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So you want us to use Deathshroud?

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Allie Murdock

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Ok Defektive.7283, then answer me this. Since it is common in tPvP, you’re suggesting that the opportunity cost of focusing on the necro, as opposed to someone else on the team, or focusing on capping a point/other secondary objective is not great enough?

If so, then let me ask you this: if there was a different class that felt more threatening, would you perform the same maneuver on them instead?

What I’m seeing is – you’re establishing a threat according to your team comp, and focusing on that threat. If a necro didn’t threaten your team because of the comp that you’re running, would you still do that?

How is it not counter, when there is a specific condition that is necessary for the success of that strategy? Maybe I’m not understanding what you’re saying, but it sounds a lot like counter play to me.

You are incorrectly inferring that targets are placed based on their threat level.

Targets are generally chosen based on squishyness / ability to escape the damage train.

In the early game, capturing a point isn’t important, winning the first team fight is.
If you can eliminate key players, or even 1 player quickly enough, you have a fight in your advantage.

Necromancers are PRIME targets, no matter their damage because of their complete inability to mitigate pressure or to tank it. Warriors unfortunately suffer from the same fate, we have no Z axis teleport or invulnerability unless we pop all of our utilities.

Early game:
1) Eliminate the easiest target from stealth.
2) Put the team fight in your advantage early on.
3) Switch targets to the most threatening in order to apply pressure and reduce their damage output.
4) Wipe out the remaining players
5) Capture the point.

Who cares if you’re down 20-30 points in the early game if you can secure a 2 cap immediately after and hold it for 2-5 minutes.

There is no opportunity cost to doing this, only an advantage to gain if your team understands how to use stealth mechanics correctly and can point out a target who can’t avoid your damage.

I see! Thanks for explaining this with such detail!

With all that you’ve said (btw, really appreciate your objective feedback), do you agree that necros need something else to boost their survivability?

So you want us to use Deathshroud?

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Allie do you actually play this game or do you just theory craft?

I’m trying to understand, as well as help others understand, what you are all saying.

This forum posting reveled an interesting problem I think many Devs face when balancing MMOs. Allies disconnect in knowlege between how the gamers are playing and how they think we are playing. Like stated earlier Devs will hop in game a few hours when they can to do some testing ect. but they are often unaware of the current meta because they really arnt playing the game as much as other players (also looking at forums, theorycrafting, streaming).

The example here showing that a Dev didnt even consider a whole team stealthing and killing a necro right off the bat so why would they consider that in balancing. Can we really expect the Devs to first hand experience real competitive Tpvp?

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Let’s not get carried away here. While I do have the fancy ArenaNet emblem, that does not mean that I implement or design or balance the game. I am here trying to get a full understanding of what you are all saying, so that I can relay it all to the people who know this stuff better than I do. Don’t kill the messenger!

So you want us to use Deathshroud?

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Ok Defektive.7283, then answer me this. Since it is common in tPvP, you’re suggesting that the opportunity cost of focusing on the necro, as opposed to someone else on the team, or focusing on capping a point/other secondary objective is not great enough?

If so, then let me ask you this: if there was a different class that felt more threatening, would you perform the same maneuver on them instead?

What I’m seeing is – you’re establishing a threat according to your team comp, and focusing on that threat. If a necro didn’t threaten your team because of the comp that you’re running, would you still do that?

How is it not counter, when there is a specific condition that is necessary for the success of that strategy? Maybe I’m not understanding what you’re saying, but it sounds a lot like counter play to me.

So you want us to use Deathshroud?

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Allie,

Against a good team right in the beginning, we like to stealth ontop of their necro (or mesmer) and just 100-0 them before they can react. This is the scenario they are worried about. You’re inferring combat takes place in a slow fashion in the beginning. People get gibbed pretty quick in the first fight.

Sure, but then we’re just talking about opportunity cost. You’re dedicating a player to finding a necro to take them out, which pulls that player out of the game. Counter play is something that cannot, and should not, be prevented in the game. One could argue that it’s the whole point of competitive PvP, or what sets competitive PvP apart. You analyze, and adjust to the other teams strategies. Am I wrong?

