Guild Wars 2

Only thing I saw 1/2 cast time on the first attack of the sword auto chain, I think it was before 3/4.

Does anybody discern something else?

If this trait will stay like this it should at least include the torment also, considering it is movement based and the main damage source of scourge…

Sifu.9745:

Unplayable. Even vanilla Elementalist is more effective in PvP than Weaver.

With water and earth it is playable the problem is, then we can’t get Arcane, which means no protections, that means most squishiest class in the game should play without any mitigation in melee range…

Either we should have access to protection in weaver tree or barrier should do more Elementalist….

mistsim.2748:

I’m really glad weaver is mediocre/garbage. I really wouldn’t be able to stand another d/d cele era. I have ptsd from the first time.

I hope cele D/D meta will be back (not that it will be good in todays power creep) because I have PTSD from healbot…

Even that it works, isn’t that little bit weak for cleansing 3 mobility conditions every 10s for GM trait?

Silv.9207:

The problem of the Celestial was not (only) the overall amount of Stats, the problem was that different classes was able to maximize themselves in both survavibility and damage becoming unkillable. Whyle who was unable to do that was totally kept away from the meta. If you wasn’t able to spam Might, Protection and/or Regeneration you was off the meta, no matter what.

Also Everyone will turn back to Celestial if possible, without exeption. That amulet was too good and every class will make bunker/hybrid build with it just because it’s too good.

Add back the Celestial amulet will only delet our DPS/Burst meta and turn back to the Bunker meta.
The bunker meta was seriously Boring.

Everyone think that it was better than now, but it wasn’t.

Be more skilled to kill someone? NO.
If the enemy was an ele or a decapper engi you had to be in 3 to kill him and the fight was of 3+ minutes. I don’t think that something like that was called “Skills”, even because any decent player was able to play a ele and last for Minutes before die, even against 3 players.
I seen different times when two eles found themselves fight in 1v1, then stop fighting and just stay in on the point doing nothing because there was not a single way one of them was able to kill the other one.
Is that what you mean for “more skilled”?

The Bunker Meta was funny but also Boring as hell.
We asked for years to change the meta and now you want to have it back?

If you don’t think that in the actual meta you need skills to win there’s something wrong and you’re a incredible Pro or a N00b.
Timing for burst or for active a defensive skill, Disengage, Positioning, Teamwork, there’s a Lot of things you need to do to kill the enemy.
I find out that to survive and be a good player in this meta you need to be seriously Better if compared to the Celestial meta.

Celstial is too good because grant ALL the statistics. And that make you Stronger than if you have 3 stat maxed.

Do you remember the Mercenary amulet and how much everyone cryed because was “too strong”?
It was strong not for the overall amount of statistics but because granted both Vitality and Toughness. That granted a more equilibrated and then Better defence.
Reduce the amount of weak spot is the best thing you can do in a game like that because you can just spam might and fury and you’ll be strong as if you use a Berserker amulet, with all the defence of a Celestial user.

I don’t want the Bunekr meta back and add the Celestial will only make EVERYONE use it.
It’s too strong, grant too much, cover all the weakness of different classes and make them insanely strong and force the gameplay into a Bunker meta.

Eles disperatly want it back only because they was insanely OP with it and was able to be Unkillable and spam out so much damage that was stronger than a Berserker user (seriously).
I don’t want to have to bunker meta back only to make a class happy. the ele is still the top meta and make teams win by himself. No need to grant him to be OP again.

Don’t add Celestial back, Pleas NO.

All fines and dandy but ignores the core problem, I started playing GW2 PVP because of diversity, with the removal of Celestial D/D Ele disappeared completely, I never enjoyed the healbot, S/F only playable damage build but you have to make 3 times more work then a Warrior or Revenant to deal the same damage and smallest mistake and you will die.

I don’t expect D/D to best spec, I just want it to playable, without vitality/toughness/healing DD ele just dies with its paper armor, pathetic health pool just from random crap on the node.

S/F just survives because it does not have to be on the node.

First one, are we going to be able to keep the passive traits of the 2 traits line in the same time? For ex, if I have sword at air and off-hand, lets say focus on earth, am going to have the same time air minor, like crits cause vulnerability and earth minor plus 150 toughness, or the main hand current attunement minors will be active, in this case only air minors?

Second, are we going to get 2 buttons to switch the attunements one for the main hand and one for off-hand (if so how will this work staff, double hander) or there will one button but it will first switch main hand and next click off-hand and next click again main hand, vs?

Thx for answers…

FrownyClown.8402:

I don’t know. Everyone complained we couldn’t sustain and then they gave us a ton of ways to gain barrier. I personnally think if you went weaver,fire,earth you could do rather well

The problem is are we going to have enough condi cleans with that setup..

I guess we all accept that Diamond Skin is useless, we would only have fire trait that cleans 3 condition, focus 4 and weaver super speed clearing condition, which depends our ability to gain super speed, which can only occur either we are immobilized, crippled and chilled or we imply these conditions, would it be enough? we will see…

Why don’t you tell the big elephant in the room, the moment they removed the Celestial, they kitten ed the Ele sPVP to auramencer.

