Guild Wars 2

Not really as simple as you make it seem

Lots of mostly PvE (fairweather) players jump into WvW when their server is dominating to K-Train

Are we going to include EotM population too? Or only “full-time” WvW players? Can’t measure that can we?

TWO YEARS LATER

People still haven’t learned to play the game it is amazing!

Thief is actually meant to stealth and run away from fights

You know how I know this? ITS BEEN TWO YEARS!

Please quit the game and send me your gold because stealth aint changing boys!

The list of unblockable/dodgable/etc abilities in the game is much larger than just one rune set #6 bonus

Lettuce.2945:

Black Frog.9274:

Lettuce.2945:

Stopped reading after “zerg does the work for me” part.

I guess I can understand how mass cast swiftness and horn boons could evade your understanding. It totally makes more sense to extend the 60 secs of swiftness that never dissipates with some more runes. It’s probably better you don’t post. I’m sure you’ve got more forum warrior-ing and theory crafting to do; winning interwebz arguments is srs bizness.

So where’s that awesome P/P build you’ve developed?

Forum warring? I’m not the one K-Training and going “I know more than you on this specific subject”. And a good p/p build? Just run either SA d/p and p/p or panic strikes with smokescreen, shadow step, and refuge. Not that hard. Gear is up to you. As for me being a forum warrior, I lol’ed. I do plenty of outnumbered fights every day in wvw, unlike you, K-Training. Don’t believe me? Video evidence says it all.

Here’s a 3 v 15+.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDxwyJc_1jg

2 v 8+ with hard razzing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3jcrHSDdPQ

I’m Outta Nowhere in the vids. Enjoy. Very different from that mindless K training of yours, no?

Should’ve recorded from your POV

Your boy is a keyboard turning skill clicker using full SA to carry him

Nice vid

LOL

It’s called human nature – we naturally form groups/cliques and attempt to differentiate between each other thus leading to exclusion

Going for PPT is useless don’t frustrate yourself play for fights/fun

Awesome video +1

Chaos Archangel.5071:

CI is more survivable because of:

30 Chaos – Boon Duration & 300 toughness. This makes a difference, and synergizes with the entire tree. The boon duration extends the boons from Staff/Chaos Armor/Interrupts (usually from 3s to 4s).

Debilitating Dissipation – AoE weakness is nothing to sleep on.

Much higher access to protection Via interrupts and Illusionary Membrane (Chaos Minor)

Interrupts! Interrupts!

Yeah I know…

I do not think it is as significant as good positioning

AoE weakness gets cleansed so fast it is negligible – Ele/Shout War

3/4s of Protection… yeah I don’t think it’s going to save you from a Thief or 300 toughness

It is all really minor to me doesn’t make much of a difference the best way for a Mesmer to survive is to have good positioning and good usage of decoy/blink/f4 which shatter build helps with

It’s all preference in the end – which is why anyone would even use a Mesmer right now – There is no question there are way easier/effective classes to use right now

Mogar.9216:

I’m going to throw in my 2c on this topic.
Imo who you are fighting has a lot to do with why shatter is better than ci. Speaking from my own experience , the real good bunkers from top premades are not the same as your standard guys . They are just slightly better , how much better? To me they are about 15-20% harder to kill. That 15-20% imo is more or less the difference between CI and Shatter.
Shatter hits about 15-20% harder and is 15-20% softer than CI.
I run a build more like CI than shatter, in 95% of my matches I do just fine vs cele bunkers. But I have to say when I face the real good players from real good premades. I feel I just don’t have enough DPS to make a difference. Sure give me enough time I WILL wear down a bunker but the amount of time it takes is just TOO long . As a roaming dps mesmer’s job is to win 1 v 1 or finish any 2 v1 or 3 v 2 in your favour as fast as possible. I feel my dps is just not getting the job done vs the high end players, that extra 15-20% damage would make all the difference. However I still don’t run shatter because I’m just not good enough to use it as solo Q , way too unforgiving. Like I said about the damage is good enough for 95% of the matches anyway :P

Pretty much this ^

Why is CI more survivable? The minor traits in chaos? the random boon for BI? The ability to ’rupt more?