Also, I was not inferring that combat takes place in a slow fashion. Just fyi

So you want us to use Deathshroud?

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Let’s brainstorm some scenarios if we did this, FOR SCIENCE!

If death shroud = survivability, and we allowed necros to have death shroud from the start, then how could that change how necros play? How would this affect certain maps and the balance of those maps? How would this affect the meta? How would this affect other classes?

Also, if we gave necros death shroud, should we give warriors adrenaline? Should we give thieves initiative? Should we give everyone everything they ever wanted?

Ultimately, what I’m looking for is the reasoning, and why you feel this would be a positive change for the game. I’m curious, because it’s easy to say “I want, I want” without saying why.

I think that the reason is quite simple.
Death Shroud is, by far, the most prominent source of survivability of Necromancer, while adrenaline is used only for offensive purposes (I don’t know what you meant with giving initiative on thieves, since they start the match with full initiative anyway :P).

What I’m trying to say is that to build up Life Force you are supposed to survive but, if you want to survive, you’d probably want to use Death Shroud, which is based on Life Force, which is what you want to survive for.
It is a vicious circle.

About adrenaline it is different. Adrenaline is solely for offensive purposes. You hit your enemy, you build adrenaline and then unleakittens destructive power :P

Sure sure, but if we gave you life force at the beginning of the match, how would that help you when you’re in battle? What I mean is, by the time you get into combat, have used a fear or two, have used some life steal, other life-force producing skills, etc., do you not have the life force you need to try and survive? Wouldn’t that mean you’d actually have a surplus of life force?

Don’t forget that you’re also doing tons of damage while you’re casting all those abilities. Is it really balanced to give you survivability AND glass-cannon damage all at once?

So you want us to use Deathshroud?

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Batmang.5421, I think it is in everyones best interest that all players consider the implications of what they are saying when they say it, regardless of their status in the scene.

mordran.4750, I appreciate your feedback, and understand your feelings. While I’m not entirely happy with the sense of entitlement I’m getting from your post (I could be completely wrong about that – internet makes it hard to read people, so sorry if I am), I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. If you have any specific ideas as to how you would like to see this, I’m all ears. I will say that information on design philosophy with patch notes is something we have discussed internally, and something we do want to do eventually.

Thanks for the feedback!

So you want us to use Deathshroud?

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Let’s brainstorm some scenarios if we did this, FOR SCIENCE!

If death shroud = survivability, and we allowed necros to have death shroud from the start, then how could that change how necros play? How would this affect certain maps and the balance of those maps? How would this affect the meta? How would this affect other classes?

Also, if we gave necros death shroud, should we give warriors adrenaline? Should we give thieves initiative? Should we give everyone everything they ever wanted?

Ultimately, what I’m looking for is the reasoning, and why you feel this would be a positive change for the game. I’m curious, because it’s easy to say “I want, I want” without saying why.

I wrote GW2 Balance Manifesto

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2. Consider the creative mind of the playerbase.
Sometimes, there are really good builds that are not discovered for months on end. This is affected by our current playerbase, as well as a revolving meta.
This is not meant as a slight, but the truth is that sometimes things are changing so quickly that you guys just don’t have time to explore new builds and find that one gem that has escaped others.
3. Allow previous changes to settle.
This ties in to the previous two listed. The balance changes we make are very deliberate and calculated. This means that we need to give you guys time to find the gems that we have put in the game, and then allow the meta to adapt to your creative mind.

Sadly the majority of the player-base does not want to adapt, they find a build and that is it, they want to run with that particular build over and over again , as soon as they lose to a counter build..they’ll come to complain on the forum, while maybe using a different set up, runes, utilities they would be perfectly able to beat that counter build.
To put it simply not everybody follow a strategical approach, the majority only wish for “a build to rule them all” .

