Guild Wars 2

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Currently we can’t give out worthwhile rewards for winning, as most match-ups are already decided before they begin

As a newer WvW player. Attracted to the game mode by these changes. This is one thing I thought was missing. A definite REASON to win. There really isn’t any reason to really push it.

People just want the FIGHTS! Which I very much enjoy. But it would be cool for there to be a real good incentive for a server to WANT to win.

Along with that. I think that a cool down on rewards after a transfer would be needed. That would prevent people from server hopping to the winning side to get said rewards. It would also make people want to stay on their server, invest in its success.

What everyone seems to gloss over when talking about the ‘RNG’ is that is is designed to be super super low.

Everything worth a kitten in this game can be purchased for gold. You can use your real world money, buy gems, turn it into gold. Then buy whatever your heart desires.

This is by design. I am not saying it is right or wrong. It is just the way this game is made. It is specifically designed this way because there is no subscription fee.

I came to Guild Wars 2 because I wanted an MMO with no sub fee. Now, after playing it for the last few month. I realize that it is what I miss the most.

If I could change one thing about GW2. It would be to remove the ability to buy in game currency. Remove absolutely everything that isn’t cosmetic from the gem store. Move all of that stuff to the game. Have it so it could be obtained in game. Make exotic or above soulbound. Drastically reduce cost on ascended weapons and armor(make them soulbound) Precursors and Legendary weapons, soulbound.

Then add a subscription fee. This makes it so you earn things by playing. It would also put the focus on developing content more from the devs.

But I am not in change and I know people would riot. These are just the changes that I think would make the game more fun for ME.

Thaddeus.4891:

LS3 is coming out in July. It was announced in the AMA a couple weeks ago, but it could still be delayed.

I interpreted the comments to mean the earliest it could come out was July. Perhaps as late as September.

Might want to temper yourself a bit. For your own personal sanity.

It used to be….

M – Raid and Fractals
Tues – Fractals, HoT meta
W – Raid and Fractals
Th – Fractals and Whatever strikes me
F – Raid and fractals
Sat – Raid and fractals, Meta events
Sun – Meta events, fractal, whatever

I didn’t have that much of a set schedule. I just did what I found most fun(which usually ended up being raiding)

Now it is….

Log in, make a Deldrimor(Need 18 more for Twilight! Donations shamelessly accepted!)
Logout and do something else.

I downloaded the FFXIV free trial last night. Going to check that out.

AysonCurrax.3254:

BloodyNine.7504:

No one really knows exactly what. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a lot of those things you listed. I also would not be surprised if none of them show up.

Isn’t this supposed to be a balance update as well? Since they are doing those quarterly.

No balance update mid pvp season, atleast thats what they said. Their word isnt really something of much value anymore since recent days.

if they do, however stick with that, and there is a balance patch included in the april update, it could be the 19th at best, since thats the first tuesday after the season ends.

They specifically stated there would be quarterly balance updates.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/profession-balance-goals-for-the-winter-2016-update/

That was the last one in mid January. So there will be one in April. I assume it will happen right after the PvP season ends, which is what they did last time as well. Not sure if they will split the April “content” update we are assuming is coming and the “Balance” update though. So all you Necros out there, get ready, you are going the way of the Burnzerker!

This needs immediate developer attention. Why can people use their big rolling snowball in raids while I cannot use my endless fractal tonic!?

No one really knows exactly what. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a lot of those things you listed. I also would not be surprised if none of them show up.

Isn’t this supposed to be a balance update as well? Since they are doing those quarterly.

I don’t preorder any games. It is a terrible thing. The last game I pre-ordered was Ocarina of Time for N64. Only because if you didn’t you might not have gotten a copy. Supply is no longer an issue. If it is a game I REALLY want. I might get it the day it comes out. Otherwise I wait for a couple weeks or months to see if it is truly worth my money.

What I think they should have done was design the “pact camp” as a lobby/staging area. That way people could gather/muster there to ready for their foray into the Spirit Vale or Salvation Pass. This groups people up together where they could talk about encounters and strategies in game. People could ask questions without having to go to the forum or reddit. Plus it takes the 15-30 people sitting at Shipwreck or outside the raid instance, in each map, out of VB. That way you don’t have those people messing with meta numbers.

Ideally it would have a WP in it that you could access from anywhere. You would not need to be in a squad either.

