Guild Wars 2

Balthalzar.6243:

Please tell me game where not buying an expansion DIDN’T put you at a disadvantage.

Hello this IS A MMORPG, EVERY MMORPG has ALWAYS required you to get the expansion to stay relevant.

Pay2Win is when you can get a statistical advantage over someone very quickly with $$$

Pay2Win has almost never been attached to expansions because normally expansions have a level cap. You should treat HoT just like an expansion with a level cap because of masteries and such. There is literally no reason you should scream P2W because there’s not a SINGLE MMORPG ALIVE where you can stay relevant if you don’t buy the expansion.

Stop complaining that “I have to buy HOT to be relevant”. Do you think in any other MMO you could NOT buy the expansion and still be relevant? Nope.

Infact in most other MMOs it increases the level cap.

I dont remember when the average MMORPG gamer became so whiny.
I mean the expansion is like 30$ for this game on DLGamer, super cheap.

You want a P2W game? Go play never-winter or arch age.

I mean i see people complaining that this game is dead, do you honestly think if a MMO doesn’t have WoW levels of population it’s dead? I gurantee you that GW2, FF 14, and Blade & Soul are the TOP 3 most played MMORPG’s right now that aren’t WoW

Solid reasoning, ANet please add Celestial gear in the cash shop. Please add +2000 permanent stat points in the cash shop. Meanwhile, add a instant one-shot skill so I can have an advantage. I will fork over $1000.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Just change the trait to work whenever an ally is downed within 600 radius.

This opens up to a ton of accident griefing.

There was a necro that keep using transfusion to spawn downed players into AoE to intentional cause them to go down.

But what if I get teleported into the AoE of death? This will hurt people more than help them.

Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRAnX8ejMdQXIWFCmhAnIW+BMjHQAoA8+crufXkYQOoGA-TpBCABMcCA8b/BAOCAuXG4iDCAEPAAA

So I always wanted a Axe/axe build. I waited and waited till someone makes a viable axe build. But so far, no one did sadly. So I made my own. So far, I like it.

The playstyle of this build is that you are an unstoppable Berserker. It relies a lot on sustain damage instead of burst damage. CC can’t stop you. Condi can’t tickle you. You stick to targets and kill them. You do not have condi removal, however with the Berserker stance changed to Resistance, you do not need to predict when to use the stance beforehand. You can press it immediately as soon as you see a condi bomb on yourself. I felt that I didn’t need cleansing Ire anymore. This build has so much stability that you don’t need to worry about whirling axe being interrupted. Pulsing Stability from Eternal champ, passive stab proc from last stand, balance stance. Two endure pain to keep you alive. Blinds are not a big problem to me because this build has a lot of multi-hitting. With the removal of plenty of bunkering amulet and build, I can actually do damage.

The weakness of this build is lack of reliable hard CC. There is a shield. You can also equip headbutt, but that is the only (two) CC you’ll get. There is lack of condi removal. Lack of reliable mobility. There is still sword as a gap closer, however you got to switch from axe/axe if you want to chase the thief that is running away. Lack of range weapons. You can’t shoot that ranger on a cliff.

Sharpening Axe is the linchpin of this build. It is impossible to generate adrenaline without this or Furious. I needed adrenaline for Berserk which gives me stability. I didn’t see any traits I really needed other than Warrior sprint, but that is easily replaced with Traveler runes. I didn’t really need Fast hands since there is no weapon swap combo I really wanted to make. Sword/shield is most a gap closing or retreating weapon set.

If you’re interested, please play the build and tell me what you think about it.

Loop.8106:

To the people crying over and over that this game is pay to win, I only have 1 thing to say to you.
Buy the god kitten game. It’s currently 44.99£ on the website. If you can’t afford that, then you probably shouldn’t waste your time playing games anyway, much less spend time on the kittening forums complaining about it.

Arenanet is a company, with employees. As any coorporation with people on a payroll, they need money to come in. You complain about them adding new skins, new mini’s and even a new expansion. Is there no pleasing you? Insatiable kittens.

Rant over.

Your reasoning is solid. ANet should add more advantages into the cash shop. I want to buy +2000 toughness boost with my real money so I can win against players in PvP.

How about a skill where I can one-shot players that don’t spend money on the cash shop? Laser sharks ftw.

I also want to buy better gear for PvP. I want to one shot players. I want players to struggle to bring my health down below 99% if I afk. Can I also buy the instant decap consumable? Also, a teleport anywhere button. I will surely fork over $1000 for those advantages.

Can Core Tyria have some updrafts?