Aww, that’s not fair! I think a little more credit is due. Consider this though: the players that spend their time arguing on the forums are maybe not the ones spending all their time in the game trying to find that innovative build. Not saying that’s always the case, but it’s yet another thing we have to consider. The amount of active participants on these forums is actually an extremely low percentage of our playerbase. That’s not to say we ignore them.

I wrote GW2 Balance Manifesto

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We wanted to tease you guys for a little longer.

It’s coming! Soon! In the (near) future! I can’t say too much!

What was the other one?

Seriously though: it’s not far off. We had a little hiccup that was corrected, but it’s on it’s way.

I wrote GW2 Balance Manifesto

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leman.7682, thank you for your constructive feedback! The way you analyze AoE/condi/boons is extremely helpful.

As others have already pointed out, we have to be delicate about some of these changes. I know it can be frustrating for you guys, because it feels like changes are coming slowly at times, but please understand that a bad balance patch that is rushed is not a good balance patch. Balance is an extremely important aspect of the game, which is why we can’t just rush changes without allowing the meta to adapt.

There are so many things to consider when balancing a game, so I would like to list out some examples so that you understand the depth here, and why we go at the pace that we go out.

1. Consider the current meta.

  • We play the live game for several hours a week on our off time. This means that after 9 hours of work in the office, we go home, and we play the game (which is essentially more work, as we are taking that time to analyze balance and the meta). I know that playing a game sounds fun to those of you not in the industry, but when you’re analyzing it and trying to determine if things need to be changed, it’s not just a casual-fun kind of situation. Please try to consider this, and think about how you would feel if you dedicated most of your time to something that people constantly bash.
  • We read your feedback. Be it on the forums, or in the game. Most of our devs will discuss balance with players in the game.

2. Consider the creative mind of the playerbase.

  • Sometimes, there are really good builds that are not discovered for months on end. This is affected by our current playerbase, as well as a revolving meta.
  • This is not meant as a slight, but the truth is that sometimes things are changing so quickly that you guys just don’t have time to explore new builds and find that one gem that has escaped others.

3. Allow previous changes to settle.

  • This ties in to the previous two listed. The balance changes we make are very deliberate and calculated. This means that we need to give you guys time to find the gems that we have put in the game, and then allow the meta to adapt to your creative mind.

edit: hit post reply too soon

4. PvE

  • Yes, I know many of you have a gripe with this. However, we have to consider all aspects of the game when balancing. We can’t just suddenly split all the skills in the game. Also, splitting skills can be really jarring, and a huge barrier to entry for new players to join us in PvP land.

5. The game should be fun.

  • I know this goes without saying.

I will put this in uber formatting awesomeness for emphasis, because I’m sure some of you will miss it. Please understand that this only scratches the surface, and is not everything we think about when balancing the game.

Ps. this is what happens when you ask for transparency. Allie writes an essay during her lunch hour xD

(edited by Allie Murdock.8152)

[UPDATE] ArenaNet's first Guild Wars 2 *cash* LAN tournament!

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Not every match will be live streamed. We will have matches in separate arenas.

Mist League will be covering the Qualifiers, but my guess is that players will not be allowed to swap classes during the game (you should be ready for play when you enter a game).

Why doesn't Anet bring in top players?

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Posting patch notes is well and good except for the fact that any feedback on changes is just theorycrafting, and not supported by actual play.

edit: I didn’t add this because it was already mentioned in this thread, but I will say it again in case you forgot – we do have ways to get proper, supported feedback on changes.

[UPDATE] ArenaNet's first Guild Wars 2 *cash* LAN tournament!

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[UPDATE] ArenaNet's first Guild Wars 2 *cash* LAN tournament!

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Update:

We will not be able to open registration this week. We encountered some technical difficulties, and feel that it is now too late to open them as players in Europe will have likely gone to bed.

With that said, we will be posting on Monday with all of the information you have been waiting for, along with instructions on how to register.

Thanks, and sorry for any inconvenience!

Legendary Particles! lol!

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I believe Jonathan Sharp has mentioned this in the past, but I will repeat it in case you missed it. We are actually working on toning down skill particle effects.

What ANet does Right.

