Guild Wars 2

It’s not the trapper thief that kills you- it’s the 2 other thiefs and engi (or mes) that generally run around with him, disappearing in and out of stealth and dodging everything you try and throw at them.

Trapper thief can generally be ignored, but when you hit the party 4v1 it can be annoying dying to everything you can’t see and then stomped from stealth.

Stealth is such a bad mechanic in this game. No speed restriction whilst in stealth is terrible design.

Skynet.7201:

I’m already picturing a line of 3-4 cannons along a wall, with ACs and/or ballis to protect them and repair hammers on standby.

It seems nightmarish.

Until we know the build costs we shouldn’t make too many assumptions.

Besides, the reason most blobs rub up against well defended walls is it’s impossible to keep the sheep in check if you build trebs to clear said walls before you attack- they will wonder off leaving the trebs undefended, trebs get killed, blob loses ‘faith’ in comm…so the comm doesn’t bother and will instead lead the blob straight to the wall where they will attempt to wipe the siege from below whilst being pounded. half the time comms won’t build defensive AC to keep the wall clear either, so siege will be disabled. Or worse still, some non-ts using sheep will jump on whatever is built, not know which bubble he is on the catapult (or not even have it unlocked) and the siege is destroyed, or jump on the sup AC and mindlessly spray fire wherever they think will net them most bags.

Hammers are a terrible idea from both an attackers and defenders viewpoint and hopefully will be removed sooner or later.

As a defender, I can see ‘people’ building useless normal AC all the time, repairing walls that are being trebbed from a keep, etc. Now imagine if they can repair their precious AC- your keep/tower will be out of supplies in no time, now the enemy blob can throw down the catapults or rams and there isn’t enough supplies left to throw down siege disablers to slow them down or supplies to repair the gate/wall whilst you await your main defence force.
The attackers can now repair any damage done to catapults/rams meaning they will break in faster- as most comms won’t want to use up all their superior siege store they tend to place a restricted number of siege per fight.
Defensive cannon if built fast and well might be good in preventing catapults and might add some more flavour to the game.

If you want to win as a thief in wvw, just group up with another 2-3 thiefs and an engi or ele and jump people 3-4 v 1 as they try and return to the battle.

If you want to fight 1v1 against roamers you will need to learn how to counter them, and the best way of doing that is play each class (preferably in spvp). Certain classes you will not beat 1v1 unless they are terribad.

Of course, learn to use macros so you can hit from stealth and mash 6-8 skills in 0.01 seconds and hope they aren’t a tank, otherwise you’ll have to reset the fight and try again until they run out of heals/counters.

And use a high dodge build so when people try and hit you you can just keep dodging and dodging whilst your skills come off cooldown.

You could of course choose to play a less cheese class.

Staff ele is fine in groups situations, or in pve where nothing really moves. Solo against almost anything with a brain is quite hard as thiefs will macro burst you with 6-8 skills in 0.01 seconds then disappear before you can even start casting a fireball.

Tanky staff ele works well in groups, I enjoy running with the front liners and spamming water 1 while other water on recharge and blasting fields.

Positioning is key for an ele in group fights if you want to be effective.

I just wish some eles would learn to switch from fire and air when they see the group taking heavy damage and lay down some water, rather than hit air and run away…

Jeknar.6184:

Baldrick.8967:

So if a zerg comes along and outman you, it is now completely pointless trying to destroy the catapults they put down as you can suicide to damage them but they will keep repairing, meaning it’s now a guaranteed cap for the larger team, and you’re just throwing a loot bag at them.

If the zerg have supply to repair, they had supply to build another cata after your suicide run…

Yes, but generally blobs will build what the comm throws down- so being able to destroy them, or even pull people off them, or disable them, gives a little more time for sufficient defenders to push out and wipe the siege after a few pushes. Now a push will be fairly pointless if it’s just to damage the siege.

Sure, some comms will throw some more down- but if we had a couple supply traps to catch the chasers we might drain their supplies too.

Being able to repair will favour the larger blob or those servers that love their multiple ACs.

It will also make it easier to cap well defended things as you can keep repairing your catapults- and it’s a lot cheaper to keep repairing them then it is to repair the walls.

Actually the best idea was one above somewhere, where the suggestion was that you couldn’t repair any walls or doors- I’d amend that to ‘while disputed’, but would certainly add to the fun of trying to keep a t3 once the outer is breached.

So if a zerg comes along and outman you, it is now completely pointless trying to destroy the catapults they put down as you can suicide to damage them but they will keep repairing, meaning it’s now a guaranteed cap for the larger team, and you’re just throwing a loot bag at them.

