Some fanciful stories here. Damaging player AoE has been capped at 5 since beta; support/healing AoE originally had no cap, and was later capped at 5. Culling had nothing to do with any of this, and was still a problem for over a year after support/healing AoE was capped at 5.
I imagine 1 year from now, we’ll see another thread about how wvw is completely dead or on its deathbed. You’d think that 3+ years after all this doom and gloom started, that it should be true by now…….but am still waiting.
There have been several massive population dips. WvW today is nothing like it was 2-3 years ago; abolishing tiers and linking servers isn’t a sign of vitality, rofl.
I don’t recall skill 4 removing conditions.
Because it never did.
Give them a break, guys. A little patience isn’t much to ask.
lol, you’re either clueless or new
Uh, I guess some of you are unaware that it’s incredibly easy to get 100% uptime on almost all boons for your zerg (quickness may fall off) with a few mesmers and revenants – no boon duration gear required. You can’t even counter a zerg with full boons with boonstrips; you either have to snipe all the mesmers (lol, good luck) or load up on perma boons yourself and hope for the best.
It’s been about a month since I’ve played, so perhaps this method was nerfed, but if not, people aren’t exaggerating when they whine about 100% uptime on resistance, protection, etc.
- No PPK or LOOT for siege damage on players. Siege can still do more damage on players than their character, but they will have to forego their LOOT and PPK if they even think about touching that AC. This encourages players to learn their characters and fight with characters instead of siege, and make hard choices and discourages zerg siege humping encouraging fun fights instead.
Make this happen, please.
No, they’re still kittening awful. I’ve never hated content as much as I hate adventures. I spent an hour in Sanctum Scramble just learning where you can leap, what ledges are actually “slippery” and cause you to fall off, etc. The most enjoyable thing about them is knowing that once (if!) you complete them you never have to do that awful kitten again.
Yes to longer-lasting footfalls, beefed up sound effects, and for making the tiger spirit projectile a bit more corporeal/opaque – there’s a noticeable difference in quality between The Dreamer’s pony projectiles and Chuka and Champawat’s. It’s so close to perfect…
(Also, rescind this stupid suspension of legendaries – make more quality legendaries like C&C.)
SUGGESTION Hitting poisoned targets spread their poison stacks.
Lawd, make it so. I want this bad.
Maguuma queued only one map at a time on Saturday…
150+ in a queue is extreme, but it’s also reset. For nearly 2 years t3 and up had 30-80 deep queues on all maps during reset, and there were plenty of scouts, roamers, and other anti-zerglings then, too.
You can let this fly over your head all you want, but others here are right when they say it’s reset night and it’s the first day of a new system – it’s obviously going to be messy and populated.
I think players forget how EB was always queued first before Alpine borderlands.
I don’t recall this ever being the case. I’ve bounced around between NA tiers 1-3 and it was always the BLs that filled up first. There’s not a server I’ve been on that didn’t designate EBG as the unofficial pug map. Not raiding with a guild? Not playing with TS? You went to EBG.
ANet sure knows how to polish a kitten well! They really added some sparkle and flair to that heaping pile of dung!
edit: really, kitten is censored? c’mon now.
(edited by xev.9476)
There are a few threads discussing the viability of sb in PvE and PvP but how about WvW – either zerging or roaming? I haven’t seen a ranger sb in WvW since the days of spirit roamers, but I’m curious if, with all the new runes, sigils, and stat combos, something new might be viable, be it power, condi, or hybrid. I’m skeptical that sb is anything but garbage, personally, but I’ve been surprised before. I’d fool around with some stuff myself except that I only play WvW – I don’t even have map completion in HoT – so I’m not keen on farming PvE for hours just to experiment; I want to know there’s a payoff.
So if you’ve got a WvW sb build, consider sharing.
The new sword animation on a human is really ridiculous…
And? Have you come to these forums, decided to contribute to the conversation simply by saying “toughen up”? Sir’s probably too polite, but “thanks dad” is the appropriate response if so.
It’s “ma’am” and “thanks grams!”
You’re welcome, sweetie:)
“Wetness” is an essential property of rain, it is not rain if it is not wet. PvP can be (and often is) respectful. Just because it’s widespread behavior in PvP does not suddenly make it acceptable.
