Guild Wars 2

Harnel.6810:

The charr would though.

They’d even have their own Warband.

Rednik.3809:

An update. Seems like whole argument “numbers are limited by meat supply” is wrong.

That sylvari XD

Konig Des Todes.2086:

We see only one charr farm in-game (the heart in Diessa) who’s a bit of a secluded odd-ball charr; the rest are ranchers. The cub wanting to be a farmer may be wanting to be something unusual.

Being giant-horned-cats I’d say that they probably lean toward meat-eating. Unless those enormous teeth are meant to intimidate the turnips.

Ehecatl.9172:

One asura saying they can eat fruits and vegetables shouldn’t trump all of what we already know. And it isn’t like there aren’t carnivores in our world that can also eat the occasional vegetable when needed.

Do we have any evidence for them being carnivorous? All I know is that they like meat.

Zunnar.8503:

On the topic of the Charr that count as part of “the military” yeah, they all likely do.

Not really. Gladiums are Charr who are not officially part of the military structure (but we can debate how far removed they are or aren’t as some still try to rejoin a warband) but then we get Charr in LA, the Orders and pirate crews who I’m fairly sure are well outside the military hierarchy. In the case of LA we seem to have Charr completely born and raised outside of the military.

I’m just glad I kept all my nice stuff, just in case the wordrobe happened.
Still I can sympathize. Not sure how Anet would be able to implement a proper fix.

Paulie.6215:

I would LOVE an open pvp zone. Ganking pve’ers would make me soooooo happy.

But as a pve-er I’d stay away from said zone, so you guys can all try ganking each other.
Honestly, if the only attraction is: open pvp. I don’t see why people would want to go there. Might just as well wait for Guild Halls, so at least I wouldn’t have to worry about gankers… (yes I do so very much dislike gankers, a passion I acquired leveling in WoW).

Ricky.4706:

it is, but it sort of sounds like you want unfair pvp.

Like in WoW when a group of 80s descend upon your poor lonely level 40 while innocently leveling.

Ringsound.7806:

we could choose PVP/PVE/RP server in SWTOR
so either you could persuade anet start a new PVP server even though there are already low population server, or a big No

Which would break the entire dynamic event system

Aerlen.5326:

So you like want a map that’s PVP only? That’s fine as long as it’s not required for anything PVE and all the toxic gankers can stay there.

And therein lies the problem. You see gankers need someone to gank (preferably people who are unprepared, outnumbered and a lower-level). So having a zone with only gankers would not work.

Stochastic.1398:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Paulie.6215:

Ganking pve’ers would make me soooooo happy.

This is the reason why it’ll never happen.

People who PvE could just not go in it.

If there is no incentive to go into the zone then you’d have a unsatisfying experience as a ganker. So if ANet were to implement it they’d have to put something in there to draw people (like loot) which could be seen as blocking content behind gameplay that some players (rightfully so) might not like.

Algreg.3629:

there are games that reward intelligence, skill and ingeniuty. Then there are games that reward only time spent. GW2 is of the latter kind. And its players prefer it that way. That is basically your answer I think :P

So ganking requires intelligence, skill and ingenuity?
Oh the gankers would think that (because cognitive dissonance), but the rest of us just see people roving in gangs looking to catch people off-guard.

Coldtart.4785:

My experiences with open world ‘pvp’ from WoW:

1. Level 85 player one shots my non 85 and there’s no possible way for me to do anything.

2. Same level as me player tries to attack me and spends the next half hour being corpse camped because the only people that gank are scrubs that can’t handle actual pvp.

Seems we’ve had rather similar experiences.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Oh, hey, it’s this again.

Make it absolutely lootless and not required for any progression at all, and I’ll give it a thumbs up.

I wouldn’t, I would rather that they put dev time on something else.

So would I but since I keep seeing this come up, I might as well just shut up and nod agreement. There’s no point discussing anything on this topic – the people who want it don’t want a discussion. They want to kill people in the manner they are accustomed to in other games, and won’t stop bringing this up until they get it.

Maybe if they get it and realize it sucks not having people to pick on, they’ll go away.

Maybe ANet has a random map lying around that they never implemented that they can just throw into the world. How about the area north of Divinity’s Reach?

I think that was the idea. Those with HoT will be able to get the Guild Hall, those without will still be able to enter. Although apparently they’ll also change the Guild UI to allow you to port in that way.

Bloodlust.3672:

Overall, I want it to look more like an Unreal Engine 4 game—something next gen looking .

Not a fan of the jimquisition?
Well if Jim F. Sterling’s youtube channel has taught me anything it’s not so much the engine so much as what you do with it (i.e. unreal engine can make extremely bad looking games too).

Bloodlust.3672:

GW2 character details do look great, but the environment details are very weak and are a major visual drawback

Which is a issue of texture quality, more so than game engine.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Updating the graphics engine is usually so costly in terms of resources it usually only happens when there’s a new game (and even then, some sequels reuse the previous engine). The game is 3-years old; I expect it to have 2012 graphics, not 2015.

Pretty much this. It not exactly the same as making a new game, but it isn’t too far off.

Zok.4956:

I played ESO and I think the results of the graphics engine are much better than in GW2.

To be expected.
GW2 – August 28, 2012
ESO – April 4, 2014

John.8507:

The game like GW1 was designed for very low system specs, so people with older computers could run it still.

A fair number of MMOs for a while use to follow this approach, rather have a game that works decently on a large number of systems than only on a small number of high end systems.

Ravenmoon.5318:

^ These issues can be avoided entirely by implementing Dx11/12 renderer.

I’m not so sure just importing DX11/12 libraries into the source code and compiling it would in and of itself be any sort of improvement. You’d need to literally go into the engine and modify it to use the newer tech and depending on the architecture is most likely going to be a large undertaking.

Behellagh.1468:

Well there are the spoiled photorealistic players with the hardware that other game engines can render individual dust is rays of sunlight which adds nothing to the actual gameplay. Pretty if you have the time to look at it.