I really want to feel like this.

Instead, I feel too limited and magnetic to the ground.

Uncle Dalty.8327:

style.6173:

More likely that their broken specs got balanced. Bye bye bunker mesmer

OMG drop the bunker mes crap… it was just that crap. but it was the only option for mes and now there aren’t any

I bet you’re the kind of person who cried nerf for Warriors and thief when they have only 1 viable build.

Does this mean that I cannot steal supply if I don’t stomp?

If I cannot steal supply when I don’t stomp. This would never be added because it will encourage people to hate each other. I want to stomp him for the supply but another player grief me by autoattacking him.

Thuggernaut.1250:

I guess one positive is that we can finally ditch Crack Shot and choose Warrior’s Sprint every time now.

I disagree.

The problem with Rifle is that it is harder to accumulate adrenaline. I always need Furious if I want to use a Kill shot build.

Now, I can ditch Furious for Burst Precision or drop arms traitline for something else.

Yashuoa.9527:

You seem to have not understand most of the post.

I cant help it if you cant see the difference between pay to win and an expansion.
Just because both require cash, doesnt have to make them both pay to win.
It has nothing to do with the tag either. They are different concepts. They only thing they have in common is that both cost money, but that doesnt have to make them both pay to win.

You also forgot that expansion gives more advantages over players that don’t buy expansion. I can’t play Chronomancers if I don’t have expansion.

Please be realistic.

You cant expect to have a game this big made into a free download, no monthly fee, access to max lvl, than expect everything to be treated as the full game and expect everything to be balanced and keep running well completely free and complain if it doesnt.

Thats not realistic and ungrateful as well.Try to see Anets point of view.

I should excuse all pay2win mmorpg because they have to pay bills and stuff because….?

Questions.
Also are all expansions in mmorpgs now suddenly pay to win in your eyes?
Dont take pay to win literally.

If I am at a disadvantage when I am pvping against other players just because I didn’t pay a little extra money then it is pay2win. If it is just extra content packs regardless or not I care about. It isn’t pay2win.

In other MMORPG, expansion gives higher levels. So non-expansion buyers do not play with expansion buyers.

Would you rather have a monthly fee and no expansion or free expansions?
Than you cant call it pay to win anymore, but it would cost you more money.
Not what I would want.

ANet doesn’t need to put pay2win advantages in PvP. They made stronghold core for everyone.

Allowing all players to equip elite specs regardless or not if they bought the expansion will make this game less pay2win.

Yashuoa.9527:

I didnt make contradictions, nor silly arguments.
Its just you who thinks so, because you dont understand the post I made and what pay to win actually is.

Expansion is not paid to win. Pay to win is a different paying concept than buying an expansion. The game without the expansion is not the full game anymore.

You know what would be fair too?
As mentioned, a lot of other games have a higher lvl cap in the expansion.

It wouldnt be weird at all if with HoT the lvl cap went to 85 with new spells and would only be reachable with the expansion and that Anet completely ignored how pvp went at 80 for those without the expansion, because the game moved on to HoT.
That is what usually happens in mmorpgs

But Anet is even gonna try to tune down the elite specs a bit and buff the normal specs. Buff up less traits in the non-elite specs and such. Which people without hot will benifit from too. So they are doing their best.

Dont take everything literally.

Its just ungrateful and unrealistic if you can download for free, no monthly fee, no expansion purchased and than expecting that they treat it as the full gw2 game, which it is not anymore.

Also Anet income and such are not silly points either (nor are comparisons with other similar games).

Aparently you want Anet to run everything for free at no income and still expect the game to be in a healthy state and balanced (mmorpgs wont be fully balanced anyway, because of the huge differences between classes and amount of builds and classes. It wasnt balanced before HoT either).

Lets rephrase a few points.
You want balance and the game to run well right?
Yet you can download the non-HoT GW2 for free now (used to be purchased) and you can play at max lvl with it. It costs money to keep the game running, even without an expansion
Creating expansions cost money.
How is it weird that you pay for those services?
WHICH IS NOT the same as pay to win.
That has been explained by many in this thread.
Not their fault that you cant or dont want to grasp it.

Do you rather see a monthly fee of 15$ a month and a free expansion?
They could do that too and get there income that way.
Than you cant take it literally and call it pay to win.
It would cost a lot more though than a one time expansion.
I bet you would prefer no montly fee and a one time purchable expansion.

I have said enough. If you still cant understand it from others and me, than I dont know how to get it through or maybe you are just trolling.