My first analogy works, but fine. Another analogy then: gang violence is “endemic” to cities. Do you believe people shouldn’t be disgusted by gang violence? Bullying is endemic to schools, should kids not be upset when they’re bullied? Heated arguments are endemic to relationships, should people not ever be upset by these?
The widespread nature of a thing does not excuse it nor mean people should not be upset by it. Arguably, the more widespread misbehavior is, the more upset we should be by it, just not surprised.
Here’s what I said:
If you play a PvP game, you’re going to encounter “rudeness”, as you put it. It’s endemic to the genre; there’s no escaping it.
See the issue? You’re shifting the scale. I’m talking about PvP games, as in learning to cope with “rudeness” in PvP games is just something you’re going to have to do if you want to stick around because it occurs regularly. Now you seemingly want to talk about specific encounters in PvP games, since you note that some specific PvP encounters can be respectful. Who cares? That’s irrelevant to my point that you’re guaranteed to encounter others who aren’t going to wish you happiness and rainbows and butterflies. Coping with upsetting people is a skill you’re going to have to develop.
This asinine refrain that you shouldn’t have to put up with people disrespecting you (I can’t even type that without laughing) is irrelevant to the fact that you do, actually, have to find a way to cope with it. You want to change the landscape of PvP gaming and lobby for the elimination of disrespectful behavior. Okay, great. That’s not going to help you cope with those mean bullies today, and it isn’t going to help you tomorrow – or anytime soon.
This brings me to my next point:
And an anonymous stranger spawn camping/teabagging you in a virtual world is totes identical to intimate betrayal from someone with whom you share your daily life.
I mean, seriously, gang violence, school bullying, and adultery? I deny that these are even remotely comparable to someone spawn camping, teabagging, or siege shaming you in an online PvP game. If these things are so massively upsetting to you then I sincerely recommend seeking professional help.
The analogous point was that adultery occurs often in marriage, like rudeness does in PvP. Not every person in PvP is rude, not every marriage has incidents of adultery. But PvP is riddled with rude people, and so is “the enterprise” (my wording) of marriage. I wasn’t saying EVERY marriage has adultery, but rather that a lot of marriages do.
Also never said it was identically. Analogies aren’t identical in every way, otherwise they wouldn’t be analogies rofl.
Nice try tho.
If you play a PvP game, you’re going to encounter “rudeness”, as you put it. It’s endemic to the genre; there’s no escaping it. One might as well whine about wet rain. That was my original point, a point that evades your clumsy attempt at a marriage analogy.
Yes and spouses cheating on each other occurs – without fail – across the entire enterprise of Marriage. Stupid women/men should have knew that it was possible and so not been upset by it at all.
Mag logic.
Inb4 I’m accused of being melodramatic for an analogy being more severe than the thing it’s drawing parallels with. Again, that’s standard Mag logic for ya.
You’re so right. It’s clearly the case that adultery occurs – without fail – in every marriage, just as every PvP game – without fail – harbors rage-inducing trolls. And an anonymous stranger spawn camping/teabagging you in a virtual world is totes identical to intimate betrayal from someone with whom you share your daily life.
No denying those parallels! #MagLogic
(edited by xev.9476)
You say it’s just a game, but the ones I see taking it VERY seriously are mostly on your side…
Who’s writing whimpering screeds again?
You have a point you want to express or you simply mistook this forum for “the other one”?
What was unclear? You seem really upset by behavior that occurs – without fail – across the entire PvP genre. It seems odd to accuse the side expressing bafflement at all the whining about commonplace occurrences of taking the situation more seriously. Trolls taking kitten seriously? That’s new.
Also, perhaps trot on over to that “other one” if you think anything over here is similar to what transpires over there. Pretty radical difference, friend.
You say it’s just a game, but the ones I see taking it VERY seriously are mostly on your side…
Who’s writing whimpering screeds again?
The dead body jumping
No, dear. It’s called teabagging.
here’s my prediction, DH is very adaptable by nature….we learn and grow, recently faster than ever as we climbed the Tiers ……Maguuma on the other hand, is a one trick pony, else they wouldn’t have been stuck in t3 for so long……Darkhaven will not only eventually match and beat them, but we will have solid experience in every level of wvw …..from roaming in t5 to dominating t4 …and eventually rulling t1 – it’s in our blood.