My biggest problem here is the delivery. I have run a business. I understand sometimes difficult decisions need to be made at times. I also understand many times these are very unpopular.

I also understand you want to keep a commitment to a level of quality. So you do not want to release things without them being up to the level you want. That being said, it feels like a betrayal.

We were sold something, promised something. And you are going back on your word. Something of that gravity should be delivered in a much different manner.

If I had a client or customer that had paid me for something and I was unable to deliver. I would be profusely apologizing, and likely offering a partial refund.

I am not saying I want a refund. I am also not saying that this takes away from what the rest of HoT is. But the bottom line is you are going back on a contract. In exchange for money we were promised a good/service.

You cannot just say “What we gave you already is really good. So it shouldn’t matter that we go back on this other thing”

Well I guess you can. But if I deal with a company like that, I usually don’t return to them the next time.

Make waypoints free. Remove all waypoints except the ones at zone transitions(from one zone to the next).

sophiewhite.3149:

difficulty in general. this game needs tanks. neverwinter fixed their easy mode by making everything in dungeons one shot anything thats not a tank. it required the traditional roles again. which is needed for teamwork.

I know this isn’t the popular position. But I absolutely agree. I like this game. With true tank/healers roles. I would LOVE this game. It would encourage group play, which is the point of an MMO. The reason everything is so easy in this game is the way people seem to want to be able to solo everything. It is really quite odd. I don’t know why anyone would choose this game if their goal is solo play.

I am not sure if it simply the new wing or the fact that people have realized there isn’t much point to it anymore. Once you have defeated the bosses, now what? If you were weekly clearing SV since early on you should have gotten enough Mag shards to get any ascended gear you could want. That is one thing I don’t think Anet got about raids. Raids aren’t just about harder content. They are about LOOT. These boss encounters need to have the liquid gold tripled. They also should be dropping 2 to 3 exotics per person. And the rate of drops for the ascended stuff needs to go up drastically.

I also think a lot less people are doing pug runs. Or at least that is the impression I got. I sat in LFG Monday night around 8pm PST for about an hour and 15 minutes. I got one PM for a sab run that fell apart before it started. And I wasn’t just advertising, I was actively refreshing LFG constantly to try and catch a group looking for members. Nothing.

I have talked to a fair amount of people I know that raid regularly and have all expressed the exact same issues. The people that are running it repeatedly now have set groups. Plus the quality of Pugs seems to have dropped drastically.

This has been mentioned at least 14 million times at this point. They are working on it. It is taking a lot more work than people initially expected. Something is coming. Hopefully soon.

Leezy.4567:

I’m just going to throw it out there, Most groups will only take the meta/optimal classes, since you sound like you will ideally be aiming to PUG yourself into raids, for just an easier time you are going to need to commit to it, when you find a group of friends to raid with that’s when you can start having fun / mixing comp up. Until then expect PUGs to only take what would give them the best chances of success.

I agree that you will run into this. It is unfortunate but true. There are a lot of groups that will hear power engi and say no thank you. Just the way it is at this time.

Leezy.4567:

-those asking how i know hundreds, I am an officer of a no rep, raid LFG guild, we are 99% of the time maxed at 500 people in the guild, and raids and organized all the time in the guild / people picked up.

Want to throw me an invite?

Rising Dusk.2408:

BloodyNine.7504:

*With their budget and current level of development.

Plenty of games do dungeons just fine. Anet just put their priorities elsewhere. That is fine. That doesn’t make dungeons “unsustainable”

Dungeons are unsustainable. The way they are implemented with the dungeon team from pre-launch makes them nigh impossible to support in their current form. The company’s tech has improved substantially, but dungeons are isolated from all of that and would require incredible amounts of effort to bring back up to snuff and maintain. It would require so much effort, in fact, that it would negatively impact schedules for other things that they need to do in order to keep afloat as a company. So yes, dungeons are unsustainable, and ANet has put their priorities elsewhere as a result of that fact.

We are saying the same thing and arguing over one word. For Anet, yes, dungeons are apparently unsustainable. However, if they decided they were scrapping the WvW update and tossed all the development power into dungeons instead would they be? Or if there was room to hire 30 developers and make them a dungeon team?

