Guild Wars 2

Cempa.5619:

This is my last attempt, what do you guys think of this WvW build..be honest don’t hold back

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAV6alcmiP3ey5E95Ex2DgmTeyzooHt/wVB-jEyAoLBZqCMRIQZvioxWBLiGreBTVSEV7NKiWtMAMjB-w

No. i have a better one, for pve only, if interested. i didn’t test in wvw/pvp with it…

Daendur.2357:

i was just saying that following a scheme is not always good. you can also be backstabbed the very first second after stealth…
moreover vs a d/p you can’t know how many seconds he is stacking… you can count 1 – 2 but he was jumping in his field

that’s why you can backpedal with your face towards the field

i didn’t realize you could back-stab someone (from the back of the victim in less than 1 second since you stealth), not to mention casting it takes 0.25 ? (speedhack or quickness)
maybe facestab him/her, yes, BS …i don’t think so .. (that’s when he is in front of you)

if he is already in your back and stealths … that’s another story, that’s when you immediately press the dodge button, then turn

the trick is to always face the thief (never turn your back) and interrupt/dodge/block the first few attacks, then it’s much more easy for you to WIN !!?!#?!$%^#
remember to bring a stun breaker for basilisk venom

Daendur.2357:

DanH.5879:

extra: if you eaten a C&D or thief used HiS/blinding powder, count 1,2, dodge

i read something like this multiple times and actually there are someone out there doing it. that’s why i usually stack 2 stealths. a lot of time it goes like this: blining powder – HiS = double stealth …. opponent count 1 – 2 dodge …. “oh no, he’s not appearing” dodge. At this time i have a couple seconds left for a bs or simply i can wait stealth to wear off anche c&d him without fearing a dodge…

Easy counter is easily counterable

so a smart guy, eh ?
enemy: thief uses blinding(or HiS), you got C&D-ed
count 1, 2, dodge
after 1st dodge, start counting again: 1,2, (looking if thief appears so you don’t waste a 2nd dodge) dodge again, remember to run in circles OR backpedaling facing the thief last position, in the worst case you get face-stabbed (1/2 BS damage)
http://coachingsoccerconditioning.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Backpedal-and-Head-Figure-2.gif
don’t count too fast or too slow, you should start the dodge after 1.5-2 seconds since when the thief stealthed (if more than >2.5 seconds pass, the BS is already on it’s way to land, too fast <1.5s and you waste the dodge)

p.s. after the 1st dodge, the enemy thief must re-position and attempt to get to your back for a 2nd attempt, which takes him ~2-3 seconds
it would be great if you have some vigor access/food for faster endurance regen… or blocking skillz
voila

p.s.2. if you don’t know how to count, then…..

it’s the new OP build a-net didn’t nerf
however, it should remain a secret, please don’t share
10x

DanH.5879:

b don’t be a noob to stay still asking for backstabs in the back, if thief is in stealth run in circles, changing direction every time (facestab is 1/2 damage of BS)

extra: if you eaten a C&D or thief used HiS/blinding powder, count 1,2, dodge

and for the haters out there, instead of helping the poor guy, you are flaming me (and maybe want to start a flame war???)
you should look in the mirror and say “i am not better than him”

the number of jerks in this forum is astonishing… (i’m glad that i am not the only one )
the thief is the most easy class to counter, somebody needs a brain transfusion !!!

actually, you reset, he doesn’t because of you know….
then you win because you have 100% hp back

thieves never loose, they’re just taking a small break, you will be killed later….

Jzl.8715:

or make Anet make thief OP.

that will never happen, a-net hates thieves…

Icarus.1728:

Yea, just ran into a thief going stealth through reveal timer, cleansing 9 conditions and gaining full health (from 10% left) from 1 C/D, and stealthing from S/D Cloak & Dagger with NOTHING anywhere near him. Oh, and some how hitting for 8-10k through 2k toughness and 1.2k healing build?!

What the hell?! New exploit I didn’t get the memo on? Oh, and he is 1 shoting Dolyaks, as well as full toughness/healing Guardians.