Non of the attack of the Ele, even Scepter/Dagger combination has direct damage of a lets Warrior, Thief (compare the damage of 100 blades to Firegrab 10K to 5K), because Ele damage was always combination direct damage and condition, we hit some for direct damage then burning, vice versa, ….after celestial removal they never added an amulet with power/prec/cond/vitality, I guess for this reason none of the melee specs of the ele will be valid….

I new they can’t make this stat combination 1050/560/1050/560 but 750/560/750/560 can make this stat combination valid…

Huskyboy.1053:

lucadiro.4519:

Gwaihir.1745:

Dps ele is perfectly fine, but people won’t run it since your support is so ungodly strong.

Lol sure… Show me a video in wich you play, or anyone play, a dps Ele spec in mid/High tier pvp please.
I really want to see how PERFECTLY FINE it is.

I dont play healbot Tempest since a lot because is boring, lot of time I play DPS Ele because I love the gameplay of it.
Play DPS Ele after HoT its like play Extreme mode while everyone else play Easy mode.
You say Ele DPS is perfectly fine because you dont know nothing about Ele, maybe you got reckt from someone very good while you are a potato and then you think “DPS Ele is fine”.
But you dont realize that you can archieve way better reward playing with very less effort any other DPS classes.

Are you for real? FA ele is what Phantaram has been playing primarily during S5. Feel free to watch his videos and learn something: https://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/videos/all

If you watch Phantaram streams to the end when he starts seeing more competent people when his rating increased the FA S/F Ele is wrecked or he can’t just not influenced the match as he wants to, he just switched to Revenant.

I see 3 reasons for it, first to deliver damage in F/A you just have to do insane combos, with revenant you just make one click, rev finds the enemy and deals damage (same with Thief, one click you teleport to enemy), unbelievable map mobility and and the most important one, Staff 5 and Herald Elite moving the down body, there is so much stability in the game that is impossible to something to rezzers only better option is to move down body away from their rez zone.

As long as Rev/Thief are so good in these subject FA S/F will never replace them….

The problem with Sage if a thief decides to lock on you and catch you out of Earth your chance of recovering from that is bigger with Mender….

1vs1 against Thief and Rev are no problem, the problem when you try to support your team and thief and rev pressures you all the time, they have to catch you once at %50 hp and earth in CD…..

If people will stop playing troll engi or healbot this broken PVP|Meta that ANet had created will disappear…years long Anet said they don’t want dedicated healer classes in GW2 and here we are with healbot, 0 damage…..

They screwed the build system and options so much that if you dont have the healbot and troll engi, your teammate dies left and right every2s……

I have nothing against the changes they are surely a changes in the right direction.

My problem is the role of the Sc/X FA Ele, it is directly in competition with Thief and Revenant for.roster spot but with its current mobility that can’t happen.

It is time to revert the nerf to RTL, they were may be right to nerf it 3 years ago but this isn’t the same game as 3 years before.

If SC/Dagger will be viable again while dagger again as a mobility and defense tool….

One side question for builds with the buff to elemental shield are you using evasive arcana or elemental surge(for reduced elemental shield CD reduction)?

Well ANet WOW, just wow..

This class has nothing to do anymore with the class we get during the expansion….good job, you are either extremely incompetent to balance a class or you just give a carrot. Do you think this will work again like this in next expansion.

What this class do now other then auto-attacking….

lucadiro.4519:

Dahkeus.8243:

posthumecaver.6473:

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

Ancestral Grace is a druid skill and is balanced around the rest of the druid.

Ride the Lightning is an ele skill and is balanced around the rest of ele skills.

You can argue against the balance of these classes if you want (and that’s a valid argument right now), but trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of similar skills across classes never makes sense. Class balance in video games 101.

The problem is that RTL is not balanced around the rest of Ele skills. Was made as it is because it game breaking the Spirit Watch’s orb mechanics.
This was the reason of his cd and his penality if used as a mobility tool.

RTL nerfed to oblivion long before that map existed.

Dahkeus.8243:

posthumecaver.6473:

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

Ancestral Grace is a druid skill and is balanced around the rest of the druid.

Ride the Lightning is an ele skill and is balanced around the rest of ele skills.

You can argue against the balance of these classes if you want (and that’s a valid argument right now), but trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of similar skills across classes never makes sense. Class balance in video games 101.

When RTL nerfed to oblivion the Argumentation from devs a class can’t have Thief Level mobility and same time that much sustain. Now Druids has same sort of mobility and more sustain, so something is changed I like to know what and why RTL still sucks.

A the Moment Druid and Ele playing same role Bunker/Healer one can be mobile other not, I like to know why.

And it definetely make sense to compare to similar classes mobility Skill specially considering both are playing for same role, when I would compare Thiefs mobility with Ele’s mobility that might make no sense but comparing Druids with Ele definitely make sense.

Archon.6480:

posthumecaver.6473:

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

…because Ele has lightning flash as a utility so Ele can teleport up cliffs then ride the lightning around. The mobility would be ridiculous if ride the lightning was on shorter cooldown. Ele also has four skill bars…

Druid cannot teleport at all.