I guess all those that stood around watching the wall drop rather than trying to kill siege were right after all, there is no point running out and dieing to try and destroy it when it can be repaired so easily.

This is terrible.

I remember all those arguments from people saying guilds are the saving grace of wvw and some even suggested it should be guild based.

In reality, guilds are mainly the problem, as they hop from one server to another saying they are looking for better fights but in reality just want to bandwagon somewhere.

Would be interesting to see some stats on guild transfers and their affect on match ups in the top 3 tiers on EU.

I know quite a few have left SFR (one complained about not having enough ‘quality pugs’ on SFR, which made me laugh) and I’m seeing a lot more pugs who don’t even join the comm squad or get on ts or even use food and run at the first sign of trouble, so I guess we’re getting more pve players in wvw. Self fulfilling prophecy for the bigger guilds, as they tend to drag along some professional pugs with them when they move then comms get frustrated at the lack of a core and a server slowly falls apart.

On the other hand, wiping twice our number with a group made entirely of pugs is still a lot of fun as it seems we’re not the only server that has a lot of pve specs running around:-)

The flaw in wvw is too many maps and not enough opponents. Imagine a 5 way map (4 corners and top team from last week gets the middle areas), five teams of 100 and a hard cap on squad numbers at 50, and you have to join a squad (so you can run multiple squads, but two squads cannot double team from the same side.). That could be seriously complicated tactics wise but also great fun.

General Health.9678:

gavyne.6847:

Now that HoT zones are for the most part empty outside of primetime hours

What hours do you consider primetime? Also are you aware that there are timers so you can see when the meta is on? It’s easy to get to a map late and end up in an empty version of it whilst there are 200 people mowing down Mordrem in a different instance to you.
Have a look at dulfy.net for a handy HoT timer and try to turn up a bit early for the start of a meta. Ten minutes is not unreasonable.

A lot of players can’t play games whenever they like, so having a timer isn’t going to help them.

Using LFG might help for some maps but for the final one, it’s a question of turn up early in a squad, wait around for 30 minutes at least while waiting on event start, do the long tedious event and hope you can stick around long enough to get it finished.

And waiting around for 30 minutes or whatever when they might only have an hour to play that night after a long hard stressful day at work isn’t much fun.

Trying to access those MP, AP etc in the H0T maps can be a real pain.

For us older folk, having to study a video and remember just when to use some twitch reaction thing that isn’t part of the core game just isn’t fun. It gets stale pretty fast, as well as frustrating that we can no longer do things easily that we took for granted in our teens/twenties.

Anything that forces a timer on you isn’t fun. You can’t pause it while you take another look at the video to see which silly skill you have to use to proceed at a particular point, so it’s fail again and back to the start.

The fact so many mastery points are locked behind something that isn’t core game is a very bad design decision. Hopefully they won’t repeat the same mistake again.

It would also help the late starters and casuals acquire these things and make a market for them on the TP if they were tradeable. To merchant they could be 1 copper, just to avoid a flood of gold into the game.

I’d like to see a lot of these currencies made tradeable. For me it’s a real bind to grind these when all I want them for is a particular set of armor for a toon in wvw, for which I have access to most of the rest of the mats. Effectively it’s another time gate on the other time gates that already exist on ascended stuff.

They should remove all the time gates and also make ascended stuff tradeable, like it was going to be at one point before they made a bad decision to gate it.

For me, it’s a terrible design and something I haven’t ever wanted to go back to as soon as I completed it on one toon, as finding a map to get the HP’s etc done is a complete pain, as you have to queue, hope you get a good map, finish event THEN find the HP’s etc before the map times out- and if you’re not good at getting around, expect it to take a few runs before the map is fully done.

The thought of doing it on other toons if I need it for map completion leave me completely cold. I’m not a fan of gated content and this is one huge gate for people with limited time or unable to stay at their computer for a couple hours straight.

Give them to me, I need them to make fulgurite. around 350-400 of each account bound material.

If only they weren’t account bound, I wouldn’t have to pve to gather enough for another set of ascended (wvw player here, we don’t get them , except a couple if you’re lucky doing an entire reward track).

Otherwise, like most other account bound mats, scrap them after you have a couple thousand spare.

Or just realise that you really, really hate this part of the game and don’t play it. Oh wait, they hid so many points behind these mini games you have to do at least some (deliberately).
I gave up on them pretty early on. I suggest the Op does the same, and just accept that these sort of pointless mini games aren’t your sort of thing (or mine).
I’m currently forced into trying to collect account bound ley line sparks in pve as there is no other way to get them in the quantity needed for a set of ascended armor. I’m not enjoying it, but force myself to do it as the end result will eventually be worth it.

