next match you saw what a ESL team does to players playing safe builds. They got thrashed to the point it was over 192-0.

3- The meta, you could see why helseth is bald. He must of pulled all his hair out talking about rotations. Literally as it was happening even in the Vermillion match, saying stuff like ohh he should go there and you want to force sind into team fights by doing this this and this.

Its pretty clear there is not a place for thief and warrior in the elite PvP scene which is probably 4-5 teams. You can also see that there is very little room for team comps.

helseth was literally listing off the reasons players shouldnt be doing such and such. You were talking rotations, about how EU did it better but its still the same thing. Helseth was literally saying how you make the thief unviable in the current meta which once again forces the 5 vs 5 zergs with the 5 vs 5 zerg comp.

The non-ESL teams from EU got destroyed where as the non-ESL NA team took 1 off the Abjured and controlled the first half of the first map by zerging.

Obviously there is a certain amount of skill involved. Yet when you watch the both TOL tournaments you realize the same thing. When you got equally skilled players on both sides it came down to zerg fights.

NotASmurf.1725:

Hammerguard.9834:

steelheart.7386:

No league as far as I know in the near future. Rotten matchmaking. Crappy rewards. Is this some kind of joke?

what do you think ToL is for?

To draw attention from the state of PvP?

what attention is that?

Anet is doing nothing else for the game, halloween was worse then years before. People are caring less for raids, WvW is slowly dying and TOL showed PvP is dying.

Yes please draw attention to 5 vs 5 off point fights!!!!!!!!!

At least bring us a death match map if we are forced to play this crap meta.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Comps with Necromancer are very team fight oriented. Metas change. Sometimes that will be the case. However, there are viable comps that don’t focus on the team fights.

I can agree but it is so hard to say that when a team opts to go 5 mid and not cap home.

Then they control the first 3-4 minutes of the game vs the best team in NA for the last 3-4 years.

And they did it by zerg fighting, its really hard to agree with “there are viable comps that dont focus on team fights”, im not saying there isnt but wow.

Reaper Alim.4176:

AHAHAAHAHAHA. I know right! That’s what I’ve been telling people. I still remember the days in PvP where if your team zerged yall automatically lost. But ANet has made GW2 even more social and casual then took away most of the skill that used to be required to PvP. Now the casual zerglings win most of the matches. Then people still try to tell others that bold face lie that GW2 is competitive and skill based. LEL

Wow i was thinking the exact same thing.

When i started playing with people who wanted to take matches seriously. They always made comments about people who zerged. Every thread about rotations before this was about not zerging.

When i saw that BBTC vs Abjured match where they went 5 mid and was winning the match because the zerged together. I was like WOW. They started losing because they split apart. Zoose and DH ran far and they started to split. If they zerged the whole match i be willing to bet my all my gold on it they would of won.

Also toker was destroying them left and right when they tried to engage him in 1 vs 1.

2 things caught me too, storm said “this is like a death match” because they were fighting 5 vs 5 off point. And Heurix said he would take anyone from BBTC over anyone from the Abjured and they almost beat them in 1 match and took legacy.

I agree with you 100% its hard to be skill based when the most important thing is staying in 5 vs 5 fights all over the map.

ZERG ZERG ZERG ZERG ZERG ZERG

MO was right,

“if your into WvW typically your really into Pve”

Explains so much since PvE is about multi farming maps in zergs with zergs events. Where WvW has become a joke with super speed golems and placable cannons.

Now PvP must look the same, Everyone must zerg together.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Abjured was not happy with Chaith’s performance in the past two or three events, so they replaced him with Zoose from Team PZ. Kaypud is taking a break until the next real money event. I think I heard Phantaram has family in town over this weekend, so kitten is subbing for him. I don’t know if you know what happened to the NL roster between S2 and WQ, but two of our members left for FF and the other two didn’t want to play without Stalagta. Our roster wasn’t ideal from the start and fell apart due to multiple reasons.

Generally, teams won’t swap around much if they’re doing well. The Abjured’s roster has been consistent for over a year, since just after the first WTS. PZ formed for Pro League Season 1, and the only roster change they’ve made before now was replacing Marvin with Paul due to performance. People aren’t as committed on weaker teams, so it’s a constant rotation of new players. Never Lucky is a prime example of that.

Thank you for the info

Reaper Alim.4176:

The thing I find funny the most is. That alot of people are expecting a PvE focused game to provide competitive eSports level sPvP matches, and a bunch of build diversity in PvP. Then the same guys can’t even provide build diversity in their favored PvE game mode ie. Raids and Fractals.

It’s honestly asking like asking a fast food restaurant to make you a high quality three course meal with dessert just because they sell food. It’s just not going to happen, same case here and most other PvE based games with PvP as a side project.