Them be the times we are in.

krixis.9538:

OP do u have the game running at low – mid settings ? that would explain why it wouldn’t look so great.

Screenshots would be nice though, just for demonstrative purposes.

I Am Dansker.7105:

Isn’t it 100% better vision?

Depends on the quality of the new vision and from when you start to count.
If he started with 100% vision (with 2 eyes), lost one eye which is a decrease of 50% but then got his eye back he’d have that 50% back. But if we start from 1 eye than yes the addition of another eye would be 100% (or doubled).

Nutjob.9021:

I got mine, but if I was a person who only logged on every other day and missed them, I’d be ticked.

Yeah. Especially since they updated the animations for both wings (so it’s a little less static).

Miss Lana.5276:

Zackie.8923:

it looks like crap to be honest.

That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to it, but others – like myself – do quite like them.

I think the jumping animation could be changed a bit (you’d think that while falling the wings would catch some air and lift a bit), but yeah otherwise they’re pretty nice.

JohnnyS.1460:

The real question is where are the fiery wings at? There are plenty of fiery armor sets, why no wings?

I’d buy them instantly.
Also shadow / black fog wings. Or ice wings… in fact there’s a lot you could do with wings.

I haven’t been keeping up with DirectX for a while now. But is there really an inherent performance boost just by changing DX9 → DX9+ ?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

ANet’s response to CureForLiving is below

Cute little doggie. See that’s what I mean, dog > cats !

Shinji.2063:

Depending on the study but on average 2 to 7% of people identify as LGBT. So the fact that most games dipict the norm for upwards of 90% of people is shoving it down your throat.

My favorite part about SJWs, the idea that to include the minority one must exclude the majority or norm. It’s like the ‘gender is a social construct’ thing, even though that statement is kinda anti-transexual (because how can someone be born into a body that doesn’t match their gender if gender is a made up thing) and seems to ignore that our concepts of male and female are fairly normative. That is to say, most people born as biologically male have a male gender and like the ladies, and the other way around.
Then again this might just be one of those things I don’t get. Always willing to be informed however!

chemiclord.3978:

The same thing goes with being gay, lesbian, black, asian, hispanic, Muslim, Jewish, or any other “minority” or “lifestyle” you wish to pick here.

Or white. Some of us do live in Africa you know.

Baconplease.1657:

If my prerogative is game balance and that is weird, then what does that make this thread? I’m done now. The hive mind here is like talking to a wall. Goodbye.

I think we should all remember that there are people who engage mechanically (like Bacon) and people who engage narrative-ly (probably not the right word) so priorities will differ.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

People who are trans were born, that is, it’s innate, with a gender identity that doesn’t match their sex and it’s not unreasonable for them to wish to align the two.

Unless gender is socially constructed (I don’t agree but again maybe I just don’t get it). If gender is socially constructed one cannot be born with the right or wrong gender. Again either gender is something you’re born with or it’s something you’re taught. Sorry ever since I was introduced to the concept my Milo Yiannopoulos (and his simply wonderful hair) it’s been something I couldn’t help but mull over.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I though that was called looting (which is illegal) ^^

Depends where in the world you are.
Also laws aren’t a very good foundation for defining moral right and wrong, given the capricious nature of laws and the perceived (unless you’re a moral nihilist like myself) unchanging nature of good, evil, right and wrong.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Some people think that just because their gender and sexual attractions happened “naturally” that anything different is unnatural.

Depends on how we define natural doesn’kitten If we define natural as being somewhat in line with norms, that is to say if normally happens a certain why and thus is the natural way, one would could argue that someone out of the norm would be abnormal or unnatural. After all unnatural doesn’t mean impossible, unnatural things do occur and thus their occurrence doesn’t inherently make them natural.
But there I go, argumentative again.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

So did a lot of doctors back in the day. They said homosexuality was a mental illness. And they were wrong.

Depends again on how we define illness, we could define it as something that causes an abnormality (or we could define it as something harmful but that doesn’t fall in line with my train of argument… so I’ll just ignore it :P ), as homosexuality is not the norm (and thus by definition abnormal) we could in fact deduce that being homosexual was as a result of some sort of mental abnormality or illness.
Ok… I think I’m getting way too into this argumentative thing XD

Bubi.7942:

Correct me if I am wrong, but not having your body produce the right hormones (or more os less of them), being born with extra X or Y chromosomes is considered a sickness

Again depends on our definitions. It certainly is abnormal (which strictly speaking just means not-normal, and appeal to nature and all that).

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Educated in the fields they went to school and got a degree in doesn’t mean they are educated in everything.

Yes that would be an appeal to authority… but also fallacy fallacy. So it’s not a particularly productive line of reasoning either way.

Testudo.4620:

social change as in ending transphobia

Nah that’s silly. I’m all for legal change however. Let people think and feel what they like, as long as there are legal mechanism in place preventing discrimination (i.e. said opinions stay opinions and do not become action or least become punishable actions) I don’t see the problem.

So there’s a guy who used mesmer magic to look like a girl? (oh how I might get flak for the wording of that sentence, still what does it matter what someone else calls you as long as you’re happy with who you are… although that’s a completely different rant for a different time).
What a waste of a good opportunity to introduce the total makeover kit in lore.
Still ANet has been pro-LGBT (and perhaps QIA+? Too many acronyms XD ) for a while now. Well it’s a small change, so it’s now like ANet has gone completely insane-liberal-SJW.

Many.8419:

Modern world is disgusting.

Cultural and ideological conformity have always been a thing. So not really modern at all. At least we’re not killing people for disagreeing anymore (although turning people into pariahs seems to have reemerged). Still the point is not modern at all.

Xdmatt.3958:

Reading this thread one should note that that assorted vile statements, insults, accusations of every shade of bigotry and general belligerence are a-OK so long as “your heart is in the right place”. Which is trademark of progressives at large and SJWs in particular, but what is new under the sun?