Seems like the only way you cannot see the game being pay2win is if the developers slap a expansion tag on it. Regardless or not when the best upgrades for the classes and advantages have to be bought with real money.

Yashuoa.9527:

runeblade.7514:

Yashuoa.9527:

Pay to win is not an expansion.

Pay to win is stuff like buying a weapon or other gear that gives you an advantage.

If ANet sold skills in the gemstore that is OP, would it be Pay2win?

Yes.
If only the core game existed and no expansion was added.
If you would than just sell individual skills, than it would be pay to win.

However, an expansion is not such a thing.
Not comparable to some individual skills thrown in a gemstore.
It has cost quite some money to bring out the expansion.
That money needs to come back somehow.

You want to download the game for free, play it for free and expect to have equal chances to people with an expansion?
Arenanet is suppose to keep the game running with no income?

You can already play at max lvl without having to buy anything.
You dont have a monthly fee.
Usually the lvl cap goes up with an expansion, which doesnt allow you to play max lvl even without it.
Be glad that didnt happen in guildwars. Than you couldnt even try at max lvl. Which could have been normal too (a small lvl cap increase).
You can even try out max lvl without the elite specs.

You can see the game without the expansion as a very big tryout (way bigger than most mmorpgs). If you want to have access to everything currently, than you simply need to pay once for the expansion. Completely normal.

Expansions are in most big mmorpgs, unlike pay to win.
Different concept.

You are not suppose to download for free + play for free + have everything equal to expansion purchasers for free.

You want everything handed out for free and still expect arenanet to keep the game running well?

Among the big mmorpgs, guild wars is one of the cheapest.
Yet people still complain about having less chances without the expansion. So silly.

If HoT expansion is pay to win, than every single expansion in any game is pay to win (which isnt true)..

In other words, the only way a game can’t be pay2win is if they add some content, which pvpers don’t care about, to the skill packs only purchasable with real money.

Kayberz.5346:

MAN.9046:

By buying the elite specs of HoT you have a significant advantage over core class users, which you obtain by paying $50. If paying money to have an advantage over someone who didn’t(whether it’s an f2p nub or a 3 year sceptical veteran) is not pay2win then what is it?
This isn’t a rhetorical/sarcastic question btw
And before anyone comes up with the good ol’ ad hominem; I got more than enough money to get HoT and choose not to :p the cancer is still there even if i join it

Pay to win would be the ability to KEEP PAYING to get stronger, as it is right now anyone who buys the expansion is on an even playing field, no one is able to pay say an extra $50 to get better stuff then people who already bought the expansion, the expansion is a 1 time payment, a pay to win game would support a continual payment method like limited time buffs or weapons for cash were someone rich will be able to keep dishing out money to keep an advantage over someone who doesnt keep paying

So if I buy Sword of Epic strength from the gemstore and use it in PvP to win games. Then the game isn’t OP because I don’t need to keep paying to beat other players. Is that right?

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Why other classes starts pvp games at 100% of their power, but necromancer starts with 0 life force?

Warriors starts with 0 adrenaline.

Yashuoa.9527:

Pay to win is not an expansion.

Pay to win is stuff like buying a weapon or other gear that gives you an advantage.

If ANet sold skills in the gemstore that is OP, would it be Pay2win?

Winry.5897:

Sorry, this game is called a Massive Multiplayer or a Massive Single Player?

When the game gets a new expansion or there are new zones added. HoT content will be empty and it will be massive singleplayer regardless or not if HoT is rebalanced or not.

The difference is that players can access HoT content even when there are no players around.

Rome.7124:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Yay! Kill it! Kill it with fire! Kill all the Mesmers.

I will have no issue if Anet remove the class from the game and return any items/gold invested in the character back to my bank.

Clearly they are clueless in how to balance this class.

ANet killed warriors but they didn’t refund any items or gold to me. You should not either.

Serophous.9085:

Blackmoon.6837:

I fear you guys are simply reading the title rather than expanding on the points being made.

This isn’t about hardcore versus casual play. Nor is it about catering to solo over group play.

It’s about introducing a system that balances solo & group play equally. You can still have difficulty with such a system, for example; splitting a quest line into three directions on the map – each direction being a different difficulty. So even if people aren’t around to scale the quests up, you’d still have your easy/med/hard etc.

Again, these are broad ideas and require more depth to hash out a proper mechanic. Yet given today’s industry, it really doesn’t seem like a far fetched notion.

HoT, currently, is broken. You could lfg, yet the emphasis is on swapping to meta events only and losing your map exp as a result. Trying to get a chain going for the smaller events is a joke. You either have to lucky by being on at the right time or you’re screwed. That’s not a ‘play it my own way’ kind of deal.