If only the stuff wasn’t account bound, or was available in quantity in wvw…or even purchasable with badges or something, but no, force you to play they way they want.

This happens in many games. To start with, a few master the game mechanics faster than others (usually because they play more and theory craft group compositions, use ts, etc) and can use their superior ‘tactics’ to wipe much greater numbers of players.

As the game progresses that skill gap shrinks- there will still be some that stand out from the crowd, but more people will be used to ‘tactics’ (blasting fields isn’t rocket science, but if you’d asked the average player what it was 3 years ago, they probably didn’t know/understand how it works). It becomes harder to even a well trained well drilled perfectly geared 15 to defeat the average 40 ‘pug’ zerg.

Bear in mind depending on the time of day and what day it is has a huge effect on who is in that zerg – some days will be 40 veterans against which you have no chance, others will be 15-20 running decent builds and 20-25 pve equipped non-ts using loot bags.

I still see too many that turn and run away as soon as a fight starts because the numbers aren’t in their favour- guaranteeing the fight is lost. Never understood why people are scared of having their pixels hurt, but that is one of the main reasons smaller groups could zerg bust. Zerglings see a few downed and don’t want their pixels hurt, turn and start running, support to front line lost, front line downed, zerg broken, mop up.

I Lol’d at the OP’s post. Coming on the forums to complain about a player killing another one in a pvp game mode where a fight was started…seriously?
Maybe try dueling in OS.

If you’re having a problem with conditions in a group/zerg situation, then your balance in the squad is wrong. There are so many ways to cleanse in a zerg if everyone knows their job and class it should be a non-event.

No, they should stop stripping resources away from the wvw servers for their spvp matches to run smoothly and instead invest in better servers. $200k could go towards that.

As for making more maps, that will probably never happen, as they just don’t allow enough resources to be used on the wvw game mode.

[/quote]

DBL is NOT a bad map. /quote

See, that’s where you went wrong. It’s an awful map for wvw. My personal suspicion has always been that it was an unused map to go next to Dry Top and would have involved gliders, but got pulled then redesigned a little for wvw and thrown in there.

To the OP, we are finally and for the first time having actual responses from the devs, who are adjusting things and trying to make wvw what the majority of wvw players want it to be.

I have some hope that they might actually slowly get there, so long as they don’t take their eyes off the ball.

Korgov.7645:

Ben K.6238:

Wait, do people actually care about how many points the server gets for their kills? I thought it was all about loot bags.
Give players a reason to care about the score and then they’ll think about PPK, but for now the difference between 2 nothings and 3 nothings is still nothing.

Sad but true.

It is a real pity warscore breakdown is nowhere to be found. Server rankings, leaderboards for players and guilds, and on-screen floating texts when you gain/lose points are also missing. Still after 4 years into the game!

With those in place WvW players could have a chance to understand how the matchup evolves and what their contribution is.

Leaderboards for players and guilds? How would that work exactly? How would you measure player contribution? Is that scout that just saved SM worth less than the spam merchant press 1 for loot in the middle of the blob?

Shala.8352:

It’s not about how much you consider a player “skilled” if he got legendary rank in pvp, is about how much I consider it skilled… thats why it’s me chosing to show it instead of you or arenanet. I don’t care if people won’t respect me cuz they think roaming or “The eternal” title has a better value, but i will respect those people having my same legendary badge instead of a player showing me the amber bag, cuz i worked on it and i know how much effort it requires. In the same way as people that got The eternal title will respect and be respected by others having it, cuz they put effort on it and they want to show it. It’s not about discrimination, but in this game there’s already enough bad credit on those who put effort on something less casual due to big ego of average MMO players, that flatting players like this will make it even more and more casual.

I repeat my questions, cuz developers and even players couldnt answer to them, trying to mislead the point:
You talk much of trying bringing people in pvp, and wvw is one step before the competitive pvp for the new players, so why hide the title showing pvp partecipation? Does it creates too much sense of inferiority or discrimination on those who couldnt get trough emerald?

By that logic our wvw titles should be displayed in all modes, including spvp. ‘Worked’ a kitten sight longer and harder for my wvw title than 3-4 weeks of match fixing to obtain ‘legendary’ in spvp.

A lot of people try spvp first when they come to the game, then move to wvw, rather than the other way around, when they realise how gimmicked and restrictive spvp builds are.