I see it more as a free speech thing myself. Words don’t really hurt anyone (excluding calls to action), so let people say what they want and the free-market-of-ideas gets to decide. Besides free-speech is self regulating, someone says something dumb someone else get’s to call it dumb.

Sarevok.2638:

That is NOT it and is a very dangerous viewpoint to take.

But not an unexpected one? Humans are tribal in essence, we tend to naturally ‘other’ each other.

Sogradde.8016:

Well, as long as we’re politically correct, by force if necessary..

Eh not such a big deal I believe. But it might be a slippery slope. I only have problems with it when it starts to degrade the quality of the game in some way (for example how sex-negative attitudes leads to female characters wearing burkas and unable to express and sort of sexuality i.e. a part of everyone’s personality i.e. leading to more shallow characters).

chemiclord.3978:

See… that’s the problem. Your “acceptance” means jack kitten. You don’t get to choose whether it’s acceptable or not. You get to shut your mouth and let other people choose how they want to live their lives.

Your opinion gets to be dismissed without merit, because that is all it deserves.

I think you’re tone is a bit too empassioned. I tend to prefer a passionless logical approach to these things, but that’s just my personal preference. Also, again let people say what they want. Free speech and all that. Alas incantations don’t exist (because magic doesn’t exist) so words have little physical capacity to harm.
However I do agree that my opinions have little importance to how someone else lives their lives, and that people should not be so easily impacted by the words of others (an intrinsic over extrinsic approach to personal happiness and all). Now if people could just stop shouting at me for using the wrong gender-pronouns… cause if my acceptance is meaningless then why should by usages of language suddenly be important… yeah I went to that rant I said I wouldn’t.

AmFah.4389:

Lol this game just wants to be different SOOOO bad. Notice how there isn’t a single straight white male in Destiny’s Edge 2.0.

Broham is straight. Not strictly speaking white though (although he’d pass for one none the less).

chemiclord.3978:

Video games need more like this, more things that make players reflect on themselves and ask if there is something more they can learn… because the answer is almost always “yes.”

Oh… no… no. You see if video games are to be art they should be allowed to express a variety of views and opinions, including horrible and bad ones. The word ‘needs’ should not appear then, because that inherently leads to a ‘must’ which is a the slippery slope down which he lead to Sarkeesian-censorship.
Honestly I’m on the side that says: let the developers make the creative product they wish, irrespective of societal pressures and norms.
Although I guess if we argue ‘games aren’t art’ then we can argue for ‘games should be educational’ (ignoring the ‘games are escapism’ of course) then we can start mandating what should and shouldn’t be included in order to maximise educational value. But I’m included towards the arts argument myself and a bit toward the escapism, neither of which requires accurate, meaningful or honest portrayals of real world things.

Why is a is a dog running away from a cat! I demand this bug be fixed immediately!
Come on dog-lovers don’t let this slight stand! XD

It’s all going to be fine in the end. I hope…
I’ve spent enough time on the forums to have seen this cycle so many times. This one though has really got me down on the community, so I’ll probably be staying off the forums. If anything is going to push me out of GW2 it’s the idea that by playing GW2 I’m associating myself with these whiny, entitled children.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Yet still no reponse.

Have you not noticed how sensitive the community is?
They’re probably on there twenty seventh draft, trying to choice the exact wording that will have the community only slightly throwing a tantrum (cause let’s face it a tantrum there shall be, so it’s degrees were talking about here).

dbill.7483:

nah, it’s gonna be glorious!

Bring a lawn chair, a cooler of beer and some popcorn and watch the fireworks.

With this community? Sure, they’ll complain about any and everything.

People still banging on about this? Eh… go post in one of the merged threads you’re in no way adding anything new

Gray.9041:

papry.8096:

CureForLiving.5360:

papry.8096:

CureForLiving.5360:

Gray.9041:

I’d love to get my facts right.

and when Anet provide some, I’ll make sure to keep them in mind.

for now, we know almost nothing about how many maps we’re getting, so you can’t argue we’re getting to few or too many. you can argue we_might_ have too few or too many, but we still don’t know either way.

Fine. Now if only people wouldn’t state assumptions as fact.

Both side are doing it: it’s tiresome & currently I’m against Anet.

I never said they didn’t.
Also there isn’t two sides.

Okay I may have jump on the wagon there; Sorry for that.
But there is still is no proof how the biomes works with the map except a Anet employee word.

I think they mean two sides to the argument? I don’t think anyone was mentioning the biomes…

That’s what I was referring to.
This article lists some of the major groups http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/18/why-guild-wars-2s-prepurchase-deal-has-the-internet-raging/ . And this doesn’t include the group that’s apathetic about it all, or the the people who have a little of this a little of that but not of that over there.
To boils this down to a us vs them, or to think there is a right and a wrong is silly. In fact it’s kinda a bad thing…
http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/dlp/understanding-depression/all-or-nothing-or-black-and-white-thinking-and-depression/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201203/self-deception-ii-splitting

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged

This post probably belongs in there.

If they’re selling you GW2 you get GW2.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged

Nike.2631:

Blackworm.2167

Something I paid $50 (as everyone else should have to, as per the FAQ) for, with $50 worth of content, has been devalued to $0.
And as you said, the emotional value is separate from the monetary value.
I would like a monetary return.

The base game been devalued to $20 starting almost 2 years ago and to $10 for the last 5 months.

“Free” (with your $50 purchase!!) is the magic moment were rage takes over?

That’s the thing about ‘feelings’ not particularly rational.

papry.8096:

CureForLiving.5360:

Gray.9041:

I’d love to get my facts right.

and when Anet provide some, I’ll make sure to keep them in mind.

for now, we know almost nothing about how many maps we’re getting, so you can’t argue we’re getting to few or too many. you can argue we_might_ have too few or too many, but we still don’t know either way.