What you forget is, people always take the path of least resistance. If solo starts becoming easier/faster than group, then group dies. So then to balance it out they try a few things like make grouping more rewarding, which makes the other people doing the solo path complain because they don’t get special rewards.

Perhaps they make solo harder then, in which case people complain cause of difficulty.

Not to mention trying to balance so many paths is going to take up more time and resources to just retune content over and over till its right. Sticking to one is easier.

I also don’t want to have something like “normal, hard, and mythic” difficulties in gw2 <.<

However, if there is no solo play and no one is around, then the player can’t complete the content. He will have no choice but to quit. People that played within a few months within launch are lucky because expansion content is bustling with people. There was no problem finding people to help me with getting a skillpoint. Right now, when I visited Auric Basin, I couldn’t find a single person around to help me with a group dynamic event. In the future, the maps will be empty because there will be newer content to go to. It will be even more empty because the HoT content is very difficult to complete without another player around.

A balance is needed. A player all alone isn’t going to wait for another player to play with. He will either get lucky that he finds another player or quit because he couldn’t complete the content.

One thing I hope ANet does is make mobs a little bit more melee friendly.

I don’t mind having to dodge one-shot skills, but the stoneheart keeps charging away and it gets very annoying.

After patch, thieves will be godlike because everyone else is squishy.

WhiteRabbit.6931:

runeblade.7514:

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Warrior isnt that bad acually, ive met this guy ingame who was very successful with it in pvp, think his name was “John Conneer” or something simular.

And this guy sure knew had to play warrior!

How come I didn’t see him in any tournament games?

I think you should ask him that!?

But he was very good at his war, I can tell you that!

Or he wasn’t skilled enough for you to claim that “warrior isn’t that bad.”

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Warrior isnt that bad acually, ive met this guy ingame who was very successful with it in pvp, think his name was “John Conneer” or something simular.

And this guy sure knew had to play warrior!

How come I didn’t see him in any tournament games?

rchu.8945:

Sadrien.3470:

brannigan.9831:

Don’t care really. Thats generally my perferred method of balancing slaughtering an op class/build and driving off the FOTM trash for a development cycle or so and let some other classes/builds see the light of day. Its almost impossible to change classes/builds from OP to just run of the mills strong in one iteration. Smash away i say. Mesmer players are no more special then anyone else. Lots of classes/builds have been “unplayable” for extremely long periods of time. No one cares until it’s there perferred class that might be toward the bottom for a bit.

Mesmers have been completely unplayable except for 2 month periods once a year since launch for the most part. Ele has never not been in the meta, potentially changing now. Nerfs to mesmer, an already underpowered class except as bunkers which were already shaved to not being OP, is completely ridiculous and I pretty much think everyone who supports the nerf just can’t deal with the clone mechanic or is utterly insane. So far though the nerfs didn’t look that bad for shatter. But with thief buffs it’s completely irrelevant anyways because they will dominate the meta for a good while.

Those players that constantly call nerfs to Mesmers (before and after HOT) are the ones that want the class to remain the easy kill for them in sPvP, most of them being thieves.

You cant say the nerf is not bad for shatter, keep in mind that shatter has already been nerfed pre-HOT, remember the mirror blade bounce subtraction that wasnt needed as the the problem was more with PU stealth abuse but Anet is just ignorant as usual.

And there are those players that constantly call nerfs for chronomancers because they are the one who wants to play the core builds competitively and not go into the pay2win route to buy the expansion.

You cant say the nerf is not bad for shatter, keep in mind that shatter has already been nerfed pre-HOT, remember the mirror blade bounce subtraction that wasnt needed as the the problem was more with PU stealth abuse but Anet is just ignorant as usual.

Because shatter was over the top. When mirror blade got nerfed, PU shatter got brought into line and balanced.

Tim.6450:

runeblade.7514:

Tim.6450:

runeblade.7514:

Rym.1469:

runeblade.7514:

flow.6043:

Good idea, makes sense.
Although, pve necros probably wouldn’t be happy to lose the stat bonus. And icds ruin traits, but other than that it’s a solid suggestion.

I suggest moving the stat bonus to Parasitic Contagion.

It will give Pure condi necro more damage + healing. Making it more synergistic.

First off, PC has to heal through Shroud to be any synergistic, but that’s other topic.

Your suggestion would weaken PvE Necro. Condition stat increase has to be located on either Master of Corruption or replace one of two useless adept traits (Chilling Darkness/ Jumping puzzle trait).