Honestly if you want quality based pvp then you have to go to the games that primarily focus on PvP. Other then that you and most of the posters on these forums about GW2’s PvP being kitten is completely a mute point and more then likely the devs care very little about PvP or WvW in their primarily PvE based game. You know the mode that they make the most money from(PvE).

I agree 100%

Im simply arguing because you have people defending it.

Like the individual i replied to and the one started talking about 2 condi builds that is good for warrior.

To use your example- 1 is a steak with mash potatoes and the other is a steak with a baked potato.

Then that person calls it something completely different. No its not, its steak and potatoes.

All im trying to point out was Pre HOT, we had more builds to play. Ele you could play s/f with the air trait line, staff with the earth trait line and conjure weapons and d/d with cantrips in the fire trait line. All 3 use different weapons, spec lines, traits and utility skills.

Warrior shout, the other stances. Guardian had shout build, burst burn, and not at a ESL level but at high level of game play a DPS medi build.

The list goes on and on, i agree with you that the mindless debate/arguing from us is meaningless.

But its about opening peoples minds and telling them to ask for more. I for one will not buy the next expansion. I have had numerous threads deleted such as the one about necro Greatswords where i debated Olrun on the issue.

Yes this is a PvE game but like the title says, PvP has never been this bad unless you want to count HOT season 1 or pre hot d/d ele which was right before HOT.

It just be nice to quit seeing people write ohhh i can use mace/shield sword torch with warrior or i can go axe/shield and great sword. ( with the exact same traits/specs- amulet- rune) And calling it a different build.

suffish.4150:

kdaddy.5431:

suffish.4150:

Getting 26 teams in EU alone is a huge success in my opinion! It shows that many people really are interested in playing competitively. Remember that each team has 5 players so that means that there are 130 players who are interested in competitive play which is a massive amount. This gives me a really good feeling that there will be more competition for next year’s pro events which is a good thing because it will be great to see players I regularly play against in ranked in EU in pro league and other events.

To be honest I didn’t even expect 16 teams to sign up in each region so this ToL has gone above what I expected it to and I can’t wait to watch the streams tomorrow and on Sunday. It should be amazing.

What really?

The past 2 tournaments were getting over 100+ teams and now it is 26?

Ill be honest i went and checked just now what the NA side looked like and 2 things stood out.

1- Very few ESL teams were in there.
You had Never Lucky, PZ who seem to have 2 subs maybe? and then scape goats who has 2-3 ESL players if im mistaken which isnt a great thing for the community seeing its top teams not really join in the madness.

2- OE subbing for fivegauge?
I wasnt gonna watch but i will for this, what if they dominate? What if they crash and burn with OE back? My goodness the drama that could come from that ( evil laugh inserted)

But honestly only 20 teams for NA? Ag use to get 10 full teams with 2 free agents and the ESL scene had there 10 or so teams. Not good, not good at all.

To be honest it doesn’t matter what the numbers were years ago, I am just saying it is more than I expected for now, which is a great thing.

PZ does not have 2 subs, that is their new roster because zoose and kaypud left.

OE is not subbing, chaith is no longer is abjured and zoose is the new member on abjured, I don’t know why it does not say this on the ToL website but what I say is correct.

Alright alright its your feeling about it and i cant argue it. Should be good games though.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

There probably is more to it, but the biggest factor is probably that people can get Mini Llamas in other ways, now. Also, while Zeromis is permanently replacing Zoose (since he moved to PZ), Supcutie is only temporarily replacing Kaypud (who will be returning for the next real money event). There’s been movement on all of the NA teams, though. Abjured is 3/5, PZ is 3/5, and NL is 2/5.

If i may,

Why do people move around so much?

Is it to put themselves in better positions? Obviously there might be some frustration with a group after a period of time. But in all 4 seasons there have been massive team swaps from EU and NA. Just wondering if there was real life issues or more less individual decisions?

I also run pug groups, the 2 guilds i was trying to run with run into all sorts of issues.

This is a screen shot pre-patch of a pug group using 2 power engy for gors.

It could be done and we had great success in Vg/Gors and got sab to about 20% before the fire wall owned us.

But pug groups are toxic, usually ruled by 1-2 people who call for kicks among other stuff really fast.

Ive done raids twice in the last week never got the kill either time. Simply put the last patch made it harder for those pugs who were just getting by. These people are no longer getting the kills and the more experienced groups are still fine but the kills are just closer or come with struggle. There are a few groups who still dominate but thats a huge minority.

Im sorry im in the same boat when it comes to pugging but this is what the game is about now.