As I said, they are unsustainable because Anet has decided to not make them a priority. They very well could decide dungeons are the most important thing they want to work on and divert the lion-share of their resources to them. They would no longer be unsustainable.

Dungeons in there very nature are not unsustainable. Anet has chosen to divert resources and structure themselves in a way that they cannot sustain what it would need. You can’t blame the dungeons for it. You blame Anet for deciding it wasn’t worth it. This game, for the most part, is awesome. That tells me there are a lot of really smart, really talented people working on it. If they had the time, will and manpower. I have no doubt they could make dungeons a sustainable, rewarding part of the game.

I appreciate the tips. But knowing how to do the fight is not the issue. Of course we have ore time on VG. But the mechanics are more punishing on an individual level. Like I said on VG you could put an extra person on green circles, that way when someone didn’t make it you didn’t take the massive damage spike. The same person taking 3 or 4 teleports during the fight isn’t going to wipe the raid. Sure they may die, but it if is not the healer or tank you are fine.

To contrast with Sloth. I am watching the same persons run after run after run dropping volatile poison into the group. Sometimes multiple times in a run! I am watching these people getting agro and despite people pleading for them to go forward, they sit there or even worse back up, and keep backing up. These things will all lead to a raid wipe, most of the time. We don’t even get to a point where the slublings are an issue. These are people that have spent hours on this fight now and still can’t seem to recognize these mechanics on their own. If we weren’t calling them, it would never happen.

This would be fine if I was leading a pug. I would kick them out, and replace them. But these are guild runs where we have a more relaxed, casual environment. I am not going to do that to guildies. But what it is doing is really starting to discourage the more skilled players from wanting to come. The people that have had the fight mechanics down 95% for a while now.

TL:DR I feel the VG was more forgiving to personal failures, as it pertained to the group. I do not think the mechanics on sloth are any harder. I agree. But the penalty for failing these mechanics, personally, will much more likely lead to a raid wipe than on VG

Edit @Randomguy: I personally do not think he is harder. I think on a group level it relies more heavily on an overall adherence to the mechanics than VG. I think sloth is fine. I am smashing my face on my keyboard wondering why people can’t figure it out.

LegACy.1296:

BloodyNine.7504:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m not surprised ANet dropped dungeons, honestly. They were an unsustainable system.

*With their budget and current level of development.

Plenty of games do dungeons just fine. Anet just put their priorities elsewhere. That is fine. That doesn’t make dungeons “unsustainable”

How many other games have dungeons AND big open world events with 100 players participating though?
Like, I play Blade and Soul, and they just keep adding dungeons every patch, simply because at level cap all you gonna do every day is just clearing dungeons. GW2 has more diverse end game.

You are correct. Which is why I said they put their priorities elsewhere. That still does not mean that dungeons as a play mode are unsustainable. Yours and my statements are not opposing each other.

In a perfect world they would have the money to hire a full dungeon team on top of their current developer resources. Then we could have both!

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m not surprised ANet dropped dungeons, honestly. They were an unsustainable system.

*With their budget and current level of development.

Plenty of games do dungeons just fine. Anet just put their priorities elsewhere. That is fine. That doesn’t make dungeons “unsustainable”

Rising Dusk.2408:

They never promised three bosses per wing. They only promised three wings and three bosses in the first wing. Anyway, I’m pretty sure they do internally consider the prison event to be a boss-like encounter. They likely even intentionally made Slothasor and Matthias harder than any Spirit Vale boss to compensate for this fact.

They also said that if your group can beat VG, it can beat sloth. My guild group can beat VG and Gorse and isn’t even close on sloth. Despite a lot of work. I have come to within 1% in pugs. But my guild group cannot make it past 50% on sloth.

The reason being, in VG you can screw up and it wont nearly wipe the whole raid. You need a good tank, and a good healer. The rest is pretty up in the air. Put 5 on Greens so you have some cushion and the teleport really only hurts the player that it happened to.

The reason being the random aggro and volatile poison. Despite hours on that boss I still have the same 3 or 4 people in my group that when they get volatile poison the freak out, or don’t realize. Despite us calling their name on TS, they still drop it in the group or in front of it. We also have people who get aggro, and when the boss turns around to face them they back up. Then keep backing up to try and get away.

I know there will be no possible way we will beat Mathias with our guild group. People just cannot get the mechanics down for sloth. Most of these guys have never even killed Sab.