Fine. Now if only people wouldn’t state assumptions as fact.

Both side are doing it: it’s tiresome & currently I’m against Anet.

I never said they didn’t.
Also there isn’t two sides.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

CureForLiving.5360:

Evidence? ANet has stated that they have valued the Expansion at $50.

Which is the price of the full game. So if the full game is included along with it for free, that makes the price tag really fishy.

Honest, you are not paying for the full game that we included with this expansion, it just so happens to cost the price of a full game…. right…

That’s not evidence, that speculation.

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Devata.6589 Living Story man/woman hours could easily turn out an expansion every year as they did with GW1. I agree with everything you’ve written.

GW1 was a different game. Cost and difficulty of development has only increased since then not decreased.

False equivalency. Game development of today is not game development of years ago.

lolitsage.2185:

I didn’t realise the Discussion forum became a blogspot

Apparently everyone is… entitled ( :P ) to share their opinions.

Orochimaru.4730:

Seem a lot of those who are supported Anet are throwing around the word Entitled.

Well guess what I am entitled!

Who or what entitled you?
I’m a bit of a moral nihilist, so the concept of fairness isn’t an inherent property of reality to me. So why what grounds are you entitled?

Gray.9041:

I’d love to get my facts right.

and when Anet provide some, I’ll make sure to keep them in mind.

for now, we know almost nothing about how many maps we’re getting, so you can’t argue we’re getting to few or too many. you can argue we_might_ have too few or too many, but we still don’t know either way.

Fine. Now if only people wouldn’t state assumptions as fact.

Many.8419:

You can’t take seriously any anet promoted youtuber/streamer like bogotter or wooden potatoes. They can’t be trusted because they benefit from advertising this game.

nexxe.7081:

A corporate shill. I’ll wait for Angry Joe or TotalBiscuit’s views instead, if they even make a video. They are less biased towards GW2.

darkdomino.9578:

Any youtuber in a partner program is a shill. You cannot trust a word they say, because their income is dictated solely by views.

Daddar.5971:

Paid damage control, sponsored by A-net.

Vix.6730:

Watched the video. Bogotter was fair and honest. Can’t say the same for WoodenPotatoes. He’s All In with Anet.

Aedelric.1287:

Arena Net promoted Youtuber, any opinions can not be considered impartial or trustworthy.

How about addressing their arguments and their their character?

ReaverKane.7598:

His Argument of what he thinks arena net wants is flawed. Big time.
If he was in touch with the community, isntead of the staff, he’d probably read many people saying they’ll just keep playing the base game, specially the ones that bought more recently are all saying they’ll keep with base and buy the expac when the price drops.
So basically you’ll always have people with just the core game with this, but instead of the newbies that still have to play the first part of the content to get to HoT, you have older players who already have played to be at HoT status, and might get frustrated and quit.
So yes, marketing faux pas, low consideration for older players, overall cash grab (towards the older players)
All that rolled into one big debacle.

Well at least you’re doing somewhat better than the rest.

Alexxander.8306:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Frankly I don’t think the argument “other MMO’s are doing it” is a good reason to defend poor customer treatment, and an overpriced product.

Thats because it is a logical fallacy that only a fanboy would attempt.
http://skepdic.com/adpopulum.html

That’s a fallacy too you know?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGBO-WMrlIQ

Gray.9041:

rapthorne.7345:

They will likely release a statement either today or next week

it had better be soon. the longer they leave this, the harder it’ll be to fix. this whole debacle is a good example of where Anet’s preference to keep quiet is backfiring like a cooked mortar shell.

Firstly we need to establish if this is a problem.
Players are complaining on the forums, but has this been reflected in the prepurchase numbers? if the prepurchase is looking good (and who is or isn’t prepurchasing) then there’s no problem except some unhappy players, and there’s always unhappy players.

Someone looking to complain doesn’t really lets facts get in the way.

Unloveableone.6082:

Oxidia.8103:

Agreed. People quickly forget about effort and time that this people put into it. I also have a feeling that people think they all earn 6 figure paychecks while scratching their private parts.

Also people forget it’s their own free will to buy the product or not to buy the product.

I really think people just think that Arenanet is out to steal all of their money and screw them over. Which I really want to know why people think like that about this? If I wanted to scam someone out of money, game development sure as hell wouldn’t be where I wanted to do it at. So much work needed.

And yeah. The mob mentality though seems to take over that sense.

It’s easy to dehumanize a corporation

Unloveableone.6082:

Squee.7829:

Where were you people when everyone was raving about Destiny or Assassin’s Creed: Unity? Or Rage? You were silent then. because people had complaints. And legitimate ones. None of those games were worth the $60 price tag and people were very vocal about it. But no one called those “works of art”. Just terrible games. It’s criticism game designers unfortunately come across.
Of course, I’m not saying “OMG your game suckslol” is the proper response, but if people feel it’s not worth $50, it’s not worth $50. Try harder or drop the price.

Harassing devs(that dont even have anything to do with it either) and acting like this is not criticism.
You don’t want to buy it? Don’t buy it then.
But acting like a spoiled rotten child and harassing people is not the right way to go.

My argument is: complain and move on. Think it’s not worth the money? That’s fine, don’t buy it or wait for more information.
Do some people think ANet doesn’t have stats on how many active players they have? How many new players have pre-purchased? How many veteran players have pre-purchased? Of course they do. So there’s no need to say the same thing over and over and over. And honestly draw the line before you start harassing people for doing there jobs.

Many.8419:

I feel no pity here. This is bussiness. The company failed and company will take responsibility as a whole.

Yeah… no.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Yes, Arenanet are people too, that’s true.
However

I might be wrong, but I stopped at the ‘however’ cause I got this feeling the rest wasn’t going anywhere good.

Kury.8210:

I work at Walmart (and thus kick myself for letting people know, but here I am at the moment).