HOT is about raids and zergs, you are either running the meta build with mirror comp or in the meta map getting the rewards. Or your in the small group either just getting by or not getting anything.

I personally have started to move on.

suffish.4150:

Getting 26 teams in EU alone is a huge success in my opinion! It shows that many people really are interested in playing competitively. Remember that each team has 5 players so that means that there are 130 players who are interested in competitive play which is a massive amount. This gives me a really good feeling that there will be more competition for next year’s pro events which is a good thing because it will be great to see players I regularly play against in ranked in EU in pro league and other events.

To be honest I didn’t even expect 16 teams to sign up in each region so this ToL has gone above what I expected it to and I can’t wait to watch the streams tomorrow and on Sunday. It should be amazing.

What really?

The past 2 tournaments were getting over 100+ teams and now it is 26?

Ill be honest i went and checked just now what the NA side looked like and 2 things stood out.

1- Very few ESL teams were in there.
You had Never Lucky, PZ who seem to have 2 subs maybe? and then scape goats who has 2-3 ESL players if im mistaken which isnt a great thing for the community seeing its top teams not really join in the madness.

2- OE subbing for fivegauge?
I wasnt gonna watch but i will for this, what if they dominate? What if they crash and burn with OE back? My goodness the drama that could come from that ( evil laugh inserted)

But honestly only 20 teams for NA? Ag use to get 10 full teams with 2 free agents and the ESL scene had there 10 or so teams. Not good, not good at all.

I have to agree.

A majority of the top players solo que as it is. And those days of facing a ESL premade is fun if you werent thinking about losing those PiPs.

Also i got into build diversity with Olrun on a thread that was deleted but seriously HOT killed peoples passion for this game.

I played in a few of the AG tournaments ( i want to say around 30-38) and the team i was on didnt make it into 2-3 of them because it was full. So twice i entered as a FA.

Anet can make the changes that should of already done which is add a real leader board, add real rewards to different levels, quit trying to cater to the casual and if they do all this it wont change anything.

Everyone looks at PvP the same now, its spammy and thoughtless. Game play was slower in in matches for core GW2 but you had to think. You had to time your burst, we literally had someone post a ESL tournament of fight of a 1 vs 1 between 2 revs who didnt hit each other because they used the exact same combination of skills.

Thats what i mean by thoughtless, before HOT you were looking at what the enemy was doing. Now with all the effects, clutter and lets just call it what it is which is junk being thrown around. People dont want to spend time grouping up for that.

ESL/Leagues brought in money and it was suppose to bring in more groups. It didnt bring any new blood. Now Anet gets rid of team que because some players thinks that why they cant win which is fine but once this next season starts.

Ill be the first to say it, i think this upcoming season will break the camels back. Simply put HOT specs are not fun and it shows across the board.

26 teams Anet, i remember getting those emials about how you guys had to expand tournaments because of how many teams entered. Now this game cant even get people to enter tournaments for fun.

Marxx.5021:

kdaddy.5431:

Cal Cohen.3527:

Funnily enough I mostly played power necro when climbing to legend last season. The build I played is pretty janky, but it was a fun change of pace and ended up being a bit better than I expected.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBIhZ6kZTocTsbTwdTgeTsgLYQXtAwBgKN0GeWxXxuYYE-TpBFABMcEAA4BAU/+DNcIAEvMABnAAA

Depending on the amount of condi builds on the enemy team I would swap in plague signet, and if the enemy comp was super condi heavy I would swap SR for curses to get the extra plague signet proc as well.

Not trying to say power necro is top tier or anything but it was good enough to win games with and pretty fun to play.

Sorry just looked at the build and realized you had no stun breakers.

Im guessing its why people were complaining pretty hard about MATCH MAKING

This build has a stun breaker. I have played it last two days in solo queue. It was fun. I just switched to augury of death and sigil of strength for sigil of air. It has so much more sustain as all those condi meta builds because of insane life force generation.

You are correct, thank you for pointing out that i do not know necro very but honestly.

On my ranger alone i was using staff and longbow with 2 glyphs (which had knock back or stuns) the pet taunt (beastly warden) and the root trait (ancient seeds).

When necro is the first target everyone chooses im still wondering. Maybe if more of you try it but ive played mostly warrior, ranger and ele threw all the seasons and on warrior im running stuns/dazes for days.

But i give it up if the dev says it works and you say it works, so be it. I guess alot of us need to run more 1 stability reaper skills with 1 stun break.