Come on… why don’t I get filled in on fun exploits like this?!

amen brother, it’s really frustrating for me also to fight them
that stealth mechanism helps them cheat even more

but but…it does not matter, thieves are still OP even if you manage to kill them!
where is my fail/qq bandwagon when you need it most ?
guys?

http://couplesweightlosscompetition.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/bandwagon.jpg

can i haz a bannana in my offhand too ? just for some lolz

DrixTrix.7168:

DanH.5879:

Ghostwolf.9863:

I find this very unfair with Engineers, Guardians, Warriors, Elementalist and Mesmers having the ability to knock multiple people of ledges, ranger 1 target (and I think it’s piercing), necromancers fear multiple ppl off, while thief can’t even drag 1 target off with a rope.

just 1 more proof the devs hate the thief profession…

just a thought, if you want a knockback which i suppose could compliment a p/p build (yeh i know there not optimal but w/e!) they could make scorpion wire with a second chain, you press it twice and instead of pulling the enemy it dazes them and you leap to them using the wire performing a kick which knocks them back X yards.

i added the daze as i can imagine people moving and screwing this up unless its pathed of course, like HS make it an evade as your travelling in the air.

might prove for some interesting defenses with critters and other mobs too.

actually it would be great it it would aim the the head instead at the feet !
maybe you get less “obstructed” and a bit more reliability
we don’t have any pulls or launches except this….and it’s terrible…

they whining about us and asking for nerfs,
we reply with jerky/hateful replies

simple, really
payback, you reap what you sow, as they say… after 9 months of changing my gear and playstyle because of them, i am full, it’s time to stop nerfing us and fix the kitten skillz and other stuff (i want the 25 bleed stack limit, to be removed for example)
it’s the first condition to be removed anyway, be it first or last cond applied (the wiki is a lie)…
however, it would be great in pve…

Ghostwolf.9863:

I find this very unfair with Engineers, Guardians, Warriors, Elementalist and Mesmers having the ability to knock multiple people of ledges, ranger 1 target (and I think it’s piercing), necromancers fear multiple ppl off, while thief can’t even drag 1 target off with a rope.

just 1 more proof the devs hate the thief profession…

Tribio.8531:

DanH.5879:

troll

Exactly..

problem ? ,i am also giving “advice” .. ok ok, maybe it’s not very constructive the 1st one…but every bit is welcome, no ?
can somebody sticky this thread, so i can be on the wall of f(l)ame forever ?

i am very sure others will appreciate the help, also to avoid the same topic 2 months from now ? or make a proper thread: “how to steam roll a thief in wvw”

1. he is looking/asking on the wrong forum for his worrior class, how to play it
2. i still believe the answers i gave, are good (after all, a-net should help their customers!)

a. for a general thief defeat is to CC/launch him when he does SR, because it’s his gtfo card
b. don’t be a noob to stay still asking for backstabs in the back, if thief is in stealth run in circles, changing direction every time (facestab is 1/2 damage of BS)
c. and try to dodge the C&D, succesfully dodging 2 of them WILL make the thief re-think the situation
d. for d/p pros, you can evade/block his HS, staying outside the blind field, doing this, will make him loose 9 ini, which hurts…
e. thieves guild don’t do too much dmg (unless they have fury), they are used as diversion only and as additional dps, i guess they can be ignored since they don’t backstab for 35k !

happy now?

on this forum i am not needed to tell what skill to use on your imba worrior/guard/whatever against a thief, just some general guides

yes, the offtopic was kind of rude, but maybe i am tired of all this whining (i can’t kill thiefs, they are so OP, omg) and then new nerfs come our way….next month same thing….next month same thing….same thing for many months now ? 8?9?10?

why a-net doesn’t put free guides how to kill thieves ?!? make skills on other classes for auto-revealing stealthed targets in a small area ? it’s their fault for not helping the community, not mine.
i will not make anymore suggestions, because my ideas are just being ignored (the PVE condition problem we have, has been here from the beginning of the game, but instead of fixing the 25 bleed limit or do something about it, they are busy nerfing left and right)

and eng is not my main, it’s the 2’nd, and working on the 3rd: “deutsch”

Esta.9645:

So I come to ask you all this: Am I wasting my time leveling my thief, should I reroll guardian? Was it just a freak incident, or do guardians regularly outperform thieves at level 80? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

EDIT: Added a few more details

for PvE you are wasting your time if you don’t have quick reflexes, since you are downed in 1 hit sometimes
for WvW it’s worth it if you like roaming, beein a sheep in the zerg, no, thief is not good

Softspoken.2410:

This is why it behooves you to not blow your entire initiative bar and caltrops in 4 seconds. Learn to share, and push your bleeds onto the stack when it drops to 20, not before.