Bless your heart…
Lol, ANet should get out of gaming and into comedy.
We don’t know if it is the map OR all the PvE stuff that is in the maps (since they came out together) – barricades, shrines, the Oasis (which was removed). Do some tactical surgery first before we throw out the baby with the bathwater.
People were also asking far a change because the Alpine BL’s were getting stale and old and people were bored with them.
The undue verticality, immensity of keeps, excessive choke points, and convoluted pathing, which all discourage fighting, are significant reasons why the map fails for WvW. These aren’t just issues with PvE elements, but with the very design of the map. (There are literally dozens of threads going into more detail on this.)
Burn DBL to the ground and never bring it back, imo. Pick another landscape (deserts are boring af) and build something new
Sorry XEV – I am not saying an AoE nerf, just prevent the AoE rings from overlapping – it is that simple. I mean stacking 5-10 AoE rings on top of each other is ridiculous.
The DH traps should be situational not an ALWAYS USE.
Sorry blob’s were always an issue in WvW. Was on TC when they were in T1 and the JQ and BG blobs were just that – mindless swarms. No thought, not coordination, no nothing. RvR is supposed to be coordinated, not just massive blobs.
Now, with the HoT update, blobs only want to PPT, no fighting is seen.
You wrote, “If an AoE is down in an area, another AoE cannot be put down on top of or overlapping it.” If that’s actually what you meant, then that is a massive nerf to AoE’s – it renders them useless because the strength of AoEs is that they can overlap. One AoE is unlikely to down anyone; it’s the overlap of many that makes them worth using. If you’re specifically saying that 10+ invisible DH traps in one location is awful and needs to be nerfed/tweaked for WvW, then, yes, absolutely I agree; HoT abilities absolutely need to be balanced in some way for WvW. But, again, if you’re asking for a blanket nerf to ALL AoEs, well then I think you’re clueless.
I think it is specifically trap AoEs, not other ones like Ranger Barrage or Ele firestorm
I ran into a team of 4 trap guards and a mesmer. A stack of 12 traps then the mesmer wells when I was instantly downed.
The stacked traps can also mean a very difficult time for melee fighters trying to get in range of a bow equipped trap guard.*
Exactly Serious. Those and necro wells/marks (since marks and wells can be made unblockable) stacked the guard traps make for a huge amount of condi/physical damage. The DH traps extend far longer than any stabo skills used.
There’s zero reason to nerf necro marks or wells; neither comes close to one-shotting anyone and both are important for coordinated bombs and zerg busting. Stacked invisible traps, yeah, those are ridiculous.
Sorry XEV – I am not saying an AoE nerf, just prevent the AoE rings from overlapping – it is that simple. I mean stacking 5-10 AoE rings on top of each other is ridiculous.
The DH traps should be situational not an ALWAYS USE.
Sorry blob’s were always an issue in WvW. Was on TC when they were in T1 and the JQ and BG blobs were just that – mindless swarms. No thought, not coordination, no nothing. RvR is supposed to be coordinated, not just massive blobs.
Now, with the HoT update, blobs only want to PPT, no fighting is seen.
You wrote, “If an AoE is down in an area, another AoE cannot be put down on top of or overlapping it.” If that’s actually what you meant, then that is a massive nerf to AoE’s – it renders them useless because the strength of AoEs is that they can overlap. One AoE is unlikely to down anyone; it’s the overlap of many that makes them worth using. If you’re specifically saying that 10+ invisible DH traps in one location is awful and needs to be nerfed/tweaked for WvW, then, yes, absolutely I agree; HoT abilities absolutely need to be balanced in some way for WvW. But, again, if you’re asking for a blanket nerf to ALL AoEs, well then I think you’re clueless.
Merely insisting that blobs were always a problem isn’t persuasive. For years you had multiple guilds on every server that prided themselves on zerg busting – you can google videos of this – and people loved it. If you played smart, guilds and other smaller organized groups could decimate larger forces and it was literally something that kept people playing the game. That needs to return.