LF is an utility slot mate, not a weapon skill, a skill that because lack survivablity that Elemantalist can take anymore.

I didn’t ask to nerf AG here, I didn’t place any critic to Druids/Rangers, I am only asking 2 skills that are doing exactly the same thing, why is one 15s and other one is on 40s CD.

5s difference is ok but it is friggen 25s difference.

LughLongArm.5460:

posthumecaver.6473:

LughLongArm.5460:

Ele weapon CD are balanced around he concept of them able to to have 4 weapon sets that dont share CD. Same as ranger’s, weapon damage modifiers, are balancded around the concept of the pet dealing chunk of the damage.

It was saied here like a million times that you cant compare skills, even somewhat similiar skills, between 2 differnt professions.

Hmmm, wait a second, with 2 weapons and Celestial forms, Druid has 3 skill bars, 15 skills compare to Ele’s 20, you mean that explains CD difference for 25s (15s for AG to 40s RTL). This is no damage comparison, it is a mobility skill which function similar for both class. Ele got the 40s RTL nerf because its mobility was comparable to Thief and developers didn’t wanted any class with mobility comparable to Thief.

Now suddenly Ranger has comparable mobility, why?

This Ele has 20 skills, so it must suck, is getting old you know.

Now you just poping out random points without actually understanding the argument. Getting druid bar into the equation, also puts the tempst mechanic as well. Unless you have very deep understanding of every profession and their their role in a functioning Meta, you can directly compare two professions one agianst the other, espeically not spsific weapon skill. Just one example- why ranger’s GS hit bash got 300 range and warrior shield bash got 450 range, with better stun duration, no position requirement, better damage and lower cd? WHY? WHY? BECAUSE !!!

Ranger dont have thive’s like mobility , not even close, we’r decent vertical runners sure, but we cant abuse hights and platfrom like thives can or eles with lightning flash.

Looking at ele palce in the meta, they’r considered top tier in all game modes and been like that for the last 2 years. Not sure where this rant is coming from?

Mate I just asked for 2 mobility skills doing the same thing (one with more functionality) why the CDs are different and you start speaking Elementalist 20 skills, am I the one poping out random things?

lucadiro.4519:

But hey, rtl has a nice animation

And it is bad that we can’t see it as often as we like because of that CD

LughLongArm.5460:

Ele weapon CD are balanced around he concept of them able to to have 4 weapon sets that dont share CD. Same as ranger’s, weapon damage modifiers, are balancded around the concept of the pet dealing chunk of the damage.

It was saied here like a million times that you cant compare skills, even somewhat similiar skills, between 2 differnt professions.

Hmmm, wait a second, with 2 weapons and Celestial forms, Druid has 3 skill bars, 15 skills compare to Ele’s 20, you mean that explains CD difference for 25s (15s for AG to 40s RTL). This is no damage comparison, it is a mobility skill which function similar for both class. Ele got the 40s RTL nerf because its mobility was comparable to Thief and developers didn’t wanted any class with mobility comparable to Thief.

Now suddenly Ranger has comparable mobility, why?

This Ele has 20 skills, so it must suck, is getting old you know.

Reaper Alim.4176:

posthumecaver.6473:

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

Wow you really are a case of misery loves company. ANet guts your class, so now you are looking to have ANet gut a somewhat similar but not as high dps class. When you ask for behind the door nerfs make sure to clarify these nerfs are only needed in sPvP game mode.

On a more serious note. I’ve always believed that the Elementalist just had too long CDs. Even more so since HoT, this was the biggest reason I did not play my Tempest much except for backline support in WvW. Now I find myself just not playing Ele or Tempest anymore.

I’ve seen Elementalist profession in GW2 as THE class that ANet just don’t know how to balance decently. In effect to this ANet just seems to be ok with rotating it in and out of meta since it can not strike a balance with Tempest.

Nerf the Ancestral Grace not really I am really looking for a buff to RTL.

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

Alekt.5803:

posthumecaver.6473:

I think for the GMs for every line they must give an option like Fresh Air, if you take that trait, it will reset the CD of the Overload for that line, this way Tempest might have attunement dancing of Ele instead being locked out of that attunement for 20s. Earth resets lets if you get a hit more then %50 HP lets say, Fire if you can stack more 15 stack of might, Water If you used you healing skill in the last 3s and lost %50 your HP again (I am open for better ideas for this one…..)

This is the reason currently I only Overload out of Air only to stun break, against competent people you have 0 chance to complete an Overload anyway.

I don’t know. You’d combine Fresh Air with some Fire “Fresh Air” to constantly reset the attunements, for a nearly infinite damage. Would we really want that? Electric Discharge -> Sunspot Crit) -> Electric Discharge Crit -> Sunspot…

Fresh Air is a play style not everyone wishes to play.

I choose for Fire Reset getting 15 stacks of might, which something you can’t do that easily with current Tempest like critting, you have to build the Ele special way to get that much might stacks, that mean you will have to sacrifice something else.

Sure FA resets of Attunments are not every bodies business but having 20s attunements CDs are also not.

Ok for Cleric but Cele stop right there…..