Yes, having 3 build-heavy builds ‘working together’ is counter productive, and should probably be fixed somehow. But if there’s two people in a group, they ought to be able to coordinate so the stack is permanently above 20 rather than spiking from 12 – 25 as they try and burst their bleeds back on.

i WANT to blow all my ini and trops in 4 seconds ! what’s the problem here?

and if 5 identical condition thieves happen to be in the same party?
2 fight, the other 3 stay and watch ?

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Zenith.7301:

Surbrus.6942:

If you’re a condition Thief that uses LDB, then you need to have a decent amount of power as well. Your strategy is not as one dimensional when you’re build takes this into account.

The very short window on the evade just means that it requires more skill and practice to make the most of it. I use LDB to evade attacks all the time… although if it is an attack I really want to evade I’ll just dodge/Withdraw/Roll for Initiative because its still really hard to evade with LDB… I’ll generally only use LDB as an evade when fighting NPC’s, to get more practice.

I use I D/D condition build on my Thief, LDB is the main sources of damage, and a small amount of my damage mitigation. Having a bit of other offensive stats helps make the build not some one dimensional gimmick build, as I can still throw in some Power based damage.

But yes, Conditions are absolutely terrible in PvE if you are not working alone. When everything is lined up perfectly for the condition burst, I can simultaneously hit the bleed cap on multiple NPC’s by myself… which means that fighting NPC’s with even one additional condition damage user means that there isn’t even going to be much additional damage being dished out… you can’t really improve too much on 25 stacks of bleed and a redundant amount of poison.

As an aside, personally I think they just need to halve the application of bleeds, and double the damage of those bleeds. Basically everyone would be applying half the stacks of bleed but doing the same amount of damage, or some other way of factoring in more condition damage if they can’t simply increase the cap due to their servers exploding from having to keep track of all those numbers or whatever.

Condition damage is terrible even if you removed the stack cap.

I think you people truly don’t understand the math behind scaling and why berserker fares so much better with gear scaling, benefitting from 25 vulnerability stacks, and haste effects.

The damage gap is huge. Condition will never be viable in dungeons in its current state. They either need to nerf berserker crit cap to 62% like spvp to bring it somewhat closer but it’ll still be an issue.

The lack of DPS meters has really done terrible things to this game, enabling people their magical thinking and letting anecdotes run false narratives.

Zerker is also weakened by barriers and protection and toughness, and also zerkers don’t have as much survivability. You only get those big beefy numbers when fighting something with no armor and no boons.

Of course, the damage is pretty good overall. If you run a full condi spec, you’ll get 3 × 20 bleeds with each death blossom. At 1400 condition damage, this does 6720 damage over the duration of those bleeds. At 1800 condition damage (that is, a fully dedicated condi build) this does 7950 damage, and it does this on top of the direct damage.

8K a pop is pretty good, considering that it bypasses protection, and you have 54% more HP than a zerker build while using it.

Seriously. I’ve done the math. Conditions are not horribly underpowered.

dude, are you a noob or something?
pop caltrops, spend all your 15+ini on the mob, see how your bleed stacks are removed by lol damage bleeds from party members (in pve)
should i mention the bounty missions where there is instant 25 bleed on them ?
where is YOUR damage there?

and if you have a fellow thief with the same build you can suck each other finger because damage is severly capped by the 25 stack limit

zerk(direct dmg) have such cap ? NO

somebody there @ a-net is lacking a brain, really
they could put only 1 bleed on LDB, then add 1 poison+ 1torment
same with caltrops 1 bleed stack+ 1 poison or 1 torment

i refuse to use conditions until they can have the same(or almost the same) as a zerker build

did i mention that objects are not affected by them ?

we don’t need one,
after yishis made the OMG I AM SO OP video 1 vs 100
we got nerfed so much… (even in pve)
NO THX, go away please and give up the idea

Excalibur.9748:

Another patch another nerf…right on schedule lmao.

yeah…the devs really hate us :P

wish.1027:

animalmom.1062:

the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.