How is moving the stat bonus of Lingering curse to parasitic contagion weakening PvE necro?

Because you split extra condition duration on scepter skills from the condition damage stat bonus in 2 traits you can’t take together.

Why would that happen? I didn’t say anywhere in my post to split condition duration from condition damage.

Did you dream it up?

runeblade.7514:

Put the Boon corrupt inside Lingering Curse instead of making it innate. Then give the condi stat boost to Parasitic contagion.

Lingering curses boost the duration of scepter skills, the stat bonus is moved to parasitic contagion a trait in the same tier as lingering curses. So you split the duration from the stat boost. Unless you mean moving the scepter skill duration increases to parasitic contagion as well. Which means we have 2 scepter traits which makes less sense.

No where did I say to split the condi duration out of condi damage. So, you did dream it up and have no idea what you are talking about.

Exciton.8942:

runeblade.7514:

Skullkger.2804:

Serdoc.7261:

Look, Helseth mains Mesmer. His rantings IMO are just a transparent ploy to protect his beloved, nothing more.

Bunker Mesmer is studiply OP right now in PvP, nerf it into oblivion.

And this is why most opinions here are trash for balancing. You want to see no mesmer in high competitive play, well with those changes you won’t. Mesmers themselves didn’t like the bunker memser, Just getting rid of slow quickness rez would’ve perhaps been enough for a first iteration after all that was their kitten job.

More like I want to see all profession in high competitive play equally.

Bunker mesmers are stupidly OP and needs a nerf if I want to see all profession to get into competitive play, or make everything else OP and contribute to the power creep.

Before patch, profession you don’t see: thief, warrior, you rarely see: guardian

After, profession that goes into oblivion: guardian, elementalist, mesmer, warrior.

The number of profession out of high-level play will likely to be the same. All they do is switch from one set of OP specs to another set of OP specs.

Did you play the new patch that hasn’t been unreleased, If so then Where can I download it? The client didn’t download it for me.

Seems like a bug, go report it in the bug section.

Skullkger.2804:

Serdoc.7261:

Look, Helseth mains Mesmer. His rantings IMO are just a transparent ploy to protect his beloved, nothing more.

Bunker Mesmer is studiply OP right now in PvP, nerf it into oblivion.

And this is why most opinions here are trash for balancing. You want to see no mesmer in high competitive play, well with those changes you won’t. Mesmers themselves didn’t like the bunker memser, Just getting rid of slow quickness rez would’ve perhaps been enough for a first iteration after all that was their kitten job.

More like I want to see all profession in high competitive play equally.

Bunker mesmers are stupidly OP and needs a nerf if I want to see all profession to get into competitive play, or make everything else OP and contribute to the power creep.

What is the point of having these threads?

When was the last time ANet changed the cash shop because they feel the cash shop item was too unfair?

Tim.6450:

runeblade.7514:

Rym.1469:

runeblade.7514:

flow.6043:

Good idea, makes sense.
Although, pve necros probably wouldn’t be happy to lose the stat bonus. And icds ruin traits, but other than that it’s a solid suggestion.

I suggest moving the stat bonus to Parasitic Contagion.

It will give Pure condi necro more damage + healing. Making it more synergistic.

First off, PC has to heal through Shroud to be any synergistic, but that’s other topic.

Your suggestion would weaken PvE Necro. Condition stat increase has to be located on either Master of Corruption or replace one of two useless adept traits (Chilling Darkness/ Jumping puzzle trait).

How is moving the stat bonus of Lingering curse to parasitic contagion weakening PvE necro?

Because you split extra condition duration on scepter skills from the condition damage stat bonus in 2 traits you can’t take together.

Why would that happen? I didn’t say anywhere in my post to split condition duration from condition damage.

Did you dream it up?

ReaperJr.5967:

runeblade.7514:

Grimreaper.5370:

Wow, no one said they wanted the game to be who ever shoots first wins,

Ok, then there is no reason to remove passive procs.

Your analogy is flawed and you know it. But whatever, I have no interest trying to convince someone so narrow minded.

Majority of good players agree that passive procs are bad anyway, and that’s good enough for me.

The silent majority of good players agree that passive procs are good. The vocal minority clamors that passive procs are bad. You don’t have to convince me because passive procs are not fine because it keeps the toxic one-shot meta at bay and keeps skill-less gankers from overinflating their ego that they think they’re the best.

Rym.1469:

runeblade.7514:

flow.6043:

Good idea, makes sense.
Although, pve necros probably wouldn’t be happy to lose the stat bonus. And icds ruin traits, but other than that it’s a solid suggestion.