You’re also mistaken that t1 was filled with mindless, uncoordinated blobs. I was also in T1 and you’re ignoring that the success of any given zerg depended greatly upon the experience of the commander and the degree of coordination on TS. This is why people flocked to a TWL commander (when they were on JQ) and tended to follow certain others only as a last resort (just an example! I’m not saying other commanders on JQ were garbage, just that TWL was especially good). Towards the end (a few months prior to HoT launch) WvW was certainly stale: a lot of skilled guilds/players had moved on and an obnoxious pin-sniping meta reigned, but if we go back to when WvW was lively and populated, then you’re absolutely mistaken that zergs were always a problem – they’re literally what kept people playing the game mode.
Players will not come back until:
2. Blob mechanics (making sure that blobs are max 20 people – from one guild or a mix is less). If 2 or more groups of 20 merge, debuff them.
3. decreasing AoE overlap – this is huge right now especially due to DH traps – I was in WvW with my guild and was trapped by 25 DH traps that overlapped. If an AoE is down in an area, another AoE cannot be put down on top of or overlapping it.
2 is nonsense and 3 would only empty WvW further.
2: WvW needs to cater to RvR fans who favor large, epic battles. Until stability was gutted taking out map queues with a much smaller force was doable provided you were highly organized. The problem now isn’t blob size, it’s that the only counter to the massive amounts of ranged CC is to either bring greater numbers or babysit siege. Post-HoT map blobs are a total kitten show, but who doesn’t fondly remember epic 3-way blob fights(when lag was manageable) over garri or bay when stability was still useful?
3: New abilities like DH traps definitely need to be tweaked and balanced in some way for WvW, but a blanket nerf to all AoE would make them largely unviable. The very strength of AoE is that you can overlap it; barring this, there’s no reason to use them. I suspect the meta (provided people stuck around for such awfulness) would shift to cleaving melee professions or swarms of LB rangers with piercing arrows. No thanks.
RlyOsim — You’re right, of course. But, too, collective desires can change over time, can shift, can be better defined or reprioritized. I think it’s helpful — and thanks for participating — to get a view in the here-and-now.
Presumably it’s far more important to re-entice the players ANet has already chased away, which no doubt is a much larger population than what remains. In that vein I’d say it’s pretty crucial that the devs dig through the 3+ years of carefully ignored feedback. But since the decision-making behind WvW has gotten progressively worse and unhinged, I agree priorities have shifted. Here are my top two:
1) Bring back the Alpine BL: Once upon a time people grew bored of Alpine, little did they know it’s replacement would decimate the game mode. Despite some boredom and fatigue, a sizeable population continued to play in Alpine for 3 years. Forget making BS incremental changes to DBL (you can return to that project after you’ve restored some trust), which will still likely disappoint and alienate already vanishing WvW communities, and bring back Alpine now – we already know it’s engaging and fun to play (sans all the awful HoT additions, chilling fog, etc).
2) Un-nerf stability: The pirate meta blows hard and melee needs to be viable again.
(And, yes, my evident bitterness was necessary.)
I want it back to the way it was. There was nothing wrong bofore, except for the testing done by PvE players, who want more PVE in WvW (like EotM). Hence the buffing of the Keep Lord’s etc. They are now just like EotM.
The problem being, now players hide in keeps behind siege and not fight at all. I mean sieging a T1 tower with 6 Superior or guild arrow carts is just ludicrous.
The game has become ‘Siege Wars’ Not Guild Wars.
This is the complaint about siege that I will never understand. First you are talking about a keep. It shouldn’t be an easy thing to take. As a player and a team, you should never want to lose your keep. I never want to lose anything on our side but that is just the way I play. Its like you’d rather not have siege which would let you take the keep faster.
You claim you want to fight players but you are trying to take their keep. If players are hiding in a keep on siege and not coming out, go hit something else to bring them out. There are ways to bring out players and make the fights come to where you are.. You are not going to force anyone to fight if they do not want to fight. Removing or nerfing the tools used to defend won’t bring you the fights if players do not want to fight. It will only make those players that like to defend not defend anymore which removes a certain type of play style that you do not like to play..
When you get into an objective that has siege it should always be focused first. Most focus the lord first as soon as gate/walls go down. Seen it a zillion times as a few people rush the siege and rest are dying to siege on the lord..