In my experience it is just as squishy kittenter

CI needs a buff IMO it does not do enough the grand master minor trait in Chaos is crap as well

Everything in the shatter build is good every minor/major trait

Believe it or not when I play Warr/Ele Celestial I can literally ignore mesmers for 5-10 seconds the damage is pathetic these days or sustain is OP whatever you want to say

Shatter is not “slightly” more damage it was WAY more damage – not even close

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Quadox.7834:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

If I’m not mistaken, Helseth, Misha, and Supcutie no longer play Mesmer competitively. Not sure about Zeromis.

You are mistaken

I’d like to catch some footage in that case. What was the last tourney they were playing Mes in?

Edit: Wait a minute waitaminute… You’re telling me 4 people are deciding the Meta for Mesmer?

The last ESL yesterday included Misha on Mes

Supcutie’s team defeated DoD AND Ellusive eventually losing to Abjured (who doesn’t)

He was using Mes

Sure why not!?

How about
Axe#3 blast finisher
Axe #2 whirl finisher
Dagger#5 blast finisher

Still waiting for this maybe 2016

Neptune.2570:

Fay.2357:

witcher.3197:

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your problem is your assumption as to why only shatter has made an appearance in top torny play. You could make arguments based on Mesmer vs Other classes as a whole, but you can also point fingers at those few top players who’ve run shatter (and not something different) themselves.

I’m curios about what “superior utility” shatter brings over lockdown builds. Is it portal? Because if its portal there’s plenty of room for portal on the bar as those builds aren’t so tied to their survival utils (decoy + blink).

In terms of CC, lockdown/rupt builds far outshine anything a typical shatter build can hope to dream of bringing to the table. Shatter is AoE burst damage with boon strip to keep it sexy. Other than that, Shatter Mes has to gtfo of the way almost all of the time.

The OP is rather mistaken. For a long time now, 20/20/30 CI shatter has been the meta shatter build to use.

It’s so meta that nobody ever uses it in tournaments. The forum fandom of ~r30 players does not reflect what’s viabe.

Barely anyone uses mesmers at all in tounaments. What is viable is simply what works best in the team comps that exist today, and glassy burst shatter isn’t that effective against cele groups.

Disagree with this completely. Shatter is actually a huge counter to the cele Meta, if you lose to a cele engi/ele 1v1, you were likely outplayed. It’s funny how shatter Mesmer (The biggest counter to the cele meta imo) hasn’t been able to form a counter meta. The reason is actually because of how much cele bruisers outperform bunkers atm. Mesmer is not a self sustaining profession. At high level team play, you need to co-ordinate with your ‘Carers’ so to speak. And traditionally that’s always been the thief and guard to assist the Mes. The problem is, bunkers have been 100% replaced by cele bruisers, as they hold a point just as well, 1v1/2v2 better, have more mobility, and more dps. This only leaves room for self sustaining professions, hence why we are seeing 4 cele and S/D thief teams (All specs with there personal self-sustain). This leaves a Mesmer in a match-up vs the infamous S/D thief + the combined condi pressure that all cele’s bring and suddenly it’s a tough life for the shatter Mes.

TL:DR – Shatter Mesmers are the perfect counter to the cele Meta, but Bunkers have been completely eclipsed leaving the Shatter Mes without the support it needs. A buff to bunker guards will see shatter mes back in the meta imo.

Gotta agree with this guy if I am at range and not fighting on the point I can kill cele classes – which is why Shatter> CI

CI does not have enough damage and is way too reliant on teammates for the burst – CI does not add any damage and if your teammates do not coordinate with you the immob is worthless

The biggest reason Shatter > CI is being able to use the shatter skills without any clones or illusions – For example you just MW for a burst and you get counter pressured and want to use F4 but do not have any clones up

Also the double ranged is superior – CI is better with a focus or pistol I can not give away the damage of GS or the superior defense of Staff

Just my 2c

The Thief spamming heartseeker? That happens everywhere

Highlie.7641:

ohh 1k hours……
Thieves are a lootbag, stop deluding yourself.

This is why you won’t ever get better

But yeah keep going

More forum QQ

The devs will be buffing thieves very soon! – not

yolo swaggins.2570:

Simon.3794:

@yolo, it’s not that i don’t understand, its you who don’t understand whats the meaning of meta and even trying to argue that meta is created by normal players lol
the only “meta” that is created by normal yoloq hotjoin player is MM necro, turret engis lol.

Maybe I don’t understand your definition. Because that isn’t the definition of meta.