What I am getting at is that I would put Sloth at a much higher level than both VG and Gorse when you consider an individuals need to follow the mechanic. So the statement that was made about guilds being able to beat Sloth if they can down VG is bs.

Back to OP, no they never said 3 bosses per wing. I have heard from some guildies that have done it that it is not difficult. But the achieve would be.

Astralporing.1957:

Most of what Ohoni is asking for should indeed be easy to implement. I do see a few things that might require more work, though (gorse updrafts mechanic that serves as a sort of secondary encounter timer, for example).

The should implies that you do not know for sure. You are guessing. It very well could be drastically more work than you realize. What if it would take the entire raid team 6 months to do what you ask? Would it still be worth it? No.

This is just like the LFG issue. Everyone blindly and igorantly stated how “easy” it would but to implement some “quick fix”. These are people that don’t have a clue as to what they are talking about. The developers come out and tell us, no, this is not easy. We will have to change how LFG works at its core to accomplish what you want and redirect a lot more resources than everyone assumed.

If it was a quick easy fix I imagine they would have done it already. Of course they want their content accessible to everyone. Though you also have to consider that merely turning down all the numbers will have an effect of how the encounters feel as well. It could break them, it could make them feel poorly done and rushed. This would show a bad image. And things like that are just as important.

So I would imagine that being able to do what people ask, while maintaining a product they are willing to release is MUCH harder than everyone is assuming.

It would be nice to hear something from a dev though. “Hey, ya we are looking into what it would take” Or “This is WAY more work than everyone assumes and there is no way we can do it in the foreseeable future.”

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, because 6-8 hours of fails is way too much, it should be more like 15-30 minutes, assuming you have a basic idea of what you’re meant to be doing when you go in.

If it took that short then the content would have nearly zero replay value. Which in a game that needs people logging in daily is a very bad idea. I know that I personally would have moved onto another game at this point if that were the case.

TheSwede.9512:

Direct Damage DPS run Berserker with Assassin Earrings

Or, if you cannot get them because no one runs dungeons anymore and you came to the game too late! You can do an assassin weapon. Though some classes you will need more. On my DH I run assassin weapon, 3 pieces of assassin armor and a sigil of accuracy. The rest is zerker. That puts me at crit cap.

Ohoni.6057:

I have three thousand hours in at the moment, which is less than some, but more than ten minutes, at least. Now it’s true that only about 6-8 of those hours have been spent in the new raids, but that’s enough for me to realize, based on tens of thousands of hours of prior gaming experience, that for me, the current raids are not the sort of thing that I would ever enjoy in their current form, but that there are elements about them that I would really enjoy if they were slightly different, which is why I suggested that they offer a version that is slightly different.

This is a ludicrous statement. You spend 0.002% of your total playtime in some content. Determine that it isn’t exactly how you like it and then state that it must be changed to suit you?

I don’t like WvW as it currently stands. However, I have some thoughts on how they could change it in a manner that would very much suit ME. But I am not complaining about that, because I realize that the world does not revolve around me.

On another note. I have run a good amount of people through the raid for their first time. I have found the AVERAGE player needs ~6-8 hours of experience on a boss to really get it down. Some seem to need 10-12 hours. So you went in there and gave it the absolute minimum effort. Now we need to change it to suit you?

I can honestly say that if GW2 had not come out with raids when they did. I wouldn’t be playing this game anymore. I would have moved on to something else. I was getting bored and raids came out at just the right time for me. I also think it is the best content they have produced in a long time. Sure it has its issues. But I love it. It really is all I do in the game anymore.

Our guild runs teaching runs as well. Everyone is welcome. We will even buy them the right exotic gear. Interest has been remarkably low. We did get a couple people VG kills who thought they would never be able to.

Thought I am sure these are not the type of people that are complaining the raid is too hard. They just do not have the interest.

For me an easy mode with identical mechanics, only less punishing, would just be a learning crutch. You could get the fight down in easy mode and then move onto hard mode. Which defeats the entire point of the content right there.

I have no problem with a “Story” mode. Where there are no mechanics. You just go in and fight the bosses. They wander around and hit you, you hit them. They die and you can progress the story. Not difficult, no green circles or teleports on VG. No eggs or world eater or smashes on Gorse. No bombs or cannons on Sabetha.

