Guild Wars 2

The issue with turrets is their ability to hold a point in conquest mode. I don’t think they will be as much of an issue in stronghold.

brannigan.9831:

Ranger need buffs. Eles and Engineers need to be nerfed. Then game would be fine.

Ranger does NOT need buffs. Wow.

The issue is that ANET still seems to think that rank should play a part in matchmaking. It shouldn’t. New accounts should start at the bottom and need to work their way up.. After that, people should be matched BASED ON THEIR ACTUAL GAME PERFORMANCE.

TheFamster.7806:

I still don’t know why people want the old meta of having 3 rezz classes and 2 dps classes and fighting 1 giant blobfest in mid.

Oh yeah because most of the team running cele is soooo much better. :p

@OP:

I think we all know that the new matchmaking system is a failure. Maybe they will announce a new matchmaking feature for the expansion pack. That new feature will be to give back the old system. That system wasn’t good, but it was definitely better than the current one.

Puck.9612:

I’m reserving judgement until I see it but the description sounds terrible for roamers and open field fighting. I’m worried they are trying to cater to the eotm k-train crowd.

So, let’s see if I understand. The new map is going to be bad for those who like large scale fights. The map is also going to be bad for those who like smaller fights. Who exactly is going to like this map then? Maybe they can buff the defense buffs and everyone who just loves sitting in a tower can do that all day long. There won’t ever be anyone to defend against, but hey, tower sitting is so fun :p

I’m hoping they showed off a PvE map by mistake

PariahX.6970:

I enjoyed WP’s summary video pausing the fly-through of the new map to chat on ideas. Mind you his perspective is more from the tPvP side of things but I think he makes a lot of good points and gets a bit carried away with some of his speculations, just like a lot of others here which is really half of the fun of waiting for new stuffs if you don’t get too obsessed with it.

I am looking forward to seeing more of the map at the Rezzed panel next week before I flip too far out one way or the other. Looks like there are some really cool ideas and possibly some really messy ones so waiting to get a better idea which side got the bigger collection of them.

This is an example of the problem. You have people giving commentary who do not even play WvW. ANET didn’t have a lot of credibility with their WvW ideas and this seems to make things even worse.

Skeletor.9360:

I don’t what about you?

or maybe you are posting in the wrong forum.

Someone tell Toker that he needs the Mohawk back.

The new matchmaking system is a fail. You should be happy if you’ve only had issues the last 2 days.

I think everyone, except ANET, has realized that cele has been OP for a long time. Instead ANET took the easy way out, and tried to change might stacking.

They really need a balance team.

I seriously thought this was a troll thread when I first came in here. I guess the OP is actually serious.

Jski.6180:

Well you should be fighting for objectives open field is fun at all but often pointless unless its for an objective. You do understand wvw is not a death match game right?

You can apologize for ANET all you want, but that doesn’t make this a good map.

The map is definitely a bigkittento anyone who disliked EotM.

Does anyone actually care about the leaderboards? What’s the point of showing individual rankings for a team based game. Now, once they start ranking guilds, that will become more interesting.

Let me summarize the OP

1. Warrior – He thinks shoutbow is weak. Huh?
2. Guardian – He thinks guardian is not viable. I hope the European champion team doesn’t know that! They are running one. DPS guard is good at any tier, not just elite.
3. Thief. No comment. Unless it is a top 10 thief, the class is pretty much garbage at anything higher than mid tier
4. Engineer. No way. It is OP at every level. Lower and mid tiers have the turret engi and upper tiers have the nade spamming rifle engi. OP
5. Ranger. No arguments on that
6. Necro. I don’t really have an issue. At higher levels, it definitely takes more skill than other classes
7. Mesmer. I’m ok with this
8. Ele. Not viable for low end? Are you serious? Everything is viable in low end. The class is broken OP at every level. Only engi is stronger right now.

MyPuppy.8970:

I had one 500/500 not so long ago. Never knew who won/lost, but it was exciting and fun so i guess we all won.

lol. He thinks that one match makes good matchmaking. What’s the expression? Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Fuzzion.2504:

Do not leave TC. They need as much quality roamers as possible.

Unfortunately, there really aren’t very many quality roamers in T1 on any of the servers. It ends up being roamer vs small havoc team pretty quickly. Not fun.

I alt f4 anytime skyhammer comes up.

Henrik.7560:

No. Who wouldn’t swap and re-config the comp when facing multiple engineers?
Gets out the staff ele.

That is true against turret engis.

It is not really a counter against nade spamming engis.

Play an easy AOE spec and then you will be fine.

dd cele ele
rifle cele nade spamming engi
shoutbow

All good classes to play with lag.

Shoutbow by itself it fine.

The issue is that it just benefits from the broken cele amulet. As I’ve said before, the “balance” team really messed up with the last release. For some reason, they thought might stacking was the biggest issue. Fix it.

1. Revert the might changes last patch
2. Remove the ability from ele to stack might so easily
3. Nerf cele amulet

Cele is what is broken in this meta.

We won’t know if it is fun or not until we play. First impressions aren’t always correct. Someone at ANET actually thought skyhammer was fun immediately after they built it.