I’m glad they removed unnecessary clutter from wvw, even though seeing people’s pvp rank was usually a good indicator of how bad they were going to be- higher rank equalling less useful and more opinionated, running solo builds and having no inclination to be a useful member of any team.

I have zero respect for any title in this game, as I have found over the years playing MMo’s that those with more titles/higher titles/etc tend to be the most selfish self absorbed self righteous players with terribad group skills.

Here’s the problem. If you don’t raid, then you need at least 10 MP from adventures. The ones from events aren’t easy to find and some of them require a huge time commitment that working people might find hard to do.

You end up just being frustrated and ‘taking a break’ from the game.

Too many of the points aren’t connected to the maps but are hidden behind various gates or gimmicks that a lot of people don’t like (yes, some do like JPs and turning into a mushroom, but that’s SM8.., not GW2). That’s the issue.

I’d like to see more options to get the MPs rather than pigeon holing into things people would rather shove their arm in a mincer than do.

The only thing I expect from wvw guilds is that they will hop server whenever it suits them.

Every guild is different, and people have different expectations too.

Squee.7829:

They already nerfed them once. And I still can’t get gold on most of them. But I’m terrible at them. I know I’m terrible at them. And I know this is 100% my problem. Because I find them tedious and don’t put forth the effort to get good at them, as many other people have done, I never managed to clear all of them. So i got masteries from raids instead. But my attitude toward adventures isn’t something Anet can or should fix.
To me, adventures are like jump puzzles. I hate them and I’m terrible at them, but some people are really into it. And if you’re not, there are plenty of other things to do that aren’t adventures or jump puzzles. So I’m glad they exist exactly as they are, even if I don’t personally enjoy them. They add variety to the game so it’s not all just “go here! Hit this guy a lot!”

Edit: except shooting gallery. I don’t recall a single person ever talk about that one being fair or even moderately easy to do. That one can go die in a fire.

I gave up on masteries when I realised that despite finishing the maps several times I am woefully short on masteries in Tyria, which are all gated behind garbage or JPs, and HoT which are gated behind events being on a certain timer and adventures which drive me to go play any other game rather than this one.

As I mostly wvw when I play, I’m past really caring if I ever get them, until they become a block for obtaining legendary stuff.

Yay! It’s good they are finally listening and making the changes that are needed. Keep up the good work devs, thanks!

So, something that existed in Guild Wars the game still hasn’t made it to the GW2, namely the ability to save and send and put on different builds using templates.

I find swapping builds in GW2 a complete chore- so much so that I don’t bother (apart from utility skill swap). I mean, who has enough paper to write down all the various pieces of armor, runes, trait lines and trait picks just so you can go back to your default after trying out a different build?

It’s such a basic function and would enable teams to easily get the right set ups they want on various players, why has it never been worked on?

I used to keep a pile of paper with all my various set ups for all my various toons that I used to main before H0T came out, when I used to use every class frequently depending on what was needed, but since H0T I’ve mained just two really- basically because changing builds is such a drag.

I think it’s variable. It’s also not the same for each side. That’s as much as we can determine, other than one side’s q might be 20 and yet 50 total on that side whilst another server is running a 70-80 man blob.

It’s probably controlled by some clever bit of programming that fails to react to big fluctuations hence why it seems one side has huge numbers whilst the other struggles.

If they rotate the Deserted BL back in for 3 months we’ll be back to 50 man q for EB and dust gathering on the BL’s.

Anet need to just man up and admit Deserted BL is a terrible design (or a spare pve map next to Dry Top that didn’t make it) and go back to the drawing board and produce a new beta wvw map using player input. I’m pretty sure if they asked the community to design some they could come up with dozens for Anet to get ideas from . In the meantime, if they have to, bring in one Deserted BL so we can happily ignore it.

Rotate 3 in and I’m back to mainly playing something else until it rotates off again.

The real solution is to make ascended tradeable. Which is what they intended at some point given it’s a category in the trading post. Problem solved.

As a mainly wvw player I still don’t have trinkets for all my mains and indeed stopped playing most of them rather than face the ascended grind.

I’d love to be able to buy ascended gears, rings, weapons, etc from the TP and much of the griping about the numerous things you are forced into doing that you don’t like would go away.

Dhemize.8649:

Is it really bursting if they’re slow attacks? At least you can dodge them as opposed to wasting all stamina to avoid one rapid attack. I can’t even begin to describe the amount of pew pew rangers or thieves that shadow step to crit several times then pop back. Retaliation gives them pause (or at least should to the skilled/observant user). I still believe it’s a good counter measure for the rapid crit happy people out there. Don’t like facing retaliation? Wait it out, use a less punishing skill, boon strip, etc.