Narkodx.1472:

You’re in the Thief forum where everyone considers the class broken and useless

It’s almost as if no one watches the PvP tournaments every single week that is full of “useless” thieves – I wonder why they continue to be used

Everyone is not PvP material nor are they top tier. Why are you basing how OP the thief is off of how well top tier pvp thieves play?

EDIT: No, you and Simon have a good history of some of the most blind hatred for the thief I have ever seen. I can’t take your words seriously because its obvious that they are based on irrationality. A thief outplayed you, get over it. I’m done trying to argue.

Yea bro you got me figured out except for the fact I have 1k hours on Thief and it was my second toon to 80

Unlike most of you I do not cry about Thief being soooo weak – QQ

all is vain

What are your guys thoughts on this build I see some Guards running in PvP tournaments

0/1/6/1/6

Same medi traits and utils but with the benefits of virtue traits IX and X give you lots of support with stomping and condi clear

Weapons? Hammer + Sc/F is what I saw Kaypud using how about Staff?

I feel like it is a nice balance between Bunker and Medi Guard I think I saw both Celestial and Zerker ammy being used with this build

Thoughts on how it shapes up in this meta?

Juba.8406:

Narkodx.1472:

GS does less damage than what? Last I checked it does the most damage of all Warrior weapons the issue is obviously in PvP people do not stand still

Mending + Physical Training definitely needs some love and same thing with Shield Master

The rest is where you are getting kinda crazy – Fast Hands no traiting? Deceptive Evasion no traiting? Evasive Arcana no traiting? I do not see this happening ever the other classes will cry way too much

Brawlers Recovery is the only way to get away from Cleansing Ire – especially if you are not using the Longbow and are using two melee sets for example with difficult to land burst skills keep in mind you can augment it with the sigil that removes condis on weapon swap as well or something like shout runes with shouts – I like it where it is and use it in a build with no points in defense/cleansing ire

PvE aside please.
between all Warrior weapons, GS got almost the weakest AA, Axe AA can out damage 100b without rooting self, got no utility at all, no reliable condition application, no fields and no CC.

keep in mind that i did not demand more damage for GS, just raising the cleave count to 5.

Fast Hands and Cleansing Ire are 2 chains around Warrior neck, we always forced to spend a basic of 7 points before doing anything else, at least i want one of those chains broken.

and no, Brawlers Recovery is way inferior than the CI+BurstMastery combination, its just the location of Brawlers Recovery is just wrong for both meta and off-meta builds.

but if Brawlers Recovery in Arms line it will get used and picked, we might see a combination of (Brawlers Recovery + CI + Furious) ,making both the Arms line and the trait much more viable.

You pretty much want buffs with no repercussions of balance or anything

Which weapon cleaves 5 targets? Usually this is reserved for AoE

Fast Hands/Cleansing Ire being baseline is pretty much a pipe dream

Mesmers want deceptive evasion baseline
Elementalists want evasive arcana baseline
Necros want terror baseline
etc
etc

Yeah brawlers recovery is inferior so? There is always something better than the other that is the point of traits

Warrior with fast hands cleansing ire brawlers recovery burst mastery all in one build… ok man balanced

Short Answer

sPvP = always 5 v 5 standardized gear and amulets – easy to balance

WvW = 50v90 or anywhere in between with no standard to stats food buffs or gear – impossible to balance

PvE = Cruise Control – no need to balance

Martin.6381:

Narkodx.1472:

Not enough players

Not enough balanced matchmaking or incentive. That’s why we’re on the forums posting to make changes for the better.

I don’t disagree but what would Tier A have? 20? maybe 30 players? While Tier F has 3000 players who play 3 games a day for the daily

Counter question – When has Anet backed away from a change they made and actually admitted to making a mistake?

Not enough players

Daroon.1736:

Narkodx.1472:

You need to realize there is a LARGE amount of people participating in “pvp” who actually have no interest in PvP

These are the same players who go on champ trains and karma trains – They are interested in one thing and one thing only EASY REWARDS

It is a necessary evil – let them play with each other in practice mode

I Agree – however that LARGE amount of people probably accounts for around 80% – 90% of the PvP Playerbase and they are participating solely in Custom arenas to get their EASY daily Rewards.

The problem is that what they get to ‘play’ is not an enjoyable balanced or fair PvP experience that might encourage them to come back learn, and there bye increase the VERY SMALL overall active PvP playerbase.