Otherwise you are just giving people a training mode. Part of the fun and challenge is having to learn the mechanics while doing the fight in “difficult” mode. Taking that away trivializes all of it.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I play about 3 hours every night and every weekend for a ridiculously longer amount of time. Well, unless we’re doing family stuff or I’m traveling, of course.

Edit to add: Yes, I need to get this account up to snuff on HoT and masteries, I admit it!

Could it be that mastery points are stuck behind adventures and ill timed meta events?!

Don’t you have a cheat code or something? /dm unlock all

They have said both here and on Reddit that they are trying to get it going. If I remember correctly. The problem is the way LFG works now it would require an entire rework of the whole system to implement. It isn’t a quick change and they would have to put a fair amount of developer resources towards this one issue.

Gunsnroll.2657:

You can’t buy badges.

You are correct, I was thinking of the proof of heroics for the precursor crafting.

Tornupto.2304:

They didn’t remove the WvW part. A Legendary still requires Badges of Honor or Memorys of Battle.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Badge_of_Honor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Memory_of_Battle

Yes, but you can buy those on the TP. It would be comparable if you could buy dungeon tokens on the TP as well.

I think a raid “story mode” would be fine. You can go in solo or with 5 people. The bosses are easily done solo; no real mechanics, timers, or large health pools. There are no rewards, maybe a little xp. You can’t do achieves. You are just able to do the story, look at soldier badges, journal entries.

No harm in that really. That way people that don’t want to or can’t put in the time to learn the encounters could still at least experience the story.

Coulter.2315:

If by “versitilty of builds and group” you mean “will I need to understand the encounter and build appropriately, maybe even using traits and skills I haven’t before,” then the answer is yes.

This sums it up nicely.

I mean, I just want to play the game how I want. I want to only ever use my 5 skill. And I only want to use one specialization, not three. That is just how I want to play. How dare they make content that doesn’t let me play how I want.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Randulf.7614:

The living story pretty much revolves around the dragons. The open story of what happened with the mursaat is more in keeping with the living world, which the raids are a part of. It does make sense to have the raids used as a side story.

What are you talking about? A side story? The White Mantle played a big role in my personal story. They’ve been a big part of the primary narrative ever since this game launched back in 2012. They killed my parents. They tried to kill me. They’re my character’s motivation to pick up the sword (well, staff) and go out to better the world.

And now that the side story of putting down some rubbish dragons is finished, they’re putting the continuation of what matters most, my character’s personal story in a raid? What the hell man!

But it isn’t the story of THIS game. Unless they are heading there. This game has taken a different path. They have chosen to use raids to tie up some loose ends perhaps.

Though I would agree if they use the raid story to introduce LW3, that is a pretty bs move without implementing a story mode.

How did you get the item?

Did you purchase it in error? I would open a ticket. See if you can get it swapped out.

Was it a drop from fractals? If it is infused, salvage it. If it is not, sell it to a vendor and take a couple silver

Wait, are you asking for more swear word minis?

Renkku.7451:

It could still be that the Anet is just teasing us. Maybe this is just an opening for the story that will begin in living story 3 or 4.

I don’t think so. I think the GW2 story and the dragons is separate in a lot of ways from the open ends left from GW1. I think they wanted to give the raid a good story, while at the same time closing up some loose ends from GW1. The are killing two birds with one stone. I imagine without this story being told in the raid, it never would have been told. Which would you prefer?

I just sincerely doubt they are using the raid to further the main GW2 story, though I could be wrong. That could explain the timing of LW3 coming after the third wing.

I imagine that the green skull icon visibility and notification will be one of the first things changed. In our group we have one person dedicated to calling it out. By name.

Though the more you do the fight the easier it will be to see. I have no problem with it now after a couple hours in there.

We had a couple first time Gorse kill people have the same thing. It appears to be a bug. Because it should unlock for you. Post in the bug forum and put a ticket up in game.

This is something people actually care about? Really? I have been hearing about DnT since Molten Core in WoW. I mean how does them testing something in anyway alter your gaming experience? Even if they come out with a warehouse full of salt and a giant banner that says “Mission Accomplished.” What does it really matter?

Jahroots.6791:

It’s nothing more than another gold sink and time gate, really. Adds little to the experience for players but the devs like to toss these in because of the economy and reasons.