As usual, the useless suggestion of ‘wait it out, use a less punishing skill, etc’ rears it’s ugly head.

Please, go try and play some of the characters that have as their main skills aoe skills and low armor ratings. Retal can literally kill rangers passively from one barrage (hits a warrior for say 1k damage, warrior ticks 500 auto heal, retal hits back 5 times 300-400 per tick). Or try using a bubble as a mesmer against a retal heavy zerg, just have your main heal ready to waste otherwise you might be downed within 2-3 seconds.

You can even cast an aoe in a bit of open field and the zerg runs through it and you are near death- without any enemy being anywhere near you or taking any offensive action at all.

Retal is an awful passive damage dealer in wvw and needs an internal cooldown so it only procs on you once per second. Good enough for small fights and 1v1, and makes more classes viable to play in larger scale wvw.

Then again, thiefs skills need an internal delay between uses and that hasn’t been addressed yet. It’s annoying being venomed and hit for 14k of spam macro attacks inside 0.25 seconds whilst being rooted on 1700 (2700? armor rating) armor leaving me with 4-5k of hp before a fight has even started, and with no chance of being able to run away against a super speedy distance eating stealthed toon.. Not a problem on my guard as aegis has a wonderful effect on thiefs trying to macro you:-)

Heimlich.3065:

Cake.4920:

a large skillless blob can take everything away from small groups with no counterplay. I’ve been on both sides of PvD and it’s not fun for anyone, so I have to ask: who wanted this change?

Presumably large low-skill blobs. Welcome to WvW.

Some guild leader was posting about it last week, moaning that t3 took too long to flip and they couldn’t just facerub the doors down.

Guess he got what he wanted, now they can run their 30 or 40 man guild blob up to a door and not have to worry about pesky things like skill or tactics, just spam 1 until the door has melted.

Bad change, catering to the low skilled insta karma train types.

The poll is also flawed as it gives no option on how long the rotation should last. Three months is WAY too long if they bring Deserted back on all three BL, so the lesser evil is to have two alpine one Deserted and then monitor the metrics as to how many play on each map (and exclude guild vs guild, as it would be the preferred map for that as easiest to load your entire guild in). Then just let Deserted die the death it deserves.

I’m doing the new track for the final armors- once I have the complete set of 18 I’ll start another track.

Not really interested in ‘most profitable’, having any reward track is 100% better.

I don’t have much problem following the tag – just control T on him and train your zerglings not to off target unless they spot the enemy comm and we’re sniping.

It also helps if you’re on TS listening to the comm state the obvious, like ‘swing left, fake right, push, retreat, etc’ so you can stay on him when he moves.

I’m trying to decide whether you are a troll, or just find tactics too hard after karma training in EoTM for too long.

If you’re not trolling, then I feel sorry that your guild is incapable of breaking in to a t3 anything. It requires a bit more thought than rubbing your spam 1 against the door and balling up and spamming.

T3 isn’t meant to be easy to take if defended. It can take a while to take it- but it’s great fun trying and coming back and trying again, wearing down the defenders, attacking 4 points around the thing at once. You cannot keep repairing against a determined attack if the attackers have any sense and prevent dollys from resupplying (clue: flip camps, have a couple thiefs jump dollies).

I find these sorts of battles much less stale than two guilds running into each other over and over again on a flat field fighting over nothing. That’s fun the first few times but gets stale very fast.

Give me tactics and things that require some smarts to achieve, or even some persistence….

Anvil.9230:

Humm…before asking for a nerf to adress a tactical issue, perhaps should we adpat our play style first?

Breaking canons, and so on is still quick if you have the number in your zerg with you, and/or you can always use balistas for that.

A good organisation is also to ask to roaming groups to prepare the zerg assaut destroying canons and so on with balista. Two players are sufficient to build and use a balista.

And for the doors…well…if they are correctly defended, why not to choose to Attack a less defended wall section with catapults?….

Honnestly I do not see the issue with Hardened Gates and Hardened Siege.

They just make you, as a commander, in an obligation to better organize your assault…perhaps by setting up a real siege making a “ninja operation” less easy.

To conquer a correctly defended keep you need to weaken it first…cutting supply, perhaps conquering its support points first (towers), and finlay organizing a network of siege machine (treb protected by shield generators, balistas, and perharps carts…)…

And it ’s a good thing for the interest of the game.