The problem of Cele the classes that does not need Cele using it, Engi (tankiest crap we have at the moment with full offensive Amuklets), Reaper (nightmare with a combination of Power/Condi/Sustain), Ranger(Too much sustain and damage),… but Ele in its current design is made to function with Cele.

I have no problem that Ele get a functioning pure burst/DPS spec (not S/X that clearly does not work), I am not against complete redo of Ele (but I am afraid what will come out with current level of incompetence, a class that nothing to do with the one I main-ed for the last 4 years….) Ele should stop pigeon-ed to one single build, this is not Guild War 2 I started playing 4 years ago, #nochoicematrixexist.

Exactly the same opinion what ever we say here they wan’t listen so money talks.

I stop playing my favorite class in the game for me in PVP and I will not spend a cent to this game until they come to their sense.

When I started this game 4 years ago the reason I buy it I can play the top end PVP, there was no grind to be able to do meaningful PVP and build diversity.

Now build diversity is gone because of this ESL dream which will never happen for GW2, for the sake of 100 people and the unbalance they create, whole player base must be punished, that makes sense isn’kitten I wish they stop one second and look around, how many people started PVPing and how many people stop PVPing after ESL.

Alekt.5803:

Regarding the Tempest is PvP, the orientation for a DPS Tempest.

Hardy Conduit: Protection duration gained when Overloading is increased to 4, up from 3.

Tempestuous Aria: Old trait is now combined with Gale Song. Tempestuous Aria increases Weakness duration by 25%. Striking a foe affected by Weakness grants 1 stack of might for 10 seconds, 1 second internal cooldown. When above 10 stacks of might, gain 3 seconds of quickness on critical hit, 30 seconds ICD.

Grand Master

Imbued Melodies: The boon duration now applies to other weapons too.

Lucid Singularity: In addition to the current effect, Lucid Singularity charges you with an Echo after completing an overload, you are charged with an Echo dependant on the overload completed. The echo detonates three seconds after completing the overload.

Earth: Blast the ground around you with sharp splinters applying two stacks of Torment, Cripple and dealing 202 (0.5) damage. This is a blast finisher.

Water: A current of water forms at your feet. After a short delay, it explodes in a wave that knocks down foes in a small radius and applies vigor to allies struck in the wave. Allies struck are also healed for a small amount.

Air: You are charged with current and the closest three target are struck with thunder bolt within a 600 radius applying Blindness, Weakness and dealing 266 (0.66) damage. Gain Fury for each enemy struck.

Fire: You are engulfed with a cleansing fire. For the next three seconds, you clear 1 damaging condition every seconds. If no condition is cleared that way, you apply two seconds of buring around you in a 240 radius.

Overload

Overload: Reduce Overload Recharge time to 15 seconds, down from 20.

Overload Fire: Upon completion radius becomes 300 and energize allies in the area with fiery power, granting a buff improving their power and condition damage by 100 for 10 seconds. This buff is pulsing every seconds upon completion.

I think for the GMs for every line they must give an option like Fresh Air, if you take that trait, it will reset the CD of the Overload for that line, this way Tempest might have attunement dancing of Ele instead being locked out of that attunement for 20s. Earth resets lets if you get a hit more then %50 HP lets say, Fire if you can stack more 15 stack of might, Water If you used you healing skill in the last 3s and lost %50 your HP again (I am open for better ideas for this one…..)

This is the reason currently I only Overload out of Air only to stun break, against competent people you have 0 chance to complete an Overload anyway.

Kyon.9735:

^
Yes, how could have I completely forgotten about that given that I even created a thread weeks ago for it.

Kyon.9735:

I believe it’s about time to revert a couple of simple nerfs that was the direct result of the PvP Celestial and might stacking meta. This won’t be game changing but should be “baseline” for the Elementalist.

• Blinding Ashes – Revert ICD to 5s. I honestly think this won’t be enough even if reverted as there’s a lot of pulsing AoEs now.
• Drake’s Breath – Revert burning Duration to 3s.
• Ring of Fire – Revert burn stacks when crossing the threshold to 3 stacks.
• Burning Fire – Using Cantrips grants 2 or 3 stacks of Might again

For other traits that got nerfed without relation to the celestial and might stacking meta:
• One with Fire – Activating a signet grants Fire Aura again
• Ride the Lightning – Revert CD to 20s.

Regarding GM Traits
I agree that there are no actual good offensive GM Traits in the Tempest trait line.

Base Ele might be better than Tempest for DPS builds in PvP?
I’ve thought about this a few times. The Tempest traitline offers so little for a DPS Tempest in PvP. Sure, the overloads are part of the powercreep but given that there are no amulets suitable for DPS Tempests to be forced to somewhat facetank a little while overloading, it might actually be better to not take it at all. Problem is, Scepter is still a joke with all the power hate currently in the game.

This is something I have proven correct (at least for me) in WvW solo roaming. I completely dropped Tempest trait line because I had little ways to take advantage of it. I usually didn’t have enough self-sustain after taking in a few hits after overloading in my non-bunker Tempest build. Funny to say, I had more success on DPS base Ele DD/Scepter than any DPS Tempest build I’ve used.