Exactly this. This game is FULL of mechanics to make you log in every day. Rather than use the content to drive interest(don’t get me wrong, I like the game, play everyday). But there are things that don’t make any sense to me. These are things that are just made to keep you interested over a longer period of time.

I am currently working on crafting twilight. Legendary journey! Sweet. lets do this. First tier was a bunch of events for the collection. Cool, what’s next? Crafting, I need 30 deldrimor and 10 leather. But I can only make one a day. So what can I do to work on my LEGENDARY JOURNEY!?!?!?! I log in, hit a couple buttons to craft my deldrimor and then didly kitten. Artificial time increasing mechanic. They need me coming back every day!

That is why you need AR. So they could introduce something that will keep you logging in over a longer period of time.

Can we get a mod to sticky a giant post at the top of this forum that states dungeons are dead and gone. Please stop posting about how to fix them. There is literally NO ONE at the company working on them anymore. I would even say rename the forum to Fractals and Raids!

Just do the meta. I was trying to get a the one I needed for Ydalir a while back. I probably opened 30-40 pods running around non progressing DS maps. Nothing. One meta and I got it. You might get lucky and get one. But you might not!

harold.3526:

I would kick people who use the insights link thing in the last 1% health of the boss.

While I agree lying about it is a crappy thing to do. If you got the boss to 1%, then who cares? You win.

Also, I was in a Sabetha pug the other day and we had someone that was DCing a bunch. Finally we decided to kick them after they didn’t come back online. So we kicked mid fight. Sabetha de-spawned on us. Not sure if it would be a repeatable bug. But as a general rule now I won’t kick someone except between pulls.

I tried it 4 or 5 times on my own. Getting some random glitch or issue that prevented me from finishing it. In the end I got it done with some guildmates. I have only done it once and I have ZERO desire to do it ever again with how often it glitched out for me.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cost from start to finish for the entire set will be comparable to that of weapons. Expect the set to cost around 2500 gold.

Do you have that from an official source? Just curious. My assumption is that it would be more considering it is a whole set of armor rather than one weapon. Not 6 times more expensive. But I could see twice as expensive.

Gunsnroll.2657:

randomguy.1283:

It’s because people are panicking, tell them to stop, and continue the fight as they otherwise would.

This.

It’s usually what goes wrong when karde is alive and Sabetha comes back, people forget to do cannon, run everywhere and die.

Yup.

- Bring your healer in if they are flaking. We usually swap one of our Tempests out.
- Full protection, bring a guardian. Or other source, hammer guardian works well because of the periodic aegis as well and good damage. You could also have them swap to mace and hit 2 every little while for some extra regen. But I am not sure if that would be as beneficial as just staying on hammer.
- Ignore the falling ceiling pieces. If you try and dodge them all, your dps will drop too much. Just do the fight as if those ceiling pieces aren’t there. Keep doing canons. Obviously, if you can move out of the way do it. I also notice people spread out a TON in that phase when they panic. Which means there is no safe spot to drop a time bomb and you will almost always down one or two with it.
- Focus hard on Karde. Though I think if people stop panicking the Karde DPS will go up on its own. Once he is down you should be fine.

eldrin.6471:

Envoy Armor I is ascended not legendary and will be a component in crafting legendry

I am amazed at how many people I run into that think that when this first collection is done they will open up a chest with a full legendary armor set. Not even close. I would expect 3 or 4 levels to this collection. I would also assume it will dwarf the other legendary collections in regards to what is required. Considering it is a full set of armor, not just one piece.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

There are also those super casual guilds, like mine, that grew up on dire, stealth and carry from others.

I tried, really tried with my guild, got them builds, explained the fight over and over. Then on VG everyone runs around like a chicken. TS doesn’t help, explaining stuff again doesn’t help, everything check doesn’t help.

For people like my guildies, raids are not “hard gated”, it’s more like an impenetrable wall.

I think a lot of people seem to forget that not everyone learns at the same rate. For some they may only have to do VG a couple times and get a good grasp on the fight. For others, they might need 10-12 HOURS of time on a fight to get it down.

I actually track player time on bosses within our guild runs. That way we can identify who is actually having a hard time vs someone who just hasn’t done it much.

The bottom line is if you are one of those people that is going to take 10+ hours to learn the fight. You need to really really be self motivated to get there. Most of those people seem not to be. You also need people patient enough to help you there as well.