Why is PvP being developed from the top down? All the resources and efforts put into balance and matchmaking are being done for those VERY SMALL number of players taking part in unranked and ranked matches. Is it any wonder that the PvP playerbase is so small when the entry point for most players is being totally ignored and is a complete mess?

Instead of trying to endlessly tweak formulas to create fair matches for the very few, A little thought should be given to fixing the mode that the MANY play.

It is definitely not 80 or 90% in custom arenas compared to unranked/ranked – in fact most of them probably play under 5 matches and go back to the karma train in EotM

These players are not interested in having fair matches – That is why they are in custom arenas playing auto-balance wars – getting easy rewards

Let them enjoy each others toxic company – I have no interest in improving their experience when they have no interest in actually PvPing

Battlerobot.9461:

My WOW friends tells me RESILIENCE is for PvP… All joking aside, if you use all facets of MY class (THIEF) then message me in game. I do not like to post my ideas, builds or strategies on the forums because I do not want the baddies to see them or even try them cause they will most likely half kitten it and then wah wah wah about how kittenty MY peepees are. They need to learn and see for themselves and to break the mold otherwise they will not realize the full potential of this game.

If you are really interested in what I have to say, and I have a lot to say then message me in game. I prefer to communicate in a one on one environment rather than just post some numbers on a website with little to no explanation or visual proof. In game I can show you how my build kicks kitten . It is a very aggressive in your face play style with I would say 75% defensive mechanics, but my bullets are hollow points and the dagger is flaming hot and sharp.

HANDLED (MFer)
Happiethyme

LOL Why are you RP’ing on the forums

On topic – You do not want to use a stealth heavy build in serious conquest games – if you already did not know you can not capture points while stealthed furthermore you are gimping your damage by not investing in crit strikes or deadly arts

Lordrosicky.5813:

Rym.1469:

Justin ODell.9517:

rainbow.4695:

Is as simple as that….for solo players like myself is very frustrating to go against premade teams , why you ever though that this would be fun or fair…..

I couldn’t find any game data for you in the last week. Do you play on another account?

Another whiner #rekt. GG, WP.

MLG JUSTIN

Not really. maybe the dude doesnt play because the matchmaking is so bad. ever consider that?

Nope.

#rekt #mlg420noscope

What’s a xerg?

What?

Team 1 would win and carry hard

It’s like people forgot about the blowouts and bad players in solo queue – THIS EXISTED

Every match under the old solo q system was not amazing and high quality not to mention the countless 4v5 and sky hammer matches

You need to realize there is a LARGE amount of people participating in “pvp” who actually have no interest in PvP

These are the same players who go on champ trains and karma trains – They are interested in one thing and one thing only EASY REWARDS

It is a necessary evil – let them play with each other in practice mode

Your build is full melee and in WvW against a good Mesmer you probably won’t win especially if they have the staff

My advice to you is if the fight is going bad to simply resset – The GS will out run any Mesmer plus you got the block on the shield

When you see the clones running at you they are going to shatter – If he is using a sword usually you will get immobilized before the shatter and blurred frenzy – that is when you know you should shield block or pop endure pain

A standard shatter build will have one or two stealths – decoy a utility every 40 seconds and the torch can also stealth every 24-30 seconds depending if traited. They usually carry blink which is a 1200 range teleport in any direction + stun break – The STAFF is the major reason melee builds can not deal with Mesmers it has an 8 second teleport which is impossible to stop pretty much even if they are stunned they can use it

GS does less damage than what? Last I checked it does the most damage of all Warrior weapons the issue is obviously in PvP people do not stand still

Mending + Physical Training definitely needs some love and same thing with Shield Master

The rest is where you are getting kinda crazy – Fast Hands no traiting? Deceptive Evasion no traiting? Evasive Arcana no traiting? I do not see this happening ever the other classes will cry way too much

Brawlers Recovery is the only way to get away from Cleansing Ire – especially if you are not using the Longbow and are using two melee sets for example with difficult to land burst skills keep in mind you can augment it with the sigil that removes condis on weapon swap as well or something like shout runes with shouts – I like it where it is and use it in a build with no points in defense/cleansing ire

Simon.3794:

official.7362:

thief is in a state of play that allows survival bunkery classes 15 mistakes to your 1 all while out dmging you and out surviving you and theres nothing you can do about it.