I still use Tempest is S/X because has no answer for that pesky stealthers, Thiefs, Mesmer, at least Air Overload is a deterrent for them, otherwise you just have to guess with Phoenix but I don’t like to guess with a kill on 15s CD and one of my few big hitters.

Kyon.9735:

Note: This is not a Cleric Amulet/Bunker Tempest QQ. This concerns Anet’s initial design for the specialization and the current direction of the game

To any mod that thinks that this should be moved to Elementalist Subforum, please read this first because it’s generally aimed for PvP. It requires the opinions of non-ele players as well and posts moved to class subforums just die in general.

Tempest Specialization was created to support. This statement is supported by the Tempest specialization weapon which is a Warhorn, Tempest Traits and utilities, and Anet’s statements regarding Tempests pre-HoT (which can be found in their various streams in twitch).

The direction of the game is changing to something more fast paced, more action packed, and more exciting gameplay. I fully support that and I think it’s for the better of the game. However, Tempests were not created for this kind of playstyle because they were designed to prolong fights. With these changes in the direction of the game, I believe Tempests require an overall redesign.

First of all, let’s list all the facts that we know about Tempests:

• Tempests have a lot of damage mitigation skills and traits – True
• Tempests have a lot of healing abilities -True
• Tempests has a lot of skills which are PBAOE – True
• Tempests have good access to boons – True
• Tempests have good access to condition cleanse – True
• Tempests have a lot of weapon skills – True

Really looks good on paper, right? Now let me explain why these won’t work for non support Tempests in the current direction of the game.

Damage mitigation tools
Tempests has a plethora of access to damage mitigation using their traits, utilities, and weapon skills which is a must to compensate having the lowest base HP and Armor in the game.

• Outdated bruiser traits – Most of these traits require the Tempest to be hit. With the current amulets available and the direction of the game, people want to avoid soaking up damage at all. This effect is doubled on Tempests because of their bad base stats. These traits should be changed to something that promotes active play in defense instead of waiting to get hit.
• Outrageous Cooldowns – The active defenses of Tempests have very huge cool downs. Cantrips, Conjures (Earth Shield), and Arcane Shield are really good in paper but are outdated as well. Arcane Shield blocks 3 attacks but will easily get removed because a lot of skills now are unblockable, not to mention that there are lots of multi-hit skills.
• Outdated traits and weapon skills – Blind used to be a very good active damage mitigation effect. Scepter has good access to Blind along with Burning Ashes. However, most skills now are pulsing AoEs which completely counters blind.

Access to Healing skills
Tempests have abundant access to healing from traits, weapon skills, and utilities. Healing Power scales a lot better with Toughness than Vitality and all amulets with the Healing Power/Toughness combination was removed because most, if not all, bunker builds of all classes will definitely use it.

• Lots of heals, bad scaling – With the recent changes to Tempest Healing and its scaling, Anet is promoting Tempests to stat for healing power. However, there are no Toughness/Healing power combination amulets left in PvP. Having this kind of amulet promotes bunker builds but this is one of the core stats that Tempests need regardless of build following the recent changes.

Tempest AoEs and PBAoEs
Tempest is hands down one of the best classes with regards to having access to AoEs. My only gripe with this are Overloads and Scepter

• Overloads are PBAoE – Plain and simple. Overloading for DPS is suicide in the coming High Risk High Reward meta. It requires Tempests to be in harm’s way and you can’t dodge while overloading. Not to mention that it requires both waiting and channeling to get the full effects. It is exclusively designed for bruisers, not for casters.

• Scepter – I don’t even know where to start… Scepter needs huge buffs aside from Auto Attacks and Shatterstone.

Tempest, lord of the boons
Tempests, like the old Elementalists, have the best access to multiple boons. You can get Fury, Swiftness, Protection, Vigor, and Regen by just proccing an Aura if traited correctly. With the new Diviner Amulet, Fresh Air Eles can get permanent access to these boons.

• Boons won’t cover bad base stats – 40% damage reduction from protection means nothing if you have very low HP and Armor. You can still get condi-bombed or bursted even if you pair it with Scrapper runes. Heck, you may even get below 30% HP just by trying to stomp the Necro NPC in HoTM with protection in Diviner’s Amulet.

• Boon Rip, Boon Steal, and Boon Corrupt – Mesmers and Necros will probably still be rampant in the coming meta. Thieves are arguable. Permanent access to these boons means nothing to those classes.

Tempests and Condition Cleanse
Tempest, again, is top notch in this area. With the correct traits and runes, they were able to hold against the rampant condi spam meta for the past few seasons.

• Cleanses are exclusively locked to Defensive Traits; Water and Earth – There were no changes to conditions in general. Conditions will still be spammed to no end and locking access to cleanse in defensive traits promotes bunker playstyle which is the complete opposite of the upcoming meta. Some may argue that there are sigils and runes available for these but then again, the rate of condition application is too much for sigils and runes alone. Having the lowest vitality which is the main passive counter to conditions doesn’t help either.