This +1.

I love the hardened gates. Not a fan of the shield generators so much, but they can be used by both sides.

Looks like the OP just wants to steamroll karma train t3 keeps with his blob without having to use any tactics at all. Ballistas are a wonderful thing, learn to use them, speed build a treb, attack from 3 points at the same time (co ordinate over ts), and above all, have a havoc squad taking down siege, draining supply, preventing dollies reaching it, cap camps so defenders can’t resupply, etc. Hills can take a long time to take if defended and t3, but it’s really great fun doing it whilst outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 (the Kodash mega blob!) and needs some determination.

It’s not EoTM, if you want to mindlessly karma train, go there. ABL requires a bit more thought and tactics against people who want to defend.

I still find it amusing that we have so many players who turn and run at the first sign of bigger numbers, or who stand on walls waving at the catapults taking down garri wall as they are afraid of getting their pixels hurt, rather than engaging their brain and porting up, go around, attack from behind suiciding on the siege several times until it’s down.

WvW might actually require brains to win soon, not face rubbing doors.

Yes to everything except the repair hammer. That favours the stronger side way too much. Suiciding siege would be pointless if they could repair it.

Deployable mortar and cannon make for a lot more interesting counter siege. If they built 20 AC you can use a mortar to wipe those out, forcing them to come out their bunker to play.

Deserted BL can stay gone as far as I’m concerned.

I’m guessing the OP runs a thief, where he can spend most of his time running around and then burst, so having LOS is just fine for him.

Lots of LOS objects for you to play with on the BLs now- run around those cap points to your hearts content. In fact, there’s plenty on EB too. If you’ve ever played a slow casting ranged class you know all about the number of LOS obstructions there are already.

We don’t need any more obstructions to skills that either take a long time to cast or are on a long cooldown.

If you get caught in open field against two or more enemies there is a good chance you’ll die, that’s the way the game is supposed to be. Learn not to run straight across the wide open spaces….

The problem I have with thiefs as a staff ele when they jump me is this: venom, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, backstab, poof and all in 0.1 seconds whilst I’m unable to do anything. If there are two of them (or 3, or even 4, hunting as a pack) and they have any skill at all, I’m dead meat before I can even move or react. This is if I don’t see them coming- otherwise a single thief isn’t really that much of an issue unless they get really lucky. It’s usually not bad if there are friendlies around so I can throw heals around and generally make the area a bad place for thiefs to be.

As a mes, 1v1 isn’t a problem, but condi thiefs become a problem very fast as they apply condis faster than necros and with way higher ticks too!

As a guard, you can happily ignore them or if you want to be really annoying, wonder around spamming staff 1 and laughing at them:-)

Ranger can be a pain if you’re not set up for wondering around but a condi SB/melee set up is a good laugh against thiefs.

Engineers should just /laugh if a thief attacks them, or switch to flamethrower and troll more!

Other classes can cope quite well with thiefs too.

The only OP thing about them is the huge number of skills they can macro off in milliseconds before disappearing, and the fact they can always disengage if things go wrong and wipe off condis, etc before coming back with full HP.

They are annoying in packs- but then so would 3-4 of anything be if they are decent players.

Only nerf I’d make is slight cooldown on skill activation/casting speed and make it so stealth slows you down to 50% speed (to start with, maybe 33%, see how it goes), so you don’t get both amazing mobility and not being seen, you would get one or the other.

I think the record for a thief hitting me with individual skills/attacks in between one cast of my fire 1 skill is 12. I wish I’d screenshotted that one.

It’s easy to have sub groups now, just run more tags, use ts, and you can have different teams doing different things. It’s just more fun to run as a large group facing off against another large group than it is to mindlessly karma train- if you like that, go to EoTM.

I still think the best solution to the ‘night capping problem’ was my proposal to lower the points per tick of static objects whilst increasing points for the initial cap, so the points system rewards action rather than inaction.

If they put multiples on the busiest times that will alienate a large section of the playerbase that doesn’t play at prime time and make scores even worse.

It will also lead to people just thinking ‘I won’t bother, my time has been made almost worthless’ if they happen to play in an off peak time.

They need to be very careful how they implement any scoring discrimination or ‘multiplier’. Some would argue it’s a lot harder and takes a lot longer for a 5 man team to cap a keep off hours than a 50 man blob with 6 superior rams, but if you apply a multiplier to peak then easy capping will be worth more- which makes zero sense.

The OP seems to think there are enough people willing to tag up at all times of day to make the multiple maps, 30 cap viable. Players will go to where the action is, ie where the comms are.