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We can’t prevent players from leaving, but we do look at their feedback. We do the best we can to make as many people happy as we can as often as we can. What we won’t do is get in every “I’m quitting this game” thread and beg players to stay. I will say that in my experience, constructive feedback doesn’t usually start with “!@#$ this game, I’m quitting.”

Yes, we are human. We also have processes here and can’t just knee-jerk implement if one player decides to take a break or leave completely.

That said, I will reiterate that we do look at that feedback, and we don’t (strangely enough) want players to leave.

Thank you Anet...

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Assuming this isn’t sarcastic/troll… No, thank you!

It really means a lot to have players like you to come and encourage us. Obviously this goes without saying; we are human beings. We put our heart and soul into this work, and to have the support from you guys helps so much.

I know there is an internet (text) wall between us, but there is a face, a personality, a player behind this post, and every other post from us. We’re a family of incredible hard-working people.

Yeah yeah, it’s sappy, but imo it just goes to show how awesome our community is.

<3

Pax Prime and Guild Wars 2

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I think “major” is a relative term. We will have some changes to help this tournament run smoothly, and to give you guys options when selecting your team comp.

I hope Skyhammer comes back to tPvP

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So ANet agrees Skyhammer is not a tPvP map.

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Oh hey, look at that… in pleasing some players, others are disappointed! I hope you are all taking notes.

While Skyhammer is not currently in the tournament rotation, we are open to it in the future. Until then, there have been some great community events cropping up where players who do love the map can enjoy it. Here’s some examples:

If you guys would like to play more Skyhammer, we encourage you to participate or coordinate an event of your own! Maybe we’ll even come make an appearance.

(edited by Allie Murdock.8152)

Pax Prime and Guild Wars 2

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So, I already posted this in the sticky topic, but in case you guys didn’t see it I’m copying it here:

Hey all,

After the announcement of our Guild Wars 2 Invitational and Regional Qualifying Tournaments went live last week, we saw a number of concerns from players about the restrictions we have in place. While we cannot change some of these restrictions, we have been working to expand allowable regions; we have determined that we can allow additional countries in Europe to compete in the Guild Wars 2 Invitational and Regional Qualifying Tournaments. This means that players in the following countries are now eligible to participate: European Union as well as Iceland, Montenegro, Norway, Serbia, Switzerland, and Turkey.

At this time, we are not able to change the age restriction due to other limitations. We hope to expand eligibility for future tournaments.

Thanks for the support!

[UPDATE] ArenaNet's first Guild Wars 2 *cash* LAN tournament!

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Hey all,

After the announcement of our Guild Wars 2 Invitational and Regional Qualifying Tournaments went live last week, we saw a number of concerns from players about the restrictions we have in place. While we cannot change some of these restrictions, we have been working to expand allowable regions; we have determined that we can allow additional countries in Europe to compete in the Guild Wars 2 Invitational and Regional Qualifying Tournaments. This means that players in the following countries are now eligible to participate: European Union as well as Iceland, Montenegro, Norway, Serbia, Switzerland, and Turkey.

At this time, we are not able to change the age restriction due to other limitations. We hope to expand eligibility for future tournaments.

Thanks for the support!

/resign

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Hey Smile.9284, could you change the title of this thread to something that is a bit more descriptive? Maybe “Adding a /resign command” or something like that?

I’m passing this on to the PvP team, but don’t want them to think this is just another “I’m quitting GW2” thread.

Thanks for the feedback!

Pax Prime and Guild Wars 2

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We’re trying to work around the dates so that teams have time to adjust to changes before they have to play.

[UPDATE] ArenaNet's first Guild Wars 2 *cash* LAN tournament!

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https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-guild-wars-2-invitational-and-regional-qualifying-tournaments/

Hey everyone!

We’re so excited to announce our first ever Guild Wars 2 invitational and regional qualifying tournaments with MMORPG.com and Mist League.

We’ll have more details next week as well as open up registration, so form your teams now and be ready!