This is wrong

Heres how I know:
I went to sPVP on my guardian with a friend and did the following. I set the trait “shouts convert 1 condition to a boon” thus making all my shouts remove 1 condition. I then had my thief friend do the following > shoot me once with a pistol (bleed) then CnD me (vulnerabilityx3) then swap to a short bow and drop a poison field on me (poison), then I moved out of the poison field and hit a shout. Bleed was removed, even though 2 other conditions with much longer durations/higher stacks were applied after it.

the wiki is a lie

Malik.6781:

15/30/0/0/25 runes of scolar sigils of air+battle, sigil of fire on short bow

this ^ , actually 10/30/0/0/30 is a bit better with Sleight of Hand (free daze), combine it with an immobilize if needed, get some damage in
charge/activate basilisk, unload rest
it’s the new “I WIN” button, but in 2 steps
use it well before the nerfs come (again)

if you don’t like mug, you can try 0/30/10/0/30 taking infusion of shadow for lower c&d ini

precast c&d, steal … get to 11 ini, BS
do whatever for 2 seconds (AA maybe? dodge? dance?), use basi, c&d, BS no.2,
enjoy hs spam,
profit

Dagins.5163:

Ban of consumables in WvW was so lame and disrespectful for the communty. It’s not like we don’t know what is fun for us.
Now, we have only scorpion wire and charrzooka.

what do you mean ? i can’t eat food in wvw anymore ?!?

well, for a zerker thief, healing and condition dmg are quite useless, you die before you even finish to cast or to press the healing button, and poor heal scaling
and the 50 extra poison damage is nothing compared to 5k+ HS 100% of the time (100% crit chance ftw and 100+ crit dmg)
not to mention the 2 crit dmg you loose via the celestial gear, the loss in power and precision, and toughness was never really good for thief due to aggro magnet and poor damage mitigation via armor

thief doesn’t benefit much from hybrid builds because of the weapon skills
the cluster bomb (and maybe sneak attack/vital shot – p/d trolls) are the winner here,
but the rest of them… no…just no
the scaling direct damage/condition should be 1:1, LDB is way off…

right now i think i am doing more damage than a full party of 5 bunkers
i have enough x-perience not to die/be downed often in cof p1

however, it’s a good change…. but more good for the other classes

yours,
a noob zerker thief

MrFlump.8725:

So we are now the only class in this game who can’t get 1200 range (including traits) due to the recent nerf to cluster-bomb making it 900 range.

So I thought we could post idea’s how ANet could give 1200 range back, also feel free to say if you don’t think we should have it back, but if you do post why.

So here are my 3 ideas.

#1: Rifle
This is the one I see a lot of people want on the Thief, mainly because they want to have a sniper type of weapon. Now I’m not really good at making us skills but if you are feel free to make a skill set and some traits to go with it. This is probable the least ideal of my ideas because it could take some time to create the skill, traits and balancing.

#2: Short bow
Well they must of taken it off cluster-bomb for a reason (I guess they think it was too strong) so I’m not going to say revert the nerf but put 1200 range onto the auto attack of the SB to compensate. Though it isn’t much of a problem with the short bow because its a very mobile weapon thanks to infiltrator arrow allowing you to get into range.

#3: Pistols/Ricochet
The main reason I want pistols to have the range is because of dual pistols being a bit meh right now(how many people do you see using them?!). So my idea was to make the trait Ricochet to also increase the range of pistols. Now you may be wondering why put it on the trait and not just up there normal range to 1200, well D/P, S/P, and P/D are quite mobile already with skills 2 and 3 on D/P and skill 2 on S/P allowing you to get up close and skill 3 on P/D to get you away. Since Ricochet wouldn’t be as viable on these sets people will most likely want to use Dual Pistols as there 1200 ranged weapon meaning both P/P and Ricochet would see more use.