I suggest moving the stat bonus to Parasitic Contagion.

It will give Pure condi necro more damage + healing. Making it more synergistic.

First off, PC has to heal through Shroud to be any synergistic, but that’s other topic.

Your suggestion would weaken PvE Necro. Condition stat increase has to be located on either Master of Corruption or replace one of two useless adept traits (Chilling Darkness/ Jumping puzzle trait).

How is moving the stat bonus of Lingering curse to parasitic contagion weakening PvE necro?

Grimreaper.5370:

Wow, no one said they wanted the game to be who ever shoots first wins,

Ok, then there is no reason to remove passive procs.

Saiyan.1704:

I agree with Reap. A player should be rewarded by reaction timing, not by passive traits procing intermittently. A perfect example is Guardian’s stunbreak + Focused Elite. Proper reaction time guarantees that you’ll never immediately get downed by a coordinated burst.

Soothing Bastion, or any proc with a threshold or rng, shouldn’t be justified by whether or not your toon can outplay it. Point of fact, it’s a passive mechanic that’s not rewarded by the player’s active, reactive, playstyle.

In other words, whoever shoots first wins.

Thank god you’re not the designer.

flow.6043:

Good idea, makes sense.
Although, pve necros probably wouldn’t be happy to lose the stat bonus. And icds ruin traits, but other than that it’s a solid suggestion.

I suggest moving the stat bonus to Parasitic Contagion.

It will give Pure condi necro more damage + healing. Making it more synergistic.

ReaperJr.5967:

runeblade.7514:

Lettuce.2945:

Crinn.7864:

CaptainShrimps.9143:

Crinn.7864:

You talk about skill, so tell me why can the attacker be skilled enough to account for the passives? Revenant’s passives proc at well defined points, if you can’t adjust to that maybe you aren’t as good as you think.

Right now the main problem with Revenant’s Soothing Bastion is the cooldown of 25 seconds. It essentially means you have to kill the Revenant twice within 50 seconds in order to get him down, since each Soothing Bastion proc will heal enough and buy enough time for the Revenant to disengage and fully recover.

Other passives, such as Guardian’s Hunter’s Determination, simply cannot be played around. Either your big CC gets nullified, or you proc it with a smaller CC, which gives the Guardian a bunch of free aegis. The best example of this is, a Thief doesn’t even want to use steal when fighting a Guardian because giving him a free Fragments of Faith is worse for the Thief than landing Steal benefits him. A passive trait made it always undesirable for a Thief to use his profession mechanic…

But those are case-by-case problems. That’s not passive in general. What my point is that passives in general are fine. If you have a problem with a specific class’s traits you should say so rather than throwing out blanket statements.

How is that not passive? You hit a certain hp % when you’re about to get rekt…then get a free shield that heals you for 4K which you can then use again right after for another 4K and pop glint heal thusly fully resetting a fight thanks to a passive % oh kitten moment trait that procs every 25 seconds? You essentially have to kill the rev within 25 seconds but a good rev can just stall by doing what I said above. Then that passive kicks in again…rinse and repeat. Yeah, no. That’s a carry without a doubt.

To illustrate my point even further, I want any rev mains defending this passive thing to duel without it…see how fast you die then.

This is just one example of passive traits carrying. There are numerous other traits on other professions.

He said, That’s not passive in general.

As in, it is not a problem overall. It seems you only have a problem with Soothing Bastion have a low cooldown for immunity. If Soothing Bastion has a 90 second cooldown, then it would not be as much as a problem.

Hence, Passive procs are a case-by-case problem.

I think you are a little confused by ‘passives’ and ‘passive procs’. Passives are like diamond skin, where you have to actively keep your health up to enjoy the benefits. Those are, for the most part, fine. Passive procs on the other hand, like eye for an eye, soothing bastion, elixer s etc, require no active play as they simply proc once you drop beneath a certain hp %. These are not fine.

No, I am not confused. That passive procs are a case-by-case problem because he feels 25 seconds Soothing Bastion is too low. It could be raised to 40 seconds, then the Revenant may not be as immortal to him.

But, I completely disagree with your statement that Passive procs are not fine because how you feel about them is not convincing.

Put the Boon corrupt inside Lingering Curse instead of making it innate. Then give the condi stat boost to Parasitic contagion.

First reason, ANet can put a cooldown easily if it turns out to be overpowered. 1 Boon corrupt every 3 seconds, or 1 boon corrupt every 10 seconds.