For those who think AOE dmg is a problem

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Masternewbz.4953, I said this in your other thread, but here it is again. You should watch this. http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/c/2517953

I’m not going to comment on the AOE stuff right now, as I would like to continue reading your feedback.

Thanks all

Here is why you cant hear newbies for balance

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Hey, you should watch this! http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/c/2517953

Why so much Skyhammer hate?

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No knee-jerks here, just trying to get a feel for things! Thanks!

Why doesn't Anet bring in top players?

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Aww, that’s not fair. We play the game ourselves, and are present for most tournaments that are being held. What you cut out of my post was that we have to be careful about balance, so I can see why you might think that things never change.

If you want to elaborate on that though, you’re welcome to! Thanks for the feedback!

Why so much Skyhammer hate?

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Ok, that’s fair! Do you have any suggestions then, to maybe change the map a little to make up for classes that might not be as good at CC?

Someone mentioned making it harder, but not impossible, to knock people off the edge. Would something like that make you feel better about sticking to your class?

This is great feedback, btw. We really appreciate the constructive nature of these threads.

Why so much Skyhammer hate?

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Med.6150, great points! To piggyback a little on what kirito.4138 said, are you also fine with having every map be a conquest map? Or do you think that new game modes would/should not require respecing as well?

I guesss what I’m getting at is, what is it about changing your spec that you do not like? Is it just having to learn how to play a different spec, or is it the idea of having to click all those buttons and change your gear around (ie helped with templates)?

Objective Skyhammer Feedback Goes Here

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Hey Jesiah.2457, thanks for the feedback! Just thought I would point out that petitions are not permitted on the forums. <— Link to the CoC that you agreed to when entering. While we value your feedback, we ask that everyone follow the CoC.

Here’s a quote from it:
“Do not post petitions, “I demand an answer” threads, conspiracy threads, or comments about circumventing the rules.”

Thanks!

Why so much Skyhammer hate?

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What I was trying to gauge by asking the template question was whether or not folks are open to changing their build if it was more convenient for them or if it was a matter of them only wanting to play one build for eternity. I can see that it’s a mix of both, now.

The reason why the Cannon control room is small is because the cannon itself is powerful so we didn’t want to make it easier for players to dominate the cannon and continuously hammer those on the field with no consequence. With that in mind, do you still feel the space is too small? Also, with the small space in mind, do you still feel that the shots should be dodge-able?

Are you guys saying that you would prefer to have a less powerful cannon that is easier to defend?

Why doesn't Anet bring in top players?

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For threads that deal with bugs/glitches and similar problems it would definitely be helpful, since you’re kinda left in the dark if the thread does not get any replies.
It’s impossible to know if the thread has been seen by a moderator or developer, or if it slipped to page four with rocket speed.

Fair enough!

edit:
Roy – That is a very reasonable and respectable approach, one that I fear not many would have.

Why so much Skyhammer hate?

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Keep discussing, but I’m curious: Would having templates alleviate the issue of not wanting to respec for certain maps?

We do see teams shift their comps around for certain maps (and it seems to be very effective), would this not be along the same lines?

Keep the feedback coming, this is great!

Objective Skyhammer Feedback Goes Here

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Love it! The discussions about Skyhammer have been great so far.

Why doesn't Anet bring in top players?

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Interesting idea, RoyHarmon.5398, but would that really satisfy the hope to have your suggestions implemented? Wouldn’t it then turn into “devs hit the check mark but they didn’t understand or implement” kind of thing? Maybe there is a middle ground, though.

Why doesn't Anet bring in top players?

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Don’t get sappy on me, guys.

Ah hell, we <3 you all!

Why doesn't Anet bring in top players?

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Well, the devs could sit around and reply to all your threads, or they could implement some of the changes you’re hoping for. We really appreciate all of the feedback, and that’s why I come on here to remind you that we’re still here.

We just gave you guys a huge balance patch, so does it make sense that in the time leading up to it and a while afterwards (monitoring PvP meta-game as it develops as well as other areas of the game) we can’t be as present on the forums?