4 Attunements, 20 weapon skills, and 4 overloads
Tempests along with Engineers have most access to different weapon skills. This is one of their core mechanics and one of the reason why Elementalists were touted as a high skill floor class prior to the discovery of bunker builds.

• Times have changed but cooldowns keep getting nerfed – Elementalists, like engineers, don’t get interrupted when changing attunements (kits for engineers). These weapon skills were designed to be chained to actually deal decent damage. But as we all know, 20 weapon skills are not enough to carry a class especially if the vital ones have high cooldowns.

Core Mechanics and Base stats
All classes have different core mechanics paired with their base stats. Comparing other light classes, Necros have 2nd HP bars while Mesmers have access to stealth, Invulnerability, and blocks.

Elementalists were given minimal mobility and evade frames, no access to stealth, and High CD invulnerability and block skills/utilities to pair with its lowest HP and Armor, but has abundant access to healing. Their design was downright reliant on Healing which then causes a domino effect to taking more Toughness. As stated earlier, these 2 stats are core stats for any Tempest build following the recent nerfs to Tempest Healing scaling but these stats also promotes bunker playstyle on any other class.

TL;DR
I am not asking for Cleric/Celestial Amulet to be returned. I just want a decent non-bunker competitive-tier viable DPS build for Tempests to go along with the upcoming High-risk high-reward meta. We will certainly see people use Magi Amulets but there are many players who are sick of being healbots. Tempests should not be locked to a single viable boring healbot build.

Very very TL;DR
Tempests were designed to prolong fights and this isn’t the direction Anet is going for PvP.

For those who really love or loved the game, we need your opinions on how you think Tempests should be designed for the current direction of the game.

I am agreeing with all of your points but there is one more thing I like to mention it.

All of Ele weapons,except Scepter has power and condi mixed in their damages, because of that all of power coefficients of weapon attacks are laughable for Ele, specially using Marauder or a defensive Amulet makes a barely a difference specially for D/X variants.

That is the reason Cele was working so good for Ele, because of this, if they don’t want to give Toughness to Amulets ok fine, but D/X to function they have to introduce an Amulet with Power/Precision/Ferocity/Condi/Healing/Vitality they can leave the toughness out…and I don’t want extra stat budget, just turn back the nerfs about might stacking for Ele, Ele will be Ok.

Or buff the power co-efficient of Dagger so it will not be joke with Marauder, there is nothing hitting harder then 2.5K (don’t tell me Firegrab, if you can run in this meta with paper armor with dagger off-hand then you are not a bare mortal).

Now look an old post of me

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-ele/5389201

This is when Ele was OP during the Cele Meta I was calling for the nerfs for might on cantrip or Blinding Ashes 5s CD, those are nerfed just because of Cele Amulet. Those traits were introduced during the dark ages of Ele, Summer 2013 to Summer 2014, remember the time people ask you change classes when you enter to a match as Ele.

In those hopeless days developers saw the miserable state of Ele and introduced those traits, now Cele is gone, but those nerfs are still there. Wouldn’t be logical to expect from developers to make 2 + 2 = 4 and de-nerfs those traits when they remove Cele-

Do we have to wait one year until they wake up?

Ohh you mean Ele are masturbation objects for PVP players, you just look their direction and they will die.

No my friend Ele is an extinct race now PVP, you can’t kill one if you don’t see one.

JediSange.1645:

People stopped exploring things like Fresh Air builds because of how good D/F Auramancer was.

I love this type of comments, if FA is so good why don’t you explore it.

Best Fresh Air player that I know, Phantaram, just quit the class because FA is so good, do you want more exploring?

Why should risk epilepsy by clicking 100 buttons with a FA ele while I can just click 2 buttons with a Revenant and do the same thing.

BlackBeard.2873:

“Removed the Cleric’s Amulet”

GG, ele is no longer welcome in pvp. Class is 100% unviable without both toughness and healing power, due to the defensive mechanics (just tank + heal) being so terrible. 15s less CD on arcane shield doesn’t fix it.

Enter the next 1 year dark age for eles.

We are already dark ages like for 6 months.

It is carbon copy of the situation 2 years ago before the Cele Amulet.

We are rock bottom at PVP what we got more nerfs, yeah good riddance.

Glyph CD reduction trait in the Air trait line has no effect on Glyph of Elemental Power.

Other Glyph are getting reduced CDs but not GoEP.

Can be seen in the attachment.

Actually I thought little bit more about it.

Default version reset the CD of the Earth Attunement every 60s, If Staff or Off-Hand Dagger equipped reduce the ICD to 5s.

So cancer can’t benefit it

When ANet announced they will remove Cele Stat and not compensate ele any other way, I told I will stop playing Ele, but it comes out I stop playing whole game.

All the classes after Ele are so boring, I could not force me to play it.

Before I left the game I refused the play most boring thing in the game, heal bot and found a quasi working build only thing that was disturbing was lack of toughness which can be compensated with spec-ing to earth and using stone heart.

Well if you that ok you don’t die but you don’t do any damage also and you can’t leave the earth because you will be one shot-able from 13K HP or so without toughness.