There is also the small problem of other servers leaving players logged in deliberately in your spawn- not so bad when there’s 5 of them on a 60 map cap but when it’s 5 of 30, that’s a big problem.

Guild raids would be next to impossible to get all on the map you want to run on, and if you do there will be the usual complaints either from the guild ‘leave the map we have guildies trying to get in’ or pugs complaining about the guild group not capping with no pugs to fill that gap.

Can’t see how restricting numbers will be anything but bad.

We had it happen for hours last night, with the opposition knowing when we were going to come through a gate, etc. Just made it that much more enjoyable when we won the fights.

It’s going to happen, and there is not a lot you can realistically do to fix it.

Of more concern is that the opposition seem to be able to get 70 people all moving in one blob for a long time and still have scouts whereas we can have 20 people standing around in various spots on the map doing nothing but causing a queue.

Swagger.1459:

Baldrick.8967:

I think the real issue with the Op’s suggestion is 8 or more maps just for wvw is never going to happen. Designing ones that function for a mix of pvp and pve that people want to play on would take thousands of dev hours (probably a lot more man hours).

Anet aren’t going to spend that amount of time on wvw, so the OP’s suggestion is never going to happen, so the thread may as well be closed.

Arguing about how it would be implemented is an exercise in pointlessness.

Never say never because you never know… I have a strong feeling the devs read this and said “Wow, these are truly amazing ideas!”.

I, on the other hand, think the devs wouldn’t read it at all. Someone will check it, ie a mod, to ensure it conforms to their rules. It might be on a list somewhere to be glanced at as part of the ‘hundred ideas from the forums’ list.

They might even read it and think ‘if only we had the budget of a small country, we might be able to try that’.

If they did read it, their thoughts were probably more along the lines of ’ terrible ideas, we will alienate most of the wvw playerbase if we went near that, look what happened when we brought in more pve to the Deserted BL.’

When coming up with suggestions, bear in mind the wvw budget is very small. The Deserted BL feels like a missing main map section that could have appeared next to Dry Top, which was then altered to try and fit in wvw. They don’t have the budget for multiple maps.

I think this idea is awful. I liken it to removing the HP bar on the mega event bosses, say the laser one, and making it so you have to guess when to go off and fire the lasers.

Not being able to see the score means there is no motivation to affect it- so even less reason to defend when you’re outmanned or attack pvd as a guild to help the score along, no idea whether you can take it easy and have some fun or push hard as the score is close, etc.

No. EoTM is nothing like wvw. It has it’s own niche and should be left as it is.

I think the real issue with the Op’s suggestion is 8 or more maps just for wvw is never going to happen. Designing ones that function for a mix of pvp and pve that people want to play on would take thousands of dev hours (probably a lot more man hours).

Anet aren’t going to spend that amount of time on wvw, so the OP’s suggestion is never going to happen, so the thread may as well be closed.

Arguing about how it would be implemented is an exercise in pointlessness.

I must admit I smiled when I read these replies.

As a mesmer I either roam a bit (scout, cap camps, etc) or play off the zerg finishing downed, playing with bubbles, constantly targeting the enemy comm or other fun stuff. Depends on how many decent eles are with us.

Things I don’t generally have on my bar are veil, portal etc and it’s known not to bother asking me as I’m a bit glassy. I also don’t expect anyone to go out of their way to res me. If I’m downed or out I will immediately port out to stop anyone wasting time getting me up.

Totally different when I’m on my support staff ele where the world and it’s mother (well, the decent players in the zerg, not the runaway pugs) will stop me being finished off and get me up.

Swagger.1459:

@baldrick

I think you should reread the op because you obviously do not understand. The proposal was pretty clear on the different types of maps and their purpose.

The goal is to have a more meaningful mist war experience that gets different types of players involved.

The devs obviously want to get players to try wvw so the PvE maps are there to encourage that and provided the staging ground behind the mist war. These can be good hooks for players to get involved and try out pvp.

The PvP/PvE maps use Guild Wars lore to make them interesting and provide a great place for solo and small groups of players. The devs made Desert Borderlands to serve this smaller scale purpose, but the reason it wasn’t well received is because their current design took away 75% of the open space maps that were conducive to a mass pvp experience. There are solo and small group players who like roaming and contributing to their side, but they are limited by all the big “blobs” and big walls to defeat. These zones offer a small taste of “PvP server” style play and that appeals to some.