Also, we can’t just make instant changes when an issue of balance comes up. One change can affect the entire game, so we have to be very calculated. Knee-jerk reactions can actually do more harm than good, so we have to be choosy about how we handle these things. This has mostly been covered when we say things like “we don’t want to whack-a-mole balance.”

That’s not to say that we’re not going to make changes. There is just a lot to game development than meets the eye.

You guys have been so incredibly helpful with your constructive feedback, so keep it coming!

Why doesn't Anet bring in top players?

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Powerr, like every other person at this company, worked hard to get his job here and it is well deserved. No, we did not say “he’s the number 1 player, HIRED!”

We talk to players of all skill levels. We closely monitor these forums, on top of what Jonathan said in SotG. As mentioned earlier, it’s not uncommon for devs to discuss these things in-game as well.

This may be surprising to some of you, but we’re capable of judging objective vs subjective feedback. It’s ingrained in our minds to analyze feedback this way (that is, after all, a huge part of a Quality Assurance testers job). It’s part of the process in game development.

It might not seem this way sometimes, but we definitely hear you.

steps back into the shadows

GWLeague Scrim Finder

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Sweet! You should post this in the events section too. I know some people were in there trying to coordinate scrims as well.

1600 gems for custom arena

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Just to clarify:

It’s actually significantly cheaper than a sub fee. The $20 you spend is the initial cost. It could also cost $10 + Gold, or no money at all if you have enough gold.

Once you have a server, it costs 480 gems for 20 days, 960 for 40 days, 1440 for 60 days. That’s less than $10/mo if only one person is supporting the server. Anyone can apply time to servers. Also, don’t forget you can convert gold to gems.

How about decent matchmaking?

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Hey Mezereon, have you tried using any of the custom arenas from the PvP browser? It might be better for you guys to practice that way!

4v5 has to stop!

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Evan Lesh mentioned in the last sPvP State of the Game that there are some updates coming to the matchmaking system. If you’re curious, the VOD for that show is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIKjxfuKBqw

Mind the new forum subsections!

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For sure! As for PvP-only profession forums, that is not something we will likely do. These forums are already crowded enough, and it’s difficult for devs to respond to things if they have to navigate through 8 different sections every time they want to address balance.

Maybe in the future, when our forums have advanced, it’s something we can think about.

Thanks for the feedback!

Mind the new forum subsections!

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Posted by: Allie Murdock

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Allie Murdock

Community Coordinator

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Hey all,

As some of you have probably already noticed, we have new PvP subsections! The purpose of these new sections is to keep these forums a bit better organized, and to bring more visibility to upcoming events and teams that are recruiting. Please be mindful of what you are posting, and where you are posting it, so we can make sure your thread gets the right kind of attention.

Here are some links to helpful information about them:

If you have any questions about them, feel free to ask here!

Thanks,

Allie Murdock
Guild Wars 2 PvP Community Coordinator

I dislike the Custom Arenas business model

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Posted by: Allie Murdock

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Allie Murdock

Community Coordinator

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Hey all,

Due to the inflammatory tone that this thread has turned into, it will be closed. Please keep in mind that if you want to discuss issues on our forums, you have to do it in a constructive way. Thank you for your understanding!

Useless Custom Arena Tokens?

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Posted by: Allie Murdock

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Allie Murdock

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The only top players that received them were QP leaders. Otherwise, anybody who has received them expressed that they were planning to run a tournament.

Useless Custom Arena Tokens?

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Posted by: Allie Murdock

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Allie Murdock

Community Coordinator

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Anybody can extend the life of a server, whether they are the owner of the server or not. If your friend has a server, you can apply your tokens to it if you want to keep using it.

We are open to sending kits out to folks who want to host a tournament during the beta, but beyond that, you will be able to use the tokens when we come out of beta.

Curiosity is threatening to grip me....

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Posted by: Allie Murdock

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Allie Murdock

Community Coordinator

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The calendar actually just went up last weekend. A sticky isn’t a bad idea, though it’s getting a bit crowded up there… I’ll think of something!

Thanks for the feedback!