Secondly, Necro/reapers would have to give up signet boon corruption trait, Shroud sustain or Reaper shroud in order to have auto attack corrupt. They can’t be corrupt happy all the time. Necros can choose either sustain boon corruption or burst boon corruption. Maybe they want both so they have to give up sustain or chill for it. Either way, Necros will have to give up something.

Lettuce.2945:

Crinn.7864:

CaptainShrimps.9143:

Crinn.7864:

You talk about skill, so tell me why can the attacker be skilled enough to account for the passives? Revenant’s passives proc at well defined points, if you can’t adjust to that maybe you aren’t as good as you think.

Right now the main problem with Revenant’s Soothing Bastion is the cooldown of 25 seconds. It essentially means you have to kill the Revenant twice within 50 seconds in order to get him down, since each Soothing Bastion proc will heal enough and buy enough time for the Revenant to disengage and fully recover.

Other passives, such as Guardian’s Hunter’s Determination, simply cannot be played around. Either your big CC gets nullified, or you proc it with a smaller CC, which gives the Guardian a bunch of free aegis. The best example of this is, a Thief doesn’t even want to use steal when fighting a Guardian because giving him a free Fragments of Faith is worse for the Thief than landing Steal benefits him. A passive trait made it always undesirable for a Thief to use his profession mechanic…

But those are case-by-case problems. That’s not passive in general. What my point is that passives in general are fine. If you have a problem with a specific class’s traits you should say so rather than throwing out blanket statements.

How is that not passive? You hit a certain hp % when you’re about to get rekt…then get a free shield that heals you for 4K which you can then use again right after for another 4K and pop glint heal thusly fully resetting a fight thanks to a passive % oh kitten moment trait that procs every 25 seconds? You essentially have to kill the rev within 25 seconds but a good rev can just stall by doing what I said above. Then that passive kicks in again…rinse and repeat. Yeah, no. That’s a carry without a doubt.

To illustrate my point even further, I want any rev mains defending this passive thing to duel without it…see how fast you die then.

This is just one example of passive traits carrying. There are numerous other traits on other professions.

He said, That’s not passive in general.

As in, it is not a problem overall. It seems you only have a problem with Soothing Bastion have a low cooldown for immunity. If Soothing Bastion has a 90 second cooldown, then it would not be as much as a problem.

Hence, Passive procs are a case-by-case problem.

ReaperJr.5967:

runeblade.7514:

ReaperJr.5967:

runeblade.7514:

ReaperJr.5967:

What? Do you know what active defenses are? Those are wholly sufficient to prevent 1 shotting. All passive procs do are to buy time for active defenses which results in chain defenses aka very high survivability by facerolling. Which are what people are complaining about.

The difference between using 3 defensive skills in a chain vs. 2 defensive skills + 1 passive proc is huge because…?

Because you actually have to react and predict what your opponent is going to do. Not that I condone revenant’s chain defenses but the passives make it worse. Eye for an eye and crystal hibernation are among the worst traits in game in terms of encouraging skill based play.

I don’t need to react and predict to the opponent when I am chaining 3 defensive skills nor if I have a passive proc + chaining 2 defensive skills.

As you said, these people aren’t complaining about reacting, they’re complaining about chain defenses.

No, the point is, both chain defenses and passive procs are an issue.

Passive procs make chaining defenses easier by buying time for players. This is on top of mindless defense chain that can be performed by anyone. We should first remove passive procs that facilitate the ease of chain defenses before working on chain defenses themselves as chain defenses are intricately interwined into gameplay from a design standpoint.

TLDR; Bad design from anet, passive procs are at the forefront. Fix those before working on others.

But it seems to me that you are complaining about passive procs because of chaining defense. After all, I don’t see anything else in your post adding why passive procs is a big problem to you.

On the otherhand, this will be even more toxic.

If both teams are in the bunker meta. No teams will generate points as all three points will remain uncontested for 15 minutes straight.

ReaperJr.5967:

runeblade.7514:

ReaperJr.5967:

What? Do you know what active defenses are? Those are wholly sufficient to prevent 1 shotting. All passive procs do are to buy time for active defenses which results in chain defenses aka very high survivability by facerolling. Which are what people are complaining about.

The difference between using 3 defensive skills in a chain vs. 2 defensive skills + 1 passive proc is huge because…?

Because you actually have to react and predict what your opponent is going to do. Not that I condone revenant’s chain defenses but the passives make it worse. Eye for an eye and crystal hibernation are among the worst traits in game in terms of encouraging skill based play.