TL;DR post ideas who to give Thief 1200 range again.

longbow for 1200 range actually…i doubt the shortbow will go to 1200 again
ricochet for 1200 range…not bad… bit it would need a different name..

i think you have been drinking too much or you are clueless about the thief and the c&d skill
it should proc at block because it is a “HIT”
did you know you loose the 6 ini swinging at air ? ofc you didn’t

Kolly.9872:

I have the solution!!!
Cloak and Dasgger should not crit anymore like Mug’s current state, also it should apply vulnerability on the thief. Nerf it!!!!

i always knew that skill is too OP

randomfightfan.4091:

is to down someone along the beams in the dark room (but not kill) and take away their torches.

that makes my day every time XD, ahahahahaha

so, the instagib build strikes again !

for leveling yes, conditions might be good and easier to lvl up:
0/0/30/10/30 or 0/0/20/20/30
caltrops, Infiltrator’s Signet if lazy (or Roll for Initiative if choosing -20% tricks recharge), SR
for lvl 80, top end farm, no

Bacon Please.8407:

So I was just wvwing and got hit for a crap ton of damage instantly and died. How is this possible?
I Run a mix of Valk and PVT gear I have 17k Health with 2400 armor. I understand I have low armor but I have NEVER seen a cloak and dagger hit this high, what would his backstab of hit for?

this means my 3k c&d that i do will also be nerfed ?
if you got 11k dmg, then it means on BS you get 35k ?

your equipment was broken, i guess

it’s easier to QQ and whine on the forums, than to learn your OWN class, not to mention the thief one
….it actually requires the use of neurons to learn to activate: endure pain, break stuns, dodge etc.
unfortunately, a LOT of ppl are just plain dumb.
say hello to the gw2 wvw community

Curo.2483:

What is the logic behind this balance? I’ve been repeatedly killed by thieves in 2, yes count them TWO hits in WvW tonight. What is the logic behind giving a class the ability to immobilize me, then 2-shot me, all in the span of less than one second, from stealth. I’m running full level 80 exotic soldier (PVT) gear, 21k hp.

don’t go to wvw man, the thieves there will kill you in 2 seconds ~!!!

Surbrus.6942:

Thieves are OK as they bring utility that may be needed or wanted in some dungeons. However for the most part, if you want an optimum party its going to be 1 Zerker Mes, 1 Knights+Zerker Guardian and 3 Zerker Warriors. Some super easy dungeons like CoF P1 you can replace the Knight+Zerker Guardian for a Zerker Warrior.

Anet hates condition damage builds, gimping them severely (especially multiple condition characters in the same party) , and multiplies the effectiveness of Zerkers. Big slow dumb enemies who have easy to dodge attacks mean that you don’t need a whole lot of survivability as the bulk of incoming damage can simply be avoided by a dodge. Anet also hates control classes, with Defiant shutting down those builds.

That’s just how GW2 PvE works. Sure you can have a fun build, or a fun class, but that’s not optimal and therefore that’s not what the rest of the party wants to see.

Zerk, zerk, zerk.

zerk 4 ever ! , screw the condition builds !

Shemsu.8721:

They “fixed” shadowstep pathing around a month ago, before the balance patch, since then your lucky if shadowsteps work 50% of the time (in wvw, i cant speak for all the spvp maps, havnt played those much lately)

kittens….

the objects are immune to conditions (like ac burrows/cof p1 pedestal/siege), 25 staking limit etc.
and not to mention the remove conditions playes have….

it’s not worth it.

conditions are not as good as direct damage,
don’t do it, imo

sorrow.2364:

If Thief was that weak in PvP, I wonder why most of the top tier teams run one thief.

shadowtrap, i need not to say anything else
it will get nerfed, because it’s a good skill/trap now

just one more reason to nerf d/p
remove the projectile/bullet finisher

iNaddict.8021:

Nah they arent.. the best skilled players will be good with em.. then again give the best skilled players a paperclip as a weapon and they will still kill ppl.. for the average joe. Meleeing headfirst into a group they will die

well that’s true, but because of those PRO ppl, our thief is nerfed almost every patch…

Lumn.2951:

Angst seasoned with bitter tears.

in think it is our tears in pve, and the target’s tears in wvw

zero.5317:

A couple of weeks ago I decided to make a Thief for solo and small-group roaming in WvW and on Monday I hit level 80. In the past 2 days I have spent enough time in WvW to complete both of the monthly achievements. Playing as a Dagger/Pistol Thief it has been great fun tailing enemy zergs, scouting the area for threats and being a nuisance, however when I enter combat I feel rather weak. My survivability is great and if I want to run away or not engage in a fight I’m often able to thanks to the Heartseeker and Black Powder combination but if I choose to stick around my attempts at bringing someone down are embarrassing (nobody has said this to me but I feel that is the case). I can kill up-leveled or bad-squishy players with relative ease but anything else I am not confidant with.