C’mon, either open your eyes and actually read or save us all the eye roll of having to read your silly posts. He wants a rollback prior to HoT, where defended keeps were anything but a gimme. Pre-HoT there were daily hours-long sieges of keeps and garrisons in t1 and t2; it’s only pre-HoT that you could employ tactics like luring out bunkering zergs. No one cares if a zerg map hops to an awful DBL trying to take your objectives now.
Just yesterday my server tried to blob down an EBG keep and promptly got roflstomped by overpowered siege and PvE mechanics. No one bothered the keep for the rest of the night, and instead we spent the remainder of the evening chasing each other between SMC (which we owned) and the enemy’s keep. And this is what happens every effin night: enemy zergs just stare at each other from 1200 range wondering who’s stupid enough to push first, because we all know stab is worthless now, CC is everywhere, and fortified keeps overflowing with OP siege/PvE kitten are an utter waste of time.
Pre-HoT, provided numbers were roughly balanced, there was zero issue defending objectives, despite what delusional weirdos on the forums might have said. It’s an utter kitten show now, and the reason for that is HoT.
Thanks for confirming it’s safe to uninstall, John.
I think the point he’s making is it would have been better if the desert was randomly rotated as one or two of the avaliable borderlands.
I agree. The game would be better if we had non-clone borderlands that rotated out every matchup. preferably with each BL being a different map.
’
Then people would complain about getting the “bad” home BL, but everyone whining about the new BL maps could just go fight over whatever the alpine BL rolled as.It wouldn’t change anything though. The WvW community as a whole has no idea what it wants. They want it to be better, but also stay the same. They want higher pops but they don’t want to merge/eliminate servers. They want more interesting fights but hate more complex maps.
I think Anet is making the right call by not listening to anyone at this point, and just using internal metrics and player population counts to see what players are really doing versus what players say they are doing.
If you view the “WvW community” as some monolithic, univocal whole it’s no mystery as to why you’re so confused. What you list aren’t necessarily contradictions, but expressions of different desires from different types of players, but some of your items are just flat-out misleading. You can hardly whine about players wanting “more interesting fights but hating more complex maps” when the new BL does almost everything possible to discourage fighting via innumerable paths, extreme verticality, obstacles, gimmicks, and death-trap choke points around every corner. None of those make for “more interesting fights”, but very stupid one-sided fights, assuming there’s a fight to be had at all.
Somehow “vanilla” WvW managed to attract and retain players with diverse interests – siege humpers, scouts, fights-only players, strategic players, etc. – but you make it sound foolish to expect developers to deliver a new map that enhances, or at least caters to, what originally drew people to the game mode, which seems like a reasonable expectation to me. What seems stupid, though, is suggesting that a failed, inept map ought to be used in rotation instead of outright removed. Even more nonsensical is suggesting that ANet is doing the right thing designing around confused metrics instead of catering to its player base. They just did that; it emptied WvW.
Is it another sign of end times when the WvW forums are filled with nothing but the same 5 or so spam posters ineptly defending their sacred cow?
So please; it’s not even about the maps, it’s about all the new mechanics. And as you can read in the dozens of threads in this forum and on reddit it’s a mixture of many many small things, things that need to be looked at seperately instead of mixing everything together.
I don’t say that you need to bring back the old maps. Just take the new ones and remove all the failed/broken mechanics, except the ones that are 100% appreciated like sentries and dolyaks, rework them internally, let us play with them piece by piece and slowly build up a great gamemode with our help.
This just ignores the substantial feedback that takes issue with the map itself – a large part of the problem IS the map, not just the mechanics. People have left lengthy criticisms of the map’s verticality, winding paths, and far too numerous choke points for a host of reasons. You can pretend it’s just inept mechanics holding the map back all you want, but I quit weeks ago – as did many others – and there’s zero chance of us logging back in until both the map itself and the mechanics are rethought/redesigned. ANet has a solid record of incompetence when it comes to WvW at this point; it’s going to take a lot more than an acknowledgement of poor design/implementation and a promise to do better.