We don’t have walmarts in my country, so I’m not sure why you’re kicking yourself. Would be interested in knowing if you wouldn’t mind, a little bit off topic yes but never pass a opportunity to learn

Rashy.4165:

Bought the original collector’s edition and got way more than my money’s worth out of it. Bought the Ultimate the second Colin said it was available for purchase (on the stream). Little sad that there wasn’t a physical collector’s edition for HoT, but oh well.

I’d intended to do that since the expansion was announced and I have no regrets.

Most likely there will be. Physical collectors editions are most commonly sold at brick and mortar stores, you don’t particularly like stocking items for products that consumers will only be able to play after a as yet unknown amount of time.
That is to say, once a release date is announced they can start putting together physical editions and start sending them to stores.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

serenke.4806:

You’re not buying the core game twice.

No honest, you are just paying the price of a full game, and the full game is included along with it for free.

Kind of like when you buy a new rearview mirror for your car, and it costs the price of a new car, but you get a free car along with it…. unless you already have a car, but its still the same price.

Evidence? ANet has stated that they have valued the Expansion at $50.

Gotejjeken.1267:

I don’t even. The game at launch was $60. The expansion is nearly $60…and you think the base game being included isn’t having an effect on the price?

Well then ANet is lying to us. But since there is no evidence other than speculation. Well I guess for once I’m not the cynic.

Vayne.8563:

$50 is fine for an expansion. WoW charges that and also a sub. FFXIV charges $40 but also a sub. There’s no reason any AAA title shouldn’t charge $50 for an expansion.

Honestly I think the forum is full of mono-gamers.
Seriously purchased a video game recently? $50 isn’t some horrid unbelievably high price.

Linnael.1069:

The cost doesn’t go away because there are side benefits to be made. If you break it down this is covered by the 2nd interpretation I gave you.

“It’s probably the most likely situation given marketing benefits of generosity to new players and the relative lack of gains when extending those benefits to vets.”

The distinction of your viewpoint is just that you believe that the marketing benefits will bring in enough new players for the additional gem revenue to actually pay off the cost of not selling the base game and loss of gem revenue from ticked off vets.

I would be personally astounded to find this to be true given that Arenanet considers the value of the base game to be less than 20% the current list price of the prepurchase package, although I will concede that if this were the case ANet would be behaving fairly and there is no way to be sure that this is or is not the case.

Let’s assume that the 7 million or so copies of GW2 that was sold actually covered the development of the base game (http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/10/guild-wars-2-selling-well-in-china/), and that the gemstore has been sufficiently covered the running costs. That means there is no need to pay off the base game. As such (assuming the gemstore didn’t provide sufficient revenue for the development of HoT) then they’re only in the red for the development of HoT and as such giving the base game away free doesn’t seem unreasonable as they’re only need to cover the development costs of HoT.

JUN YANG.4328:

i perfer have NCsoft respond for this.
looks at Anet’s staff attitude.

16.6.2015. never forget.

Everyone is being so dramatic.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Vayne.8563:

There’s ample evidence floating around that Anet has been listening to us all along. That doesn’t mean they kowtow to every demand, however. Listening is not obeying. Just ask my wife.

Reading, but not neccessarily listening. There was at least one popular thread asking about character slots to be included. It appears it was willfully ignored.

Willfully ignored? You mean in the 2 or so days since they announced it!? They obviously need to discuss this in house and see what they can and can’t do. It’s not like someone can just flip a switch somewhere and everything is fixed.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

It’s my understanding they recently edited that statement anyway. But, I will admit, I’m surprised at some of the venom, especially the rude and personal attacks, on the boards when a counterargument or counterpoint is voiced.

But I’ll leave that to the moderators.

Everyone’s being exceptionally passive aggressive. No one is directly insulting anyone so it makes moderation difficult.

mstanton.3561:

Lol you’ve been heard….yeh I remember hearing that back when I used to play GW2 stopped by to check out what’s happening..seems to be more smoke an mirrors at more cost. So I’m off again, sure as hell not paying about the same amount for and xpac of a game I lost faith in a year ago.

So disgruntled ex-player. Well at least you’re honest about where you’re coming from.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Vayne.8563:

There’s ample evidence floating around that Anet has been listening to us all along. That doesn’t mean they kowtow to every demand, however. Listening is not obeying. Just ask my wife.

Reading, but not neccessarily listening. There was at least one popular thread asking about character slots to be included. It appears it was willfully ignored.

it wasn’t ignored, there is the option there to buy the expac with a slot, at an inflated price.

Time-line is a bit wonky. He means adding a character slot after the fact (pre-purchase announcement), you’re referring to something before the fact.

Gregori.5807:

Trait debacle says “hi”.

I imagine you’re referring to the NPE? They’re implementing an overhaul next week.

FirebrandFrog.7603:

Before, with the Megaservers and Trait changes, IRL money wasn’t directly involved. They could ignore the complaints and issues safely.

Megaserver complaints usually ignored the benefit, which far outweigh the deficit. As for traits, like next week right? Pretty sure there was a news entry about it. Oh you can complain they took a long time, fair enough, but you can’t complain they just ignored players.

Xenon.4537:

@Drayos.8759

You are completely missing the point of this thread. This isn’t about whether or not we buy the game. This is about when we pay for it. It’s just foolish to pay for digitally distributed content before a release date is given. It’s digital. There’s literally no limit on supply, and no reason to expect it to evaporate at any point.

Pro’s of pre-ordering:

• You got the transaction out of the way. Whoopdy doo.
• You get access to the beta weekends. Some of us don’t care about beta, and can’t bend our schedules to meet with Anet’s beta weekends.

Con’s of pre-ordering:

• You are SOL if you decide you want a refund after it launches, as most policies have a 30 day limit, which will be up by the time it launches.
• You vote with your wallet for more pre-order business practices in the gaming industry. This includes but is not limited to cutting quests, missions, and other content from the game to use as pre-order incentives and retailer exclusives.
• You allow companies to cash in early instead of forcing them to deliver a solid product before getting their money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf5Uj4XIT1Y

I agree with this sentiment. If you want to pre-order it fine. I’ll wait a while myself.