I’m reserving judgement until I actually experience it.

@OP:

The issue is that you consider EotM a WvW map. Let’s be completely honest… it is a complete failure by the ANET team responsible if that is the goal.

The map itself is brilliant as a PvE map

nekretaal.6485:

Ok, power necromancers are a different beast than condition necromancers, which are a different beast than minion masters.

Condition Necromancers beat: Other condition classes, zerker , elementalists

Condition necromancers lose to: Pew Pew Rangers, Warriors, turret & grenade engineers, PU mesmers, condition removing guardians, all big team fights,.

Power Necromancers beat: turret engineers, non-hammer warriors, elementalists

Power Necromancers lose to: Rangers, grenade engineers, Thiefs, any big team fights, mesmers, hammer or berzerker warriors, anybody with a lot of stuns (and lich is useless against anybody with a ready boon strip)

Minion masters lose to: Anybody with AoE (and almost everybody has AoE)

One change: condi necromancers are a much bigger threat to turret engis than power necros.

Both specs are listed there and have been for the last 6 months or so. They require very different playstyles. No one is forcing you to pick 1.

Sorel.4870:

Lord Kuru.3685:

I don’t think there is “WvW design.” The devs design for PvP and for PvE open world. However that affects WvW gameplay is however that affects WvW gameplay.

As for stability nerf, it’s going to be bad. Looking at past history, we can extrapolate that:

1. It will be balanced for PvP, and so unbalanced for WvW — particularly bigger vs smaller fights.
2. Even if they attempt to balance for WvW (by splitting the behavior of stability in PvP and WvW), they will fail on the first try and it will be 6 months until the next balance patch.
3. And in that next patch, they will try to fix the problem by nerfing other skills — CCs — for example, instead of directly addressing the problem…. creating even more problems.

Do you even pvp bro? You might be misinformed. You could see on PoI that the revenant got 5 stacks of stability out of a really short CD skill. In spvp, no one will waste 5 cc abilities just to get rid of a stab. They’ll just strip it with a thief, mesmer or necro.

So it appears to be a WvW balance change! I’ll remain cautious, but that could be a very good change. It won’t hurt spvp, but in WvW we could see zerg fights being more skill based, and more inclusive. What will you do with your guardians? Stack up to 25 stacks before pushing, preparing for hard cc? Or progressively burn through your stabs one guardian at a time, for a longer duration at the risk of being burst cced?

Some new builds might enter the zerg meta, the infamous GWEN. Venom share thief, to rip off the enemies’ stab with elite venom. Mesmers, to drop them chaos storms on the zerg and daze everyone. Necro fear walls! Slick Shoes engis! The days of spamming one, blindingly following the tag, my-blob-is-bigger-so-I-win are maybe finally over? Real pvp in WvW, can you imagine? Communication will be more important than ever, and the best guilds will finally be taken seriously by these spvp snobs! What a time to be alive.

If all you do is spam 1, you are not very good at zerg fighting. Just saying.

No one wants an engi for zerging. If that is your goal, go necro.

I am perfectly fine leaving doom and energy as-is as long as cele is balanced. That is what is breaking the game.

Wow. There are actually people who still don’t get that cele is over powered?

Scoobaniec.9561:

L2P.

Message Body length must at least be 15.

Tends to be a fairly common response from those who don’t know what else to say.

As for the OP: this isn’t a thief thing. It is about anyone who uses stealth. The question is whether channeled skills should still hit anyone in stealth. My opinion is no.

You guys don’t understand how this works. When making decisions, ANET always asks the question: “Will this make engi even more OP?”

If the answer is yes, then they implement it.
If the answer is no, then it is not implemented.

Balance 101

I think the might nerf was a complete failure. It was an easy fix to a problem that needed a different solution. The better fix at this point would be the following:

1. Revert the might nerf
2. Tone down cele amulet in PvP by 50 points per stat
3. Reduce the ability of ele and engi to stack might on themselves

DeWolfe.2174:

Most of the complaints of EotM appears to come from players with little to no EotM experience. So why would the dev’s listen to them? I have thousands of WvW hours racked up and certainly hundreds in EotM too. Both can be very enjoyable experiences.

For some, they believe WvW should just be zerg fights on flat terrain where Zerg A runs into Zerg B. For others, they believe WvW should be more dynamic with variable terrain, properties, siege, and event objectives. I believe the dev’s know which is going to sustain the game in the long term. They’ll also give a little something for those who just want to zerg fight.

WvW: open field fights, fighting for objectives, roaming.
EotM: harder NPCs, less places for larger fights, mostly uplevels or karma train people.

It is simple and always has been:
1. Go to WvW for fights or hard core action
2. Go to EotM to level an alt, gain karma, or kill random PUGs if you happen to be in a guild that gets wiped a lot in WvW.

They are giving a demo of WvW at Pax east. You only need to wait a couple more weeks. Soon, we will all know whether ANET has learned from the EotM failure or if they try to do the same thing twice.

Jski.6180:

funassistant.6589:

This “zerg” gameplay is the reason why Gw2 is fun. If I wanted roamer fights I’d go play PvP. It’s a 80 man cap per side for a reason.