I don’t need to react and predict to the opponent when I am chaining 3 defensive skills nor if I have a passive proc + chaining 2 defensive skills.

As you said, these people aren’t complaining about reacting, they’re complaining about chain defenses.

It should not require a trait if added.

Traits should enhance, not be a requirement to use.

ReaperJr.5967:

What? Do you know what active defenses are? Those are wholly sufficient to prevent 1 shotting. All passive procs do are to buy time for active defenses which results in chain defenses aka very high survivability by facerolling. Which are what people are complaining about.

The difference between using 3 defensive skills in a chain vs. 2 defensive skills + 1 passive proc is huge because…?

Malchior.5732:

Stand The Wall.6987:

I have no problem with passives. They buy more time and are annoying, but ultimately they just a stall for a few more secs. The big problem comes when you combine them with defensive trait lines and amulets. With most of these defensive amulets going out the window, the passives should come back in line. The biggest offenders that promote lots of regen are the biggest offenders that should get a bit of a nerf, but not by much. This is an mmo, not an fps. Fights should last for more then a few seconds. If you disagree maybe youre playing the wrong game.

Just because it’s an MMO, doesn’t mean we need passives for good gameplay that doesn’t end in seconds. The problem, however, is that these passives are just there to protect you from messing up and sometimes even reward you for doing stupid things.
Remember Vamp runes? People used them because it defended you from getting bursted down, regardless of your own skill. You went way too far and got punished accordingly? That’s fine, because even if you’re 1v5, the passives will keep you alive for a bit longer, potentially allowing an escape.

Vamp runes were there because the burst meta was too much. People were getting 100-0 and making the game unfun. It always had the invulnerability ever since launch. If passive procs was a big problem, then vampire runes would’ve been nerfed long long ago.

I am going to be the first one to fully completely disagree with this. Most of those traits have a long cooldown.

Passive defensive proc is a second wind. It keeps me from getting ganked from god-knows-where and give me time to realize what is going on. However, because of the long cooldowns, I can’t get another second wind for another gank.

It stops the game from being Gank wars 2: Shoot first to win. With the bunker meta out of the way, passive defensive procs are more necessary otherwise there will be a even more toxic meta where players gets 100 to 0 all the time and then quit.

If defensive passive procs get removed, I can’t wait to hear your complaints about one-shot meta and watch ANet nerf the damage back to the bunker meta. I can’t wait to hear complaints about all builds requiring defensive utilities like warriors is already suffering with stances.

Gaiyeerishima Cat.1082:

Oh to make another note about some details. Suggestions I have are when the duel is over, kicking the loser out and not allowing them to rejoin for 2 minutes, and if the fight takes longer than 3 minutes kicking both players out and not letting them rejoin for two minutes. This would be to ensure that players aren’t left waiting too long to get into a duel.

Dumb idea, just put in dueling.

pepper.6179:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t mind if it is unblockable, but then they need to raise the cooldown to 120 seconds to balance it out.

lol wut

I said, I don’t mind if it is unblockable, but then they need to raise the cooldown to 120 seconds to balance it out.

I don’t mind if it is unblockable, but then they need to raise the cooldown to 120 seconds to balance it out.

Dragon.8762:

Keep in mind, this is just a preview. Not a full list of all the changes.

Yeah, Warriors are missing some tooltips fixes.

MercenaryNote.8506:

If you had listened to Rubi, you would have remembered that she said that these notes are a PREVIEW, not the whole list. Be patient.

Yes op. What you are missing is tooltips from the patch notes.

• Fixed a tooltip that displays Ventari healing numbers incorrectly.

Warrior

• To the Limit had its healing increased by 40%. Other heals similarity had their heal increased by a certain margin. Signet had its HP increased by 20 HP per second. Adrenal Health also has about a 20% increase.
• Some damage increases and some aftercasts removed so you can activate skills quicker.
• Rifle rework: Crackshot no longer grants piercing by default. It will instead apply additional adrenaline per shot. Piercing is now on a few select skills like Volley, and Killshot. Brutal Shot (rifle #4) will now roll you back.
• Berserker – King of Fires – give a fire shield on critical hits with 15s. Using a berserker skill will detonate any fire aura on you, giving 3 stacks of burning.

Locuz.2651:

Well i dont think i agree with you :o

From what I see here is that you weren’t contributing much. You do low damage while you are not holding points.

Your team were carrying the weight while you go all around and pew pew from a far. It is extremely easy to get high amount of score as a Pew pew ranger.

Bunkers do not get as much score yet they are the players that make the game. I rather drop you for the other teammates.