Lampshade.7569:

Can I have your stuff, please?

Why am I always late XD

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Technically, Cure, that’s not correct. ANet told us that the core game was needed to play the expansion. So . . . people bought the core game beforehand. Heck, some bought it days before this release.

And this is a different conversation from veteran-player-entitlement, or is the game worth $50. Yes I agree that Anet needs to do something about the whole FAQ thing. However again, that’s a separate discussion. Unless you were referring to something else I said?

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Oh I’m not one of those people, but that’s one of the arguments made.

But it’s not the same argument. This whole thing is fairly multifaceted.

Talon Silverhawk.3574:

Title of this thread is wrong

“Fan boy Entitlement and Gullability”

Eh… why is everyone so tribal about this. Just because other people don’t agree with you doesn’t mean they’re wrong, or fanboys or gullible. How about engaging with the argument instead of attacking the arguer?

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Drayos.8759:

1) Why do they owe u a Character slot for free? What have u done they makes u so Deserving?..

Your argument makes no sense. I’m a customer. It’s a financial transaction. If I feel I’m being hit up twice for the same product, I’ll think twice.

And I’m a positivist. So yeah, different perspectives I guess.

Hearte.6852:

So the total is easily over $100,000 in lost sales, just from those who have viewed that thread and voted. It’s not a perfect metric

This seems to be the same math as when game publishers say: a 1000 people pirating the game is 1000 less sales.
Those who were never going to buy the expansion and those who never even liked GW2 all that much are all people who would also up vote. In fact those people most likely (thanks to confirmation bias) very very much like and want HoT to not be a good product.

jihm.2315:

what the kitten is wrong with people this days?
the expansion price is good and fair .
simple as that.

Some players are looking back at the GW1 days with rose-tinted glasses.
Some players after mono-gamers and don’t really know that $50 is actually pretty standard for game prices these days.
Some players just want to get he best deal and are fanning the flames in hopes that Anet will lower the price.
Some players don’t feel (in contrast to know) that the game is worth $50.
Some people are simply reinforcing their decision to not buy HoT.

Warcry.1596:

Am I wrong to feel the price is fair? Even though I work 15-20 hours a week at $9.00 an hour.

I think it’s a matter of perspective.
I’d imagine most gamers in the US and EU probably wouldn’t see this as being unreasonable. I’d also wager that most average gamers have gotten use to the $40-70 price tags of modern gaming.

SkiTz.4590:

Maybe to you.
But for veteran players who have been supporting the game for years, its a slap in the face to not AT LEAST give them 1 free character slot to try out the new class…

Which is a different argument.
Is price of the expansion at $50 acceptable? And should veteran players be rewarded for being veteran players?

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m not paying $50 for a living story season with a few extra bells and whistles unless you can somehow prove that it is anything more than that.

No one can except ANet, wait for more information.

The Spiral King.2483:

It has nothing to do with being too expensive to afford.

Not for you, but do remember that there is more than a single conversation going on here.

IIvIIozzie.9250:

The lack of content patches since HoT’s announcement,

This is actually pretty standard practice for expansions in MMOs.

Channel.9402:

After this expansion gw2 core game will be gone since it’s bundle for free in HoT. So basically new player buy the “new gw2” at 50usd while vet player will be buying………!!…

Veteran players have been playing the games for years. That’s what they’ve gotten for the money they paid ANet.

SkiTz.4590:

If you honest to god believe there are 7 million ACTIVE accounts ..woah.. i don’t know what to tell you…

7 million people purchased the original game. So I’m guessing they’re using that figure to indicate possible purchases of HoT.

Aviate.1376:

I will not but hot because anet went in early aceess direction. This is kitten. 50euro for 3 zones and they dont give even one char slot.

Link? We don’t know if there will be 3 zones, we don’t know how many zones there will be besides the 1 we’ve seen so far.

mikeew.8607:

My wife and I will not be pre purchasing or purchasing HOT until the pricing is in line with the content released.

And no one outside of ANet knows how much content there will be. I’m all for caution when it comes to pre-purchasing, however stating that you know how much content there will be is clearly a lie (unless you have insider information).

Gav.1425:

You could always wait 3 years and buy HOT on sale for $10.

Hey you could wait for the next expansion and HoT might even be free

The Dervish.7384:

Now, i cant use my HoM… HoM is not like they promised also. How can i trust Anet again if they release stuff they promised for HoT? So, i dont.. pre-purchase, never.. lol.

Good wait for release and some reviews and feedback.

John.8507:

If they removed the core game from the pre purchase for those who had it then surley they could make it cheaper.

ANet has stated that the core game was a free addition, meaning that it wasn’t used to calculate the price.

Merathkira.7041:

To make sure this doesn’t get completely lost, for those of you who are concerned that the players are not being listened to on the HoT pricing structure issue:

Hey all,
We understand that there are many opinions and suggestions about the game versions and the pre-purchase program. We will continue to read your thoughts and thank you for sharing them.
Edit to add: We will share your input with the team.

From this post by Gaile.

We have been heard and we are not being ignored.

Hope this puts a few minds at ease!

As if ANet ever saying “we’re listening to your feedback” has been able to put players’ minds at ease.

NoTrigger.8396:

you are being ignored. this is the same stuff they always say. “we read your thoughts”.
and now? do you think they will change anything? they wont, because money is all they care about.

how many times have they talked about communicating with their players? how many times have they said they will improve it? and how many times did they actually improve it?

when they started the living story they stopped caring about what their players want and wish for and how good the content is. because they realized how much easy money they can make by releasing lackluster click through content for 20 min playtime every 2 weeks.

Case in point.

DonQuack.9025:

CureForLiving.5360:

ANet has officially stated that the core game is a free addition, and thus was not calculated into the price of the expansion. You’re not paying for the core game twice. This is the perception of some players, but this isn’t supported by ANet.