Outnumbered fights are possible! It’s just bad players that cannot adapt to their circumstances that qq about “the sea of red” (Was not referring to you as a bad player, Phantom). This is a change that bad players will profit from.

You guys do realize they’re making guardians useless compared to warriors?

Anet ruins another game mode that the GvG community have worked their kitten off to get where they are.
They’re throwing away the money, time and dedication the GvG community gave to their gamemode.

With. One. Change.

You seem to know every thing coming out in HoT please tell us more of the updates… or are you just making things up?

You may want to re-read his post instead of getting on your soapbox.

@OP

People should be able to play ranked at any time.

The issue is one of 2 things:
1. You have a low MMR and are getting matched with players who are new
2. Matchmaking is still broken (my guess is this)

I don’t even understand the point of a leaderboard. …. individual rankings for a team based game.

Remove individual rankings, implement team based rankings, and then combine unranked and ranked together.

Shiyo.3578:

Balance is the best it’s ever been imo.

This^

As long as you want to see d/d cele ele, rifle cele engi, and shoutbow cele warrior dominate all the time :p

Sube Dai.8496:

No but they weren’t aiming to change the meta last patch, just ‘shave’ it to bring further balance to the existing meta.

I believe anet likes the current meta because it is arguably the most balanced the game has ever had. But I personally would prefer a zerk vs bunk meta without celestial.

The last balance was a lazy attempt to appeal to people who said the meta was broken and dominated by d/d cele ele, rifle cele engi, and shoutbow. ANET focused on the wrong thing and did nothing to fix the core issue.

Cele should be nerfed hard in PvP.

lol. EotM is not the future of WvW. ANET would have to have their heads stuck in the ground if they don’t realize that EotM failed from a WvW perspective.

In all fairness, they were hugely successful at a karma train creation.

I’m guessing ronpierce is an engi

@OP: Here is the issue. Let’s say they nerf turret engi. That is definitely a broken spec with pug teams. What will happen? Engis will just all use the rifle cele nade spammer build. That is equally broken but IS viable at the top end of play. The point: engis have a lot of issues.

Shiyo.3578:

style.6173:

Before the patch:
d/d cele ele
rifle nade cele engi
shoutbow cele warrior

After the patch:
d/d cele ele
rifle nade cele engi
shoutbow cele warrior

Yes, balance at it’s finest. lol @ the balance team and anyone on the forums who thought might stacking was the issue. Hint: it is the cele amulet.

Also, if you see fewer d/d cele eles, it is because of a few of them are trying staff cele ele. Notice the cele part.

I don’t think it’s the amulet, eng’s are just like 5 classes combined into 1. Has there ever been a meta where ENG’s weren’t the best class in the entire game?

This doesn’t explain cele ele or cele shoutbow.

Also, saying engi’s have always been OP is not correct. Certain specs in all classes are OP at times. It is just that engi has 2 really great PvP specs right now: cele rifle nade spammer, and turret engi (for pug matches)

ronpierce.2760:

style.6173:

What’s the point of complaining about engis? ANET has made them OP for a long time.

First was the decap engi.
Second came the turret engi
Third is the nade spamming rifle engi

They fixed the first, so people moved to the second and the third. They fix the second and everyone will play the third.

It is a broken class. It needs an overhaul.

Those aren’t even firsts. HGH and there were a few other 1 shot builds too.

Good point. I stand corrected.

Before the patch:
d/d cele ele
rifle nade cele engi
shoutbow cele warrior

After the patch:
d/d cele ele
rifle nade cele engi
shoutbow cele warrior

Yes, balance at it’s finest. lol @ the balance team and anyone on the forums who thought might stacking was the issue. Hint: it is the cele amulet.

Also, if you see fewer d/d cele eles, it is because of a few of them are trying staff cele ele. Notice the cele part.

MarkPhilips.5169:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/revenant-the-master-of-the-mists/

Of course it’s a provocation, but i’m pretty sure topic like that will pop up after the HoT Release

Basically It seems a thief initiative mechanic improved and moved to utility instead of weapons skill + unique mechanics.

We don’t see the entire utility and weapons but there are already things really interesting like anti-projectile skill and a new way to manage conditions (it seems really strong).

BTW in general my only hope is linked to Balance Frequency it will be very important after the HoT release to give us a decent general balance.

In general i think this new prof will be a must.

haha. He said balance.

What’s the point of complaining about engis? ANET has made them OP for a long time.

First was the decap engi.
Second came the turret engi
Third is the nade spamming rifle engi

They fixed the first, so people moved to the second and the third. They fix the second and everyone will play the third.

It is a broken class. It needs an overhaul.

So before the last balance patch, most people complained about eles and engis and that they were too OP.

After the best ideas of the balance team were implemented, what do I still see dominating?

Eles, nade spamming engis, turret engis.

Bravo.

It should definitely be a separate queue.

Also, what happens if someone hasn’t purchased the expansion pack and stronghold comes up?

I’d prefer to see it separate at launch and then integrate later if it makes sense.