So I was thinking today, the thing we need with ele, an effect like fresh air for earth/stone heart, remove the CD of earth atunement if you are critically hit. This can really save the glass Ele and can really make the glass staff ele return to PVP.

Drop your Lava Font, switch to earth, drop your Lava Font switch to Earth, if people want to melee pound you, which is the biggest weakness of staff Ele, they will melt, literally.

Sure the problem will again be heal bot, if it gets that trait it will be immortal, I hate heal bot is boring but it is also making dps specs lackluster and boring.

I know that this can’t be implemented with heal bot but would nice gimmick I think.

That is another nice side effect of, ohh we are going for ESL, for that we have to reduce the visual effect so people can see something in twitch, screew all the other people who have no interest in ESL making harder to spot auras.

Any reasonable people will place a setting saying increased effect/reduced effect in Options but not with ANet, they decide we all should be ESL fans and be done with it.

ReaperJr.5967:

posthumecaver.6473:

To say the truth, I am playing like old D/D and I am not using Overloads offensively at all, only defensively as stun breakers

Burn people and try to out sustain them with protection/stone heart and lots of stun breaks…. at least overload are good at that, stun break every 5s

Unfortunately, dagger offhand only works against players of lower skill level. And it’s effectiveness starts diminishing at ruby. Probably can get you through ruby to diamond but I think it will be near impossible to get to legendary with it.

Pity though :/

Because of that I think it is time that they un-nerf the ride the lightning.

The reason why they nerfed is not there anymore, Ele even with reduced CD of the RtL can’t compete with the mobility of the Thief or Revenant.

At least CD increase if does not hit anybody should go, if you play D/D you have no immunities, no block, only way to survive, go away, heal and comeback.

May be if D/D will suuck for another 6 months they will consider it.

To say the truth, I am playing like old D/D and I am not using Overloads offensively at all, only defensively as stun breakers

Burn people and try to out sustain them with protection/stone heart and lots of stun breaks…. at least overload are good at that, stun break every 5s

What hurts me most, when everybody pounding you and you can’t get out of earth because of the stone heart, we can’t deal any damage back that is the worst part.

That 1 stack of bleed and damage is horrible from AA.

And those troll Daredevil thiefs that damage with dodge rolls, one guy dodged 5 times yesterday without using any weapons skills, ok I know they have 3 dodges but how are they getting 2 dodges back in such a short time.

I nearly use the same setup, I could not found anything else somehow working.

But if somebody catch you without protection or thief steals your protection then it is a sad story, 8K – 9K hits

FrownyClown.8402:

Ulion.5476:

Scepter is about burst damage. Outside of that it could not compete with any other weapon dps. The damage increase enables it to not be drastically over shadowed by dagger auto attack damage. The normal scepter builds condition/FA got a boost.

Honestly I feel like the damage factor is fine. The main issue for me is we are at a disadvantage in 1v1 vs other dps classes because we are very vulnerable to enemies that can constantly get within a 200 range of us. We are basically out done by revenants, thieves and rampage warriors.

This is the reason I asked in the other thread for dps specs, so in fire or air specialisations, a minor trait that will take aura on overload at the start of the Overload casts.

If you play D/X, if somebody open on you first thing you will do pop shocking aura, that will enable the stop the opener of the enemy and start from there.

Scepter lacks that you have nothing to prevent full burst opener on you and then it is always a down hill fight, you can’t kite Revenants, Thiefs, they will just teleport to you.

In current form Aura’s from Overloads are useless for DPS specs, Auramancer needs those for team support but dps specs needs them for it own survival, not for measy healing but real aura effects to survive.

A Shocking Aura to slow them down, Fire Aura to turn defense to offense, Frost Aura for mitigation and Magnetic Aura when Guaardian casting me True Shot not 5s later.

When I play S/X and not D/X most thing I miss is always the shocking aura, no Rev/Thief will let me complete 5s channel to get Shocking Aura.

Wolfric.9380:

Agree with FrownyClown

if you want to touch Tempest without buffing the Healbot buff Tempestious Aria (add 20% CD on Shouts).
One mistake is to focus on single builds. Currently ele seems to focus only on support build and as option fresh air … This is not diversity.

Ele had always 3 viable builds Staff Bunker, D/D Cele and S/X FA, devs never gave us more then that.

Now there is only healbot left, excuse me if I try to get back S/X FA.

FrownyClown.8402:

These changes won’t fix underlying core ele issues IMO. Plus it would just make air overload over the top in terms of easy aoe damage. Bolt to the heart damage modifier is too good to be a master trait. Maybe if it was on enemies at 25% health i’d agree to having it there.

Buff fire to support condition builds so people could use mercenary amulets, buff scepter cast times and possibly reduce cooldowns on arcane skills.

Arcane traitline needs a few changes to compete with tempest now too.

Air is probably the last trait line that needs to be touched.

As I said previously it can return to master tier with the %33 activation range as it was previous to the Spezialisation patch. That was one thing I never understood why did they change it anyway, before the specialization patch S/X FA was meh, so why did they took this trait to GMit was not like that Air line was getting extra damage.