A lot of my inspiration for bringing a Thief to WvW has been from bemeric1 on YouTube (otherwise known as Yishis from the Blackgate server) and my current build is very similar to the one he uses in a couple of videos. I don’t expect to be taking on 2, 3 or 4 people at a time like him but I can barely handle myself around a single player: If he can go 1v2+ with that build and not break a sweat then there must be something I am doing wrong if I struggle with a 1v1. Before anyone says it I have only been doing this for a couple of days and practice makes perfect, I completely agree… However even when I am constantly on the tail of a not-bad-but-not-good player in a 1v1 situation I still don’t have the ability to take them out, or if I do it’s a sloppy kill.

My build is below. Please note I do not have Chilling Sigils, they are a place-holder for other things that will soon replace them. Also note that the critical chance is affected by the Keen Observer and Side Strike traits, so it should be 38%.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.1|8.1g.ha.a.1g.ha|5.1g.ha|1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.8g.0|0.k13.u54b.k19.0|40.2|57.5f.5h.5b.5v|e

I know this is a lot to ask without some gameplay footage (which I intend to get in the near future) but can any of you veteran Thieves give me some tips, guidance or general advice? I know I am doing something(s) wrong and until I can get over this hurdle I can’t see myself getting any better with this profession. I will answer any related questions you guys may have.

Thank you.

there is only 1 answer: zerker 101%, 25/30/0/0/15
since you have perma stealth (invincible), you don’t need defensive points

Where are we going exactly with this class ?
What are roles in a PVE/dungeon/fotm party that we can fulfill for example ?
Will the class have better party support in the future ? Maybe extra range on the venoms?

does anyone offer some answers where this class is heading to ?

so far, it shines 1 vs 1 in the wvw probably, not really good in zerg squad

but i do not think the pve/s(t)pvp should be neglected…i am not sure we shine here…

wvw = mass pvp
why it should be in the pve ??!!

Excalibur.9748:

Better support.

i think your spec will be nerfed in the next patch

the asura have the advantages of being small, so the mobs and players will miss you more !

lordbachus.6091:

As an avid player of all 8 classes i never understood all the complaints about the thief, because they are actually one of the harder classes to play in PvP, because they require a lot of timing and making the right positional changes, on top of that they need to be really aware of their surroundings as they die when someone catches them with CC while fighting someone else. They also need to know the other classes very good because they rely heavilly on prediction of other classes moves and skills.

Sadly thief had some tactical advantages in PvP ( stealth and movement) that are way less important for PvE, but since the priority of Anet is ballancing for the kitten sPvP they really suffer in Openworld PvE and instanced PvE

I totally disagree with thieves being OP, they are quite hard to master, something i am still working on myself. But what works against thieves is that because of stealth they can choose their targets and they allways aim for the weak and wounded firts, with their mobillity and roaming capabilities, they turn up in SPvP and turn the tide of battle in previously equall fights, not because they are OP, but because this is what they are best in, this and escaping with a sliver of life left.

Currently thief and ranger are the weakest classes in my opinion, but taken intoo consideration that in my opinion Ranger is much easier to master this makes thief currently sit this makes an average players thief sit in the lowest place of the foodchain.

dude, the thief is the most OP class of them all 8, even in pve
where you stealth without shame, while the rest of us get downed by mobs

yes, in pve i use the power and the precision ones and SR

the extra 180 power is surprisingly effective the lower power you have (the signet worths more), so it’s not very good for berserker builds
180 with 3200 is one thing
180 with 2400 is another (more efficient)

daros.3407:

,,Nerf wars"

:D
forums: must nerf thief …. moar…..moar we said !…. (thief class gets deleted by a-net)
……forums: we want moar thief nerfs !

a-net employees are head bashing the wall because there is no thief class to nerf anymore and can’t please the customers to nerf that class more