we are currently only useful being carried on teams that run cheese like double ele double engi that allow them to 4v5 while the thief uses mobility on the map

This is high level play im talking of which probobly alot of you will disagree with because they think killing some kittenty engi or ele low level play justifies anything

PS this is cruuk and ive got plently of credibility to back up my clearly blunt forum post

10k+ tourny thief alone with r1 solo and team (in the old system without using decay)

that’s not the problem of thieves only, that’s the problem of all zerkers. but thief still manage to always be in the meta. shows how good thief is.

thief plays a important role in the meta (have always been imo)
basically the only class (other then mesmer and rarely seen necro) that reliably can prevent stab stomping and have insane mobility to best what a zerker supposed to do (1+ in fights) and have a decent control ability also stealth for more tactical backcap plays (sizer played it so good in china lol)

@yolo, it’s not that i don’t understand, its you who don’t understand whats the meaning of meta and even trying to argue that meta is created by normal players lol
the only “meta” that is created by normal yoloq hotjoin player is MM necro, turret engis lol.

You’re in the Thief forum where everyone considers the class broken and useless

It’s almost as if no one watches the PvP tournaments every single week that is full of “useless” thieves – I wonder why they continue to be used

First of all cool vid – nice fights in there against pew pew rangers and condi thieves

I think I prefer the HiddenKiller variant maybe after the buff to Invigorating Precision it would be better but I felt your healing wasn’t that noticeable even with kitten . Reward I barely noticed it – not to mention you did not crit THAT often are you in mostly zerker gear?

Overall cool stuff +1

The thing with CPC is in high level PvP you simply need two stun breakers to avoid getting trained which leaves one utility open and Corrupt Boon is just too good especially since Stab > Fear is really good damage

I think CPC might be a better option for a power necro – it’s not like the condis that CPC provide benefit from condition damage anyway

I never really thought the issue with CPC was the cooldown or effect I simply think it is redundant

My dream version of CPC = Denies ALL healing for X seconds and reflects projectiles

If it was something like that it would be unique and worth bringing into pvp

MM or Condi is perfectly fine for solo open world PvE

MM is vastly different from a Ranger and its pets – As an MM you actually benefit from their deaths and the low cool downs essentially promotes you cycling through them regularly

As a Ranger you want to keep your pet up and it provides plenty of utility for you but as an MM they are mostly just meat shields while you do your thing and DPS the mobs down

Sinister is a solid choice for Condi but MM is usually power but you can build it to be condi as well they do not share your stats which is a good thing so they can be useful in any build

Purple Miku.7032:

Andred.1087:

Purple Miku.7032:

Narkodx.1472:

They don’t care about your solo dungeon runs taking 15 seconds longer

I don’t care about that either.

Now, would you mind not posting unless you actually have anything relevant to contribute to the discussion?

Thanks in advance.

Hostile much?

Yes, he is hostile. He hates me, I remember his name from another thread.

I don’t hate you I think you have good choice in music

Bottom line is you think that somehow PvE balance is considered in this game when it isn’t

Solo dungeon runners and your super optimal rotations min maxing

None of that is considered or ever will be considered

Balance is done with PvP in mind

Accept it

They don’t care about your solo dungeon runs taking 15 seconds longer

Valuk.4689:

Narkodx.1472:

Valuk.4689:

The only classes worth playing are the ones who can sit on a point and hold it. (Guardian, Warrior, Ele, Thief, and Engineer)

Thief sits on points?

You should play more than make your “review”

Thief is better for capping, but I can sit stealth on a point and kill anyone who comes to take it unless there is more than 2 people. I main Thief, so maybe you should play more Thief.

Did you just say you stealth on points?

Before today you have no posts

I will conclude that I have played WAY more than you – the stealth comment alone is enough for me to make this conclusion

Condi Necro gonna use Torment Sigil for sure

Valuk.4689:

The only classes worth playing are the ones who can sit on a point and hold it. (Guardian, Warrior, Ele, Thief, and Engineer)

Thief sits on points?

You should play more than make your “review”

Rickster.8752:

End of story, gg all. If you think you know more than me you are wrong completely.

Why did you even post then?

Close the thread no one is allowed to respond or disagree

Rickster#1 PvP Player Worldwide

Except this guy is not on any pvp teams or any streamed tournaments… woops

Why did you not actually nerf engineers?