The expansion ALONE is worth $50?

That’s a separate argument. Is the game worth it? I don’t know.
Does the game actually cost (say) $40 and ANet added another $10 because they decided to bundle the core game in with it? Well according to ANet no this isn’t the case, the expansion is priced at $50 and the core game adds $0 to that.

Lévis.5489:

Regular version at $50 without any character slot for the new class is an insult to any GW1 veterans

This is an Appeal to Tradition. Also offense is never given only ever taken.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I prebought the game, played in the betas, played almost every day, bought gems with real money every month cuz I figured they were worth it, and I still think this expansion is overpriced for what we are getting.

100% agree. I pre ordered the collector’s edition started 3 day early access bought a second account for my wife, and bought gems with cash. I don’t support this direction Anet is headed in and will vote with the only thing they care about, my wallet.

And that is perfectly fine, if you feel that the expansion is not worth your money then don’t purchase it.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

The owner now also wants Customer X to repay for a previous meal

Too bad of course this is not the case. ANet has stated that the core game is a free addition, you are no paying for the core game you are not buying the core game twice. Now if you want to call Anet a liar then just say so, but I’m going off of what Anet has said and they said that this is not what is happening.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Customer X stayed with a business since it opened. He’s bought various menu items in the store and praises the game. Then, one day, the owners push Customer X aside, after he just bought a big meal, to pamper a new customer who may or may not stick around. The owner now also wants Customer X to repay for a previous meal, or a meal he just bought a moment ago, if Customer X wants dessert. And it will cost twice as much if he wants silverwear.

Ok lets use your example. Yesterday I purchased a soda from the store. Today they have special on chips with a free soda. Do I have the right to be angry because I had to purchase the soda yesterday because some customers are getting it free today?

Blackworm.2167:

By your logic, no company should ever have sales because people who bought their product at a higher price would be upset.

The sale is a false equivalence.
A sale is for a product that has already been released, players have already purchased it and played it and presumably gotten their money’s worth from the game.
However since HoT has not been released, and thus no one has played it or gotten any sort of reasonable return on their investment or any sort of benefit from doing so changing the price 2 days after it was announced would not be equivalent to a sale.

DeceiverX.8361:

I think the big issue at hand is that simply put, the content in HoT to our knowledge thus far isn’t worth the $50.00.

Nope that’s a different argument all together.
There are several arguments currently going on: One is that the price is too much. Now a related argument is that the game is more expensive because the core game is being included. A unrelated argument is that veteran players aren’t getting as good a deal as new players so ANet should give them something in order to make it more fair.

DeceiverX.8361:

Why not just sell the complete game for $60.00 like at launch, since after all the content is new, but offer an upgrade for say, $30.00, since the base game as of yesterday according to ANet was worth $40.00

Well because ANet has valued the expansion at $50, not $40. They have decided either that the value is $50 or that to recoup the costs of development the expansion has to be $50, some thing inbetween or completely different. And again this isn’t what OP is arguing about.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

DeceiverX.8361:

I think the big issue at hand is that simply put, the content in HoT to our knowledge thus far isn’t worth the $50.00.

THIS.

Yeah sure. But we should realize that the price is separate from Veterans wan’t to be rewarded for being Veterans.

Tracker.6483:

Been gone over a year and came here to see what’s up with this expansion e-mail I just received.

Doesn’t seem like much for the price, but it’s hard to say without knowing more. I was hoping you guys knew more, but I see it’s a high priced mystery to everyone.

And this leads us perfectly into it’s not worth it argument. If $50 is too much, or you feel not worth it then simply don’t buy it or wait until you get more details. Although by all accounts lets ANet know. However at the least realise that we don’t know about all the content yet. ANet could still reveal more content and make the $50 price tag look more acceptable or they could reveal more content and reinforce the idea that $50 is too much. However at this point we don’t know. Not truly.

nexxe.7081:

What’s irrational about wanting the full information of what you are purchasing?

Very likely this is actually referring to veteran player who have 1000+ hours of entertainment from GW2 wanting ANet to give them extra stuff for playing a game that they paid for, and arguably have already gotten their money’s worth from.

Daddar.5971:

Entitled? Yes, I’m entitled to know what I’m buying before I pay for it. A minimal (?)expansion at a full-game price w/o so much as a character slot thrown in?

I’m entitled to go play other games, whose publishers show me what I’m getting to justify their pricing.

That’s not the entitlement anyone is talking about. The entitlement is: veteran players want to be rewarded for being veteran players.

SirDrygan.1823:

1 region which includes 3 maps (You forgot Drytop and Silverwaste.)

We don’t know actually. This is a valid criticism to the pre-purchase. We simply don’t know how much we’re getting for our money, not truly. We don’t know how many maps were getting, if we’re getting new dungeons or raids or anything else.

lighter.2708:

They are old players, they had 3 years of entertainment, sure, but they also supported the game for 3 years, there are people who sent hundreds if not thousands of dollars in gem.

But one would imagine they got in-game items for those gems. They gave ANet money and they got something in return. It’s not like players have been giving ANet money and getting nothing in return.

lighter.2708:

They can at least expect to be treated equally as the new comers, but not worse….

Relatively speaking. But they’re no being treated badly.

lighter.2708:

and there are also players who bought this game not long ago, because Anet clearly indicated that you need to buy the core game to buy the expansion, says woodenpotato, and now you basically get it for free and for who ever bought the game hearing that you need to buy the core game to buy expansion are screwed, which is a new low in business standard

This is another valid criticism, poor communication on ANet’s side. In think ANet should give players who purchased the game since announcement some sort of a discount of reward. I know ANet probably didn’t intend for this to happen, but some players have purchased the core gaming thinking they need it for the expansion.

Bellizare.5816:

If I never played GW2 again, indeed I got my $ worth.