Cal Cohen.3527:

Funnily enough I mostly played power necro when climbing to legend last season. The build I played is pretty janky, but it was a fun change of pace and ended up being a bit better than I expected.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBIhZ6kZTocTsbTwdTgeTsgLYQXtAwBgKN0GeWxXxuYYE-TpBFABMcEAA4BAU/+DNcIAEvMABnAAA

Depending on the amount of condi builds on the enemy team I would swap in plague signet, and if the enemy comp was super condi heavy I would swap SR for curses to get the extra plague signet proc as well.

Not trying to say power necro is top tier or anything but it was good enough to win games with and pretty fun to play.

Sorry just looked at the build and realized you had no stun breakers.

Im guessing its why people were complaining pretty hard about MATCH MAKING

Ivantreil.3092:

if we want to be honest HOT specs are kind of broken in raids/PvE/ WvW and PvP.

I think that was already clear for everyone, a power creep nerf patch is needed, a heavy one

I just watched WP videos and all he talks about is why balance is so off and how he doesnt want to believe the Anet Dev team cant be this lost.

They nerf mesmer boons because of WvW which messed up raids. I find it funny because before HOT came out a ton of PvP players said there is to many boons with the HOT specs and there were those who were clueless and said L2P.

Here we are years later and Anet still hasnt split WvW/PvE/PvP. They created a expansion with HOT that is really only for farmers and raiders and everyone else seems to be getting frustrated.

Like Mike O’brien said “if your really into WvW then your really into PvE” which im guessing isnt true with the way forums are looking.

Honest answer here,

Mesmer has no other viable builds, killing this build would turn them into warrior S2.

Build diversity is at a low, cant just start killing classes because anet doesnt know how to balance.

BrotherBelial.3094:

NotASmurf.1725:

Ranael.6423:

NotASmurf.1725:

I’m all for variety but as you said, they should be adding more modes to PvP. Problem is Stronghold is PvE.

We need rewards that matter and make people care. Why should anyone in the world care about PvP titles as long as you can get them by grinding PvE on stronghold? It was a kittenty gamemode that had to go.

I do not understand why people use always the label PvE for Stronghold? Is that only coming from NPC? Then are MOBA’s consider PvE games as well? Was GvG in GW1 a PvE game mode because of how defending NPCs (attacking those of the other team) was an important part of the game?

I do not want to start a strong argument but I would like to understand the difference, if there is one.

Literally the best way to win on stronghold is to do nothing but heal the first 5 doorbreakers, kill the guards, make it to the lord room and kill the lord, ignoring any form of PvP. Match is over in 3 minutes and you do nothing but heal and kill NPCs.

It’s not a moba nor GW1 GvG, it’s an abomination.

So remove the ability to heal NPC’s and we are golden? If a team con not take out 5 other players while they waste time healing NPC’s then they where probably not very good at PvP to begin with. I’ve never seen what you talked about happen. I think the problem with stronghold is that it is one map, so it gets old fast, Stronghold should have lunched with 2-3 maps. Same as TDM. Courtyard should not have been the only map. Even conquest gets boring after a while. PvP really needs more game modes, not less.

I dont think you get how bad it was.

So we are a 4-5 man group vs 2-1-1-1 group. We are running 1 rev, 2 eles and a mesmer.

The eles are shout heals and the mesmer is giving quickness and the rev is feeding boons. We just tell the 5th person on our team to follow.

Ok so i have done this with my guild and even against other premades they were not ready for it.

Towards the end of S2 which is when we quit playing stronghold, the other who was a premade of there own similar team comp. I think they ran double mesmer 2 druids and a ele. Either way we both grabbed door breakers and both of us raced towards the lord. They won because they had more dps.

Simply put this was a terrible map. You have to escort the NPC, yet it is near impossible to keep them alive playing a offensive build.

Making it so you cant heal the NPC also means quick burst builds would quickly run to the door breakers and kill them, 15 minute matches all the time. For instance i could run a full trap ranger and a friend could run full trap DH and we would just drop traps near the doors. You cant heal the NPC so they are now dead.

Ill give you another for thing my guild did. We ran 2 eles 1 DH and 2 MM necros. The 2 MM necros went on defense and used rise against the door breakers and the enemy team. We were winning our 2 vs 3/4/5 fights and the 3 people on offense ran straight to lord. When the 2nd gate went down we would run in there and use rise again. We both had around 8 minions up all the time with 28k health and lots of toughness.

Stronghold just doesnt fit with the HOT specs they put out, if we want to be honest HOT specs are kind of broken in raids/PvE/ WvW and PvP.

GladConcept.4650:

Sorry, but Skyhammer is still a terrible map.

agree,

step 1 remove everything that makes sky hammer unique and then put it into ranked que.

Seriously i hate that map and i literally find every other map more enjoyable to play.

this will be hard, the upcoming season of PvP will have no teams.