These changes will not change much simply a nudge in the right direction

We need a LEAP in the right direction

When are they going to actually make real changes? All of this is so minor it might as well have not have happened

Shadowstarkirby.4072:

Narkodx.1472:

What are you guys talking about!?

If you can not melee the boss that is simply because you do not have experience or are running in sub optimal groups aka pugs who have no clue how to support their teammates

There is no reason to not use D/D against single targets – it is the superior weapon set for those situations

Stop freaking out, dude. I know D/D the best weapon set for organized groups, but I’m running in pugs, which means my groups are anything but that the majority of the time. While the damage is of course lower, it’s more sustained, safer, and applies vulnerability at a fast rate. That isn’t to say I won’t learn to melee these bosses if that’s what most thieves do, which is why I’m asking this at all.

It would be great to actually see a video of a thief playing D/D for the mentioned bosses, but I don’t see any, which is my issue in personally finding the viability of D/D in a lot fractal fights.

I am not “freaking out” lol

You should look harder because there are AMAZING thieves out there I found a video in 5 seconds and he is not the best thief I have seen

If he can solo it in melee range you can melee in groups – not to mention it is level 49

I think one of the main issues is if you do not play this game it is almost impossible to understand anything – Class mechanics

MOBA/FPS games do not have that problem IMO

foste.3098:

Yes people have experimented with other builds, but that does not mean that there are no setups that have become (more) viable over time with updates.

Also apparently you have not experimented with builds much since you confuse Hastened Replenishment with Quick Pockets

Also the trait you say is trash was in a meta build some 17 months ago in spvp where you would use two s/d sets with sigils of energy and weapon swap every 10 sec to the same weapons to gain 3 ini and 50% endurance (this was jumper’s build and this was back when Larcenous Strike stole 2 boons)

Sorry I confused the two horrible Acrobatics traits that no one uses – even the new one is complete trash as well so that is three useless grandmasters!

Yeah it was “meta” 17!!!!! months ago – at that time Sword #2 was instant and had unlimited range making it a “pseudo stun breaker” thus justifying double S/D which no one would do these days especially in this meta where S/D can not jump into a mid fight and escape with no consequences the AoE and condition spam of today is insane – Keep in mind Lyssa runes were a big part of this build which was also nerfed

A lot has changed since then but one thing has not changed and that is the inferiority of acrobatics grand master traits

Trickery is so much better it’s not even close

If it wasn’t for feline grace no one would even use acro

Fistandanthilus.6824:

If we are allowed now to change character before match starts, does this mean MMR per proffesion is turned off?

I am not sure they ever turned that on

There are many pros and cons to this suggestion I do not think limiting multi classers and experienced players is necessarily a good idea but can understand it

Shinigami.2398:

Narkodx.1472:

Shinigami.2398:

Narkodx.1472:

Dual Daggers + 30 Shadow Arts + Venoms in Ranked Arena and claims to do well….

face+palm

your disbelief hurts me :o
…not really, but if you want proof, just fight me
ingame name: Xían

Yea because I am really interested in fighting a full shadow arts thief 1v1
Best part is you actually think that a duel proves that your build is useful and that you aren’t a waste of time in a CONQUEST 5v5 game mode – the key word here is CONQUEST – where stealth is a liability

yeah, i guess dropping everyone on a point in a few seconds through shared damage really is quite the liability… also, the fact that it’s a venom SHARE build should already tell you that it’s not 1v1 focused (and not really stealth focused either), but if you just want to downtalk my build without making an effort to understand it, let’s just end this discussion cuz it’s no fun.

This will be my last post to you

It isn’t “your” build – you think you are the first person to come up with a venom share build!?

Are you even aware of what top players use in PvP? How long have you been playing this game?

It is a KNOWN fact that Stealth and Venom focused builds are terrible – When you are not surrounded by your teammates you are USELESS

Not much more to say really – I am glad you want to be “creative” and think that your build is “special” the reality is we have all tried it before and it sucks when you go up against top level competition

I mean you have NO STUNBREAKERS – that alone makes it a complete joke

Agreed I still mess up the timing on this I am too used to the old way

wot!?

http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

What are you guys talking about!?

If you can not melee the boss that is simply because you do not have experience or are running in sub optimal groups aka pugs who have no clue how to support their teammates

There is no reason to not use D/D against single targets – it is the superior weapon set for those situations