Team Color Determination
North America
- Green: 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, 19th, 22nd
- Blue: 2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, 20th, 23rd
- Red: 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th, 21st, 24th
Europe
- Green: 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, 19th, 22nd, 25th
- Blue: 2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, 20th, 23rd, 26th
- Red: 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th, 21st, 24th, 27th
Have you ever played in EotM? I’m guessing no. Stacking the winning servers all on one team has to be one of the most mind-boggling and inept decisions in the history of gaming… and you want it to continue?
Even if you liked its appearance you can’t mix and match to create a coherent look with any other armor pieces, and that’s not a matter of personal taste. You may like the look of twigs on top of your trench coat but there is zero continuity/coherency between them. Not even Sylvari cultural armor manages to pull it off; you have smooth lines then, suddenly, twigs.
Inventory management is my new end-game: we now have bags that contain more bags, which all contain 15 DIFFERENT kinds of worthless crap. Great system. Much fun.
And as for easily avoided I am constantly landing this skill with no problems at all.
You’re either exaggerating or lying – the slightest elevation often cancels its damage and you can constantly strafe to avoid it entirely. Obviously it’s still a great skill, but it’s far from broken and it’s certainly not an instant win button. I’m full zerker (meaning I’m squishy) on all my WvW characters and I have yet to get hit with these mythical 12k CoRs; my own usually hit in the 5-8k range. At any rate we’ve been dealing with 8k meteors, 5k per tick lava fonts, out-of-the-blue necro marks and wells and other massive bursts for years; CoR’s damage isn’t any more deserving of a nerf than those other abilities.
Just strafe back and forth a bit – it’ll never hit you.
I’m surprised more people aren’t kittening about this. In game people complain about it all the time, but I’ve barely seen it mentioned on the forums… It’s a major issue.
On the other hand, projectiles for all classes are frequently obstructed by thin air even when you’re firing at something right in front of you. Walls may not be a problem, but empty space annihilates projectiles.
The big heals are limited by range/positioning and delayed with time. That’s too much, and the fragments are also limited by positioning. It’s a great concept and it works well in WvW
Ventari is garbage in WvW for all the reasons you listed for PvP… not that there’s much of a WvW scene left anyway.
Sorry if this has been stated before, but projectiles across all classes are awful right now. The slightest bump often outright obstructs projectiles, and in some cases seemingly nothing at all nets you an obstructed message, like trying to hit the SM lord in EBG. The new Bristleback pet is likewise affected.
5 of us PvD’d fire keep for 20+ minutes during NA prime. No one came to stop us, and all the other BLs were just as empty. It was a genuinely soul-sucking experience.
It’s nauseating to say this, but I now go to EotM if I want fights. The shiny newness of elite specs may keep me around for another week or two, but I don’t anticipate sticking around GW2 if something isn’t done soon.
I realize this thread is titled “Druid Bugs”, but here are 3 pet related bugs.
-When approaching the fire keep from the northern or southern bridges in the new WvW BL my pet instantly catches fire and dies – even when it’s no where near the lava. For the duration that you’re on these bridges your pet is dead; swapping pets just kills your other pet instantly. You can even see it trying to revive itself when you’re out of combat but the pet’s health bar just yo-yos back and forth and ultimately remains dead.
-Upon entering the new BLs and taking the slightest fall damage your pet also instantly dies and will not revive itself unless you swap pets. This is irritating when you have enemies camped right outside your spawn waiting to catch stragglers – you’re already one pet down.
-Bristleback F2 has a solid 4-5 second delay when activating sometimes, and it has nothing to do with ping or lag. This happens in PvE and WvW; I’m often spamming F2 for some pressure damage but nothing happens.
It’s not just you. I always get put in dead maps, too. I have yet to even see how Dragon Stand works because every map I load into is empty.
Megaservers are currently bugged, so your best bet is to wait ;/
Are they still bugged as of now? I thought it was patched a day or two ago.
I was in a group of three when we zoned into AB and each of us found ourselves in a different empty map. It’s still bugged.
I imagine that the Lingering Light nerf was based off both PvE and PvP. The ICD was short enough to almost permanently blind a player or creature, while damaging them and healing yourself.
Any creature worth killing in PvE is immune to blind spam, trash mobs you can afk auto attack to death aren’t, but those mobs posed no threat anyway.