You want to damage to condi, I want that our single target damage finally start hurting somebody. All the damage in air line 1.1K, 1.5K hits with S/F, we don’t have anything like Staff 5 of Revenant hit like 8K, Sword 2 hits like 6K, Sword 3 for 5K, Ele just get small bites and eventually enemy heals up and get out of execute range.

And don’t tell me about Dragon Tooth 5K damage which you can only reliably land on a downed body or Phoenix for 5K every 15s.

And making Air Overload OP, that thing hit for 1.5K if you stay inside of it, with BoH it will hit for 2K if you sit inside and take all the hits, if anybody do that he/she has more problem then OPness of BoH.

Talindra.4958:

lol it will make ele a god :P
and if so, other skills will be nerfed. too much work.. prefer derv make new content new map new strategy for pvp or pve

Having bolt to heart with fresh air and having an Aura at the begining of Overload cast for a dps spec would make ele god, I don’t think so, I wished it would be that easy.

That is the reason I wrote there to make it minor trait, put additional functionality to GM minor so for the people who is not using Elite Specs it will not matter.

If they don’t build mechanism providing the functionality only to buff DPS specs and not to Bunker specs, how are they going to fix elemantalist.

Everybody accepts, it was a marketing gig from ANET to make Elite specs a must, now if you buff anyway the Elite spec, it will also buff the bunkers and I guess everybody wants to have something else then cancer cleric Ele.

So if they don’t put something on Air/Fire which effect Elite specs only for DPS then we will be stuck with this crap healbot for a very long time.

Yeah I messed up there little bit what I want to achieve because of the shacky gorund of the DPS ele, to let it take the Elemental Bastion heal more easier/guaranteed way.

So Elemental Bastion provides the heal from Aura and if Unstable Conduit provide the Aura at the begining of the Overload channel with a minor trait in Air or Fire (preferably in Air while I want to run Scepter/X FA build) will help little bit with sustain for DPS while because of the CC spam flying around I can rarely cast full Overload even with one stack of Stability.

Which will free me taking water, while it sucks anyway without healing power.

Since the day Bolt to the Heart competes with Fresh Air, I am missing dearly this trait, so many time I bring my opponent low but lacking the kill power, considering the state of the offensive builds of the Elemantalist, it is not big deal to ask not let BtH to compete with Fresh Air, place it somewhere below and make again to activate at %33 instead of %50.

2nd change let the Elemental Bastion Aura activate at the start of the Overload channeling not when it succesfully completes. I accept this can be problematic with a cleric Ele, so place the trait in Air or Fire line, no cleric Ele goes to these trait lines, better as a minor, so if somebody is not using Tempest, it will not look weird.

The problem with condi builds, condi in sPVP is an attrition war, you have to able to survive 10-15s to be able to kill somebody, Necro’s with Shroud are much better on this.

When I play condi, I don’t have the survivablity of the attrition and I don’t have other damaging conditions like Necro or Mesmer, so I am lacking the damage.

So you have to go hybrid and have some power damage, so basically you need power/precision/condi damage/vitality/healing in your gear and guess what there is no such gear.

So idea/build born death….

Most broken thing anything about the Ele, in all other games the class that has the lowest HP/Armor is the nuke class, you will expect from such a class to one shot people.

Now lets look to GW2 Ele, if you go to most offensive build that you can think of with 0 defense and even you chain combo 7 skills perfectly you will bring somebody to %20 HP but he still lives and you need another 15s to be able to do the same damage.

So we are not allowed kill people, we are not allowed to survive, so what is the existence purpose of Ele

Exactly my point, once the most fun class just became the most boring class, click overload and run like a headless chicken for 5s.

Why play Tempest, while I tried to play arcane D/D even with max cleanses I can’’t keep up with Necros and I don’t have the heals also.

So my Ele enjoys PVE but I no way masochist enough to play Tempest because of the boredom or without Specialisation because I don’t enjoy being rekt.

Supreme.3164:

Wing.5487:

I main Ele in PVP, a while now, not sure how many hours i have, im not pro im one of those mediocre guys playing in pvp w a class they like.
Anyhow since the patch hit i voiced alot of my oppinion on negative side of changes and nerfs to us. We still suck no worries, but hey at least we have one entire role where we can excel..
Anyhow here it is, music was random nightcore set playing on my second screen, this is my first ever upload so don’t be too rough on me.
Anyhow im just happy i can showcase that we DON’T ENTIRELY SUCK! We are good support at least.. even tho we do very little damage..

Enjoy the video, comments appreciated!: )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMrU4xfXbFE

Problem my friend…the class was not advertised as GW2 version of the MonK, AKA the description of the class say completely otherwise, right now the class is entirely being balanced around the support role, everything else around it it’s or has already been nerfed to the ground and made completely unusable.

My problem is, I fell in love with D/D from Daphoenix days, so don’t accuse to me to being a FoTMer, I played the D/D in its highest and lowest days, I never deserted my beloved spec, even it sucked more then one year.

It is again in the same state but this time I have no nerves to take the same punishment, so I am looking other classes similar to Ele, mainly Engi and Druid.

If someday D/D will be viable again I will play it but noway I will play that brain dead 0 damage cleric E/W/T.