This has nothing to do with the opinion that the xpac is ridiculously overpriced.

That’s fine. If you think it’s overpriced that ok.
When you complain “well new players are getting the base game. ANet give me free stuff!” then OPs argument comes into affect.

Julie Yann.5379:

The core game had enough content to entertain you for thousands of hours. What we know of HoT is it not even close to having that amount of content (not even 30%) yet we are expected to pay 83% of the price of the original game.

This is another fine criticism. We don’t know enough, so we can’t say if the game is worth $50.

Blackworm.2167:

Also from Google. And as I said above, people are objectively entitled to what they paid for. It’s not an insult.

Please put that in the present context. What are player exactly entitled to in this case? Players who paid for the game got the game.

lighter.2708:

Since when we are arguing about the core game?

Well I’ve been asleep for the last few hours, but yesterday people were complaining: new players are getting the core game free thus veteran players are not being rewarded for being veteran players. This argument is very much separate from the price argument and it is this argument that OP is in fact criticizing, i.e. people who feel that somehow new players getting the core game for free somehow devalues the 3 or so years that they’ve been playing the game. From this some players feel that ANet owes them something extra by merit of them being veteran players.

chemiclord.3978:

Because they’re throwing a bone to lure in new players who would balk at paying two box prices? I honestly don’t care one bit about the “deal” someone else gets. I don’t think it’s “unfair” or “screwing me.” I’m worried about me, and me alone.

That’s a reason stance. After all insult is never given, it’s only ever taken. And just because someone else is being given something extra doesn’t mean you lose anything.

Lord Kuru.3685:

OP’s title is about entitlement yet arguement is about value for the money. In short, he’s just grasping for any argument to justify Anet’s $50.

No he’s actually arguing against the ‘veterans need to be rewarded for being veterans’ not for or against the $50 price tag.

DonQuack.9025:

Darn it… you people would defend alien colonial marines, brink, and sim city.

Well I don’t see the how those cases are related. Alien Colonial Marine and Sim City were both games that were over sold and under-delivered. Now if we were arguing about whether HoT is worth $50 that’s fine, but this thread related to the reaction of veteran players toward new players getting the core game free.

Blackworm.2167:

Under any circumstance, lowering the price would net them more money, regardless of why they should.

Except for those that have already purchased the pre-orders who would be very unhappy. So in essence doing so would swap angry people who haven’t purchased with angry people who have purchased.

BrosefStalin.3475:

The main issue is that people that pre-purchased the core before it was officially released now have to pay full price twice if they want to support the developers for the expansion when a new player gets both for one single purchase price.

ANet has officially stated that the core game is a free addition, and thus was not calculated into the price of the expansion. You’re not paying for the core game twice. This is the perception of some players, but this isn’t supported by ANet.

BrosefStalin.3475:

Many veterans agree with paying, but feel that they are getting a bad deal on the expansion because the full price without any other benefit like extra gems, a character slot because of the new profession, or a little discount for having interest in the game for nearly 3 years and paying in for the core game before official launch while brand new players get both for the current price. I do agree that they should get both, but by not giving some sort of nod to those players that jumped in before launch up until the refund limit to keep all sides happy.

And this is where OPs argument comes in. Veteran players have already gotten their value for money out of the core game. OP views this “veteran players have to be rewarded” as being entitled. I’m not sure exactly how I feel about it, I do feel however that ANet doesn’t really owe veteran players anything since well veteran players paid for the game and they got the game. For me it’s similar to when someone buys the game and a year later it goes on sale and then veteran players complain about that (which is actually a thing that happened on these very forums).

I say don’t pre-order until you know more. I’ve said this several times, pre-order culture is not a good thing in gaming. Too many times people have pre-ordered broken or disappointing games.
Now when ANet has released more information and you can make a informed decision regarding if it is worth it or not then you can decide to purchase / pre-purchased.

Lydell.8713:

Giland.4507:

So what your saying is that because they are reluctant they pay 50 and early adopters pay 100 or close to that. I think that mostly the issue. One might say will you enjoyed the game for so long but I am sure that people would paid 50 3 months ago are not getting refunds. If they do that would be interesting.

Yeah, I could feel the pain of a guy who bought the base game like 2 months ago (I think you’re eligible for a refund under a month.) Now, as I’m clocking over 4000 hours on the core game, I can’t find a reason to complain myself as an early adopter.

My thought as well. If you purchase the game 3 years ago you’ve gotten your money’s worth.

Breaking Bad.6241:

I know, I want to believe the core game is free but at the back of my mind it’s "What if they included the core game for “free” just to increase the price? What if the xpac actually costs 40 and I have to pay 10 more to subsidize the new players’ bundle?"

ANet said the core game is a free addition. Now we can discuss if ANet is lying or not, but at present what we’ve been told is that 50 is the cost of the expansion.

BartsBiggestFan.9740:

I’m not some one that enjoys paying for some thing I already have

You’re not. The core game wasn’t included in the price of the expansion.

sharkswithlazers.7632:

Guys, the fact that GW2 is free to new players is a way to incentivize new people to join an established MMO. That’s normally daunting because nobody wants to be the noob in a world full of vets. They don’t owe everyone a free copy because they elect to give it away to some. Be realistic, how many millions of dollars would they lose by giving away a (normally) 60$ game to each and every person who buys the expansion?

Yeah, I believe the addition of the core game was a honest to goodness attempt on ANet’s part to incentivize new players to give the game a try. Some players might feel hesitant to buy the core game and the expansion if they don’t even know if they’d like the game.

The only lesson ANet should learn from this is the same lesson my grandmother taught me: “Goed doen is gif”, which doesn’t translate very well but basically comes down to “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”. ANet shouldn’t have included the core game, it’s was a nice idea, definitely not something you’d see other MMO developers doing, but in the end of the day “goed doen is gif”.

It’s presently 6:34 AM in ArenaNet-Land. They’re not even at work yet. Give them a few hours.