There are 8 PvP maps in this equation that do not have any added PvE stuff so I don’t see your complaint. Unless you are referring to the extra help to support outnumbered sides defend objectives, but outnumbered sides need a bit of a hand from the massive “blobs” beating at the door.

I’m more than willing to have a constructive conversation with you about this, but do your part and gain a better understanding of the proposal first.

I read it in it’s entirety and understood exactly what you proposed. I was short of time and made a short and to the point reply giving my opinion of your proposals. i thought my reply made clear my understanding of your proposals and my clear opinion of it. I don’t need to re read what I consider utter trash (again, my opinion of your proposals, duly considered, not meant to be insulting in any way, just a direct way of expressing it) to enable me to make an informed judgement on what you proposed.

8 maps is too many, especially off hours.

Lore maps are only of interest in that small minority of the player base that actually follow it. They don’t make great places for smaller groups as you haven’t got any control over who goes there or how many, and attract all the wrong sorts of people, like those that enjoy griefing or those under the mistaken impression that fights might be fair there.

Having mixed pve/pvp maps has been tried in other MMo’s and generally turn out to be terrible ideas (usually gank fests) which rather than encouraging people to explore further in pvp turn them off it completely.

Destroying what is left of servers and forcing people into anonymous blobs won’t encourage the current wvw player base to stay around, especially when you then propose not just one shift but potentially endless tinkering with players not knowing who they are fighting with from one week to the next. The suggestion that people should be moved to balance populations (as there won’t be servers to move, your proposal makes 3 ‘sides’) would be game breaking for many.

What makes people keep playing the game mode isn’t some trainee map (gank fest), some pve map where pvp is enabled, or numerous gimmicks and tunnels and the like, it’s the community and the fun. Take away the community and you’re left with badly organised blobs karma training like EoTM.

It’s already clear from the current server match up trails that we end up with a load of players who don’t seem able to read map chat, run pve builds, don’t join commanders, and run at the first sign of an enemy that we have way too many players that have been in EoTM way too long – now imagine taking away the core that keeps things running and you are just left with a meaningless mess.

If they brought in your proposals I’d try it for a couple weeks just to confirm it’s an awful mess then go play something else permanently.

Swagger.1459:

Diku.2546:

Umm…sorry…but this is how Color/Team is used in EoTM as I understand it.

I just used the ANet’s article to help illustrate how “Teams” are formed in EoTM, and I thought you’d understand the reference.

That system that EoTM is using was described in my post above…not sure how long it’s been in use exactly.

Sorry if I’m making this too complex. That’s why I’m asking & providing a reference that I understand as a WvW player.

---

How do you assign player(s) to a team(s) in your proposed solution?

Well, you’d take US servers and break them down into 3 wvw sides based off of population averages that the devs have. You do the same for the EU side.

Populations shift over time, as stated by the devs, so the devs move whatever individual servers that need to be moved to rebalance. The tech is in place to do this now.

The neat thing is that this model includes different style maps (pvp, pvp/pve and pve) that cater to different players and play styles. Also, all maps contribute to scoring for their faction side.

In the long run the devs will have an easier time balancing populations and scoring for a 1 “world” wvw, instead on micromanaging multiple different match ups.

So, once you have broken all the servers down to three ‘sides’, how do you then move individual servers to ‘balance’? Haven’t you already done away with ‘servers’ when you created your ‘sides’?

What about the more complex Euro servers, where we have different languages? How is your proposal going to work there?

You mean break up whatever identity they have tried to form on a whim and hope they like where they are sent?

What about gaming the system. Once you destroyed the servers in forming your teams, what’s to stop everyone piling up on, say, green? Going to shift players who have paid for a transfer off again? Randomly send players to another server?

I tried posting a short reply but it got removed by the forum gremlins, so hence the longer reply.

The pve maps you can remove. They don’t belong in wvw, and wvw players don’t want MORE pve in a pvp mode- it’s taken three years to get that garbage toned down or removed. Tunnels aren’t good places for fights. Having unconnected objectives makes holding them meaningless, as Deserted BL’s aptly demonstrated. Being able to totally avoid the enemy is also not promoting the fun aspects of the game mode, which is about fighting other people, not having eyt more ways to avoid fights.

In short, no. just no. Terrible ideas.

Never completed my masteries, as couldn’t do most of the ‘mini-games’ locked behind various gates to get the mastery points, not were there ever enough in the core game to unlock those either- again, locked behind too many gates or JPs.

Luckily, I don’t need most of them for wvw. But my worry is when they bring the next expansion that they repeat the same mistake ot make it even worse by assuming a certain level of masteries before you enter.